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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK 23:28 - Nov 10 with 1133000 viewspikeypaul



And like a typical anti democracy remoaner he decided the will of the people should be ignored the minute the democratic result was in total fecking hypocrite 😂😂😂😂😂😂

Despite it being voted in to law by the commons the spineless two faced remoaner MPs have totally abandoned any morals and decided to ignore the will of the British people.

It will be remembered and no election or referendum will ever be the same again in this country.

The one thing that will come is a massive surge in the popularity of UKIP or a similar party in the future who stand for the 52%.

Happy Days.

[Post edited 29 Mar 4:37]

🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:30 - Jul 18 with 734 viewsbluey_the_blue

The Guardian view appears to be that if BoJo were determined to persue no Deal, Parliament may not be able to stop it.

"What does the government defeat on the anti-prorogation plan actually mean?
Votes in the House of Commons can have legislative consequences and political consequences, and sometimes it is not entirely obvious what either of them will be. This afternoon’s vote relating to a no-deal Brexit is important, but probably not decisive. Here are some thought on what it means.

1) Boris Johnson has suffered his first Commons defeat - before even becoming prime minister. Jeremy Hunt, his rival for the Tory leadership, has ruled out proroguing parliament to facilitate a no-deal Brexit, but Johnson pointedly hasn’t. Over the last two days peers and MPs have voted to tie his hands on this point. Coming after the resignation of Sir Kim Darroch as ambassador to Washington in response to comments from Johnson, this is fresh evidence that the Westminster machine already regards him as PM.

2) This vote probably means proroguing parliament in the autumn to stop MPs blocking a no-deal Brexit is now closed as an option for Johnson. The Benn amendment says, if parliament were prorogued or adjourned in this timescale, it would have to be recalled. But a tiny window of uncertainty remains because a) if the power-sharing executive in Northern Ireland were to revive, the Benn amendment would become redundant; and b) there is always the feint chance of a rogue PM trying to ignore this law.

3) Stopping parliament being prorogued is not the same as stopping a no-deal Brexit. It remains the case that, if Johnson were to opt for a no-deal Brexit, MPs sitting in the Commons in September or October would have no obvious means of stopping him. An Institute for Government report said, under the rules as they are now, it would be “almost impossible” for MPs to stop no-deal without using a no confidence vote to bring down the government. Even if Johnson did lose a no confidence, there is no guarantee he would pause Brexit to allow the electorate to have its say. But the IfG report also says the situation might be different if the Speaker were to be more “flexible” in his interpretation of Commons procedure, and John Bercow has repeatedly hinted that he would be willing to bend the rules to help MPs vote against no-deal (as he did here, referring to standing order 24).

4) But Tory opposition to no-deal is looking a bit more robust this afternoon than it was. As I mentioned this morning, in recent weeks MPs trying to use parliamentary process to block no-deal have suffered a series of defeats. (See 9.09am.) Today they won a handsome victory. Some 17 Conservative MPs voted against the government, and five ministers seem to have abstained deliberately; by this time next week those five will probably be on the backbenchers, making a “Gauke-ward squad” of 20-plus. If Johnson sacks more ministers in a reshuffle, that could get even bigger. Most of these MPs would probably not vote against the government on no confidence motion to stop a no-deal Brexit, but with the government’s working majority set to fall to just three after the Brecon and Radnorshire byelection, the rebels probably have enough muscle to bring him down.

5) An early election looks ever more likely. Johnson would want to avoid an early election until he has delivered Brexit, but these numbers mean that he might not be left with any choice."
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:37 - Jul 18 with 725 viewsmonmouth

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:17 - Jul 18 by Highjack

Open question to the floor: if there were a second referendum and leave won again where would we go from there?


It would be much more specific and based on real options rather than Unicorns:

1 Current Deal (remain)
2 May's Deal (perhaps with some agreed sweeteners from EU, or changes because Johnson will happily abandon red lines, or anything, if he thinks it might keep him as prime minister)
3 No Deal

This time the three would have to be compared and debated properly.

Why are brexiters so scared of a vote on reality rather than fantasy?

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:39 - Jul 18 with 717 viewsbluey_the_blue

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:37 - Jul 18 by monmouth

It would be much more specific and based on real options rather than Unicorns:

1 Current Deal (remain)
2 May's Deal (perhaps with some agreed sweeteners from EU, or changes because Johnson will happily abandon red lines, or anything, if he thinks it might keep him as prime minister)
3 No Deal

This time the three would have to be compared and debated properly.

Why are brexiters so scared of a vote on reality rather than fantasy?


I don't think you can go that way unless you do some sort of alternate vote system.

Remain has one option. Leave has two or more. Would split leave vote.giving an easy Remain win.
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:45 - Jul 18 with 709 viewswaynekerr55

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:37 - Jul 18 by monmouth

It would be much more specific and based on real options rather than Unicorns:

1 Current Deal (remain)
2 May's Deal (perhaps with some agreed sweeteners from EU, or changes because Johnson will happily abandon red lines, or anything, if he thinks it might keep him as prime minister)
3 No Deal

This time the three would have to be compared and debated properly.

Why are brexiters so scared of a vote on reality rather than fantasy?


Sensible. Call me a bit Icke but don't you find it convenient that the initial referendum was advisory, thus allowing the illegality that was proven by the electoral commission to be bypassed?

How many of you know what DP stands for?
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:49 - Jul 18 with 703 viewsbluey_the_blue

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:45 - Jul 18 by waynekerr55

Sensible. Call me a bit Icke but don't you find it convenient that the initial referendum was advisory, thus allowing the illegality that was proven by the electoral commission to be bypassed?


You're a shite antisemitic former BBC sports presenter who used to play in goal for Coventry.

Probably is, then again leaflets were explicit that the decision would be implemented.

I just get the feeling that even if a new referendum returned a "ffs just leave, prefer a deal but if not hey ho" result, MPs would still want to block that.
[Post edited 18 Jul 15:50]
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:55 - Jul 18 with 695 viewsmonmouth

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:39 - Jul 18 by bluey_the_blue

I don't think you can go that way unless you do some sort of alternate vote system.

Remain has one option. Leave has two or more. Would split leave vote.giving an easy Remain win.


Current deal vs no deal then, with proper explanation of each, and make every MP including Johnson and Gove put their real money where their mouth is and take the consequences of their arguments. My bet is Johnson and Gove ('after serious and heartfelt consideration') and everyone except a small fringe on both sides (and you and the other PS resident leavers, obviously) would back the current deal. If not, so be it Whichever way it went everyone would have to suck it up.

I find it sad myself that we supposedly live in a parliamentary democracy, and the parliament does not have the courage to make its own decisions on this, on the basis that is why it exists. Not to be popular or populist or to represent small groups based on geographical accident (or we'd still have birching and hanging...plus drawing and quartering probably), but, as a body, to make informed decisions balancing all the factors.

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:57 - Jul 18 with 689 viewssherpajacob

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:49 - Jul 18 by bluey_the_blue

You're a shite antisemitic former BBC sports presenter who used to play in goal for Coventry.

Probably is, then again leaflets were explicit that the decision would be implemented.

I just get the feeling that even if a new referendum returned a "ffs just leave, prefer a deal but if not hey ho" result, MPs would still want to block that.
[Post edited 18 Jul 15:50]


Vote leave leaflets were explicit we would leave with a,deal, negotiated before A50 would be 'invoked.

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 16:46 - Jul 18 with 663 viewsbluey_the_blue

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:57 - Jul 18 by sherpajacob

Vote leave leaflets were explicit we would leave with a,deal, negotiated before A50 would be 'invoked.


Which makes MPs voting to invoked Article 50 even more silly.
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 17:09 - Jul 18 with 637 viewsexiledclaseboy

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 16:46 - Jul 18 by bluey_the_blue

Which makes MPs voting to invoked Article 50 even more silly.


They didn’t. They voted to give the government the power to invoke article 50. It was the government which unilaterally decided to do so without any idea as to what to do next. You argued against giving parliament the right to do even that now here you are.

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 17:11 - Jul 18 with 627 viewsbluey_the_blue

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 17:09 - Jul 18 by exiledclaseboy

They didn’t. They voted to give the government the power to invoke article 50. It was the government which unilaterally decided to do so without any idea as to what to do next. You argued against giving parliament the right to do even that now here you are.


It was pretty clear it was going to be invoked right away. MPs voted for that. If they'd insisted on safeguards at that time, I'd have had more respect for them.

BBC programme tonight seems interesting.
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 17:12 - Jul 18 with 626 viewsmonmouth

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 17:09 - Jul 18 by exiledclaseboy

They didn’t. They voted to give the government the power to invoke article 50. It was the government which unilaterally decided to do so without any idea as to what to do next. You argued against giving parliament the right to do even that now here you are.


I'm seeing what you mean now. Don't consume him just yet.

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 17:26 - Jul 18 with 603 viewsHighjack

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:37 - Jul 18 by monmouth

It would be much more specific and based on real options rather than Unicorns:

1 Current Deal (remain)
2 May's Deal (perhaps with some agreed sweeteners from EU, or changes because Johnson will happily abandon red lines, or anything, if he thinks it might keep him as prime minister)
3 No Deal

This time the three would have to be compared and debated properly.

Why are brexiters so scared of a vote on reality rather than fantasy?


My question was based on the hypothetical outcome that the debate had happened and leave won again.

Would there be any renewed focus to get brexit done or would we be in the same position with remainers stamping and wailing, having a tantrum all over the place demanding a third referendum? Would we still have a majority remain parliament and a biased speaker doing everything they can to stop it?

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 18:27 - Jul 18 with 560 viewsexiledclaseboy

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 17:11 - Jul 18 by bluey_the_blue

It was pretty clear it was going to be invoked right away. MPs voted for that. If they'd insisted on safeguards at that time, I'd have had more respect for them.

BBC programme tonight seems interesting.


MPs voted to empower the government to invoke A50. No date involved. And remember you didn’t want them to be able to do that. You were all for letting the government have the power alone.

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 18:31 - Jul 18 with 552 viewslonglostjack

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:39 - Jul 18 by bluey_the_blue

I don't think you can go that way unless you do some sort of alternate vote system.

Remain has one option. Leave has two or more. Would split leave vote.giving an easy Remain win.


May’s deal has been rejected by Parliament on three occasions. The question should be binary.
I wish to remain in the EU
I wish to leave the EU with or without a deal.
Tick the box.
Nothing to be frightened of eh Bluey?

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 18:32 - Jul 18 with 548 viewsbluey_the_blue

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 18:31 - Jul 18 by longlostjack

May’s deal has been rejected by Parliament on three occasions. The question should be binary.
I wish to remain in the EU
I wish to leave the EU with or without a deal.
Tick the box.
Nothing to be frightened of eh Bluey?


I'd not be too upset with that tbh if it's a binary choice.
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 18:34 - Jul 18 with 545 viewsbluey_the_blue

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 18:27 - Jul 18 by exiledclaseboy

MPs voted to empower the government to invoke A50. No date involved. And remember you didn’t want them to be able to do that. You were all for letting the government have the power alone.


I was all for the government having that power alone.

They didn't.

MPs voted to empower the government to invoke A50 knowing full well it was going to be invoked ASAP. Those wringing their hands now knew that at the time, could well have voted for amendments bringing far tighter control over it. They chose not to.
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 18:56 - Jul 18 with 516 viewsHighjack

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 18:31 - Jul 18 by longlostjack

May’s deal has been rejected by Parliament on three occasions. The question should be binary.
I wish to remain in the EU
I wish to leave the EU with or without a deal.
Tick the box.
Nothing to be frightened of eh Bluey?


That’s what the question was the first time...

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 19:19 - Jul 18 with 500 viewslonglostjack

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 18:56 - Jul 18 by Highjack

That’s what the question was the first time...


Nope.

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 19:20 - Jul 18 with 498 viewsexiledclaseboy

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 18:34 - Jul 18 by bluey_the_blue

I was all for the government having that power alone.

They didn't.

MPs voted to empower the government to invoke A50 knowing full well it was going to be invoked ASAP. Those wringing their hands now knew that at the time, could well have voted for amendments bringing far tighter control over it. They chose not to.


You’re making things up as you go along. Much like your fellow Brexit types. Exactly why we’re in this mess.
[Post edited 18 Jul 19:22]

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 19:20 - Jul 18 with 497 viewsexiledclaseboy

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 18:56 - Jul 18 by Highjack

That’s what the question was the first time...


No it wasn’t. Nothing like it.

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 19:25 - Jul 18 with 491 viewsHighjack

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 19:19 - Jul 18 by longlostjack

Nope.


It absolutely is.

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 19:30 - Jul 18 with 476 viewsexiledclaseboy

“Taking back control is a careful change, not a sudden step - we will negotiate the terms of a new deal before we start any legal process to leave.”

From a leaflet published and distributed by the official Vote Leave campaign. So not even those campaigning to leave campaigned to do so without a deal. Unless they lied of course and I’m repeatedly assured that wasn’t the case.

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 19:34 - Jul 18 with 469 viewsexiledclaseboy

The official Vote Leave website is a panoply of lies, distortions, delusion and stupidity. Even worse now with hindsight. They really did deliberately and systematically lie their way to victory.

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 19:36 - Jul 18 with 464 viewsexiledclaseboy

I see failed Tory leadership candidate Jeremy Hunt “forgot” to vote on the amendment today.

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 19:38 - Jul 18 with 459 viewsexiledclaseboy

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 19:34 - Jul 18 by exiledclaseboy

The official Vote Leave website is a panoply of lies, distortions, delusion and stupidity. Even worse now with hindsight. They really did deliberately and systematically lie their way to victory.


That £350m figure that no one seems to recognise is still front and centre as well.

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