Please log in or register. Registered visitors get fewer ads.
Forum index | Previous Thread | Next thread
Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK 23:28 - Nov 10 with 1042513 viewspikeypaul



And like a typical anti democracy remoaner he decided the will of the people should be ignored the minute the democratic result was in total fecking hypocrite ๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚

Despite it being voted in to law by the commons the spineless two faced remoaner MPs have totally abandoned any morals and decided to ignore the will of the British people.

It will be remembered and no election or referendum will ever be the same again in this country.

The one thing that will come is a massive surge in the popularity of UKIP or a similar party in the future who stand for the 52%.

Happy Days.

[Post edited 29 Mar 4:37]

๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง
Poll: Where wil Judas be sitting when we play Millwall?

0
Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:31 - Aug 28 with 525 viewslondonlisa2001

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 13:55 - Aug 28 by chad

Here we go from the Grauniad

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/05/chief-economist-of-bank-of-engl


โ€”โ€”โ€”โ€”โ€”โ€”โ€”โ€”โ€”โ€”โ€”โ€”โ€”โ€”โ€”โ€”โ€”โ€”-

There is also this Politico article but this is not what I was referring to

https://www.politico.eu/article/mark-carney-eats-humble-pie-on-brexit/amp/?__twi


This is also interesting if accurate, from the new Green MEP Magid Magid about how clueless and ineffectual he seems to find the European Parliament

https://www.politico.eu/article/magid-magid-whats-disappointed-me-in-my-first-tw


None of the articles contains an apology about brexit forecasts though.

The Guardian article contains an apology about forecasting around the financial crash (under the pro Brexit Mervyn King).

The Politico article contains a segment about the BofE saying there would also be adverse impacts in the EU.

The third article has nothing to do with the point you repeatedly make.
0
Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:33 - Aug 28 with 522 viewslondonlisa2001

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 10:40 - Aug 28 by Jango

Renainers have been using every trick in the book to stop the government, Bercow being a fine example and I remember you lot laughing about it on here. Now the leave side are using something available to them remainers are having a meltdown. Comical.


Bercow hasnโ€™t acted unconstitutionally on any occasion.

Johnson is.

Thereโ€™s quite a difference.
1
Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:34 - Aug 28 with 518 viewslondonlisa2001

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 13:07 - Aug 28 by bluey_the_blue

Yet if Remainers were able to do the same to achieve staying in EU, it would be perfectly fine, naturally.

Hardball tactics have at least seen EU willing to listen to anything, previously the attitude was "May's WA or nothing". It may even be the case this action helps a deal be made; after all, no incentive for EU to do anything as long as MPs want to kill no deal.


Nope. I wouldnโ€™t be ok about remainers mounting a coup to revoke article 50.

The EU have done nothing different under Johnson than they did under May.
0
Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:35 - Aug 28 with 516 viewsbluey_the_blue

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:33 - Aug 28 by londonlisa2001

Bercow hasnโ€™t acted unconstitutionally on any occasion.

Johnson is.

Thereโ€™s quite a difference.


Unconstitutionally by invoking a constitutional right the PM has?

BoJo has played a blinder. Get a deal or get a GE. GE happens, well, gets to blame obstinate MPs for preventing Brexit. Gets an inevitable majority and game on.
0
Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:36 - Aug 28 with 512 viewsBytholWyn

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:22 - Aug 28 by bluey_the_blue

So leave whilst still in single market and customs union.

Yeah, that's not really leaving.

No freedom of movement but no way to negotiate own trade deals.

The WA agreed by May and EU was a stitch up, always was, always will be.

There's more chance of a deal with the current approach than with Mays. A GE would be an election Labour really don't want.


You're entitled to whatever opinion you have regarding what constitutes a Brexit that meets your aspirations. What you can't argue is that May's deal, let alone a no deal Brexit, was argued for back in 2016. It shouldn't surprise anyone that those of a hard right persuasion struggle with such basic concepts as integrity, consistency and honesty.
0
Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:40 - Aug 28 with 504 viewslondonlisa2001

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:35 - Aug 28 by bluey_the_blue

Unconstitutionally by invoking a constitutional right the PM has?

BoJo has played a blinder. Get a deal or get a GE. GE happens, well, gets to blame obstinate MPs for preventing Brexit. Gets an inevitable majority and game on.


You donโ€™t believe it unconstitutional to shut down parliament for 5 weeks? In the name of democracy?

Itโ€™s a shocking abuse of power. And one that wonโ€™t be forgotten.

If Johnson did win a large majority, it allows him to ignore ERG and have a much softer Brexit doesnโ€™t it? What makes you think thatโ€™s not the plan?
2
Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:42 - Aug 28 with 502 viewsbluey_the_blue

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:36 - Aug 28 by BytholWyn

You're entitled to whatever opinion you have regarding what constitutes a Brexit that meets your aspirations. What you can't argue is that May's deal, let alone a no deal Brexit, was argued for back in 2016. It shouldn't surprise anyone that those of a hard right persuasion struggle with such basic concepts as integrity, consistency and honesty.


So what you're saying is that the referendum should've included ever single potential deal outcome for the Leave side and a single option for Remain, correct?

Yeah, I think we all see the problem with that.

If still in single market and customs union, how can you seriously claim we have left EU institutions? Please try. single market? Yeah, freedom of movement is required. Customs union? Cannot negotiate own trade deals.

It's Hotel California, can checkout but never leave...
1
Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:42 - Aug 28 with 502 viewsHumpty

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 13:55 - Aug 28 by chad

Here we go from the Grauniad

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/05/chief-economist-of-bank-of-engl


โ€”โ€”โ€”โ€”โ€”โ€”โ€”โ€”โ€”โ€”โ€”โ€”โ€”โ€”โ€”โ€”โ€”โ€”-

There is also this Politico article but this is not what I was referring to

https://www.politico.eu/article/mark-carney-eats-humble-pie-on-brexit/amp/?__twi


This is also interesting if accurate, from the new Green MEP Magid Magid about how clueless and ineffectual he seems to find the European Parliament

https://www.politico.eu/article/magid-magid-whats-disappointed-me-in-my-first-tw


Nowhere in the Guardian article does anyone apologize or say sorry for anything.

We've already done the Politico one. No apology there.

The third is irrelevant.
1
Login to get fewer ads

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:45 - Aug 28 with 492 viewsHumpty

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:42 - Aug 28 by Humpty

Nowhere in the Guardian article does anyone apologize or say sorry for anything.

We've already done the Politico one. No apology there.

The third is irrelevant.


Sorry Lis. Just seen that you've already answered it.
1
Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:46 - Aug 28 with 492 viewsbluey_the_blue

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:42 - Aug 28 by Humpty

Nowhere in the Guardian article does anyone apologize or say sorry for anything.

We've already done the Politico one. No apology there.

The third is irrelevant.


The third is irrelevant to the point made but very relevant to the difference between perception and reality of EU. When someone pro-EU gets to the inner sanctums and gets disgusted by what they see...
0
Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:50 - Aug 28 with 488 viewsHumpty

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:46 - Aug 28 by bluey_the_blue

The third is irrelevant to the point made but very relevant to the difference between perception and reality of EU. When someone pro-EU gets to the inner sanctums and gets disgusted by what they see...


Possibly, but completely irrelevant to what I'm discussing with Chad i.e. Carney and/or the BoE apologizing for their Brexit forecasts.
1
Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:04 - Aug 28 with 457 viewsmonmouth

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:40 - Aug 28 by londonlisa2001

You donโ€™t believe it unconstitutional to shut down parliament for 5 weeks? In the name of democracy?

Itโ€™s a shocking abuse of power. And one that wonโ€™t be forgotten.

If Johnson did win a large majority, it allows him to ignore ERG and have a much softer Brexit doesnโ€™t it? What makes you think thatโ€™s not the plan?


I actually think that is the plan, or just sign up to May's deal. He can solve the backstop by staying in the customs union and will negotiate paid entry int the single market. Kiss the red lines goodbye. He is simply using no deal to get elected. He won't give a shit for the ERG as soon as he has a majority to ignore them and RAAAAAAAAB and his ilk will be out quick smart.

Then again who knows. He is a loose cannon only interested in himself, so he might do anything. I don't think we'll be having no-deal though.

Poll: TRUST MEMBERS: What DID you vote in the, um, vote

1
Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:18 - Aug 28 with 431 viewsFlashberryjack

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 13:22 - Aug 28 by Morfa_Same

Sign the petition everyone. 166000 signatures already in the space of a few hours.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/269157


What good is signing a petition going to do, 3 years ago 17 million voted to leave the EU, and we're still in it.
1
Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:25 - Aug 28 with 417 viewsBytholWyn

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:42 - Aug 28 by bluey_the_blue

So what you're saying is that the referendum should've included ever single potential deal outcome for the Leave side and a single option for Remain, correct?

Yeah, I think we all see the problem with that.

If still in single market and customs union, how can you seriously claim we have left EU institutions? Please try. single market? Yeah, freedom of movement is required. Customs union? Cannot negotiate own trade deals.

It's Hotel California, can checkout but never leave...


The referendum should have outlined a clear proposal for what would be involved in leaving, absolutely. That's exactly what we had in the three Welsh Assembly referendums - a clear set of responsibilities to be delegated to the Assembly and those that were not.

To argue that a no deal Brexit has any sort of legitimacy on the back of an argument to leave the single market (which is a reasonable summation of the Leave argument during the 2016 campaign) shows that you're not interested in democratic principles at all. Even now you could probably have a Brexit based on leaving the single Market - but anything else has no legitimacy - and you know it.
0

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:44 - Aug 28 with 389 viewsHighjack

Will this actually change anything? They can just amend the queens speech to force an extension on the day they return can they not?

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Poll: The official planetswans European election poll. Your vote goes to?

0
Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:45 - Aug 28 with 386 viewsbluey_the_blue

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:25 - Aug 28 by BytholWyn

The referendum should have outlined a clear proposal for what would be involved in leaving, absolutely. That's exactly what we had in the three Welsh Assembly referendums - a clear set of responsibilities to be delegated to the Assembly and those that were not.

To argue that a no deal Brexit has any sort of legitimacy on the back of an argument to leave the single market (which is a reasonable summation of the Leave argument during the 2016 campaign) shows that you're not interested in democratic principles at all. Even now you could probably have a Brexit based on leaving the single Market - but anything else has no legitimacy - and you know it.


Remind me what has legitimacy.

May's WA deal rightly imo rejected by Parliament.
So what exactly do Parliament want in terms of leaving? Please do tell because so far there's no majority for any fvcking thing...

I suggest that's deliberate ploy on the part of some MPs who want to Remain but know, in their constituencies, it would be political suicide to push for Remain. Just don't agree on anything and hope people get bored and just Remain.

People just want the whole damn thing over... the default was always WTO rules. Vote for whatever deal is presented or leave under WTO rules, just get the process over and get on with things.
0
Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:50 - Aug 28 with 375 viewsbluey_the_blue

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:40 - Aug 28 by londonlisa2001

You donโ€™t believe it unconstitutional to shut down parliament for 5 weeks? In the name of democracy?

Itโ€™s a shocking abuse of power. And one that wonโ€™t be forgotten.

If Johnson did win a large majority, it allows him to ignore ERG and have a much softer Brexit doesnโ€™t it? What makes you think thatโ€™s not the plan?


Party conference recess. In practise, 4-5 days are lost. As has been stated, there's time for Remainers to get legislation debated and passed; I'm sure Bercow will allow that. MPs could abuse SO24s to do that, an abuse of one but one that's acceptable to some.

Who knows what the plan is other than leave? If it's a softer Brexit then there will be much reoicing and unity of the nation, surely?
0

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:51 - Aug 28 with 368 viewsbluey_the_blue

John Major threatening legal action.

That'll be fun since he prorogued Parliament for a longer period to quash cash for questions debates.
-1

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:59 - Aug 28 with 355 viewsDdraigGoch

This is how it should have worked:

Dear MP

Confused about your position?

Let me help.

Check your constituency votes in the 2016 EU Referendum according to the very FPTP system that got you your parliamentary seat.

Now just vote with your electorate.

You are welcome.

P.S The default was to leave on WTO terms
0

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 16:03 - Aug 28 with 348 viewsBytholWyn

As stated in that Guardian article by Tom Kibasi the most likely outcome of all this is a General Election. Given that the opposition vote is divided Boris is clearly expecting an outright majority by clearing out the Brexit vote. It could well work for sure, but thanks to Nigel (I never thought I'd make that statement) the Tories (or what remains of the Conservative party) would have to campaign explicitly for a hard Brexit to be confident of sweeping up the Brexit Party/UKIP vote. Would he have the balls to go for such a position? Very risky indeed.

As for the opposition, what is needed is a willingness to put the interests of UK citizens before those of their party for a limited period of time. It's a huge ask, especially of the SNP and Plaid Cymru, but the best chance of defeating the hard right no deal Brexit rump Tories would be for all remain supporting parties to campaign under one platform - as a "Remain" party, with one policy - to Remain in the EU. I would envisage that any currently elected MP would not be challenged by any other remain supporting party, as long as they sign up to a remain manifesto. This is the most principled and realistic way of defeating the rump Tory party.

The biggest stumbling block is Corbyn, his acolytes and the minority of Labour MPs in Leave constituencies. But these extraordinary times call for extraordinary actions. One thing's for clear the next election is going to be a Brexit referendum by proxy. Normal issues will be peripheral, despite what happened last time.
0
Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 16:06 - Aug 28 with 342 viewssherpajacob

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:59 - Aug 28 by DdraigGoch

This is how it should have worked:

Dear MP

Confused about your position?

Let me help.

Check your constituency votes in the 2016 EU Referendum according to the very FPTP system that got you your parliamentary seat.

Now just vote with your electorate.

You are welcome.

P.S The default was to leave on WTO terms


Burke!

Poll: Your favourite ever Swans shirt sponsor?

0
Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 16:11 - Aug 28 with 328 viewsBytholWyn

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:45 - Aug 28 by bluey_the_blue

Remind me what has legitimacy.

May's WA deal rightly imo rejected by Parliament.
So what exactly do Parliament want in terms of leaving? Please do tell because so far there's no majority for any fvcking thing...

I suggest that's deliberate ploy on the part of some MPs who want to Remain but know, in their constituencies, it would be political suicide to push for Remain. Just don't agree on anything and hope people get bored and just Remain.

People just want the whole damn thing over... the default was always WTO rules. Vote for whatever deal is presented or leave under WTO rules, just get the process over and get on with things.


Parliament has never been presented with a Brexit that would have aligned closely with what was argued for back in 2016 - namely to leave the Single Market but remain in the Customs Union. The reason that option hasn't been put forward is very simple - the Tories want to make sure Brexit has their stamp on it - rather than something that would closely resemble something that Labour argued for. A Brexit that genuinely reflected the proposition back in 2016 would have come about ages ago - the decision to create a Trojan horse no deal Brexit rests with the hard right of the Conservative party alone.

A Brexit that involved leaving the Single Market, even in these embittered times, would probably achieve Loser's consent. A no deal Brexit - no chance.
3
Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 16:14 - Aug 28 with 322 viewsbluey_the_blue

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 16:03 - Aug 28 by BytholWyn

As stated in that Guardian article by Tom Kibasi the most likely outcome of all this is a General Election. Given that the opposition vote is divided Boris is clearly expecting an outright majority by clearing out the Brexit vote. It could well work for sure, but thanks to Nigel (I never thought I'd make that statement) the Tories (or what remains of the Conservative party) would have to campaign explicitly for a hard Brexit to be confident of sweeping up the Brexit Party/UKIP vote. Would he have the balls to go for such a position? Very risky indeed.

As for the opposition, what is needed is a willingness to put the interests of UK citizens before those of their party for a limited period of time. It's a huge ask, especially of the SNP and Plaid Cymru, but the best chance of defeating the hard right no deal Brexit rump Tories would be for all remain supporting parties to campaign under one platform - as a "Remain" party, with one policy - to Remain in the EU. I would envisage that any currently elected MP would not be challenged by any other remain supporting party, as long as they sign up to a remain manifesto. This is the most principled and realistic way of defeating the rump Tory party.

The biggest stumbling block is Corbyn, his acolytes and the minority of Labour MPs in Leave constituencies. But these extraordinary times call for extraordinary actions. One thing's for clear the next election is going to be a Brexit referendum by proxy. Normal issues will be peripheral, despite what happened last time.


Tories and Brexit party would agree to a non aggression pact, Brexit Party providing supply and demand a la DUP.

It's silly to refer to "no deal" Tories. People want a deal, would love a deal. People are generally fvcking realistic that if a deal can't be arranged where there's a clear default, the default is what you use.

A single "Remain" party? You're talking how many egos to arrange? There's literally zero change Lib Dems, SNP, Labour et al would ever align as a single party...
0
Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 16:18 - Aug 28 with 315 viewsDdraigGoch

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 16:06 - Aug 28 by sherpajacob

Burke!


Burke? As in Sir Edmund?

Ok some relevant quotes from him which you are probably referring to...

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
To read without reflecting is like eating without digesting.
Nobody made a greater mistake than he who did nothing because he could do only a little.
We must all obey the great law of change. It is the most powerful law of nature.
The greater the power, the more dangerous the abuse.
0
Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 16:26 - Aug 28 with 289 viewslondonlisa2001

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:51 - Aug 28 by bluey_the_blue

John Major threatening legal action.

That'll be fun since he prorogued Parliament for a longer period to quash cash for questions debates.


No. He didnโ€™t.

He dissolved Parliament 19 days before it was necessary to do so prior to a general election. The cash for questions debate was then held after that general election.

The suspension of parliament to attempt to force through an irreversible policy that does not have parliamentary support is unprecedented in modern times.

Itโ€™s deeply undemocratic, undermines the very sovereignty that Brexit supporters have been bleating on about and whether in the short or longer term, will bite Johnson and the Conservative party in its backside. For a generation.
2
About Us Contact Us Terms & Conditions Privacy Cookies Advertising
© FansNetwork 2019