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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK 23:28 - Nov 10 with 1112246 viewspikeypaul



And like a typical anti democracy remoaner he decided the will of the people should be ignored the minute the democratic result was in total fecking hypocrite 😂😂😂😂😂😂

Despite it being voted in to law by the commons the spineless two faced remoaner MPs have totally abandoned any morals and decided to ignore the will of the British people.

It will be remembered and no election or referendum will ever be the same again in this country.

The one thing that will come is a massive surge in the popularity of UKIP or a similar party in the future who stand for the 52%.

Happy Days.

[Post edited 29 Mar 4:37]

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 17:31 - Sep 24 with 635 viewsHighjack

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 17:28 - Sep 24 by bluey_the_blue

So they can't speculate on what such reasons might have been but speculated it must therefore be illegal...


Is there any difference between unlawful and illegal in real terms?

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 17:35 - Sep 24 with 637 viewsbluey_the_blue

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 17:31 - Sep 24 by Highjack

Is there any difference between unlawful and illegal in real terms?


One is a sick bird and I can't think of a bad pun for the other?
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 17:48 - Sep 24 with 619 viewslondonlisa2001

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 17:19 - Sep 24 by wobbly

Agreed, but that wasn’t really my point. My point was based on para 61:

61 It is impossible for us to conclude, on the evidence which has been put before us, that there was any reason - let alone a good reason - to advise Her Majesty to prorogue Parliament for five weeks, from 9th or 12th September until 14th October. We cannot speculate, in the absence of further evidence, upon what such reasons might have been. It follows that the decision was unlawful.

That last sentence builds on the sentences preceding. Lawyers will have generations to pick this apart but to me this has the potential to opens up massive implications on motive in future judicial review of constitutional matters. Extraordinary. We will be debating this judgment for many, many years,


But para 58 states:

“Of course, the Government must be accorded a great deal of latitude in making decisions of this nature. We are not concerned with the Prime Minister’s motive in doing what he did. We are concerned with whether there was a reason for him to do it. It will be apparent from the documents quoted earlier that no reason was given for closing down Parliament for five weeks. Everything was focussed on the need for a new Queen’s Speech and the reasons for holding that in the week beginning the 14th October rather than the previous week. But why did that need a prorogation of five weeks?”

59 and 60 go on to discuss the ‘normal’ length for. Queen’s Speech and the point that the Da Costa memo states it was only for the Queen’s Speech that prorogation happened.

Para 60 also draws attention to the constitutional responsibility of the PM and distinguishes between that and him being ‘simply the leader of the Government seeking to promote its own policies’.

They do not appear to be questioning motive per se, but rather stating that the motive given is at odds to the action taken and therefore the action cannot be justified.

They seem to me, to be saying - you’ve a choice. If you want to lie to the public (and possibly the Queen) about your reasons for doing something, fine. But if your actions are not consistent with that lie, don’t expect the courts to protect you from parliament, who are your masters.
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 17:59 - Sep 24 with 591 viewslondonlisa2001

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 17:31 - Sep 24 by Highjack

Is there any difference between unlawful and illegal in real terms?


As I recall, illegal refers to being in contravention of legislation whereas unlawful refers to being in contravention of the constitution or common law. But that may be an incorrect recollection.
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 19:09 - Sep 24 with 517 viewsexiledclaseboy

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:49 - Sep 24 by londonlisa2001

Corbyn is allowed a go first, then if he can’t, anyone else can have a go within that 14 days I think (ECB will correct me I’m sure). There are rumours that he’s coming round to the idea...


Anyone can have a go at forming a government that can command a majority. Corbyn is the natural first go as leader of the official opposition and the second largest party in the Commons. But it doesn’t have to be him first. I very much doubt you’ll get a series of confidence votes until they hit upon one that works. The Queen will have to be advised on who to appoint first and that won’t happen until they work something out.

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 19:11 - Sep 24 with 512 viewsexiledclaseboy

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 13:17 - Sep 24 by sherpajacob

It seems to me the killer point was the failure of anyone in government willing to sign a witness statement regarding the reasons for prorogation.

Boris now saying he still disagrees with the unanimous judgment.


They had the witness statements all drafted. The relevant people refused to sign them on account, I assume, of not wanting to perjure themselves. When that happened the only argument the government could use was to try and persuade the court that prorogation was none of the court’s business. Obviously that argument failed miserably.

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 19:14 - Sep 24 with 503 viewsDarran

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 19:17 - Sep 24 with 497 viewsJoe_bradshaw

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 19:14 - Sep 24 by Darran

Page 666. Boris gets shunted and I’m on my way home from seeing William Blake. 😮


Was it good?

We're planning to go.

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 19:51 - Sep 24 with 463 viewsHighjack

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 17:59 - Sep 24 by londonlisa2001

As I recall, illegal refers to being in contravention of legislation whereas unlawful refers to being in contravention of the constitution or common law. But that may be an incorrect recollection.


Yeah I knew there must have been a difference. The ruling only mentions the word “unlawful”. I guess if you accidentally kill someone (Not that I have) it sometimes comes under unlawful killing rather than murder. Just curious what the difference is.

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 20:08 - Sep 24 with 449 viewslondonlisa2001

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 19:51 - Sep 24 by Highjack

Yeah I knew there must have been a difference. The ruling only mentions the word “unlawful”. I guess if you accidentally kill someone (Not that I have) it sometimes comes under unlawful killing rather than murder. Just curious what the difference is.


Unlawful is ‘higher’ than illegal I guess, given legislation is far more changeable than the constitution or common law. Frequently things are both unlawful and illegal of course.
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 20:10 - Sep 24 with 444 viewsexiledclaseboy

“Unlawful killing” is, I think, a coroner’s court verdict in an inquest as opposed to a legal one. In a criminal court someone who kills unlawfully but it isn’t murder is guilty of manslaughter.

Maybe. Sirjohn will know.

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 20:14 - Sep 24 with 435 viewsWarwickHunt

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 19:14 - Sep 24 by Darran

Page 666. Boris gets shunted and I’m on my way home from seeing William Blake. 😮


I bet the selfie was a bit shit.
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 20:15 - Sep 24 with 428 viewsHumpty

Anyway, has anyone been round to check how Kerouac is doing?

I think someone should.
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 20:16 - Sep 24 with 428 viewsUxbridge

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 17:59 - Sep 24 by londonlisa2001

As I recall, illegal refers to being in contravention of legislation whereas unlawful refers to being in contravention of the constitution or common law. But that may be an incorrect recollection.


Google tells me that "Illegal means that it is forbidden by a law that has been passed. Unlawful means that it is not authorised by law because no such law has been passed". So, as you said

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 20:22 - Sep 24 with 420 viewsLeonWasGod

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:49 - Sep 24 by londonlisa2001

Corbyn is allowed a go first, then if he can’t, anyone else can have a go within that 14 days I think (ECB will correct me I’m sure). There are rumours that he’s coming round to the idea...


Ok thanks. Hopefully he hasn’t got Diane Abbott working out the numbers for a majority 😂
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 20:25 - Sep 24 with 412 viewsLohengrin

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 19:14 - Sep 24 by Darran

Page 666. Boris gets shunted and I’m on my way home from seeing William Blake. 😮


I’m going up to the Tate in November.

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 20:42 - Sep 24 with 386 viewsLohengrin

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 20:14 - Sep 24 by WarwickHunt

I bet the selfie was a bit shit.


Oh! I don’t know, Joss seemed happy enough, old Bill looks delighted.


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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 20:48 - Sep 24 with 382 viewsGowerjack


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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 21:13 - Sep 24 with 368 viewsHumpty

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 20:48 - Sep 24 by Gowerjack



Heh!
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 21:17 - Sep 24 with 361 viewsWarwickHunt

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 20:25 - Sep 24 by Lohengrin

I’m going up to the Tate in November.


Morpeth Arms is a cracking Young’s pub nearby with lots of MI6 ephemera (especially in the upstairs dining room). Good pub food.
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 21:31 - Sep 24 with 340 viewslondonlisa2001

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 21:13 - Sep 24 by Humpty

Heh!


To be fair, Farage is genuinely funny on his LBC show. The bit that always makes me laugh is him playing a clip of a ‘remainer’ politician and him commenting over the top of it like a 1980s DJ trying to stop us all taping the top 10.
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 21:31 - Sep 24 with 338 viewslondonlisa2001

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 21:17 - Sep 24 by WarwickHunt

Morpeth Arms is a cracking Young’s pub nearby with lots of MI6 ephemera (especially in the upstairs dining room). Good pub food.


Great pub.
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 21:35 - Sep 24 with 322 viewsLohengrin

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 21:31 - Sep 24 by londonlisa2001

Great pub.


I’m sure I’ve been there if it’s the one I’m thinking of. A big, imposing corner pub?

An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it.

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 21:36 - Sep 24 with 318 viewsHumpty

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 21:31 - Sep 24 by londonlisa2001

To be fair, Farage is genuinely funny on his LBC show. The bit that always makes me laugh is him playing a clip of a ‘remainer’ politician and him commenting over the top of it like a 1980s DJ trying to stop us all taping the top 10.


I do try sometimes but I can rarely put up with more than ten minutes.
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 21:41 - Sep 24 with 301 viewslondonlisa2001

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 21:35 - Sep 24 by Lohengrin

I’m sure I’ve been there if it’s the one I’m thinking of. A big, imposing corner pub?


Yeah - on the next corner after Vauxhall Bridge.
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