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The Countdown begins. 23:28 - Nov 10 with 133623 viewspikeypaul



https://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20190329T23&p0=1336&msg=Democr

1:19 pm today was the exact mid point from when the result that the Great British public had decided to leave the EU and the time 11pm March 29th 2019 that Democracy will be delivered.

Happy days.
[Post edited 25 Jun 17:01]

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The Countdown begins. on 19:30 - Jun 22 with 533 viewspeenemunde

The Countdown begins. on 19:28 - Jun 22 by LeonWasGod

Sorry, I don’t mean to be rude, but have you been paying attention to any of this?

Yes, Airbus have a final assembly site in China. Yes, they’re going to increase the size of it, apparently. And yes it has nothing/little to do woth Brexit (you brought it up). But they’re not moving from the UK to China, as they don't assemble planes in the UK. We’re a bit lower down the production line. We make components, from small to large (the wings being the largest example). Those wings go to Tolouse, in a fellow EU country, where we have frictionless trade.

All EU countries are members of the WTO, but we don’t trade solely under WTO rules. We have free trade agreements within the EU bloc. This is what the whole ‘no deal’ argument is about. So for industries with a large supply chain of components, such as aerospace or automotive, these components can be made in one country, shiped to another to be added to, and shipped to another to be incorporated in the final product, without taxes and complex customs checks at each step. And workers essential to the whole process can be moved around the supply chain as needed.

If we leave the EU without a trade agreement we’ll automatically revert to WTO-only rules. This would involve tarrifs. Not only that, Airbus requires certification that products meet a certain standard. The UK would be out of that system, which would result in delays and losses, as the explain in the 2 page statement they released today.

The only country that trades solely under WTO rules is Mauritania, apparently! Pretty much all countries are part of free trade blocs. We wouldn’t be and would have to start from scratch, and the impact of this on a company like Airbus is very clearly stated in their statement (although we would get there eventually - we’d have to).

I’ve no idea where you get your information from, but it doesn’t make sense. Airbus are obviously lobbying for a Brexit deal that’s of least harm to them, but this isn’t about them ignoring the will of the people or trying to stop Brexit. It’s not a conspiracy. This is about their very real fears that a no deal will harm their business. That’s all they care about. And if it does they’d be out of here. They’d have to be, unless their losses were covered in subsidies.

If there’s a counter argument for how wonderful life would be for a company like Airbus after Brexit, don’t you think they’d jump on it and exploit it?


What about Airbus illegal subsidies from the Eu ?
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The Countdown begins. on 19:46 - Jun 22 with 512 viewsKilkennyjack

The Countdown begins. on 19:28 - Jun 22 by LeonWasGod

Sorry, I don’t mean to be rude, but have you been paying attention to any of this?

Yes, Airbus have a final assembly site in China. Yes, they’re going to increase the size of it, apparently. And yes it has nothing/little to do woth Brexit (you brought it up). But they’re not moving from the UK to China, as they don't assemble planes in the UK. We’re a bit lower down the production line. We make components, from small to large (the wings being the largest example). Those wings go to Tolouse, in a fellow EU country, where we have frictionless trade.

All EU countries are members of the WTO, but we don’t trade solely under WTO rules. We have free trade agreements within the EU bloc. This is what the whole ‘no deal’ argument is about. So for industries with a large supply chain of components, such as aerospace or automotive, these components can be made in one country, shiped to another to be added to, and shipped to another to be incorporated in the final product, without taxes and complex customs checks at each step. And workers essential to the whole process can be moved around the supply chain as needed.

If we leave the EU without a trade agreement we’ll automatically revert to WTO-only rules. This would involve tarrifs. Not only that, Airbus requires certification that products meet a certain standard. The UK would be out of that system, which would result in delays and losses, as the explain in the 2 page statement they released today.

The only country that trades solely under WTO rules is Mauritania, apparently! Pretty much all countries are part of free trade blocs. We wouldn’t be and would have to start from scratch, and the impact of this on a company like Airbus is very clearly stated in their statement (although we would get there eventually - we’d have to).

I’ve no idea where you get your information from, but it doesn’t make sense. Airbus are obviously lobbying for a Brexit deal that’s of least harm to them, but this isn’t about them ignoring the will of the people or trying to stop Brexit. It’s not a conspiracy. This is about their very real fears that a no deal will harm their business. That’s all they care about. And if it does they’d be out of here. They’d have to be, unless their losses were covered in subsidies.

If there’s a counter argument for how wonderful life would be for a company like Airbus after Brexit, don’t you think they’d jump on it and exploit it?


Best post of the thread. Fair play.

‘Beware of the risen people’ ........🍀🇮🇪 💚 YesCymru 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿

-1
The Countdown begins. on 19:55 - Jun 22 with 495 viewsBatterseajack

The Countdown begins. on 19:30 - Jun 22 by peenemunde

What about Airbus illegal subsidies from the Eu ?


So what about it?
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The Countdown begins. on 20:06 - Jun 22 with 491 viewspeenemunde

The Countdown begins. on 19:55 - Jun 22 by Batterseajack

So what about it?


It’s illegal
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The Countdown begins. on 20:17 - Jun 22 with 476 viewsBatterseajack

The Countdown begins. on 20:06 - Jun 22 by peenemunde

It’s illegal


Has it been proved to be? And if it was, does that make the UK workforce dispensable?
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The Countdown begins. on 20:22 - Jun 22 with 480 viewsLeonWasGod

The Countdown begins. on 19:30 - Jun 22 by peenemunde

What about Airbus illegal subsidies from the Eu ?


I’ll come back to you on that, as I’ve got to put the kids to bed. Raises some interesting points about the EU and businesses though.
-1

The Countdown begins. on 20:44 - Jun 22 with 471 viewspikeypaul

I would fecking love a no deal and it will come about by the remoaners not allowing us to negotiate a good deal.
The irony of it all will crack me up.

40 weeks AFLI

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The Countdown begins. on 20:49 - Jun 22 with 467 viewsJango

The Countdown begins. on 20:17 - Jun 22 by Batterseajack

Has it been proved to be? And if it was, does that make the UK workforce dispensable?


So let’s stay in the EU so that Airbus can continue its dodgy business with them as long as they don’t threaten to cut jobs.
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The Countdown begins. on 20:54 - Jun 22 with 462 viewspeenemunde

The Countdown begins. on 20:17 - Jun 22 by Batterseajack

Has it been proved to be? And if it was, does that make the UK workforce dispensable?


According to the WTO it has been proven.
Airbus is breaking the law and let’s be honest if the U.K. government continued to pay theses subsidies, Airbus wouldn’t be making these threats.

It would be sad day for this country if a multi national company dictated government policy to suit is own selfish and criminal business practices.
[Post edited 22 Jun 20:59]
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The Countdown begins. on 21:04 - Jun 22 with 452 viewsLeonWasGod

The Countdown begins. on 19:30 - Jun 22 by peenemunde

What about Airbus illegal subsidies from the Eu ?


Right, this looks like a State Aid problem, pulled up by the WTO. I know nothing about this claim/case (but do get involved with State Aid issues linked to support from Universities to companies ), so googled it and came up with a bbc report - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44120525.

As I said, I don't know the case, but initial thoughts are as follows:

- €billions is MASSIVE. State Aid rules allow for a few hundreds of thousands of € of government financial support over a rolling 3 year period (either hard cash in subsidies, or soft cash in tax breaks, etc). So the EU were clearly supporting Airbus when they developed their new airliner models to a HUGE degree, well above the normal. And in breach of their own State Aid rules.

- State Aid rules are aimed at protecting businesses from other businesses that have received 'unfair' government support. In this case, Airbus' main competitor is Boeing, in the States. They don't have an EU competitor.

- The EU have acknowledged that 'illegal' support ocurred before 2011, and have explained they are putting things right.

Conclusions? Don't know .

You could spin this one of two ways. Either:

1) The EU were illegally subsidising companies, so are effectively two-faced by supporting some, but not allowing others to be supported under State Aid rules (e.g. I'm thinking her of Tata in Port Talbot, who we were told couldn't get additional government support because of State Aid. Although note this is the UK government telling them - my experience is that we are sticklers for overly harshly interpreting EU laws. Compare, for example, to what the French let their farmers get away with).

Or

2) The EU was looking after the interests of a major European company that employs thousands of people, keeps thousands more in jobs through their supply chain and pays billions in taxes. So pure protectionism; something Trump get's praised for by his supporters of his America First approach. But they got caught out (presumably because somebody (Boeing) wasn't happy.

The EU is a protectionist club. It's all about giving a hand up to it's members on the global stage. Because Airbus have no direct EU rival, I think I come down on the side of thinking this is ok as we're looking after our own. We're talking about trying to make our companies successful over the Americans. Is it illegal under WTO regs - sounds like it! Is it morally correct? I don't know, it's murky. But then international trade always will be. I'm 100% sure there will be protectionist elements in whatever post-Brexit looks like.

They're my views anyway, but I'm no expert.
-1
The Countdown begins. on 21:12 - Jun 22 with 446 viewspeenemunde

The Countdown begins. on 21:04 - Jun 22 by LeonWasGod

Right, this looks like a State Aid problem, pulled up by the WTO. I know nothing about this claim/case (but do get involved with State Aid issues linked to support from Universities to companies ), so googled it and came up with a bbc report - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44120525.

As I said, I don't know the case, but initial thoughts are as follows:

- €billions is MASSIVE. State Aid rules allow for a few hundreds of thousands of € of government financial support over a rolling 3 year period (either hard cash in subsidies, or soft cash in tax breaks, etc). So the EU were clearly supporting Airbus when they developed their new airliner models to a HUGE degree, well above the normal. And in breach of their own State Aid rules.

- State Aid rules are aimed at protecting businesses from other businesses that have received 'unfair' government support. In this case, Airbus' main competitor is Boeing, in the States. They don't have an EU competitor.

- The EU have acknowledged that 'illegal' support ocurred before 2011, and have explained they are putting things right.

Conclusions? Don't know .

You could spin this one of two ways. Either:

1) The EU were illegally subsidising companies, so are effectively two-faced by supporting some, but not allowing others to be supported under State Aid rules (e.g. I'm thinking her of Tata in Port Talbot, who we were told couldn't get additional government support because of State Aid. Although note this is the UK government telling them - my experience is that we are sticklers for overly harshly interpreting EU laws. Compare, for example, to what the French let their farmers get away with).

Or

2) The EU was looking after the interests of a major European company that employs thousands of people, keeps thousands more in jobs through their supply chain and pays billions in taxes. So pure protectionism; something Trump get's praised for by his supporters of his America First approach. But they got caught out (presumably because somebody (Boeing) wasn't happy.

The EU is a protectionist club. It's all about giving a hand up to it's members on the global stage. Because Airbus have no direct EU rival, I think I come down on the side of thinking this is ok as we're looking after our own. We're talking about trying to make our companies successful over the Americans. Is it illegal under WTO regs - sounds like it! Is it morally correct? I don't know, it's murky. But then international trade always will be. I'm 100% sure there will be protectionist elements in whatever post-Brexit looks like.

They're my views anyway, but I'm no expert.


What about major British companies that were allowed to go bankrupt ?
British energy for one, who were then bought by EDF.
[Post edited 22 Jun 21:14]
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The Countdown begins. on 21:15 - Jun 22 with 438 viewsLeonWasGod

The Countdown begins. on 21:12 - Jun 22 by peenemunde

What about major British companies that were allowed to go bankrupt ?
British energy for one, who were then bought by EDF.
[Post edited 22 Jun 21:14]


I've no idea. I assume all this comes down to the nature of the relationships between the company, the national government where they are registered and the EU. Airbus are a huge multi-national, so I can se why they'd be supported (righty or wrongly).
-1
The Countdown begins. on 21:16 - Jun 22 with 436 viewslonglostjack

The Countdown begins. on 20:54 - Jun 22 by peenemunde

According to the WTO it has been proven.
Airbus is breaking the law and let’s be honest if the U.K. government continued to pay theses subsidies, Airbus wouldn’t be making these threats.

It would be sad day for this country if a multi national company dictated government policy to suit is own selfish and criminal business practices.
[Post edited 22 Jun 20:59]


You talking about Bae and Saudi ?

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The Countdown begins. on 21:18 - Jun 22 with 428 viewspeenemunde

The Countdown begins. on 21:15 - Jun 22 by LeonWasGod

I've no idea. I assume all this comes down to the nature of the relationships between the company, the national government where they are registered and the EU. Airbus are a huge multi-national, so I can se why they'd be supported (righty or wrongly).


If the U.K. government used state aid to subsidie a private company the Eu would take the U.K. to court, but the Eu themselves use state aid in subsiding Airbus.....the hypocrisy is staggering.
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The Countdown begins. on 21:24 - Jun 22 with 423 viewslonglostjack

The Countdown begins. on 21:18 - Jun 22 by peenemunde

If the U.K. government used state aid to subsidie a private company the Eu would take the U.K. to court, but the Eu themselves use state aid in subsiding Airbus.....the hypocrisy is staggering.


You really don’t understand how military contracts work do you Peenemunde. Nobody is whiter than white.

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The Countdown begins. on 21:25 - Jun 22 with 421 viewsLeonWasGod

The Countdown begins. on 21:18 - Jun 22 by peenemunde

If the U.K. government used state aid to subsidie a private company the Eu would take the U.K. to court, but the Eu themselves use state aid in subsiding Airbus.....the hypocrisy is staggering.


Quite possibly. Not that we'd try it on, we like the rules too much! End result is the same in this case though - British workers and the state have both benefited from Airbus success.

The Welsh Government fall over backwards to attract businesses. A lot can be done within the rules that is effectively the same thing.They're funding a new research centre in Broughton that will directly benefit Airbus - https://gov.wales/newsroom/businessandeconomy/2018/180516-construction-begins-on

It's all the same support, just packaged differently to be legal.
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The Countdown begins. on 21:31 - Jun 22 with 415 viewspeenemunde

The Countdown begins. on 21:25 - Jun 22 by LeonWasGod

Quite possibly. Not that we'd try it on, we like the rules too much! End result is the same in this case though - British workers and the state have both benefited from Airbus success.

The Welsh Government fall over backwards to attract businesses. A lot can be done within the rules that is effectively the same thing.They're funding a new research centre in Broughton that will directly benefit Airbus - https://gov.wales/newsroom/businessandeconomy/2018/180516-construction-begins-on

It's all the same support, just packaged differently to be legal.


And now they are threatening to leave.
So they certainly don’t care about British workers and have been proven to taking illegal payments from the Eu.

The Eu expects other countries to abide by the law, but thinks its above the law and can do whatever it wants.
[Post edited 23 Jun 6:58]
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The Countdown begins. on 22:38 - Jun 22 with 385 viewscwm02

The Countdown begins. on 19:28 - Jun 22 by LeonWasGod

Sorry, I don’t mean to be rude, but have you been paying attention to any of this?

Yes, Airbus have a final assembly site in China. Yes, they’re going to increase the size of it, apparently. And yes it has nothing/little to do woth Brexit (you brought it up). But they’re not moving from the UK to China, as they don't assemble planes in the UK. We’re a bit lower down the production line. We make components, from small to large (the wings being the largest example). Those wings go to Tolouse, in a fellow EU country, where we have frictionless trade.

All EU countries are members of the WTO, but we don’t trade solely under WTO rules. We have free trade agreements within the EU bloc. This is what the whole ‘no deal’ argument is about. So for industries with a large supply chain of components, such as aerospace or automotive, these components can be made in one country, shiped to another to be added to, and shipped to another to be incorporated in the final product, without taxes and complex customs checks at each step. And workers essential to the whole process can be moved around the supply chain as needed.

If we leave the EU without a trade agreement we’ll automatically revert to WTO-only rules. This would involve tarrifs. Not only that, Airbus requires certification that products meet a certain standard. The UK would be out of that system, which would result in delays and losses, as the explain in the 2 page statement they released today.

The only country that trades solely under WTO rules is Mauritania, apparently! Pretty much all countries are part of free trade blocs. We wouldn’t be and would have to start from scratch, and the impact of this on a company like Airbus is very clearly stated in their statement (although we would get there eventually - we’d have to).

I’ve no idea where you get your information from, but it doesn’t make sense. Airbus are obviously lobbying for a Brexit deal that’s of least harm to them, but this isn’t about them ignoring the will of the people or trying to stop Brexit. It’s not a conspiracy. This is about their very real fears that a no deal will harm their business. That’s all they care about. And if it does they’d be out of here. They’d have to be, unless their losses were covered in subsidies.

If there’s a counter argument for how wonderful life would be for a company like Airbus after Brexit, don’t you think they’d jump on it and exploit it?


As I said before Britain can join the Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement (like Canada) or remain in the single market and customs union only for a temporary period while a new long-term trade agreement is forged with the EU. The UK could also use this period to negotiate new trade deals with the rest of the world and Airbus IS about ignoring the will of the people or trying to stop Brexit because as you just said it will affect their business.
(No need to apologize you didn't sound rude)
[Post edited 22 Jun 22:46]
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The Countdown begins. on 00:51 - Jun 23 with 345 viewssherpajacob

The Countdown begins. on 22:38 - Jun 22 by cwm02

As I said before Britain can join the Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement (like Canada) or remain in the single market and customs union only for a temporary period while a new long-term trade agreement is forged with the EU. The UK could also use this period to negotiate new trade deals with the rest of the world and Airbus IS about ignoring the will of the people or trying to stop Brexit because as you just said it will affect their business.
(No need to apologize you didn't sound rude)
[Post edited 22 Jun 22:46]


If the will of the people is wrong, as it was for about 40 years on capital punishment, yes it should be ignored.

That's why we have representative democracy and not plebiscite and referendums which are the tools of demagogues and dictators

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The Countdown begins. on 01:07 - Jun 23 with 338 viewsDJack

The Countdown begins. on 18:49 - Jun 22 by pikeypaul

Well done lads 100,000 views on my thread must be up there with the best thread ever.

So Airbus are using Brexit to get more subsidies from the tax payer what a surprise.

It seems like the remoaners love this type of news .

I do not care a flying feck about Airbus if they are not prepared to stand by the side of the majority of the people in this country that want us out of the EU.

Let them go feck themselves.

280 AFLI

SIUYRL


Hello Pikey

In simple terms you could argue that your first line is correct...but as usual you are wrong. Yes it's had many views but that is because of the divisive nature of the thread and also down to the fact that some people cannot stop reacting to simple trolls.

You mention subsidies and you use the phrase "stand by...."people of this country". The truth of the matter is that subsidies can and have been used by this country in and out of the EU to varying degrees of success. Remember the semi-conductor factory outside Newport?! Remember that guy who took a bundle and legged it to Cyprus?! Their success is down to the government of the day doing their homework and pinning the company down (after establishing that they are worthy of subsidies) with an effective contract/(laws) to ensure "value for money. Whereas the "stand by...."people of this country" is just jingoistic nonsense that idiots promulgate as a reflex to arguments that they cant counter.

Jango admits above that in the short and mid term that we will suffer but he expects us to succeed in the long term...which is hilarious as that was the prediction of Brexit from the remainers but the difference is that whilst we expect the UK to do OK in the long term we realise that comparatively the UK will do poorly against the EU. Ergo, we will not do well just better than the current fustercluck.

You keep banging the rocks together.

It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan

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The Countdown begins. on 06:24 - Jun 23 with 286 viewspeenemunde

The Countdown begins. on 00:51 - Jun 23 by sherpajacob

If the will of the people is wrong, as it was for about 40 years on capital punishment, yes it should be ignored.

That's why we have representative democracy and not plebiscite and referendums which are the tools of demagogues and dictators


What should be ignored is people like you, subliminally brained washed idiots.
You are happy to be governed by people like Ken Clarke and Amber Rudd, both members of Bilderburg....liberal fascists who are hell bent on destroying Europe.
[Post edited 23 Jun 6:25]
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The Countdown begins. on 06:32 - Jun 23 with 284 viewsJango

The Countdown begins. on 01:07 - Jun 23 by DJack

Hello Pikey

In simple terms you could argue that your first line is correct...but as usual you are wrong. Yes it's had many views but that is because of the divisive nature of the thread and also down to the fact that some people cannot stop reacting to simple trolls.

You mention subsidies and you use the phrase "stand by...."people of this country". The truth of the matter is that subsidies can and have been used by this country in and out of the EU to varying degrees of success. Remember the semi-conductor factory outside Newport?! Remember that guy who took a bundle and legged it to Cyprus?! Their success is down to the government of the day doing their homework and pinning the company down (after establishing that they are worthy of subsidies) with an effective contract/(laws) to ensure "value for money. Whereas the "stand by...."people of this country" is just jingoistic nonsense that idiots promulgate as a reflex to arguments that they cant counter.

Jango admits above that in the short and mid term that we will suffer but he expects us to succeed in the long term...which is hilarious as that was the prediction of Brexit from the remainers but the difference is that whilst we expect the UK to do OK in the long term we realise that comparatively the UK will do poorly against the EU. Ergo, we will not do well just better than the current fustercluck.

You keep banging the rocks together.


Where did I say we will suffer in the short and mid term? The biggest issue we currently have in the short term is the uncertainty and that’s mainly being caused by the remainers.
1

The Countdown begins. on 06:43 - Jun 23 with 282 viewspikeypaul

279 AFLI

Suck it up you remoaner losers.

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1
The Countdown begins. on 09:22 - Jun 23 with 255 viewscwm02

The Countdown begins. on 00:51 - Jun 23 by sherpajacob

If the will of the people is wrong, as it was for about 40 years on capital punishment, yes it should be ignored.

That's why we have representative democracy and not plebiscite and referendums which are the tools of demagogues and dictators


Responding to your first line, Why? Because you didn't get the result you wanted?
Responding to your second line, is Switzerland full of "demagogues and dictators" considering they have a referendum a lot?
You are demagogues not the Brexiteers
[Post edited 23 Jun 9:38]
-1
The Countdown begins. on 10:52 - Jun 23 with 228 viewsHighjack

The Countdown begins. on 09:22 - Jun 23 by cwm02

Responding to your first line, Why? Because you didn't get the result you wanted?
Responding to your second line, is Switzerland full of "demagogues and dictators" considering they have a referendum a lot?
You are demagogues not the Brexiteers
[Post edited 23 Jun 9:38]


Ireland like a referendum too. Of course history shows that whenever they’ve voted against the EU (which is most of the time) they are made to vote again until they vote the correct way.

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
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1
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