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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK 23:28 - Nov 10 with 1224433 viewspikeypaul



And like a typical anti democracy remoaner he decided the will of the people should be ignored the minute the democratic result was in total fecking hypocrite 😂😂😂😂😂😂

Despite it being voted in to law by the commons the spineless two faced remoaner MPs have totally abandoned any morals and decided to ignore the will of the British people.

It will be remembered and no election or referendum will ever be the same again in this country.

The one thing that will come is a massive surge in the popularity of UKIP or a similar party in the future who stand for the 52%.

Happy Days.

[Post edited 29 Mar 4:37]

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 12:39 - Oct 14 with 592 viewsJango

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 11:04 - Oct 14 by Uxbridge

And yet studies show 3.5m Britons don't have any photo ID whatsoever (regardless of whether it would meet the standards required for any proposed legislation) and 11m don't have a passport and driving licence.

Still, foreigners eh and their dodgy postal votes ....


Ffs get a grip.
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 13:07 - Oct 14 with 548 viewslondonlisa2001

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 10:38 - Oct 14 by bluey_the_blue

Taken from social media.

You need ID to

Buy alcohol
Buy cigarettes
Rent a house
Open a bank account
Get a job
Claim benefits
Go abroad
Drive a car
Be on a college campus

ID required to vote?
Voter suppression!

==============

Postal voting has always been dodgy as fvck and you know it - those "minorities and disadvantaged communities" you're championing have been prone to have people "helping" them by posting the forms - all of which tend to favour Labour.

Where no passport, driving licence available then I personally think there should be some sort of "national identity card".


You’ll have to explain how requiring photo ID at polling booths does anything to change postal voting practices.

The very limited trial carried out this year showed that the legislation prevents legitimate voters being able to vote. And it disadvantages people who are most disadvantaged anyway.

That’s the whole point of it.
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 13:08 - Oct 14 with 559 viewsUxbridge

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 12:39 - Oct 14 by Jango

Ffs get a grip.


No, you're right. Ignore the evidence of experts. It's what we do now. What would they possibly know how it would effect people. It's not as if it was trialed and large numbers of people were denied a vote? Oh, it was trialled in 10 council wards and as many as 700 people were denied a vote? Extrapolate that by the number of wards and the two/threefold likely increase in voting percentages in GE's, and the numbers are eye-watering.

Good to see the PS brains trust are acting to type on this one. I'd have been disappointed if otherwise.

it's a flagrant attempt to stop people who are unlikely to vote for the Tories, and if you think otherwise you're either a Tory who's quite happy to see supression of groups you're not particularly keen on voting (or, in some cases, not particularly keen on those groups) or you think it'll help Brexit in some way, because everything is viewed through that lens in your world. Ironically, it probably would have detrimentally affected Leave in 2016 given the voting patterns at that time, although most polls tend to suggest that would be reversed or lessened in the future. That's probably a factor too, although Johnson doesn't give a toss about Brexit and this is all about skewing the odds in favour of the Tories for the future.

The problem doesn't exist to any real degree, despite the nods and winks towards immigrant communities like Reddy and others like to refer to in the Peterbrough example.

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 13:08 - Oct 14 with 547 viewslondonlisa2001

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 11:15 - Oct 14 by bluey_the_blue

Which is why I said a "national identity card" should be used for voting.

There were many students last GE bragging of voting both at Uni and home. Electoral fraud happens, convictions are rare.


Voter ID wouldn’t prevent people who are registered in two places voting twice would it.
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 13:56 - Oct 14 with 502 viewsbluey_the_blue

Good grief.

So no postal voting abuses ever occur, any dodginess is perfectly fine if it benefits anybody other than Tories...

Trials are trials, to see how things work, to determine areas of improvement. I think free national ID cards should be available for those wanting "photo" ID.

EDIT: All I see is "lol, benefits Tories" as an argument against somebody being able to prove they are who they say they are for voting. I don't see anyone highlighting the current constituencies, which unduly benefits Labour, nor do I see anyone giving a valid reason for not requiring people to accurately identify themselves.
[Post edited 14 Oct 13:58]
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:00 - Oct 14 with 491 viewslondonlisa2001

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 13:56 - Oct 14 by bluey_the_blue

Good grief.

So no postal voting abuses ever occur, any dodginess is perfectly fine if it benefits anybody other than Tories...

Trials are trials, to see how things work, to determine areas of improvement. I think free national ID cards should be available for those wanting "photo" ID.

EDIT: All I see is "lol, benefits Tories" as an argument against somebody being able to prove they are who they say they are for voting. I don't see anyone highlighting the current constituencies, which unduly benefits Labour, nor do I see anyone giving a valid reason for not requiring people to accurately identify themselves.
[Post edited 14 Oct 13:58]


Postal voting is not what is being discussed is it.

It’s ID at polling stations.

But you crack on. Every single study shows it’s disadvantageous to certain groups. That’s the whole point.
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:23 - Oct 14 with 478 viewsA_Fans_Dad

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:00 - Oct 14 by londonlisa2001

Postal voting is not what is being discussed is it.

It’s ID at polling stations.

But you crack on. Every single study shows it’s disadvantageous to certain groups. That’s the whole point.


Please provide links to those studies that show free ID cards are disadvantageous to certain groups.
Unless of course you mean people who can't read, write or speak to ask for them.
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:31 - Oct 14 with 477 viewsUxbridge

We seem to have gone from millions of Britons not having the sort of ID that Johnson would deem acceptable for them to have a vote to the merits or otherwise of a national identification system. That's a whole other bag of issues.

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:42 - Oct 14 with 456 viewslondonlisa2001

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:23 - Oct 14 by A_Fans_Dad

Please provide links to those studies that show free ID cards are disadvantageous to certain groups.
Unless of course you mean people who can't read, write or speak to ask for them.


We don’t have free photo ID cards? We don’t have a national identity scheme in this country.

I said that voter photo ID requirements are disadvantageous to certain groups.

At present that means passports and driving licenses and as pointed out, there are 3 million plus people who don’t have them. So it’s pretty disadvantageous for them don’t you think?
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:48 - Oct 14 with 447 viewsA_Fans_Dad

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:42 - Oct 14 by londonlisa2001

We don’t have free photo ID cards? We don’t have a national identity scheme in this country.

I said that voter photo ID requirements are disadvantageous to certain groups.

At present that means passports and driving licenses and as pointed out, there are 3 million plus people who don’t have them. So it’s pretty disadvantageous for them don’t you think?


"Sir Eric's report said: 'The most significant issue in relation to polling stations though is whether electors should be required to provide identification before being allowed to vote.

'Trust has been an enduring factor in British elections for many decades. But a number of commentators now point to the potential for significant abuse if people can commit personation at polling stations with little risk of detection.

'It is harder to take out a municipal library book than it is to vote in a polling station administered by the same council.' Ten voter ID pilots were undertaken in May of this year and the Electoral Commission concluded that a large number of people would 'not have a problem' with complying with the requirement.

However, it also found that such a system 'would not be accessible for everyone' and 'some groups of people would find it harder than others to show photo ID in a polling station'.

The government's Bill will require people to provide an 'approved form of photographic ID' - potentially a driving licence or passport - in order to be able to vote.

Anyone who does not have an approved form of ID will be able to apply, free of charge, for an electoral identity document from their local council."

See the last sentence.
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:05 - Oct 14 with 434 viewslondonlisa2001

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:48 - Oct 14 by A_Fans_Dad

"Sir Eric's report said: 'The most significant issue in relation to polling stations though is whether electors should be required to provide identification before being allowed to vote.

'Trust has been an enduring factor in British elections for many decades. But a number of commentators now point to the potential for significant abuse if people can commit personation at polling stations with little risk of detection.

'It is harder to take out a municipal library book than it is to vote in a polling station administered by the same council.' Ten voter ID pilots were undertaken in May of this year and the Electoral Commission concluded that a large number of people would 'not have a problem' with complying with the requirement.

However, it also found that such a system 'would not be accessible for everyone' and 'some groups of people would find it harder than others to show photo ID in a polling station'.

The government's Bill will require people to provide an 'approved form of photographic ID' - potentially a driving licence or passport - in order to be able to vote.

Anyone who does not have an approved form of ID will be able to apply, free of charge, for an electoral identity document from their local council."

See the last sentence.


Are you being ridiculous for the sake of it?

At the moment, over 3 million people (largely the poorest, oldest and immigrants) do not have any form of photo ID.

We do not have a system of national ID cards which is why the above statement is true.

When it comes to passports and driving licences alone, about 11 million don’t have them.

If they being in a requirement for photo ID, many people cannot vote unless they get themselves an ID card (which they don’t currently have).

The whole purpose of the legislation is relying on the fact that, (a) the poorest, oldest people are disadvantaged as are immigrants by not currently having ID, (b) even if a programme of allowing them to get ID without charge is brought in, many wont do that as the whole process of applying for forms etc is daunting for them and (c) the whole system will be guaranteed to grind to a crashing halt of cock ups, applications going missing, backlogs etc which will mean that there will be thousands, if not tens of thousands that have no valid ID before an election.

That means they can’t vote.

There are next to no instances of fraud at polling stations. The system proposed does nothing to address the postal system, which is far more open to abuse.

The US, which requires ID to vote and similarly has no system of national identity cards, has done extensive research into the effects of such legislation and has found that the system leads to lower voter engagement amongst the poor, elderly, students and immigrants. Particularly people who are more than one of these groups.

The voter ID pilots that were undertaken this year showed that more than 700 people were prevented from casting a legitimate vote. That is many, many multiples of the number of cases of potential fraud that have ever been uncovered.

Now doubtless you know better, but I’d prefer to listen to groups that speak on behalf of those affected than listen to you. Given your comprehension of, as far as I can tell, everything, is sorely limited.
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:11 - Oct 14 with 427 viewsLohengrin

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:05 - Oct 14 by londonlisa2001

Are you being ridiculous for the sake of it?

At the moment, over 3 million people (largely the poorest, oldest and immigrants) do not have any form of photo ID.

We do not have a system of national ID cards which is why the above statement is true.

When it comes to passports and driving licences alone, about 11 million don’t have them.

If they being in a requirement for photo ID, many people cannot vote unless they get themselves an ID card (which they don’t currently have).

The whole purpose of the legislation is relying on the fact that, (a) the poorest, oldest people are disadvantaged as are immigrants by not currently having ID, (b) even if a programme of allowing them to get ID without charge is brought in, many wont do that as the whole process of applying for forms etc is daunting for them and (c) the whole system will be guaranteed to grind to a crashing halt of cock ups, applications going missing, backlogs etc which will mean that there will be thousands, if not tens of thousands that have no valid ID before an election.

That means they can’t vote.

There are next to no instances of fraud at polling stations. The system proposed does nothing to address the postal system, which is far more open to abuse.

The US, which requires ID to vote and similarly has no system of national identity cards, has done extensive research into the effects of such legislation and has found that the system leads to lower voter engagement amongst the poor, elderly, students and immigrants. Particularly people who are more than one of these groups.

The voter ID pilots that were undertaken this year showed that more than 700 people were prevented from casting a legitimate vote. That is many, many multiples of the number of cases of potential fraud that have ever been uncovered.

Now doubtless you know better, but I’d prefer to listen to groups that speak on behalf of those affected than listen to you. Given your comprehension of, as far as I can tell, everything, is sorely limited.


“The oldest” people around you were issued with National Identity Cards. Your Nan would have had one, Lis. They phased them out circa ‘52/53 if memory serves.

If they had been retained it would have save the Windrush crowd a lot of recent bother.

An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it.

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:14 - Oct 14 with 422 viewslondonlisa2001

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:11 - Oct 14 by Lohengrin

“The oldest” people around you were issued with National Identity Cards. Your Nan would have had one, Lis. They phased them out circa ‘52/53 if memory serves.

If they had been retained it would have save the Windrush crowd a lot of recent bother.


I don’t have a problem with national identity cards, never have had a problem with them. As it happens, I also don’t have a problem with them containing biometric information - I’ve long thought a national database of fingerprints and DNA was sensible. That’s very right wing of me, I know...

But that’s not what is being debated. While we don’t have them, voter ID is discriminatory. If we bring them in, fine.
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:19 - Oct 14 with 417 viewsLohengrin

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:14 - Oct 14 by londonlisa2001

I don’t have a problem with national identity cards, never have had a problem with them. As it happens, I also don’t have a problem with them containing biometric information - I’ve long thought a national database of fingerprints and DNA was sensible. That’s very right wing of me, I know...

But that’s not what is being debated. While we don’t have them, voter ID is discriminatory. If we bring them in, fine.


I don’t see it as a left-right issue at all to be honest.

An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it.

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:19 - Oct 14 with 413 viewslondonlisa2001

I found it interesting, that despite newspaper spin, the Queen’s Speech didn’t actually say we were leaving the EU on 31 October. Quite the departure...
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:22 - Oct 14 with 409 viewslondonlisa2001

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:19 - Oct 14 by Lohengrin

I don’t see it as a left-right issue at all to be honest.


Neither do I, but national ID and, particularly, national databases of personal info, is often seen as a more ‘right wing’ stance as traditionally left wing sources have opposed it.

Given everyone happily gives a ton of personal info to Tesco to have a loyalty card, it’s always bemused me.
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:25 - Oct 14 with 410 viewsLohengrin

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:19 - Oct 14 by londonlisa2001

I found it interesting, that despite newspaper spin, the Queen’s Speech didn’t actually say we were leaving the EU on 31 October. Quite the departure...


I listened to that live on the radio earlier. I was lying in the bath half awake after just getting up off nights. Even in a befuddled semi-stupor I picked up on the phrasing straight away.

An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it.

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:29 - Oct 14 with 405 viewsLohengrin

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:22 - Oct 14 by londonlisa2001

Neither do I, but national ID and, particularly, national databases of personal info, is often seen as a more ‘right wing’ stance as traditionally left wing sources have opposed it.

Given everyone happily gives a ton of personal info to Tesco to have a loyalty card, it’s always bemused me.


Opposed it when in opposition? I’m sure I’m right when I say that the suggestion for the issuance of the original UK National Registration Identity Card came from Labour and the Chamberlain Govt. were happy to run with it.

An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it.

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:31 - Oct 14 with 398 viewslondonlisa2001

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:29 - Oct 14 by Lohengrin

Opposed it when in opposition? I’m sure I’m right when I say that the suggestion for the issuance of the original UK National Registration Identity Card came from Labour and the Chamberlain Govt. were happy to run with it.


Opposed it as a concept whenever it’s mooted in recent times.

I’m not sure what the Labour official stance is btw - I’m talking about ‘left wing’ more generally.

It came up a few years ago didn’t it? And there were howls of outrage.
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:32 - Oct 14 with 394 viewslondonlisa2001

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:25 - Oct 14 by Lohengrin

I listened to that live on the radio earlier. I was lying in the bath half awake after just getting up off nights. Even in a befuddled semi-stupor I picked up on the phrasing straight away.


Yep.

The government’s summary reportedly (I haven’t seen it) says the speech said we are leaving on October 31st, but it most definitely did not.
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:34 - Oct 14 with 394 viewswaynekerr55

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:25 - Oct 14 by Lohengrin

I listened to that live on the radio earlier. I was lying in the bath half awake after just getting up off nights. Even in a befuddled semi-stupor I picked up on the phrasing straight away.


Dead in a ditch, it is then?

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:35 - Oct 14 with 393 viewsUxbridge

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:31 - Oct 14 by londonlisa2001

Opposed it as a concept whenever it’s mooted in recent times.

I’m not sure what the Labour official stance is btw - I’m talking about ‘left wing’ more generally.

It came up a few years ago didn’t it? And there were howls of outrage.


I remember the arguments in the late 90's around photo driving licences as being the first step towards a national identification system. It took a while for that to die down.

Given we're currently in the situation where any number of apps know far more information about us than any Government ever has, the civil liberty arguments are probably a lot weaker than they have been in the past. It wouldn't surprise me if some enterprising person developed some sort of app and then partnered up with the Govt to turn that into an official ID.

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:40 - Oct 14 with 386 viewsLohengrin

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:31 - Oct 14 by londonlisa2001

Opposed it as a concept whenever it’s mooted in recent times.

I’m not sure what the Labour official stance is btw - I’m talking about ‘left wing’ more generally.

It came up a few years ago didn’t it? And there were howls of outrage.


For what it’s worth I’ve no idea as to what Labour’s ‘official’ stance is to current suggestions, or even if it has one?

The ‘Left’ position more generally just seems to be it opposes everything in the hope that every now and again antipathy strikes a chord.

An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it.

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:40 - Oct 14 with 382 viewslondonlisa2001

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:35 - Oct 14 by Uxbridge

I remember the arguments in the late 90's around photo driving licences as being the first step towards a national identification system. It took a while for that to die down.

Given we're currently in the situation where any number of apps know far more information about us than any Government ever has, the civil liberty arguments are probably a lot weaker than they have been in the past. It wouldn't surprise me if some enterprising person developed some sort of app and then partnered up with the Govt to turn that into an official ID.


Facebook.
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:43 - Oct 14 with 378 viewsLohengrin

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:34 - Oct 14 by waynekerr55

Dead in a ditch, it is then?


Or done a Dan James, as the new adage goes.

An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it.

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