Please log in or register. Registered visitors get fewer ads.
Forum index | Previous Thread | Next thread
Remoaner,losers . 23:28 - Nov 10 with 2301339 viewspikeypaul

OUT WITH A DEAL EATING OUR CAKE AND LOVING IT suck it up remoaners



And like a typical anti democracy remoaner he decided the will of the people should be ignored the minute the democratic result was in total fecking hypocrite 😂😂😂😂😂😂

Despite it being voted in to law by the commons the spineless two faced remoaner MPs have totally abandoned any morals and decided to ignore the will of the British people.

It will be remembered and no election or referendum will ever be the same again in this country.

The one thing that will come is a massive surge in the popularity of UKIP or a similar party in the future who stand for the 52%.

Happy Days.

[Post edited 1 Jan 2021 14:13]

OUT AFLI SUCK IT UP REMOANER LOSERS 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧
Poll: Where wil Judas be sitting when we play Millwall?

-1
Remoaner,losers . on 00:33 - Jul 31 with 1394 viewsDJack

Remoaner,losers . on 00:04 - Jul 31 by Kerouac

The EU isn't a sovereign nation though is it.

You consider needing the consensus of 27 nations in order to act a "bonus" do you?
It is a hindrance.


Yep, I agree but it can also act as a couterweight to kneejerk military action. With the need to convince many nations we would hope for better reasoning and Intelligence before diving in - rather than the US saying "They have WMD".

It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan

0
Remoaner,losers . on 06:59 - Jul 31 with 1363 viewsHighjack

Remoaner,losers . on 00:29 - Jul 31 by DJack

Your talking about the political structure above. I brought SACEUR into this as an explanation of why it it may be that European Nations would like a European Army. As SACEUR, an American, is in COMMAND of ALL OPERATIONS.

https://shape.nato.int/military_command_structure


Yes he’s in command of all operations but who gives him orders ordering him which operations to operate? He has a boss who is British.

Then you have the Secretary General who is top dog who is also European.

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Poll: Should Dippy Drakeford do us all a massive favour and just bog off?

0
Remoaner,losers . on 12:11 - Jul 31 with 1335 viewsCatullus

Remoaner,losers . on 00:33 - Jul 31 by DJack

Yep, I agree but it can also act as a couterweight to kneejerk military action. With the need to convince many nations we would hope for better reasoning and Intelligence before diving in - rather than the US saying "They have WMD".


Obviously kneejerk military action is bad but then, needing the agreement of so many different leaders is even worse. In times when military action is needed, you need to make decisions quickly and decisively, they need to be well thought out obviously but a war cannot be won if led by committee. Before you've made a choice the enemy will be at the gates. You need someone capable of making the definitive choice. 27 national leaders are much more likely to argue over the choice of action. Imagine it was action against Turkey, how would Romania, Bulgaria and Greece feel about that, a war right on their doorstep?

edited just to say that NATO was set up basically to counter the Soviet threat. If we have an EU army it could be taken as a threat to the Russians with the kind of language being used, like the thing about soft power not being enough any more, that the EU needs it's own military strength. It's a destabilising action that threatens peace in Europe. Of course the USA could take it as an insult too and only France has nuclear capability at the moment but if they were in an EU army then there is the possiblity of others (including Germany) having nukes, do we want that?
[Post edited 31 Jul 2020 12:27]

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
Poll: Offended by what Brynmill J and Controversial J post on the Ukraine thread?
Blog: In, Out, in, out........

0
Remoaner,losers . on 12:22 - Jul 31 with 1332 viewsCatullus

Remoaner,losers . on 23:27 - Jul 30 by DJack

You mean like practically every other Sovereign nation...except it would have the bonus of needing the consencus of the participating nations for any action.


So you have argued that an EU army isn't happening but now not only do you seem to accept it is but you seem to be suggesting the EU is a sovereign nation, or is going to be?

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
Poll: Offended by what Brynmill J and Controversial J post on the Ukraine thread?
Blog: In, Out, in, out........

1
Remoaner,losers . on 12:40 - Jul 31 with 1328 viewsA_Fans_Dad

Remoaner,losers . on 12:11 - Jul 31 by Catullus

Obviously kneejerk military action is bad but then, needing the agreement of so many different leaders is even worse. In times when military action is needed, you need to make decisions quickly and decisively, they need to be well thought out obviously but a war cannot be won if led by committee. Before you've made a choice the enemy will be at the gates. You need someone capable of making the definitive choice. 27 national leaders are much more likely to argue over the choice of action. Imagine it was action against Turkey, how would Romania, Bulgaria and Greece feel about that, a war right on their doorstep?

edited just to say that NATO was set up basically to counter the Soviet threat. If we have an EU army it could be taken as a threat to the Russians with the kind of language being used, like the thing about soft power not being enough any more, that the EU needs it's own military strength. It's a destabilising action that threatens peace in Europe. Of course the USA could take it as an insult too and only France has nuclear capability at the moment but if they were in an EU army then there is the possiblity of others (including Germany) having nukes, do we want that?
[Post edited 31 Jul 2020 12:27]


Does anybody really believe that if Germany and France decide on an "action" they would let any other other nations stand in their way?
0
Remoaner,losers . on 23:06 - Jul 31 with 1279 viewsDJack

Remoaner,losers . on 06:59 - Jul 31 by Highjack

Yes he’s in command of all operations but who gives him orders ordering him which operations to operate? He has a boss who is British.

Then you have the Secretary General who is top dog who is also European.


1.His boss may be swayed by the President of the US...you may remember a couple of ocassions when this has happened.

2. I never intimated that he would instigate operations on his own but when he has an operation he decides how it is executed within his parameters - try getting politicians to define parameters fit for kinetic operations!

3. His view of the execution of his operation might not fully align with European thinking.

And once againI started on this in reply to Chad's question on a true European army.

It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan

0
Remoaner,losers . on 23:19 - Jul 31 with 1269 viewsDJack

Remoaner,losers . on 12:11 - Jul 31 by Catullus

Obviously kneejerk military action is bad but then, needing the agreement of so many different leaders is even worse. In times when military action is needed, you need to make decisions quickly and decisively, they need to be well thought out obviously but a war cannot be won if led by committee. Before you've made a choice the enemy will be at the gates. You need someone capable of making the definitive choice. 27 national leaders are much more likely to argue over the choice of action. Imagine it was action against Turkey, how would Romania, Bulgaria and Greece feel about that, a war right on their doorstep?

edited just to say that NATO was set up basically to counter the Soviet threat. If we have an EU army it could be taken as a threat to the Russians with the kind of language being used, like the thing about soft power not being enough any more, that the EU needs it's own military strength. It's a destabilising action that threatens peace in Europe. Of course the USA could take it as an insult too and only France has nuclear capability at the moment but if they were in an EU army then there is the possiblity of others (including Germany) having nukes, do we want that?
[Post edited 31 Jul 2020 12:27]


Your point would be exactly the same for NATO!!!...unless you think a particular nation holds greater sway which then underscores my point of why some believe in a Euro army

The Russians already see European democracies as an economic threat and a societal threat - they dont want ordinary Russians seeing functioning democracies thrive and then start asking questions of their own government (kleptocracy). Russia is currently running multiple level cyber operations against the west in an effort to corrupt/undermine our democratic institutions and cause a schism between government and the people and the people against their fellow countryman.

As I've repeated a Euro Army would be a collective of interopable forces from differnt nations much like NATO naval ops when the Carrier may be Yank the miesweepers british, the frigates French and the supply ships Dutch.

You forgot that Britain has a nuke capability and are foolish if you believe that the UK won't be a part of a Euro Army as I've described.

It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan

0
Remoaner,losers . on 23:28 - Jul 31 with 1265 viewsDJack

Remoaner,losers . on 12:22 - Jul 31 by Catullus

So you have argued that an EU army isn't happening but now not only do you seem to accept it is but you seem to be suggesting the EU is a sovereign nation, or is going to be?


No, I've argued (repeatedly) that the Euro Army wont exist as a homogenous pan European non individual nation force.

I DID NOT say the EU was a sovereign nation, I pointed out(or at least tried to) that the Multination EU which has economic assets, geopolitical objectives, and ALSO national land(multiples) has anarguement that it should have a harmonic, interoperable legally based army much like it's individual nations - or more precisely it's component nations provide to a military force to protect their collective assetsand shared beliefs.

It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan

0
Login to get fewer ads

Remoaner,losers . on 23:30 - Jul 31 with 1262 viewsDJack

To date NOBODY has provided a coherent answer as to "what the actual problem is with a European Army."

It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan

0
Remoaner,losers . on 00:16 - Aug 1 with 1254 viewsKerouac

Remoaner,losers . on 23:30 - Jul 31 by DJack

To date NOBODY has provided a coherent answer as to "what the actual problem is with a European Army."


I don't want my son going off to die in the interests of France and at the command of corrupt officials who despise my country and what it stands for.
Good enough reason for you?
Actually, I don't care whether somebody who thinks like you thinks it a good reason or not, so don't bother answering.

I am also repulsed by this steadfast tactic of claiming that something is definitely not happening (because that something is deeply unpopular and nobody would vote for it), before sneaking that very same something in via the backdoor a little piece at a time and then finally claiming that there was nothing wrong with it anyway...in fact there is something wrong with you for ever opposing it in the first place ("must be because you are right-wing nazi" etc.)...and "what do you mean nobody asked you (at the ballot box) ? You're too stupid to have any say peasant."
The elites of Europe have been playing that particular game for a long time now, we saw through it a long time ago and we are not having it anymore.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ss9VZ1FHxy0
Poll: Which manager should replace Russell Martin (2) ?

-1
Remoaner,losers . on 00:20 - Aug 1 with 1250 viewsLohengrin

Remoaner,losers . on 23:30 - Jul 31 by DJack

To date NOBODY has provided a coherent answer as to "what the actual problem is with a European Army."


We’ve had one.


An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it.

0
Remoaner,losers . on 00:53 - Aug 1 with 1240 viewsDJack

Remoaner,losers . on 00:16 - Aug 1 by Kerouac

I don't want my son going off to die in the interests of France and at the command of corrupt officials who despise my country and what it stands for.
Good enough reason for you?
Actually, I don't care whether somebody who thinks like you thinks it a good reason or not, so don't bother answering.

I am also repulsed by this steadfast tactic of claiming that something is definitely not happening (because that something is deeply unpopular and nobody would vote for it), before sneaking that very same something in via the backdoor a little piece at a time and then finally claiming that there was nothing wrong with it anyway...in fact there is something wrong with you for ever opposing it in the first place ("must be because you are right-wing nazi" etc.)...and "what do you mean nobody asked you (at the ballot box) ? You're too stupid to have any say peasant."
The elites of Europe have been playing that particular game for a long time now, we saw through it a long time ago and we are not having it anymore.


Your argument sounds much like the Brexit one.

It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan

0
Remoaner,losers . on 00:54 - Aug 1 with 1240 viewsDJack

Remoaner,losers . on 00:20 - Aug 1 by Lohengrin

We’ve had one.



No we didn't Oswald.

It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan

0
Remoaner,losers . on 01:05 - Aug 1 with 1239 viewsLohengrin

Remoaner,losers . on 00:54 - Aug 1 by DJack

No we didn't Oswald.


Waffen SS: German, Austrian, Norwegian, French, Belgian, Swiss, Finnish, Swedish, Danish, Spanish, etc..etc.. on and on

You know better, naturally.

An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it.

0
Remoaner,losers . on 01:11 - Aug 1 with 1238 viewsDJack

Remoaner,losers . on 01:05 - Aug 1 by Lohengrin

Waffen SS: German, Austrian, Norwegian, French, Belgian, Swiss, Finnish, Swedish, Danish, Spanish, etc..etc.. on and on

You know better, naturally.


No that was facism in action...we both know better but we weight it differently.

Btw your "You know better, naturally. " comment was the closet to a bite I've had from you...Enjoy your slurp.

It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan

0
Remoaner,losers . on 02:18 - Aug 1 with 1233 viewsLohengrin

Remoaner,losers . on 01:11 - Aug 1 by DJack

No that was facism in action...we both know better but we weight it differently.

Btw your "You know better, naturally. " comment was the closet to a bite I've had from you...Enjoy your slurp.


An absolutely monumental slurp it is too.

BTW Fascism: the first free school meals, the first old age pension, the first health and safety at work acts...the Blackshirt bad guys who made finance the servant not the master of man... the bastards!


An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it.

0
Remoaner,losers . on 12:44 - Aug 1 with 1182 viewsKilkennyjack

Remoaner,losers . on 02:18 - Aug 1 by Lohengrin

An absolutely monumental slurp it is too.

BTW Fascism: the first free school meals, the first old age pension, the first health and safety at work acts...the Blackshirt bad guys who made finance the servant not the master of man... the bastards!



First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out–
Because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out–
Because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out–
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me–and there was no one left to speak for me.

✊🏾🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿

Beware of the Risen People

0
Remoaner,losers . on 13:18 - Aug 1 with 1176 viewsDJack

Remoaner,losers . on 00:16 - Aug 1 by Kerouac

I don't want my son going off to die in the interests of France and at the command of corrupt officials who despise my country and what it stands for.
Good enough reason for you?
Actually, I don't care whether somebody who thinks like you thinks it a good reason or not, so don't bother answering.

I am also repulsed by this steadfast tactic of claiming that something is definitely not happening (because that something is deeply unpopular and nobody would vote for it), before sneaking that very same something in via the backdoor a little piece at a time and then finally claiming that there was nothing wrong with it anyway...in fact there is something wrong with you for ever opposing it in the first place ("must be because you are right-wing nazi" etc.)...and "what do you mean nobody asked you (at the ballot box) ? You're too stupid to have any say peasant."
The elites of Europe have been playing that particular game for a long time now, we saw through it a long time ago and we are not having it anymore.


"Actually, I don't care whether somebody who thinks like you thinks it a good reason or not, so don't bother answering. "

Ironic as like others you've claimed arrogance and unnecessary/unfounded vitriol on the part of those you disagree with and yet here you are displaying the same towards myself.

I fully expect Chad to come along shortly to chastise you for your arrogance and tone...

It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan

1
Remoaner,losers . on 13:35 - Aug 1 with 1166 viewsHighjack

Remoaner,losers . on 12:44 - Aug 1 by Kilkennyjack

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out–
Because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out–
Because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out–
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me–and there was no one left to speak for me.

✊🏾🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿


You had plenty of time to speak out when they came for the absolutely bonkers, so quit whining.

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Poll: Should Dippy Drakeford do us all a massive favour and just bog off?

-1
Remoaner,losers . on 14:37 - Aug 1 with 1148 viewsCatullus

Remoaner,losers . on 23:30 - Jul 31 by DJack

To date NOBODY has provided a coherent answer as to "what the actual problem is with a European Army."


If, as you believe the EU army would just be used as PESCO then there's no problem. The problem comes in when or if the EU actually moves towards being a federal sovereign state. An EU army would mean the end of NATO as we know it and if it is that last part the UK won't be part of it unless we rejoin the EU.

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
Poll: Offended by what Brynmill J and Controversial J post on the Ukraine thread?
Blog: In, Out, in, out........

0
Remoaner,losers . on 21:51 - Aug 1 with 1112 viewsDJack

Remoaner,losers . on 14:37 - Aug 1 by Catullus

If, as you believe the EU army would just be used as PESCO then there's no problem. The problem comes in when or if the EU actually moves towards being a federal sovereign state. An EU army would mean the end of NATO as we know it and if it is that last part the UK won't be part of it unless we rejoin the EU.


Your hypothetical is fine...it's just a shame that you lambasted remainers for their "hypotheticals" on Brexit but I digress.

All the initiatives , planning and talk of further alignment have all been part of the PESCO thinking and all of these initiatives are highlighted as such.

Our current political masters (the furthest right the Tories have been in recent history) will align themselves as the US's toadying bitch if that were ever the case. Putting your scaremongering aside, the US military have no issue with European integration/interopability as long as they align themselves either with the US or against their perceived foes.

It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan

0
Remoaner,losers . on 23:06 - Aug 1 with 1106 viewsCatullus

Remoaner,losers . on 21:51 - Aug 1 by DJack

Your hypothetical is fine...it's just a shame that you lambasted remainers for their "hypotheticals" on Brexit but I digress.

All the initiatives , planning and talk of further alignment have all been part of the PESCO thinking and all of these initiatives are highlighted as such.

Our current political masters (the furthest right the Tories have been in recent history) will align themselves as the US's toadying bitch if that were ever the case. Putting your scaremongering aside, the US military have no issue with European integration/interopability as long as they align themselves either with the US or against their perceived foes.


Now there's the big difference, some of the remain arguments weren't just hypotheticals, they were downright lies. Both sides lied but I still had to take a side.

These EU hypotheticals though aren't that hypothetical. There have been plenty of times people have spoken up about taking more power, about further integration and going Federal, about an EU army. Verhofstadt ( the EU' brexit spokesman, ex PM of Belgium and quite honestly in my eyes a bit of a loony but still in a position of power within the EU) has ranted on a few times about such things yet remain supporters usually dismiss him. If he isn't worthy of listening to why is he still high up in the EU? Von der Leyen herslef is a big supporter of having an EU aemy...there's so much that's already been posted. If these people are saying it should happen or could happen how can anybody dismiss it out of hand?
You can dismiss a hypothetical when it doesn't happen, such as Osborne's prediction that a vote to leave would see an emergency budget, tax rises, massive unemployment and Cameron even suggested there would be bullets flying around Europe. They never happened and so were dismissed. If an EU army never happens then you can say I told you so.

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
Poll: Offended by what Brynmill J and Controversial J post on the Ukraine thread?
Blog: In, Out, in, out........

0
Remoaner,losers . on 10:14 - Aug 2 with 1071 viewswaynekerr55



These guys are worth a follow on Twitter

How many of you know what DP stands for?
Poll: POTY 2019
Blog: Too many things for a title, but stop with the xenophobia accusations!

0
Remoaner,losers . on 14:39 - Aug 2 with 1033 viewsDJack

Remoaner,losers . on 23:06 - Aug 1 by Catullus

Now there's the big difference, some of the remain arguments weren't just hypotheticals, they were downright lies. Both sides lied but I still had to take a side.

These EU hypotheticals though aren't that hypothetical. There have been plenty of times people have spoken up about taking more power, about further integration and going Federal, about an EU army. Verhofstadt ( the EU' brexit spokesman, ex PM of Belgium and quite honestly in my eyes a bit of a loony but still in a position of power within the EU) has ranted on a few times about such things yet remain supporters usually dismiss him. If he isn't worthy of listening to why is he still high up in the EU? Von der Leyen herslef is a big supporter of having an EU aemy...there's so much that's already been posted. If these people are saying it should happen or could happen how can anybody dismiss it out of hand?
You can dismiss a hypothetical when it doesn't happen, such as Osborne's prediction that a vote to leave would see an emergency budget, tax rises, massive unemployment and Cameron even suggested there would be bullets flying around Europe. They never happened and so were dismissed. If an EU army never happens then you can say I told you so.


Compare what has been said in the EU with things said in our own parliamnet at any given time. A shit-ton of stuff is mooted, sometimes with no real belief or conviction, often just to appeal to a group, often something(s) that will never get of the ground.

It is hilarious that those that screech about the EU parliament fail to see the parallels in our own.

It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan

0
Remoaner,losers . on 16:06 - Aug 2 with 1022 viewsHighjack

Remoaner,losers . on 14:39 - Aug 2 by DJack

Compare what has been said in the EU with things said in our own parliamnet at any given time. A shit-ton of stuff is mooted, sometimes with no real belief or conviction, often just to appeal to a group, often something(s) that will never get of the ground.

It is hilarious that those that screech about the EU parliament fail to see the parallels in our own.


That’s just whataboutery. We’ve had this nonsense from the start.

If someone is critical of the EU, pointing out correctly that our own system is also shit is not a strong defence of the EU. It’s irrelevant. It’s a different argument and discussion altogether.

In fact it’s an argument AGAINST the EU as why would anybody want two shit systems (Three if you include the WAG) when they could only have one?

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Poll: Should Dippy Drakeford do us all a massive favour and just bog off?

-1
About Us Contact Us Terms & Conditions Privacy Cookies Advertising
© FansNetwork 2024