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The Countdown begins. 23:28 - Nov 10 with 235199 viewspikeypaul



https://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20190329T23&p0=1336&msg=Democr

1:19 pm today was the exact mid point from when the result that the Great British public had decided to leave the EU and the time 11pm March 29th 2019 that Democracy will be delivered.

Happy days.
[Post edited 25 Jun 17:01]

🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧
Poll: Next major war involving UK against a super power ?

1
The Countdown begins. on 07:08 - Jul 4 with 759 viewspeenemunde

The Countdown begins. on 07:03 - Jul 4 by Gowerjack

Is this too difficult a question ?

Come on Unicorn fans give it a go..


How about the law that allows eu fishing boats to fish in UK waters.
1
The Countdown begins. on 07:31 - Jul 4 with 748 viewsJango

The Countdown begins. on 21:55 - Jul 3 by Gowerjack

They can't answer that question for fairly obvious reasons.


Let's see how they get on with this one instead...

What European Law are you most looking forward to being lifted on the Glorious Day ?


I’ll give you one before I shoot to work.

The current human rights act and replace it with our own.

The HRA enshrines into British law the European Convention on Human Rights, a wide ranging document that protects the right to a private life, to personal liberty and to a free trial among other principles.
The Act also allows EU judges to overrule UK courts. Migrants and terrorists have used the HRA to remain in the UK after they have been handed deportation notices, arguing that deportation would be against their human rights.
0
The Countdown begins. on 07:53 - Jul 4 with 735 viewsoh_tommy_tommy

The Countdown begins. on 23:21 - Jul 3 by pikeypaul

That does give us a clue to the types you socialise with.

269 AFLI

SIUYRL


I can’t find the time to socialise with everyone I know


TAS
DAF

Poll: DO you support the uk getting involved in Syria

0
The Countdown begins. on 08:00 - Jul 4 with 731 viewspikeypaul

The Countdown begins. on 07:53 - Jul 4 by oh_tommy_tommy

I can’t find the time to socialise with everyone I know


TAS
DAF


Thank god for that.

268 AFLI

SIUYRL

🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧
Poll: Next major war involving UK against a super power ?

1
The Countdown begins. on 08:06 - Jul 4 with 725 viewsvetchonian

The Countdown begins. on 07:07 - Jul 4 by peenemunde

How about the law that gives European Union citizens the same rights to work and live in the UK.


So immigration not an issue then?

Still no list ot explanation as to how we will be better off in 268 days time though

Poll: Will CCFC win a game this season?

0

The Countdown begins. on 08:35 - Jul 4 with 710 viewswestside

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/04/brexit-greatest-negative-impact

brexit not good for wales
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The Countdown begins. on 08:52 - Jul 4 with 696 viewssherpajacob

The Countdown begins. on 07:31 - Jul 4 by Jango

I’ll give you one before I shoot to work.

The current human rights act and replace it with our own.

The HRA enshrines into British law the European Convention on Human Rights, a wide ranging document that protects the right to a private life, to personal liberty and to a free trial among other principles.
The Act also allows EU judges to overrule UK courts. Migrants and terrorists have used the HRA to remain in the UK after they have been handed deportation notices, arguing that deportation would be against their human rights.


You do realise the ECHR is not an EU document and actually predates the treaty of Rome.

The UK was the driving force behind the ECHR.

It's almost like you're quoting BNP / free Tommy Robinson propaganda ? Rather than learning the facts.

I hesitate to call brexiteers stupid, but you don't half make it easy.

Poll: Your favourite ever Swans shirt sponsor?

0
The Countdown begins. on 08:59 - Jul 4 with 684 viewssherpajacob

The Countdown begins. on 07:07 - Jul 4 by peenemunde

How about the law that gives European Union citizens the same rights to work and live in the UK.


How about the EU law that allows the UK to restrict EU citizens to those that have employment or insurance and financial means to support themselves, if staying longer than 3 months.

The EU law the UK chose not to implement.

Yet according to some we don't have control over these EU laws.

Poll: Your favourite ever Swans shirt sponsor?

1
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The Countdown begins. on 09:00 - Jul 4 with 678 viewspeenemunde

The Countdown begins. on 08:06 - Jul 4 by vetchonian

So immigration not an issue then?

Still no list ot explanation as to how we will be better off in 268 days time though


Of course it is my answer was to gower jack and you need to see it in that context.
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The Countdown begins. on 09:04 - Jul 4 with 677 viewssherpajacob

The Countdown begins. on 07:07 - Jul 4 by peenemunde

How about the law that gives European Union citizens the same rights to work and live in the UK.


That would be the law that allows UK citizens to live and work in 27 EU countries.

Seems like a law worth keeping to me.

Particularly as its the law that allows my Dutch friend to teach at the university of Wales, let's my polish friend work at my son's school and allowed the Hungarian doctor who stitched me back together to practice in the UK.

Poll: Your favourite ever Swans shirt sponsor?

0
The Countdown begins. on 09:17 - Jul 4 with 661 viewspeenemunde

The Countdown begins. on 09:04 - Jul 4 by sherpajacob

That would be the law that allows UK citizens to live and work in 27 EU countries.

Seems like a law worth keeping to me.

Particularly as its the law that allows my Dutch friend to teach at the university of Wales, let's my polish friend work at my son's school and allowed the Hungarian doctor who stitched me back together to practice in the UK.


British workers should have priority in the UK.
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The Countdown begins. on 10:06 - Jul 4 with 619 viewsJango

The Countdown begins. on 08:52 - Jul 4 by sherpajacob

You do realise the ECHR is not an EU document and actually predates the treaty of Rome.

The UK was the driving force behind the ECHR.

It's almost like you're quoting BNP / free Tommy Robinson propaganda ? Rather than learning the facts.

I hesitate to call brexiteers stupid, but you don't half make it easy.


You’re going back 50 years though. A hell of a lot has changed since then unless you’re unaware. Currently being signed up to the ECHR is a condition of EU membership meaning everything I’ve said above still stands. You don’t hesitate to call people stupid yet you do it often, that’s quite stupid.
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The Countdown begins. on 10:20 - Jul 4 with 613 viewsLeonWasGod

The Countdown begins. on 10:06 - Jul 4 by Jango

You’re going back 50 years though. A hell of a lot has changed since then unless you’re unaware. Currently being signed up to the ECHR is a condition of EU membership meaning everything I’ve said above still stands. You don’t hesitate to call people stupid yet you do it often, that’s quite stupid.


But coming out of the EU does not automatically mean will come out of the Council of Europe and European Convention on Human Rights. We may or we may not, but it's a separate issue to Brexit.

If we were to repeal the Human Rights Act, the next question will be how. The 'Henry VIII clauses' in the Withdrawal Bill would make it possible for ministers to change the law without recourse to parliament. This authoritarian approach would be less democratic than now: a direct attack on our democratic freedoms. In other words it would be the opposite of what the Brexiterrs claim they want in 'taking back control'.

MPs and human rights organisations have raised concerns over the impacts of all this on our human rights and democratic freedoms.
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The Countdown begins. on 11:36 - Jul 4 with 596 viewslonglostjack

The Countdown begins. on 08:59 - Jul 4 by sherpajacob

How about the EU law that allows the UK to restrict EU citizens to those that have employment or insurance and financial means to support themselves, if staying longer than 3 months.

The EU law the UK chose not to implement.

Yet according to some we don't have control over these EU laws.


In Germany people arriving from other EU countries are unable to claim benefits until they have been resident for 5 years. The Brexiteers like simple “truths” though. They find it difficult to deal with complexity. Much easier to blame the EU for everything.

Poll: Have our US owners improved Swansea City Football Club?

1

The Countdown begins. on 11:46 - Jul 4 with 593 viewsKerouac

For those feigning ignorance to the arguments for Brexit (where were you during the referendum campaign and the year since?), have a look at this site;

https://briefingsforbrexit.com/

...the best arguments FOR Brexit can all be found on there, there are plenty of facts and figures (check out the article: Customs Costs Post-Brexit. Long Version. Graham Gudgin and John Mills...for a complete destruction of HMRC's ludicrous £20bn figure)

Now I know us Brexiteers are all knuckle dragging, shiit kicking, "chavs" (who should have the vote taken off us)...but I think you will find some of the contributors to that site can read, write, hold down respectable jobs and even have a bath on Sundays.

Poll: Who would you most like to see banned?

1

The Countdown begins. on 11:53 - Jul 4 with 583 viewsmoonie

Good post K.

I voted remain and Inwint be labelled brexitee,nor anything else .
Someone called me a middle class Kunt on here once . Never been so offended since someone suggested I was working class

Let's just say I'm fearful.

You do not know what will happen

I don't like the unknown,possibly because of being locked in the coalshed by my mother .
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The Countdown begins. on 12:18 - Jul 4 with 574 viewsHighjack

The Countdown begins. on 19:57 - Jul 3 by oh_tommy_tommy

The majority I know who voted leave Was to “keep the darkies out”

“Kick the poles out” who take all our jobs
Send the illegals home

And close the borders .


and give all the monies to the NHS


You need to stop spending so much time with open racists then. If you didn’t make that up of course.

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Poll: What’s your favourite crock?

1
The Countdown begins. on 12:26 - Jul 4 with 567 viewspeenemunde

The Countdown begins. on 12:18 - Jul 4 by Highjack

You need to stop spending so much time with open racists then. If you didn’t make that up of course.


Of course he made it up....it’s what they do.
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The Countdown begins. on 12:34 - Jul 4 with 562 viewsthe_oracle

The Countdown begins. on 09:17 - Jul 4 by peenemunde

British workers should have priority in the UK.


So the unskilled British worker should have priority for these skilled jobs?
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The Countdown begins. on 12:49 - Jul 4 with 547 viewspeenemunde

The Countdown begins. on 12:34 - Jul 4 by the_oracle

So the unskilled British worker should have priority for these skilled jobs?


Where have i said that.
Skilled British workers for skilled jobs in the UK.
There have been plenty that have lost out to foreign workers over the last 15 years or so.
I should know as I work with these guys daily.
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The Countdown begins. on 13:14 - Jul 4 with 524 viewsJango

The Countdown begins. on 12:34 - Jul 4 by the_oracle

So the unskilled British worker should have priority for these skilled jobs?


Not at all, but skilled British workers shouldn’t be getting undercut and losing work to skilled workers from other countries. British work should be for British people unless there’s a shortage. Please don’t tell me I’m wrong on this subject because it’s something we put up with in my industry on a weekly basis. If you knew as many skilled tradesmen as me that are looking for work while there’s hundreds of Portuguese/polish/Romanians etc doing their work for cheap labour you’d maybe understand.
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The Countdown begins. on 13:20 - Jul 4 with 521 viewsKerouac

The Government should ignore the special pleading from business by John Longworth



Written by John Longworth


"If we were to believe the so-called voice of business, the world would be flat and the UK about to fall off the edge on Brexit day. The recent manifestation of “Project Fear” mark III , clearly a blatant attempt to frustrate and stop Brexit by organisations and businesses which have openly declared their opposition to it, is a shocking, anti-democratic intervention in the body politic.
Some simple facts should be noted when weighing the narrow self-interest on which these interventions are based.
Only 8% of UK businesses export to the EU. These exports represent just 13% of the economy. In fact, 17% of the economy is related to exports to the rest of the world and 70% is domestic. Even a so-called ‘hard’ Brexit – which is actually global trade on World Trade Organisation (WTO) terms – would have only a marginal (if any) impact on exports to the EU, while it would considerably boost the 87% of the economy not related to the EU.
As sterling is at a more competitive rate than it was on referendum day, the impact of any tariffs applied to British goods going to the EU has already been more than eliminated. Non-tariff barriers will be minimal given the WTO export systems – only 2% of goods are checked at borders worldwide and the majority of imports into the EU come from countries which are not EU members and do not have any trade arrangement with the EU.
Economists for Free Trade (EFT) calculate that a WTO global trade Brexit will boost the economy by around 7% of GDP, increasing our growth rate by a third every year for fifteen years.
All of this is dependent on “actual” Brexit. That is taking control of our money (including trade), our laws (including jurisdiction) and our borders (including immigration). Anything less is not Brexit and this was made clear during the referendum campaign, although of course some people were not listening.
So why are the organisations and businesses concerned voicing opposition?
Corporations do not like change. Change costs them money but, more importantly, upsets the cosy system they have stitched up for themselves. In particular, multi-nationals which have no allegiance to any peoples see it as a down side. They like to segment markets, produce cheaply and sell expensively. They like regulation as they can handle it and it creates barriers to the entry of competition. They hate creative disruption as this enables challengers to emerge. Their primary concern is executive bonuses and shareholder return (perversely, in that order). They tend towards monopolistic behaviour and the maximisation of margins. They do not like competition and welcome the anti-competitive, protectionism of the EU Customs Union, surrounded by a wall of tariffs and standards paid for by the consumers of the EU.
The organisations who represent them are even worse, as they also receive EU funding (paid for by British tax payers). Let us look at them. The greatest enemy of Brexit, the CBI, which has been consistently wrong about most economic and political issues in the last seventy years, is determined to destroy Brexit.
When repeatedly asked at a House of Commons Committee how many full members the CBI has, the head of the organisation, Caroline Fairbairn, refused to answer. I know because I was there giving evidence, me being the only pro-enterprise, free trader present (the other two compatriots were the CBI and the TUC). The reason she refused to answer is that the CBI has around 2,500 full members, not the 190,000 they claim. These policy-making, policy committee-dominating members are large multi-nationals, often foreign-owned. The CBI is a well-funded “think tank” of officials, rather like the pro-Remain civil service, dominated by multi-nationals with narrow vested interests and part-funded by the EU.
The second most prominent business group, the British Chambers of Commerce (BCC) consists of local Chambers which are themselves made up of secretariats and local business members. They have around 60,000 members. Some of the Chambers are dominated by foreign multi-nationals eg Airbus, Nissan etc and some receive EU funding. Many have public sector members and they receive local and national government funding. They also profit substantially from export documentation.
Nevertheless, they do carry out surveys of their business members. At the beginning of the referendum campaign, such a survey showed a majority in favour of Remaining in the EU, but with over 40% wanting to Leave. Amongst those surveyed, there was a disproportionately high number of exporters, especially to the EU. In the weeks running up to the referendum, a stratified sample survey was undertaken. It found that the majority in favour of Remain existed only amongst businesses that exported only to the EU. Amongst businesses that exported outside the EU or which operated only in the domestic market, there was a majority in favour of Leaving. In the wider business community, those two groups represent 87% of the UK economy. The survey has never been repeated – perhaps an inconvenient truth?
The other big trade group is the Federation of Small Businesses. They claim to have 250,000 members. The only survey they carried out during the referendum campaign showed a narrow majority (a few percent) in favour of Remain. Since then a senior person in the organisation has said to me that if it were repeated now, they would expect a significant majority in favour of Leave. It has not been repeated.
All the other groups are minnows. The Institute of Directors has now only around 30,000 individuals (as opposed to businesses) who are members, many being middle-ranking managers of big corporates. The Engineering Employers Federation has few thousand in a sector dominated by foreign-owned multinationals, we having sold off the “family silver” of the economy to the benefit of the “City boys” but to the significant disbenefit of the UK current account balance.
The significance of all this in the Brexit debate is that the combined, claimed membership of these organisations – even if it were true – would amount to less than one in five UK businesses, as most businesses are not members of any of the organisations. There is also considerable overlap in the membership. Furthermore, a significant proportion of those who are members support leaving the EU.
So much for the voice of business.
By contrast, 17.4 million people voted for Brexit – the largest plebiscite in history. Had it been a general election, two thirds of UK parliamentary constituencies voted for Brexit and three quarters of those in England and Wales. Had “Leave” been a political party, it would have won an overwhelming majority in Parliament.
At the last election 85% of the electorate voted for parties which claimed in their manifestos to support leaving the EU. The ruling Conservative Party made it clear that this means leaving the Single Market (SM), Customs Union (CU) and the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice (ECJ). The Labour Party also said this at the time.
Parliament has voted overwhelmingly for Article 50 and has voted in favour of the EU Withdrawal Bill, which is now enacted.
The Government should ignore the special pleading of business based on the narrow vested interests of a powerful group, which represent a small part of our economy and are massively overstating their case in the face of – and with intent of – undermining democracy. Not to do so would make our democratic system little better than that of Russia.
The only legitimate complaint of business is that of continued uncertainty. In order to resolve this, the UK Government should declare now that we will move to WTO global trade arrangements from March 2019 – without a transition period and without paying a leaving bill – thus providing in one fell swoop absolute certainty."

Poll: Who would you most like to see banned?

1
The Countdown begins. on 13:36 - Jul 4 with 508 viewsvetchonian

The Countdown begins. on 11:46 - Jul 4 by Kerouac

For those feigning ignorance to the arguments for Brexit (where were you during the referendum campaign and the year since?), have a look at this site;

https://briefingsforbrexit.com/

...the best arguments FOR Brexit can all be found on there, there are plenty of facts and figures (check out the article: Customs Costs Post-Brexit. Long Version. Graham Gudgin and John Mills...for a complete destruction of HMRC's ludicrous £20bn figure)

Now I know us Brexiteers are all knuckle dragging, shiit kicking, "chavs" (who should have the vote taken off us)...but I think you will find some of the contributors to that site can read, write, hold down respectable jobs and even have a bath on Sundays.


Thank you for the link and I am sure such a webiste(s) exist ofr the remain argument too

I didnt want this I wanted to hear from Brexiteers to as what they personally believed were the advantages of Brexit....why they voted ...not the academic claptrap which both sides have produced. I could argue with some of the academic stuff escpecially the one challenging HMRC 's over estimating the costs of duties...given that the academic focuses on container loads....not all traffic will be in that form...but thats by the by...the same could be said for some of the remainers academics publications.

I wanted the ordinary man to explain what were the "perceived riches" to be gained. I know many Brexiteers...and they certainly do not match the description you give..and I have had many a sensible debate over things like not wanting a federal Europe,the so called saving of the payments to the EU, regaining control of the country.....though we still could have control despite being "under EU law" as there is legislation we could introduce oursleves and of course many discuss immigration...but yet that is just the media propagand!

Yet in over 24 hours no one has come on here and explained anything....you offer the website...others have answered Gower Jack with a coupe of laws whihc will dissapear and that has flaws....so thanks for your efforts K but it doesnt answer my question.
Personally I fear we have more to lose than gain but hen thats my personal opinion...the problem is no one really knows and that is what is scary.....do we face armageddon,status quo or shangri la?
The bottom line is it does look like we will be hit in our pockets,it may not be so easy to hop over to Europe for a holiday short break or business trip...that is if there is any business being done between us and EU. The equivalent of an ESTA to obtain..queing in the non EU country lpassport lane...forms to fill in
What about all those expats who have settled in Spain,France and Italy including our own Pegojack?
I have stated here previouslly I do not believe Wales will benefit from any monies the Government will "save" from no longer contributing to the EU...it will all kept allocated to the SOuth East and maybe the Midlands....the valleys will fall back to how things were in the 1920s....especially if an exodus of indusrty takes place I could go on but then these are my opinions based on some fact..but as I said the scary thing is nobody knows..more worringly those who are responsible for bring about the exuction of our countries momentous decision to jump ship have no clue either!
MAny say well the economy didnt go pear shaped after the vote...well it has slowed and guess what Brexit hasnt actuallt happened yet...267.5 days to go ..it will be interesting to see the state of the markets,the value of the pound,growth statistics,amd unemployment stats in 365 days and 730 days time....I really hope I am proved to be wrong.....

Poll: Will CCFC win a game this season?

1
The Countdown begins. on 13:49 - Jul 4 with 489 viewsthe_oracle

The Countdown begins. on 13:14 - Jul 4 by Jango

Not at all, but skilled British workers shouldn’t be getting undercut and losing work to skilled workers from other countries. British work should be for British people unless there’s a shortage. Please don’t tell me I’m wrong on this subject because it’s something we put up with in my industry on a weekly basis. If you knew as many skilled tradesmen as me that are looking for work while there’s hundreds of Portuguese/polish/Romanians etc doing their work for cheap labour you’d maybe understand.


BBC Wales news today. Shortage of medical and nursing staff across the NHS in Wales. They cannot afford to lose any EU staff. Who is going to replace them or fill these vacancies once free movement is over?
0
The Countdown begins. on 14:01 - Jul 4 with 483 viewsHighjack

The Countdown begins. on 13:36 - Jul 4 by vetchonian

Thank you for the link and I am sure such a webiste(s) exist ofr the remain argument too

I didnt want this I wanted to hear from Brexiteers to as what they personally believed were the advantages of Brexit....why they voted ...not the academic claptrap which both sides have produced. I could argue with some of the academic stuff escpecially the one challenging HMRC 's over estimating the costs of duties...given that the academic focuses on container loads....not all traffic will be in that form...but thats by the by...the same could be said for some of the remainers academics publications.

I wanted the ordinary man to explain what were the "perceived riches" to be gained. I know many Brexiteers...and they certainly do not match the description you give..and I have had many a sensible debate over things like not wanting a federal Europe,the so called saving of the payments to the EU, regaining control of the country.....though we still could have control despite being "under EU law" as there is legislation we could introduce oursleves and of course many discuss immigration...but yet that is just the media propagand!

Yet in over 24 hours no one has come on here and explained anything....you offer the website...others have answered Gower Jack with a coupe of laws whihc will dissapear and that has flaws....so thanks for your efforts K but it doesnt answer my question.
Personally I fear we have more to lose than gain but hen thats my personal opinion...the problem is no one really knows and that is what is scary.....do we face armageddon,status quo or shangri la?
The bottom line is it does look like we will be hit in our pockets,it may not be so easy to hop over to Europe for a holiday short break or business trip...that is if there is any business being done between us and EU. The equivalent of an ESTA to obtain..queing in the non EU country lpassport lane...forms to fill in
What about all those expats who have settled in Spain,France and Italy including our own Pegojack?
I have stated here previouslly I do not believe Wales will benefit from any monies the Government will "save" from no longer contributing to the EU...it will all kept allocated to the SOuth East and maybe the Midlands....the valleys will fall back to how things were in the 1920s....especially if an exodus of indusrty takes place I could go on but then these are my opinions based on some fact..but as I said the scary thing is nobody knows..more worringly those who are responsible for bring about the exuction of our countries momentous decision to jump ship have no clue either!
MAny say well the economy didnt go pear shaped after the vote...well it has slowed and guess what Brexit hasnt actuallt happened yet...267.5 days to go ..it will be interesting to see the state of the markets,the value of the pound,growth statistics,amd unemployment stats in 365 days and 730 days time....I really hope I am proved to be wrong.....


The main reasons I voted leave was because of the anti democratic nature of the EU where huge swathes of power lies with 28 unaccountable, unelected, unremovable, virtually anonymous individuals. They think of the citizens of Europe as consumers and commodities rather than people. They ignore or try to influence national governments, elections and referendums. There is a black hole of trillions of money that nobody knows where it’s gone (huge levels of corruption within the EU made easy by lack of transparency and unaccountability)

They exist solely to serve the interests of themselves, huge business and international finance. That is their primary concern. Voters are just an irritant to them.

Their treatment of countries such as Greece show their loyalties lie with the banks, not with the people.

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Poll: What’s your favourite crock?

1
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