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The Countdown begins. 23:28 - Nov 10 with 129993 viewspikeypaul



https://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20190329T23&p0=1336&msg=Democr

1:19 pm today was the exact mid point from when the result that the Great British public had decided to leave the EU and the time 11pm March 29th 2019 that Democracy will be delivered.

Happy days.
[Post edited 25 Jun 17:01]

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The Countdown begins. on 13:52 - Jul 8 with 611 viewsLeonWasGod

The Countdown begins. on 12:44 - Jul 8 by Kerouac

...and this is what a grown up sounds like;



Why I have decided to contribute to BriefingsforBrexit – Prof Robert Rowthorn

3 months agoby Robert Rowthorn 1,890 Views
prof robert rowthorn contribute
robert rowthorn 150x150
Written by Robert Rowthorn
Professor Robert Rowthorn explains what persuaded him to move from a position of neutrality on Brexit to one of support. He believes that the negative economic forecasts for Brexit published by the Treasury and other are exaggerated, and says that there is now no going back. The task now is to get a good deal for the UK.

I abstained in the EU referendum. Well, not exactly. Before the referendum my wife and I discussed for weeks which way to vote but were unable to make up our minds. Since there was no provision in the referendum for a formal abstention, we decided to vote on opposite sides. In this way we fulfilled our duty as citizens to vote but without affecting the outcome. I voted Leave and my wife voted Remain but I would have been quite happy to have switched places.

For me, the arguments in favour of Leave were and still are mainly political. The UK has a long and proud history of parliamentary democracy. Since joining, we have ceded many of our law-making powers to the EU, thereby diminishing the role of Parliament and undermining democratic control. It has been a constant struggle to keep the EU at bay and prevent further encroachment on our sovereignty. Leaving the EU would reverse this process and allow us to “take back control”. However, the resulting benefits should not be exaggerated. Leaving the EU would not imply complete freedom of action. For example, In the economic sphere, we would be free to cut our own trade deals as Liam Fox endlessly reminds us, but the EU would remain our largest trading partner and our exports to the bloc would still need to conform to EU standards. In the human rights sphere, we would no longer be answerable to the European Court of Justice, but we would still be subject to the occasionally infuriating rulings of the European Court of Human Rights which is not an EU institution. Even where we did acquire genuine freedom of action, there are many areas where we would voluntarily do what previously would have been laid down by an EU directive. But at least it would be our choice.

As I saw them, the economic arguments were on balance against Leave. I was unimpressed by the hype surrounding our freedom to negotiate our own trade deals and to sweep away burdensome regulations after we leave the EU. I was also unimpressed by the claim that leaving the EU would save us £350 million a week in payments to Brussels. When the UK rebate and receipts from Brussels are taken into account, the true figure is about half this amount. Of most concern to me was the potential impact on our exports if the EU decided to punish the UK for leaving by forcing us to trade under WTO rules. I thought the loss could be serious although not as large as the Treasury report on the subject claimed.

A hot topic during the run-up to the referendum was immigration. The evidence regarding the impact of EU immigration on the UK is mixed. By adding to the total population, the inflow of EU migrants has increased the pressure on public services, housing and infrastructure. Academic evidence suggests that it has also exerted a small downward pressure on the wages of low-skilled workers. On the other hand, since most of the migrants are of working age and find jobs soon after their arrival, immigration from the EU has helped to rejuvenate the population and expand the tax base, thereby generating a small fiscal surplus for the exchequer. Given the small size of most of these effects, the issue of immigration did not figure prominently in my deliberations when I was deciding how to vote in the referendum.

Taking all of these arguments into account, I was on balance uncertain which way to vote. In the end, as explained above, I decided to “abstain”. Why have I now come off the fence and joined BriefingsforBrexit?

The first reason is the publication of a thorough critique by Gudgin, Coutts, Gibson and Buchanan of the Treasury report on the long-run impact of Brexit on the UK economy[1]. Three of these four economists voted Remain, so they cannot be accused of bias in favour of leaving. They argue convincingly that the Treasury economists (and many other researchers) overestimated the harmful impact of Brexit on UK exports. The critics concede that a hard Brexit, involving trade with the EU under WTO rules, would be harmful but their own estimates suggest that its impact would be significantly less than the Treasury report claimed. Forecasting is a hazardous business, so both the original Treasury report and the critique should be taken with a pinch of salt. Even so, after reading the critique I have become less pessimistic about the economic consequences of Brexit. Scandalously, this critique has been almost entirely ignored by the BBC, the Guardian, the Independent, the Financial Times and other supposedly objective media.

Another reason for speaking out in favour of Brexit is that, whatever the merits of the original decision to leave the EU, it would now be a political disaster to abandon Brexit altogether or water down Brexit to the point where the UK remains in the EU in all but name. This would throw British politics into turmoil and leave a legacy of bitterness lasting for decades.

My final reason for speaking out is to help in a small way to strengthen the government’s bargaining position in its negotiations with the EU. The more public support there is for Brexit, the more likely is it that these negotiations will yield an outcome that is favourable to the UK. I think it unlikely that the diehard Remainers will succeed in their noisy campaign to derail Brexit, but their activities can only encourage the EU negotiators to take a hard line. It is therefore imperative that, whatever our original views, those of us who now support Brexit should speak out.

Instead of spending their time in probably futile efforts to derail Brexit, the diehard Remainers should devote their considerable energies and talents to the more useful task of helping to ensure that Britain prospers in a post-Brexit world.


A sensible, well-argued discussion. The first bit is largely factual, so no complaints there.

I struggle with his logic for the economic argument of his move towards a hard Brexit though. Surely if everyone agrees there is going to be an adverse economic impact with a hard brexit, the logical economic case is to have a soft one. Not stick with a hard one just because it *might* not be as bad as some claim, even though it will be worse than currently. That makes no sense.

On the "political disaster" front, he seems to be talking about the UK. It would be politically daft to u-turn with Europe now for sure. Internally in British politics though the disaster seems to have already happened. And the bitterness well-entrenched (certainly amongst the people). I think the boat has already sailed on that one.

But nice to see a well-reasoned arguement for once, even if I'm not fully convinced by it.
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The Countdown begins. on 16:11 - Jul 8 with 557 viewsHighjack

The Countdown begins. on 13:28 - Jul 8 by Kerouac

Spin it how you want to spin it but the uncomfortable facts (for those slinging mud at the character of these Brexiteers "they don't want to take responsibility!" ) are;

- Leadsom ran for leadership
- Gove ran for leadership
- Fox ran for leadership
- Davis has previously ran for leadership and is presently THE BREXIT MINISTER
- Boris wanted leadership and was going to run but was outmanoeuvred by Gove

...Davis has always been anti-EU.
He is a pragmatist though.
What changed was the country moved to his position...hence UKIP were winning EU elections here.


Brexiteers Corbyn and McDonnell are also leading the opposition.

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
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The Countdown begins. on 16:26 - Jul 8 with 542 viewsShaky

The Countdown begins. on 13:52 - Jul 8 by LeonWasGod

A sensible, well-argued discussion. The first bit is largely factual, so no complaints there.

I struggle with his logic for the economic argument of his move towards a hard Brexit though. Surely if everyone agrees there is going to be an adverse economic impact with a hard brexit, the logical economic case is to have a soft one. Not stick with a hard one just because it *might* not be as bad as some claim, even though it will be worse than currently. That makes no sense.

On the "political disaster" front, he seems to be talking about the UK. It would be politically daft to u-turn with Europe now for sure. Internally in British politics though the disaster seems to have already happened. And the bitterness well-entrenched (certainly amongst the people). I think the boat has already sailed on that one.

But nice to see a well-reasoned arguement for once, even if I'm not fully convinced by it.


I looked the guy up; a Marxist economist pushing 80.

No doubt he will be looking forward to a revolutionary dividend, as workers unite in a collective to seize the means of production abandoned by the running dog bourgeois capitalists (Jaguar, Airbus, BMW, etc, etc.) fleeing the forthcoming workers' paradise.

Misology -- It's a bitch
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The Countdown begins. on 16:49 - Jul 8 with 526 viewsKerouac

The Countdown begins. on 10:33 - Jul 6 by LeonWasGod

Hopefully whoever this 'anonymous economist' is will be right. It smacks a bit of the work by Dr Graham Gudgin, certainly the underlying principle that all official (and a lot of unofficial) estimates are wrong by a factor of at least 10. That premise has been widely criticised in the profession apparently for being misleading and based on unrealistic assumptions (like unrestricted, completely frictionless and free global trade from day 1).

Much of the arguments here seem to be based on examples of current agreements in place, e.g the NAFTA trade agreement that covers the US, Canada and Mexico is sited as one example. That was an idea put forward by Reagan 1979, but it took 9 years for American and Canada to agree and sign the first version. And then another 4 years before the final version involving Mexico was passed through senate.

So 13 years, for 1 agreement. I'd therefore like to see anyone arguing an case based on examples of current agreements being honest with the likely timescales involved. And what happens while we're waiting for these agreements to be set up?
[Post edited 6 Jul 10:36]


"That premise has been widely criticised in the profession apparently for being misleading and based on unrealistic assumptions (like unrestricted, completely frictionless and free global trade from day 1). "

1 - Who "in the profession" is criticising Gudgin and what is their reasoning? (details)

2 - Nobody has ever claimed that we would have unrestricted, completely frictionless free global trade from day 1 have they? Be honest.
Brexiteers have only ever claimed that striking free-trade deals with partners would make more sense for the UK and is achievable (but only outside the EU).

There have been many countries stating that they would like a free-trade deal with the UK since the referendum haven't there?
There is no reason why we can't achieve many mutually beneficial free-trade deals outside the EU if there is the political will is there?

If the EU were behaving rationally they would want a free trade deal also....otherwise we will end up importing a lot more goods from their competitors outside the EU.


"Much of the arguments here seem to be based on examples of current agreements in place, e.g the NAFTA trade agreement that covers the US, Canada and Mexico is sited as one example. That was an idea put forward by Reagan 1979, but it took 9 years for American and Canada to agree and sign the first version. And then another 4 years before the final version involving Mexico was passed through senate. "

1 - The point that was made was that there is no reason why complex supply chains can't exist outside of the EU when the correct trade deals are in place.
The EU and the 'Remainers' argue that this is possible only within the Single Market and Customs Union.
It isn't.


"So 13 years, for 1 agreement. I'd therefore like to see anyone arguing an case based on examples of current agreements being honest with the likely timescales involved. And what happens while we're waiting for these agreements to be set up?"

Have a look here; http://lawyersforbritain.org/brexit-legal-guide/wto-and-international-trade/brex

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The Countdown begins. on 17:15 - Jul 8 with 508 viewsShaky

Why does Arron Banks' story about meeting with the Russians keep changing?
+++++++++++++++++++++
Revealed: Arron Banks met Russian ambassador 11 times
The Leave.EU founder was offered lucrative deals in talks with the envoy
By Carole Cadwalladr

Sun 8 Jul 2018 06.00 BST

Brexit’s biggest funder, Arron Banks, met the Russian ambassador at least 11 times in the run-up to the EU referendum and in the two months beyond, documents seen by the Observer suggest – seven more times than he has admitted. The same documents suggest the Russian embassy extended a further four invitations but it is not known if they were accepted.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jul/08/arron-banks-met-russian-ambassad
[Post edited 8 Jul 17:20]

Misology -- It's a bitch
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The Countdown begins. on 18:02 - Jul 8 with 486 viewsShaky

Speaking of the devil, here's his paid for puppet arguing that Trump should walk away from Nato.

Now who might benefit from that?


Misology -- It's a bitch
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The Countdown begins. on 18:05 - Jul 8 with 484 viewsShaky

[Post edited 8 Jul 18:07]

Misology -- It's a bitch
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The Countdown begins. on 18:29 - Jul 8 with 456 viewsKerouac

The Countdown begins. on 00:54 - Jul 8 by pikeypaul

The Remoaner Guardian ?

By feck you are desperate.


Can you believe the immature shite that is printed in that "newspaper"?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/24/is-it-ok-to-be-friends-wit
[Post edited 8 Jul 18:30]

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The Countdown begins. on 20:11 - Jul 8 with 411 viewsLeonWasGod

The Countdown begins. on 16:49 - Jul 8 by Kerouac

"That premise has been widely criticised in the profession apparently for being misleading and based on unrealistic assumptions (like unrestricted, completely frictionless and free global trade from day 1). "

1 - Who "in the profession" is criticising Gudgin and what is their reasoning? (details)

2 - Nobody has ever claimed that we would have unrestricted, completely frictionless free global trade from day 1 have they? Be honest.
Brexiteers have only ever claimed that striking free-trade deals with partners would make more sense for the UK and is achievable (but only outside the EU).

There have been many countries stating that they would like a free-trade deal with the UK since the referendum haven't there?
There is no reason why we can't achieve many mutually beneficial free-trade deals outside the EU if there is the political will is there?

If the EU were behaving rationally they would want a free trade deal also....otherwise we will end up importing a lot more goods from their competitors outside the EU.


"Much of the arguments here seem to be based on examples of current agreements in place, e.g the NAFTA trade agreement that covers the US, Canada and Mexico is sited as one example. That was an idea put forward by Reagan 1979, but it took 9 years for American and Canada to agree and sign the first version. And then another 4 years before the final version involving Mexico was passed through senate. "

1 - The point that was made was that there is no reason why complex supply chains can't exist outside of the EU when the correct trade deals are in place.
The EU and the 'Remainers' argue that this is possible only within the Single Market and Customs Union.
It isn't.


"So 13 years, for 1 agreement. I'd therefore like to see anyone arguing an case based on examples of current agreements being honest with the likely timescales involved. And what happens while we're waiting for these agreements to be set up?"

Have a look here; http://lawyersforbritain.org/brexit-legal-guide/wto-and-international-trade/brex


1. I’m not an economist and haven’t seen the report, so I can only go on what’s reported, such as this https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexiteers-favoured-economic-st (I know the Independent is very biased).

As I said it’s been criticised by other economists. The other point here, is that even Gudgin’s report shows a negative economic impact. Arguing who’s likely to be more right is largely pointless. Both sides predict things will get worse. That’s fine if it’s a price worth paying, but i’ve seen nothing to suggest it is. I don’t know what benefits that buys us.

2. I think Gudgin’s assumptions included free global trade, so by definition that would be from day 1. I could well be wrong on that and I can’t remember where I read it.

3. Re. Future trade deals. It’s all well and good Lawyers for Brexit saying we can negotiate new deals now, but have we? Two years down the line how many deals have we agreed that will come into force as soon as we leave? As far as I’m aware it’s a big fat 0. Why? If it’s so easy where is the progress? I’m not saying I disagree. If we can negotiate deals let’s get on with it.

The EU do want a free trade deal. But that has to be tied to free movement of goids and people. We’ve known that all along.
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The Countdown begins. on 20:41 - Jul 8 with 397 viewsHumpty

The Countdown begins. on 17:15 - Jul 8 by Shaky

Why does Arron Banks' story about meeting with the Russians keep changing?
+++++++++++++++++++++
Revealed: Arron Banks met Russian ambassador 11 times
The Leave.EU founder was offered lucrative deals in talks with the envoy
By Carole Cadwalladr

Sun 8 Jul 2018 06.00 BST

Brexit’s biggest funder, Arron Banks, met the Russian ambassador at least 11 times in the run-up to the EU referendum and in the two months beyond, documents seen by the Observer suggest – seven more times than he has admitted. The same documents suggest the Russian embassy extended a further four invitations but it is not known if they were accepted.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jul/08/arron-banks-met-russian-ambassad
[Post edited 8 Jul 17:20]


Why does Arron Banks' story about meeting with the Russians keep changing?

Because he doesn't want us to know he's been meeting with Russians.

Just like all the people in Trump's campaign didn't want us to know they'd been meeting with Russians.

You have to ask yourself why they don't want us to know.
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The Countdown begins. on 21:06 - Jul 8 with 380 viewsLeonWasGod

The Countdown begins. on 18:29 - Jul 8 by Kerouac

Can you believe the immature shite that is printed in that "newspaper"?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/24/is-it-ok-to-be-friends-wit
[Post edited 8 Jul 18:30]


I used to think the Guardian was a load of old pompous, self-important shite for bearded tree-huggers (and that’s just the women). But as I ease into middle age I find it one of the more interesting reads in the press. Yes it’s biased, but I’m able to see that and make allowances for it (I’m certainly no Labour supporter, for example). I also understand the difference between ‘news’ and ‘comment’, so I can also make allowances for that and understand it’s just a viewpoint.

Their Long Read is well worth a look. Here’s the latest one, critiquing Soros who is supposed to be a poster boy of the Remoaners. https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/jul/06/the-george-soros-philosophy-and-its

Anyway, immature it isn’t compared to the shite peddled by the Star, Sun, Mirror, Mail, Express and Independent. Even the FT is more biased towards Brexit imo.

And how can anyone view their series on knife crime “immature shite”? https://www.theguardian.com/membership/2018/jun/21/radical-lessons-knife-crime-b

I’d say not being willing to listen with an open mind is far more immature than being prepared to go underground to try and find why so many of our youngsters think it’s ok to kill someone with a knife. Maybe I’m just out of touch though .
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The Countdown begins. on 23:12 - Jul 8 with 327 viewsKerouac

The Countdown begins. on 21:06 - Jul 8 by LeonWasGod

I used to think the Guardian was a load of old pompous, self-important shite for bearded tree-huggers (and that’s just the women). But as I ease into middle age I find it one of the more interesting reads in the press. Yes it’s biased, but I’m able to see that and make allowances for it (I’m certainly no Labour supporter, for example). I also understand the difference between ‘news’ and ‘comment’, so I can also make allowances for that and understand it’s just a viewpoint.

Their Long Read is well worth a look. Here’s the latest one, critiquing Soros who is supposed to be a poster boy of the Remoaners. https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/jul/06/the-george-soros-philosophy-and-its

Anyway, immature it isn’t compared to the shite peddled by the Star, Sun, Mirror, Mail, Express and Independent. Even the FT is more biased towards Brexit imo.

And how can anyone view their series on knife crime “immature shite”? https://www.theguardian.com/membership/2018/jun/21/radical-lessons-knife-crime-b

I’d say not being willing to listen with an open mind is far more immature than being prepared to go underground to try and find why so many of our youngsters think it’s ok to kill someone with a knife. Maybe I’m just out of touch though .


This line from 'Yes Minister' holds true today I reckon;

Jim Hacker:

"Don't tell me about the press. I know exactly who reads the papers.
The Daily Mirror is read by people who think they run the country;
The Guardian is read by people who think they ought to run the country;
The Times is read by the people who actually do run the country;
the Daily Mail is read by the wives of the people who run the country;
the Financial Times is read by people who own the country;
the Morning Star is read by people who think the country ought to be run by another country,
and the Daily Telegraph is read by people who think it is."


Sir Humphrey:

"Prime Minister, what about the people who read The Sun?"

Bernard:

"Sun readers don't care who runs the country, as long as she's got big tits."





I read it (I read them all on and off) occasionally and yes some of 'The Guardian' is good, but equally I find that it contains the most ludicrous articles in print today;

- https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/reduce-pets-sustainable-future-

- https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/jan/14/can-foie-gras-ever-be-ethic

- https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/jan/25/quinoa-good-evil-complicated

- https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/jun/14/men-dont-understand-lesbia

- https://www.theguardian.com/stage/theatreblog/2011/oct/07/riot-community-theatre

- https://jobs.theguardian.com/article/impostor-syndrome-and-how-to-overcome-it-/?

- https://www.theguardian.com/stage/theatreblog/2017/jun/27/diversity-arts-council





....AND It is the most biased "Newspaper" out there, by a country mile, and yes I am familiar with the 'Daily Mail'.

The most strange thing about it is the fact that it implores everyone to vote for the British Labour Party...the contents of 'The Guardian' seem designed to exclude the very people the Labour Party needs to vote for them.
In fact, the average Guardian writer openly despises the working class...the white working class at least.

Always makes me chuckle though so I'll probably continue picking it up once a fortnight.

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The Countdown begins. on 23:51 - Jul 8 with 313 viewsHumpty

The Brexit Bulldog has resigned.
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The Countdown begins. on 23:56 - Jul 8 with 308 viewsKerouac

...well that was coming.

May won't last another fortnight I reckon.
General Election on it's way, 'Remainer' purge is likely.

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The Countdown begins. on 00:04 - Jul 9 with 295 viewsKilkennyjack

The Countdown begins. on 23:51 - Jul 8 by Humpty

The Brexit Bulldog has resigned.


Dai Davis - toast.

A man totally shite at his job ....

🇪🇺👍
[Post edited 9 Jul 0:05]

‘Beware of the risen people’ ........🍀🇮🇪 💚 YesCymru 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿

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The Countdown begins. on 05:34 - Jul 9 with 244 viewsKilkennyjack

The Countdown begins. on 00:04 - Jul 9 by Kilkennyjack

Dai Davis - toast.

A man totally shite at his job ....

🇪🇺👍
[Post edited 9 Jul 0:05]



‘Beware of the risen people’ ........🍀🇮🇪 💚 YesCymru 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿

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The Countdown begins. on 05:48 - Jul 9 with 238 viewsoh_tommy_tommy

It’s coming home

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The Countdown begins. on 06:32 - Jul 9 with 219 viewspeenemunde

Well done David Davis.
Don’t let that whore may get with it, bring down the government.
🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧
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The Countdown begins. on 06:55 - Jul 9 with 209 viewsWarwickHunt

The Countdown begins. on 06:32 - Jul 9 by peenemunde

Well done David Davis.
Don’t let that whore may get with it, bring down the government.
🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧


...and put an end to this Brexit fûckwittery.
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The Countdown begins. on 07:10 - Jul 9 with 199 viewspeenemunde

The Countdown begins. on 06:55 - Jul 9 by WarwickHunt

...and put an end to this Brexit fûckwittery.


F*ckwittery ? I didn’t know you spoke Mongolian.
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The Countdown begins. on 07:20 - Jul 9 with 190 viewslonglostjack

The Countdown begins. on 06:55 - Jul 9 by WarwickHunt

...and put an end to this Brexit fûckwittery.


It’s all starting to unravel

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The Countdown begins. on 07:48 - Jul 9 with 175 viewsKerouac

The Countdown begins. on 07:20 - Jul 9 by longlostjack

It’s all starting to unravel


Yes, you are right there.

The 'Remainer' plot to pull the wool over the public's eyes is starting to unravel.

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The Countdown begins. on 07:53 - Jul 9 with 171 viewsWarwickHunt

The Countdown begins. on 07:48 - Jul 9 by Kerouac

Yes, you are right there.

The 'Remainer' plot to pull the wool over the public's eyes is starting to unravel.


1
The Countdown begins. on 08:07 - Jul 9 with 145 viewsKilkennyjack

The Countdown begins. on 06:32 - Jul 9 by peenemunde

Well done David Davis.
Don’t let that whore may get with it, bring down the government.
🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧


She has done you lot like a kipper.

Soft, soft Brexit..... Dai Davis is too dull for the job mun.


No bigger critic of the Maybot than me ....but why what you call any woman a whore. Are you an ISIS lunatic or something ? Not acceptable and i call on you to take it back. Poor.

‘Beware of the risen people’ ........🍀🇮🇪 💚 YesCymru 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿

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The Countdown begins. on 08:07 - Jul 9 with 145 viewsKerouac

The Countdown begins. on 07:53 - Jul 9 by WarwickHunt



Suella Braverman gone now as well.


The government will be brought down.
The government do not have the backing of the public and neither does the Labour Party.
The public back Brexit not remain.
There will be a remainer purge, a Brexit backing Tory government and a 'No Deal' Brexit now.

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