| Done up like Kippers on 15:01 - Dec 5 with 2047 views | Bobby_Fischer |
| Done up like Kippers on 14:56 - Dec 5 by Highjack |
Or give them a referendum on EU membership - problem solved. |
Ireland export more to the EU (excluding the UK) than they do to the UK and the US combined, don't think it would be a good move by them at this moment in time. I think the majority of Irish people would vote remain anyway.
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| Done up like Kippers on 15:46 - Dec 5 with 2018 views | Lohengrin |
| Done up like Kippers on 13:24 - Dec 5 by londonlisa2001 |
To be fair to May, who I agree is utterly useless in most ways, on this issue I have no idea what she could possibly do other than reverse the Brexit decision.
Corbyn would be as bad if not worse. |
I've read Stocker's English Uprising over the last few days, Lisa. Around the start of chapter seven he pronounces that " a mistrust and hatred of elites, fears over immigration and an overall sense of decline propelled the Brexit side to victory." It was a fairly stark moment of clarity set amid two hundred and twenty or so pages of panicked, liberal finger-pointing.
Now IF, and I wouldn't rule anything out, we start to see the slow, awkward process of a Brexit climb-down begin to unfold do you imagine that the groundswell that produced the referendum result will magically dissipate?
What do you think happens next? If millions of working people are effectively told that their voices count for nothing, their hopes and fears count for nothing, THEY ARE NOTHING, and couple that with BBC news footage of currency speculators dancing a celebratory jig in The Square Mile. How is that going to play in the sitting rooms of places like Consett or Gilfach Goch? What comes next? [Post edited 5 Dec 2017 15:55]
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| Done up like Kippers on 16:03 - Dec 5 with 2003 views | sherpajacob |
| Done up like Kippers on 14:56 - Dec 5 by Highjack |
Or give them a referendum on EU membership - problem solved. |
Give all of Ireland a referendum on a United Ireland, simple majority wins. |  |
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| Done up like Kippers on 18:47 - Dec 5 with 1958 views | yescomeon |
| Done up like Kippers on 16:03 - Dec 5 by sherpajacob |
Give all of Ireland a referendum on a United Ireland, simple majority wins. |
Now that would be interesting, I'm sure the north would be better off for being part of the republic but not sure the republic would be better for having the north. I'm think a untied Ireland would win. If we are going to go through with brexit this would suit GB too. |  |
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| Done up like Kippers on 18:49 - Dec 5 with 1955 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Done up like Kippers on 16:03 - Dec 5 by sherpajacob |
Give all of Ireland a referendum on a United Ireland, simple majority wins. |
Perfect.... ☘ï¸ðŸ‡®ðŸ‡ª |  |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Done up like Kippers on 19:10 - Dec 5 with 1937 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Done up like Kippers on 14:48 - Dec 5 by Highjack |
There are many solutions, all of which would be rejected by the EU no matter how reasonable as they want to make this as difficult as possible because they don't want to lose the money we send them and they don't want any other country to leave. Dictatorial to the end. Just the sort of people we want to be tied to forever right? |
Name just one then.
Ignore whether it would be accepted by the EU. Just name one way of solving this one issue.
As I asked a week or so ago. No one has managed to do it yet. |  | | |
| Done up like Kippers on 20:46 - Dec 5 with 1902 views | Highjack |
| Done up like Kippers on 15:01 - Dec 5 by Bobby_Fischer |
Ireland export more to the EU (excluding the UK) than they do to the UK and the US combined, don't think it would be a good move by them at this moment in time. I think the majority of Irish people would vote remain anyway.
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Source - EM Ireland (European Movement)
Who was it on here that said polls are used to influence voting intentions, not measure them? |  |
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| Done up like Kippers on 20:58 - Dec 5 with 1887 views | Highjack |
| Done up like Kippers on 19:10 - Dec 5 by londonlisa2001 |
Name just one then.
Ignore whether it would be accepted by the EU. Just name one way of solving this one issue.
As I asked a week or so ago. No one has managed to do it yet. |
Give Irish passport holders the right to live and work in the UK. UK passport holders can do the same in Ireland. Special trade agreement with Ireland, free movement of Irish produced goods. They get free trade with us, and the rest of the EU. They benefit. The Good Friday agreement stays in place. Everyone benefits because they aren't knocking the shyt out of each other anymore. The border stays essentially as it is.
If it were up to us and Ireland we could sort this out in days. | |
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| Done up like Kippers on 20:58 - Dec 5 with 1887 views | max936 |
May will get the Irish onboard she'll offer them another "incentive" |  |
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| Done up like Kippers on 21:05 - Dec 5 with 1884 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Done up like Kippers on 20:58 - Dec 5 by Highjack |
Give Irish passport holders the right to live and work in the UK. UK passport holders can do the same in Ireland. Special trade agreement with Ireland, free movement of Irish produced goods. They get free trade with us, and the rest of the EU. They benefit. The Good Friday agreement stays in place. Everyone benefits because they aren't knocking the shyt out of each other anymore. The border stays essentially as it is.
If it were up to us and Ireland we could sort this out in days. |
Nope. That's doesn't work.
Because there is no border between Ireland and the rest of the EU for people or the movement of goods so you can't have an independent trade agreement with them.
Try again. | | | |
| Done up like Kippers on 21:13 - Dec 5 with 1872 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Done up like Kippers on 20:58 - Dec 5 by Highjack |
Give Irish passport holders the right to live and work in the UK. UK passport holders can do the same in Ireland. Special trade agreement with Ireland, free movement of Irish produced goods. They get free trade with us, and the rest of the EU. They benefit. The Good Friday agreement stays in place. Everyone benefits because they aren't knocking the shyt out of each other anymore. The border stays essentially as it is.
If it were up to us and Ireland we could sort this out in days. |
Ireland has no power or right to negotiate a unilateral trade deal with the U.K. Your solution is based entirely on the premise that Ireland’s government is willing and/or able to ignore its commitment to the EU. It isn’t. And if course your border arrangements mean that there’s nothing stopping goods and people entering the UK via Ireland.
Also, Irish citizens already have the right to live and work in the U.K., regardless of any EU arrangements. And vice versa. [Post edited 5 Dec 2017 21:21]
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| Done up like Kippers on 21:32 - Dec 5 with 1845 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Done up like Kippers on 19:10 - Dec 5 by londonlisa2001 |
Name just one then.
Ignore whether it would be accepted by the EU. Just name one way of solving this one issue.
As I asked a week or so ago. No one has managed to do it yet. |
Keep the north of Ireland in both the Single Market and Customs union.
Do same from rest of UK.
Bingo - a soft Brexit from EU.
Still totally pointless and moronic, but it may address the border question. | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Done up like Kippers on 21:48 - Dec 5 with 1834 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Done up like Kippers on 21:32 - Dec 5 by Kilkennyjack |
Keep the north of Ireland in both the Single Market and Customs union.
Do same from rest of UK.
Bingo - a soft Brexit from EU.
Still totally pointless and moronic, but it may address the border question. |
Yes, obviously that works.
But highjack's starting premise is that only a hard Brexit will do.
Btw - I lean in favour of a United Ireland, but there really is no such place as the North of Ireland unless you mean Donegal. The people who want to remain part of the United Kingdom deserve the same respect as those who wish to be part of the Republic. Until there is a vote it remains Northern Ireland. In my opinion of course. | | | |
| Done up like Kippers on 21:58 - Dec 5 with 1827 views | Lohengrin |
| Done up like Kippers on 21:13 - Dec 5 by exiledclaseboy |
Ireland has no power or right to negotiate a unilateral trade deal with the U.K. Your solution is based entirely on the premise that Ireland’s government is willing and/or able to ignore its commitment to the EU. It isn’t. And if course your border arrangements mean that there’s nothing stopping goods and people entering the UK via Ireland.
Also, Irish citizens already have the right to live and work in the U.K., regardless of any EU arrangements. And vice versa. [Post edited 5 Dec 2017 21:21]
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'Power' and 'Right' have never made for convivial partners, Clase. | |
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| Done up like Kippers on 22:04 - Dec 5 with 1817 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Done up like Kippers on 21:58 - Dec 5 by Lohengrin |
'Power' and 'Right' have never made for convivial partners, Clase. |
Well you can either deal in theory and abstract concepts or you can deal with the cold, hard facts of the situation. The people trying to sort this mess out have to deal with the reality. And I’m not talking about the politicians who have no clue what they’re doing or how to get out of the unholy mess they’ve managed to create for us all. I mean the officials on both sides who are shaking their heads at the whole ridiculous situation and, on our side at least, at the treasonous ineptitude and posturing of their political paymasters. [Post edited 5 Dec 2017 22:05]
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| Done up like Kippers on 22:13 - Dec 5 with 1796 views | Lohengrin |
| Done up like Kippers on 22:04 - Dec 5 by exiledclaseboy |
Well you can either deal in theory and abstract concepts or you can deal with the cold, hard facts of the situation. The people trying to sort this mess out have to deal with the reality. And I’m not talking about the politicians who have no clue what they’re doing or how to get out of the unholy mess they’ve managed to create for us all. I mean the officials on both sides who are shaking their heads at the whole ridiculous situation and, on our side at least, at the treasonous ineptitude and posturing of their political paymasters. [Post edited 5 Dec 2017 22:05]
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I wouldn't let the Brexit shambles blind you to the wider crisis within the EU either. The whole edifice is starting to teeter. | |
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| Done up like Kippers on 22:14 - Dec 5 with 1795 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Done up like Kippers on 15:46 - Dec 5 by Lohengrin |
I've read Stocker's English Uprising over the last few days, Lisa. Around the start of chapter seven he pronounces that " a mistrust and hatred of elites, fears over immigration and an overall sense of decline propelled the Brexit side to victory." It was a fairly stark moment of clarity set amid two hundred and twenty or so pages of panicked, liberal finger-pointing.
Now IF, and I wouldn't rule anything out, we start to see the slow, awkward process of a Brexit climb-down begin to unfold do you imagine that the groundswell that produced the referendum result will magically dissipate?
What do you think happens next? If millions of working people are effectively told that their voices count for nothing, their hopes and fears count for nothing, THEY ARE NOTHING, and couple that with BBC news footage of currency speculators dancing a celebratory jig in The Square Mile. How is that going to play in the sitting rooms of places like Consett or Gilfach Goch? What comes next? [Post edited 5 Dec 2017 15:55]
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I tend to believe that you start to respect those millions of working people and tell them the truth Loh, rather than shower them with platitudes and sound bites.
I personally believe that so called 'ordinary people' have the capacity to understand. I'm utterly fed up with politicians who treat them as though they are imbeciles because they didn't attend a well known fee paying school. | | | |
| Done up like Kippers on 22:19 - Dec 5 with 1790 views | Bobby_Fischer |
| Done up like Kippers on 22:14 - Dec 5 by londonlisa2001 |
I tend to believe that you start to respect those millions of working people and tell them the truth Loh, rather than shower them with platitudes and sound bites.
I personally believe that so called 'ordinary people' have the capacity to understand. I'm utterly fed up with politicians who treat them as though they are imbeciles because they didn't attend a well known fee paying school. |
Exactly, I'm sure most of these ex-mining communities get more funding from the EU than they ever will from Westminster - they are just being lied too. | |
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| Done up like Kippers on 22:23 - Dec 5 with 1786 views | Lohengrin |
| Done up like Kippers on 22:14 - Dec 5 by londonlisa2001 |
I tend to believe that you start to respect those millions of working people and tell them the truth Loh, rather than shower them with platitudes and sound bites.
I personally believe that so called 'ordinary people' have the capacity to understand. I'm utterly fed up with politicians who treat them as though they are imbeciles because they didn't attend a well known fee paying school. |
I couldn't agree more. | |
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| Done up like Kippers on 23:12 - Dec 5 with 1766 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Done up like Kippers on 21:48 - Dec 5 by londonlisa2001 |
Yes, obviously that works.
But highjack's starting premise is that only a hard Brexit will do.
Btw - I lean in favour of a United Ireland, but there really is no such place as the North of Ireland unless you mean Donegal. The people who want to remain part of the United Kingdom deserve the same respect as those who wish to be part of the Republic. Until there is a vote it remains Northern Ireland. In my opinion of course. |
Yes - and as the local people say ‘God made the borders of Ireland, not the English’....
Its the north of Ireland to me until all the people on the island of Ireland get a vote on the matter. No ? I thought not .... | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Done up like Kippers on 15:48 - Dec 6 with 1689 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Done up like Kippers on 23:12 - Dec 5 by Kilkennyjack |
Yes - and as the local people say ‘God made the borders of Ireland, not the English’....
Its the north of Ireland to me until all the people on the island of Ireland get a vote on the matter. No ? I thought not .... |
Well apart from God not making anything of the sort of course, given that the two land masses were quite clearly joined together.
I imagine you don't use the same argument when it comes to Wales and England...
As I've said before, I think it far from certain that the Republic want anything to do with the North, which many of them view as an utter basket case in my experience. | | | |
| Done up like Kippers on 17:56 - Dec 6 with 1648 views | Highjack |
| Done up like Kippers on 21:05 - Dec 5 by londonlisa2001 |
Nope. That's doesn't work.
Because there is no border between Ireland and the rest of the EU for people or the movement of goods so you can't have an independent trade agreement with them.
Try again. |
It would only apply to Irish passport holders and Irish produced goods. So the border would still be there for non Irish and other EU stuff. It's not perfect I admit. But then I'm not an international negotiator. I'm just a wally posting random shyte on a football forum. But even I know very little is impossible in this world. A solution can and will be found with compromise and a bit of creative thinking. | |
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| Done up like Kippers on 19:16 - Dec 6 with 1630 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Done up like Kippers on 17:56 - Dec 6 by Highjack |
It would only apply to Irish passport holders and Irish produced goods. So the border would still be there for non Irish and other EU stuff. It's not perfect I admit. But then I'm not an international negotiator. I'm just a wally posting random shyte on a football forum. But even I know very little is impossible in this world. A solution can and will be found with compromise and a bit of creative thinking. |
You can't come up with a 'solution' that ignores the fact that Ireland is a member of the EU.
They have no desire to leave according to every poll that has been taken there. They understand perfectly on which side their bread is buttered.
And on a practical note, the only way of ensuring that the people 'freely crossing' and goods 'freely crossing' are Irish, would be to have a border... Which means it doesn't work anyway. | | | |
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