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Independent Supporters Group 16:42 - Dec 3 with 18969 viewsPhil_S

OK been some discussion on this but who thinks this is the way to go

Details are really on this thread

https://www.fansnetwork.co.uk/football/swanseacity/forum/213237/who-is-to-blame-

"We are a disgrace to the Premier League" ©oldjack - 25 January 2014 3.48pm #outofmydepth Third recipient of a Planet Swans lifetime achievement award Talking shit since 2001

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Independent Supporters Group on 20:26 - Dec 3 with 1162 viewsRiscaJack

Independent Supporters Group on 20:21 - Dec 3 by monmouth

If it works properly there should be synergy not conflict between the two.

You can float Queenlike on the Trust Board, whilst lighting the blue touch paper on the Militant Wing.


This.

It needs to happen.

JENKINS OUT

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Independent Supporters Group on 20:31 - Dec 3 with 1139 viewsleighton1318

The Trust has the shares and the money. The new group will have neither.

Surely the right tactic is to swamp the Trust, get on the board, etc, even if it takes till the next round of Trust elections. Far more chance to exert influence.
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Independent Supporters Group on 20:39 - Dec 3 with 1091 viewsGaryjack

Independent Supporters Group on 20:31 - Dec 3 by leighton1318

The Trust has the shares and the money. The new group will have neither.

Surely the right tactic is to swamp the Trust, get on the board, etc, even if it takes till the next round of Trust elections. Far more chance to exert influence.


Not the place to discuss tactics Leighton.
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Independent Supporters Group on 20:39 - Dec 3 with 1087 viewsSwanjaxs

Independent Supporters Group on 20:26 - Dec 3 by londonlisa2001

Ive been thinking about this for a couple of hours now.

My thoughts, for what they're worth.

My belief is that the only responsibility of the Trust was to work as best it could towards the principles it sets out in its objectives, namely:

To maintain a professional football club in Swansea;
To bring the football club closer to it’s local community;
To have elected representation on the Board of Swansea City Football Club;
To maintain and increase a stake in the club, in pursuance of the aims above;
To represent the needs and aims of our members at all times;

If, at any point, those objectives became contradictory, then they should be prioritised, with (1) and (2) being the most important.

How it achieved that is a matter of opinion, and has certainly changed over the years.

I don't see anything in those aims which say 'make sure that the Trust never creates waves'. 'Make sure that the Trust never speaks out against the direction the club is taking'. Or anything similar.

Most on here believe that the club is a shambles. It lacks direction, fan engagement, the recruitment is woeful, the manager is floundering, players are needed, the squad is patchy and unbalanced, and we look like we are careering toward the Championship.

If the Trust does not speak out about this, then the first couple of stated Trust objectives are simply not being heeded.

Many on here have been saying for ages that the Trust needs to take action. To launch a PR campaign to explain to the fan base at large exactly what has happened at the club to get us to this point. I believed and still do, that this should be accompanied by legal action to build a war chest that gives the Trust the best chance of one day taking a strong position in the club once more.

I don't believe that the owners know what they are doing, and I don't believe they care about anything other than making a profit or at the very least getting their money back.

The Trust has been silent and toothless in terms of pointing this out.

So an opportunity has now come up for a few people who believe in change joining the board to make that change. I have volunteered to do this, as have others on here.

We now talk about a new group being formed instead.

I will bet everything that I have, that if a new group is formed, within months the only focus of the Trust will be fighting against the new group. I have zero interest in being involved with that. I'm not joining a Trust in an attempt to give it teeth for once, to find that those who are prepared to show their teeth have now set up an alternative vehicle.

Either the view is we get the Trust doing what it should be doing, or we take the view that the Trust is a patsy, and set up an alternative group. Doing both, seems to me to be divisive. I don't mind which it is (although if they won't listen to a 21% shareholder, God knows why they'll listen to another group) but if this is happening, I can't see the point of trying to change within the Trust as well. It'll be like Life of Brian.

The only other note I'd make - on a number of occasions, including recently, the Trust have called for fans to refrain from showing discontent within the ground, for fear it would upset the team (snigger). I take it that Phil and Matt didn't agree with this. Once again, I'm wondering who the absolute f*** has been taking these decisions.


Glad you've been thinking this over for a couple of hours, and all the best in your endeavours for being voted on to the dinosaur organisation that is the Swansea Supporters Trust.... but most want change, new brush sweeps clean and all that 👍

Poll: Time to routinely arm our police force ?

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Independent Supporters Group on 20:50 - Dec 3 with 1034 viewsmonmouth

Independent Supporters Group on 20:39 - Dec 3 by Swanjaxs

Glad you've been thinking this over for a couple of hours, and all the best in your endeavours for being voted on to the dinosaur organisation that is the Swansea Supporters Trust.... but most want change, new brush sweeps clean and all that 👍


Well yes and no. I want a new broom that makes the Trust effective and the only point for me af any other group is to assist that by

a) Properly keeping the Trust honest and
b) Doing things the Trust would want done, but is unable to do through it's own constraints of being a trust, being a shareholder or being a boardmember.

I agree that I'd prefer new board members should bring this about but under the current constitution they can simply be outvoted (if Co-opts even have a vote) and are gagged from saying anything about it, with anonymous opaque voting. If the Trust won't change then it needs to be forced to with outside pressure working in concert (coincidentally, obviously) with more enlightened members of the Trust Board. And yes, if necessary, we all (re) join and mount a concerted campaign to get the blockers, dinosaurs and collaborators off.

Despite point b) above being a valid reason for a separate group to do any dirty work, the life of Brian scenario is a very real risk, which is why the last sentence above could usefully be the core pressing objective.

I haven't thought about it for hours, I'm just typing as things come into my head so apologies for that.

Poll: TRUST MEMBERS: What DID you vote in the, um, vote

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Independent Supporters Group on 20:51 - Dec 3 with 1027 viewslondonlisa2001

Independent Supporters Group on 20:39 - Dec 3 by Swanjaxs

Glad you've been thinking this over for a couple of hours, and all the best in your endeavours for being voted on to the dinosaur organisation that is the Swansea Supporters Trust.... but most want change, new brush sweeps clean and all that 👍


I want change. I've been arguing for change. I'm just saying that I thought the way to do it was to attempt to do it through the Trust.

If there is a better way, I am all ears, I just can't see the point of doing both. That's all.

In other words, I can't join both the people's Front of Judea and the Judean People's front. Or I could do, but it would seem odd.

No need to be sarcy with me by the way. If you think I'm putting endeavour into being 'voted on' anywhere, you're seriously mistaken. I'm doing it to try to achieve something. If you don't think I should, let me know. I won't bother.
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Independent Supporters Group on 20:59 - Dec 3 with 969 viewsWingstandwood

Independent Supporters Group on 20:31 - Dec 3 by leighton1318

The Trust has the shares and the money. The new group will have neither.

Surely the right tactic is to swamp the Trust, get on the board, etc, even if it takes till the next round of Trust elections. Far more chance to exert influence.


Thats a very streetwise and astute strategy! Have a Trust board that will become Jenkins, sell-outs and Yanks nightmare. One that has never forgotten the previous treachery and with the dynamism to reciprocate to Jenkins and his merry gang the same contempt of which the Trust itself has been held.

A coup here we come!
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Independent Supporters Group on 21:01 - Dec 3 with 960 viewsSwanjaxs

Independent Supporters Group on 20:51 - Dec 3 by londonlisa2001

I want change. I've been arguing for change. I'm just saying that I thought the way to do it was to attempt to do it through the Trust.

If there is a better way, I am all ears, I just can't see the point of doing both. That's all.

In other words, I can't join both the people's Front of Judea and the Judean People's front. Or I could do, but it would seem odd.

No need to be sarcy with me by the way. If you think I'm putting endeavour into being 'voted on' anywhere, you're seriously mistaken. I'm doing it to try to achieve something. If you don't think I should, let me know. I won't bother.


No carry on you, your endeavour is to be applauded, just putting out that in many supporters eyes the trust is a busted flush.... If you find my scribblings to be "sarcy" then i can only apologise..👍
[Post edited 3 Dec 21:02]

Poll: Time to routinely arm our police force ?

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Independent Supporters Group on 21:03 - Dec 3 with 945 viewslondonlisa2001

Independent Supporters Group on 20:50 - Dec 3 by monmouth

Well yes and no. I want a new broom that makes the Trust effective and the only point for me af any other group is to assist that by

a) Properly keeping the Trust honest and
b) Doing things the Trust would want done, but is unable to do through it's own constraints of being a trust, being a shareholder or being a boardmember.

I agree that I'd prefer new board members should bring this about but under the current constitution they can simply be outvoted (if Co-opts even have a vote) and are gagged from saying anything about it, with anonymous opaque voting. If the Trust won't change then it needs to be forced to with outside pressure working in concert (coincidentally, obviously) with more enlightened members of the Trust Board. And yes, if necessary, we all (re) join and mount a concerted campaign to get the blockers, dinosaurs and collaborators off.

Despite point b) above being a valid reason for a separate group to do any dirty work, the life of Brian scenario is a very real risk, which is why the last sentence above could usefully be the core pressing objective.

I haven't thought about it for hours, I'm just typing as things come into my head so apologies for that.


Just as an aside - my thinking was interrupted by many other thoughts during that time and quite a few glasses of wine. Just for clarity!

I think I just think that the Trust shouldn't have any constraints as long as it doesn't damage the club, and why should it do that anyway?

I'd like to see the Trust being militant. If it can't be, then a different approach is needed. But if it can't be, any involvement I may or may not have will be short lived anyway, as I've zero interest in being nice to the majority owners for the sake of it.
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Independent Supporters Group on 21:05 - Dec 3 with 932 viewsbuilthjack

Independent Supporters Group on 21:03 - Dec 3 by londonlisa2001

Just as an aside - my thinking was interrupted by many other thoughts during that time and quite a few glasses of wine. Just for clarity!

I think I just think that the Trust shouldn't have any constraints as long as it doesn't damage the club, and why should it do that anyway?

I'd like to see the Trust being militant. If it can't be, then a different approach is needed. But if it can't be, any involvement I may or may not have will be short lived anyway, as I've zero interest in being nice to the majority owners for the sake of it.


We'll said Lisa

Poll: Posts on here- Who are the big guns with the most posts

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Independent Supporters Group on 21:08 - Dec 3 with 902 viewsSwanjaxs

Independent Supporters Group on 21:05 - Dec 3 by builthjack

We'll said Lisa


Yes well said #kissbum 💋

Poll: Time to routinely arm our police force ?

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Independent Supporters Group on 21:15 - Dec 3 with 864 viewslondonlisa2001

Independent Supporters Group on 21:01 - Dec 3 by Swanjaxs

No carry on you, your endeavour is to be applauded, just putting out that in many supporters eyes the trust is a busted flush.... If you find my scribblings to be "sarcy" then i can only apologise..👍
[Post edited 3 Dec 21:02]


In many ways it is in my eyes.

I'm just seeing if I can do anything to change that. If I can't, so be it. If I can, then great.
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Independent Supporters Group on 21:17 - Dec 3 with 859 viewsjeza739

The trust is arguably no longer fit for purpose. Hence why i didnt renew my membership this yr as i dont agree with the direction it's taking. But genuine concerned supporters fragmented into two groups makes us weaker not stdonger. We need people like Lisa on the trust board to steer it in the direction the majority desire for the benefit of SCFC
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Independent Supporters Group on 21:19 - Dec 3 with 842 viewsmonmouth

Independent Supporters Group on 21:03 - Dec 3 by londonlisa2001

Just as an aside - my thinking was interrupted by many other thoughts during that time and quite a few glasses of wine. Just for clarity!

I think I just think that the Trust shouldn't have any constraints as long as it doesn't damage the club, and why should it do that anyway?

I'd like to see the Trust being militant. If it can't be, then a different approach is needed. But if it can't be, any involvement I may or may not have will be short lived anyway, as I've zero interest in being nice to the majority owners for the sake of it.


I WAS being sarcy.

I agree with you and want to see you try. I would hope that anything that can be done outside the Trust constitution and sructure would just add power to your elbow. At the moment the Trust Board and SD is allowed to simply be a power unto itself with no real scrutiny or external challenge. In my view that can't be allowed to continue.

Poll: TRUST MEMBERS: What DID you vote in the, um, vote

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Independent Supporters Group on 21:25 - Dec 3 with 810 viewsSwanjaxs

Independent Supporters Group on 21:15 - Dec 3 by londonlisa2001

In many ways it is in my eyes.

I'm just seeing if I can do anything to change that. If I can't, so be it. If I can, then great.


I wish you well my friend, your passion is nailed to the mast for everyone to see, change is needed and hopefully we can all find common ground to move us forward, at the end of the day we all want what's best for our club, let's look for the common ground so we can all sing from the same hymn sheet 👊

Poll: Time to routinely arm our police force ?

0

Independent Supporters Group on 21:27 - Dec 3 with 795 viewsexiledclaseboy

I’m fairly sure that everyone would agree that the ideal scenario is that the Trust changes tack and becomes the fans’ voice everyone wants it to be, thus rendering any new organisation surplus to requirements. But until that happens, if indeed it does happen, then I can see a role for a more strident organisation which is unencumbered by corporate responsibility and/or internal division. I would hope that the two groups wouldn’t want to start working against each other and like Lisa, I’ve little interest in that if that’s how things pan out. All fans are equal, let’s make sure that some don’t end up being more equal than others.

Poll: Who will you vote for on 8 June?

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Independent Supporters Group on 21:31 - Dec 3 with 770 viewsPhil_S

Independent Supporters Group on 21:27 - Dec 3 by exiledclaseboy

I’m fairly sure that everyone would agree that the ideal scenario is that the Trust changes tack and becomes the fans’ voice everyone wants it to be, thus rendering any new organisation surplus to requirements. But until that happens, if indeed it does happen, then I can see a role for a more strident organisation which is unencumbered by corporate responsibility and/or internal division. I would hope that the two groups wouldn’t want to start working against each other and like Lisa, I’ve little interest in that if that’s how things pan out. All fans are equal, let’s make sure that some don’t end up being more equal than others.


I would make it clear now I have no desire to work against the Trust - that would be madness, this isn't (for me) about destroying the organisation but - I think Monny sums it up for me - its about being the more vocal part of the fanbase publically

Good luck to those who get on board and if you change the Trust to be that vehicle then it doesn't need to be a separate group

Last sentence removed as its already hit the right nerve in the right places...

This post has been edited by an administrator

"We are a disgrace to the Premier League" ©oldjack - 25 January 2014 3.48pm #outofmydepth Third recipient of a Planet Swans lifetime achievement award Talking shit since 2001

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Independent Supporters Group on 21:34 - Dec 3 with 743 viewsSwanjaxs

Independent Supporters Group on 21:31 - Dec 3 by Phil_S

I would make it clear now I have no desire to work against the Trust - that would be madness, this isn't (for me) about destroying the organisation but - I think Monny sums it up for me - its about being the more vocal part of the fanbase publically

Good luck to those who get on board and if you change the Trust to be that vehicle then it doesn't need to be a separate group

Last sentence removed as its already hit the right nerve in the right places...

This post has been edited by an administrator


Exactly! Keep your enemies close mate 👍

Poll: Time to routinely arm our police force ?

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Independent Supporters Group on 21:38 - Dec 3 with 708 viewsPhil_S

Independent Supporters Group on 21:34 - Dec 3 by Swanjaxs

Exactly! Keep your enemies close mate 👍


Out of interest though who do you see as the enemy in my post?

"We are a disgrace to the Premier League" ©oldjack - 25 January 2014 3.48pm #outofmydepth Third recipient of a Planet Swans lifetime achievement award Talking shit since 2001

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Independent Supporters Group on 21:40 - Dec 3 with 697 viewsSwanjaxs

Independent Supporters Group on 21:38 - Dec 3 by Phil_S

Out of interest though who do you see as the enemy in my post?


So your last but one post was directed at me yes?

Poll: Time to routinely arm our police force ?

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Independent Supporters Group on 21:42 - Dec 3 with 672 viewsPhil_S

Independent Supporters Group on 21:40 - Dec 3 by Swanjaxs

So your last but one post was directed at me yes?


Not at all - why did you say that? It was aimed at someone not on the forum

"We are a disgrace to the Premier League" ©oldjack - 25 January 2014 3.48pm #outofmydepth Third recipient of a Planet Swans lifetime achievement award Talking shit since 2001

0
Independent Supporters Group on 21:47 - Dec 3 with 626 viewsTheResurrection

Independent Supporters Group on 21:01 - Dec 3 by Swanjaxs

No carry on you, your endeavour is to be applauded, just putting out that in many supporters eyes the trust is a busted flush.... If you find my scribblings to be "sarcy" then i can only apologise..👍
[Post edited 3 Dec 21:02]


Well here comes my favourite ever thing to do, play the devil's advocate.

You want to follow blindly Phil's suggestion of a supporters group after calling the institution he pretty much led for 12 years a busted flush?

Explain your logic?

* BOX OFFICE POST ABOVE* TM I am the resurrection and i am the light. I couldn’t ever bring myself to hate you as i’d like
Poll: Is it time for the Trust to make change happen?

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Independent Supporters Group on 21:47 - Dec 3 with 626 viewsSwanjaxs

Independent Supporters Group on 21:42 - Dec 3 by Phil_S

Not at all - why did you say that? It was aimed at someone not on the forum


Crossed wire's then yes.... i'm not a clairvoyant, i'm on your side, but if you've got a beef with someone #post edited# then speak your mind and give said person the right of reply 👍
[Post edited 3 Dec 21:49]

Poll: Time to routinely arm our police force ?

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Independent Supporters Group on 21:51 - Dec 3 with 578 viewsPhil_S

Independent Supporters Group on 21:47 - Dec 3 by Swanjaxs

Crossed wire's then yes.... i'm not a clairvoyant, i'm on your side, but if you've got a beef with someone #post edited# then speak your mind and give said person the right of reply 👍
[Post edited 3 Dec 21:49]


True enough although lets just say that said person wouldn't take a right of reply anyway :D

We move on, little spats not needed, we all have one common goal

"We are a disgrace to the Premier League" ©oldjack - 25 January 2014 3.48pm #outofmydepth Third recipient of a Planet Swans lifetime achievement award Talking shit since 2001

0
Independent Supporters Group on 21:51 - Dec 3 with 577 viewsTheResurrection

Independent Supporters Group on 21:31 - Dec 3 by Phil_S

I would make it clear now I have no desire to work against the Trust - that would be madness, this isn't (for me) about destroying the organisation but - I think Monny sums it up for me - its about being the more vocal part of the fanbase publically

Good luck to those who get on board and if you change the Trust to be that vehicle then it doesn't need to be a separate group

Last sentence removed as its already hit the right nerve in the right places...

This post has been edited by an administrator


I don't think it will be hard to change the Trust.

Get things straight on the table and get on with it.

* BOX OFFICE POST ABOVE* TM I am the resurrection and i am the light. I couldn’t ever bring myself to hate you as i’d like
Poll: Is it time for the Trust to make change happen?

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