| Jenkins versus the Americans 11:21 - Dec 28 with 8483 views | TheResurrection |
Keep this very much in mind...
The inexperienced Americans have messed up on at least 3 big calls to date
1 - Appointing Bradley
2 - Taking forever with the Siggy transfer thus messing our window completely up
3 - Taking forever with the Clement sacking
Jenkins wanted no part of Bob Bradley
Jenkins wanted Siggy gone weeks and weeks earlier
Jenkins wanted Clement gone, again, weeks ago.
The plan to get shot of Jenkins is useless, UNLESS there is a succession plan.
Because if we are left with the incompetent Americans making the sort of decisions above, then we really are facked.
Phil S and Matt G know all of the above so what is the game here?
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| Jenkins versus the Americans on 16:28 - Dec 28 with 894 views | TheResurrection |
| Jenkins versus the Americans on 16:08 - Dec 28 by thenorthbankbog |
Defending Jenkins again! Is it a coincidence the SCSA are starting to get their act together and you’re on here. Last week you were having a pop at the union. Are you on Jenkins’s payroll? Your complete 180 degree turn is hard to explain |
If you bothered to read the thread you'd see Im not defending Jenkins and far from it.
This is deeper than that.
And this payroll nonsense is just embarrassing mate. | |
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| Jenkins versus the Americans on 16:30 - Dec 28 with 884 views | jasper_T |
Didn't Jenkins want Giggs instead of Bradley?
I can't imagine that would have worked out any better tbh. |  | | |
| Jenkins versus the Americans on 16:31 - Dec 28 with 884 views | Spearchucker_Jones |
No one would disagree that the Yanks have / are making mistakes.
Look at D.C. United, sitting firmly at the bottom of the Eastern Conference (whilst they build a new stadium in advance of no doubt trying to flip the club, sound familiar?). I assume someone has explained to them that we have relegation in this country.
But a couple of things (at least) for me land squarely on Jenkins.
He could have hired Brendan Rogers in the summer of 2016 instead of extending Guidolin's contract, as well as (quickly) paying Liverpool what they wanted for Joe Allen.
And also after Bradley got the elbow he could have gone back to Marcelino (Valencia currently third) who came to interview for the job at the same time, instead of eventually pumping for Clement.
I don't think we'd be in the current predicament if either of those two had been hired instead (and Joey wouldn't have hurt either), Guidolin and Clement were his picks. | | | |
| Jenkins versus the Americans on 16:41 - Dec 28 with 849 views | TheResurrection |
| Jenkins versus the Americans on 16:17 - Dec 28 by 34dfgdf54 |
One point. Where is the evidence that selling Siggy earlier would have given us the funds to replace? If the rumours are to be true, we are selling Mawson to fund any signings in January.
He sold us to an American Hedge fund, behind the trusts back, that “Big Cat” guy (one of our owners!) was taking the p*ss out of us on twitter last week when Clement was sacked. There is no going back for him, he needs to go. |
That's not the point though mate.
The actual funds from Siggy isn't important in this context, it was the decision to sell him and when, as if he'd gone a month earlier we'd have been able to plan better.
With all the not knowing and lack of communication between Swans Board and the Americans we were left not knowing, and that's had a massive impact on our Summer dealing. | |
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| Jenkins versus the Americans on 16:46 - Dec 28 with 822 views | PawelAbbott |
I think the role should be split in 2. A chairman who does the day to day running of the club which could be someone who has run successful businessses of a similar size and not a failed roofing supplies shop.
The second part a sporting director to oversee transfers, the academies etc. Someone like David Moss, him of the Cusack team who has recently left a senior scouting role at Celtic.
Or any number of other people with actual football experience | | | |
| Jenkins versus the Americans on 16:48 - Dec 28 with 811 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| Jenkins versus the Americans on 11:32 - Dec 28 by MattG |
If Jenkins wanted Clement gone weeks ago, why was there not someone ready to step in as soon as the trigger was pulled? You know, a succession plan. One that Jenkins, in his position, is presumably responsible for putting in place.
There is often talk on here about managers lacking the decency to walk when Jenkins foists his players on them and them even toeing the party line about being happy with the squad. Surely the same criticism should be aimed at Jenkins for not walking when the Yanks appointed Bradley over his head or ignored his advice regarding the Gylfi sale and Clement sacking.
I'm really struggling with the idea that we should be somehow painting Jenkins as the patsy for all of this when everything ultimately stems from his desperation to cash in his shares. |
Quit? And forfeit his half a million pound club draining salary? I don't think you know this man very well at all ! |  |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| Jenkins versus the Americans on 16:48 - Dec 28 with 805 views | JackFish |
| Jenkins versus the Americans on 16:46 - Dec 28 by PawelAbbott |
I think the role should be split in 2. A chairman who does the day to day running of the club which could be someone who has run successful businessses of a similar size and not a failed roofing supplies shop.
The second part a sporting director to oversee transfers, the academies etc. Someone like David Moss, him of the Cusack team who has recently left a senior scouting role at Celtic.
Or any number of other people with actual football experience |
Can't disagree with that. I also can't see our owners having the faintest idea of who to appoint if HJ leaves. |  | | |
| Jenkins versus the Americans on 16:51 - Dec 28 with 789 views | dobjack2 |
| Jenkins versus the Americans on 16:41 - Dec 28 by TheResurrection |
That's not the point though mate.
The actual funds from Siggy isn't important in this context, it was the decision to sell him and when, as if he'd gone a month earlier we'd have been able to plan better.
With all the not knowing and lack of communication between Swans Board and the Americans we were left not knowing, and that's had a massive impact on our Summer dealing. |
We should have planned for it full stop.
The importance of the funds being that we had to sell before we could replace with quality.
The amount of funds we received would have dictated who we could afford to bring in.
E.g. if £30 million we’ll go for A B and C if £40 million D B and C etc.
Even taking into account our incompetence in not being ready before the season started, after the Barnet game it was absolute clear to everyone, not just those at the club, that he wanted to go and we should have put things in place to get players in the second the deal was done.
Our acquisition planning appears to consist of little more than looking at players we looked at in the last window and didn’t get. [Post edited 28 Dec 2017 16:56]
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| Jenkins versus the Americans on 16:52 - Dec 28 with 788 views | MattG |
| Jenkins versus the Americans on 13:40 - Dec 28 by TheResurrection |
No, once again you're very much on the wrong side of being right.
And there's no such thing as a succession plan for a new manager. Not for a team like us. We have to make do with best options at the time and there'll be question marks over every single one of them in the frame.
But even for all that, how can you plan when your decision is being over ridden.
Jenkins hasn't made the bad choices of late, it's been the Americans, but that doesn't suit this particular witch hunt, does it.
People go on about everything going wrong since Laudrup. But from memory most were in agreement he had to go, and when we all saw the control he and his agent had over transfers, that was backed up
Now I adored Laudrup and his signings so I'm torn in saying this, but people can't run with the hare and the hounds, it was either right for him to go or it wasn't.
People then talk about recruitment, but we went with a different style and players were maybe brought in because of that. That's also down to the manager at the time and the players mentioned from this season then how much influence do you think Clement had over who was brought in. Sanches and Tammy are givens, Clucas would've been Clement stamped as well.
Previous windows saw everyone's beloved Siggy being brought in, Shelvey who did well for us overall. We've not had much luck over the last few windows but it's not easy either.
The sense of entitlement is the biggest concern facing our club at the moment. Not only do we want to stay in the Premier league but we're now all insisting that we play like Barcelona as well, and all this because we did it for just 5% of our history.
Are we being realistic or do we just enjoy the feeling of being hard done by so we can all have a good moan and bully someone?
Jenkins did a despicable thing as he got blinded by the chance to make him and his family secure for ever more. But it wasn't just him who made that decision, there were many others involved, Jenkins has been a safe pair of hands in the main throughout the years, we really should never forget that.
And going back to the main point, if the Americans didn't have him around to sound things out then we'd be left at the mercy of their calamitous mistakes alone.
That is a bigger worry than the aims of the Supporters Association in blindly getting rid of the only one there that's actually had some experience in football decisions over the years and in the main has had more success than failure. |
If you want to argue that he's still the best man for the job then that's your perogative. I'm struggling to see it given that, by your own admission, he is being ignored on the big decisions but each to their own.
The thing is that you are only presenting the options of Jenkins or nobody - any reason why he can't be replaced for £550k a year? Personally, after everything that's gone on over the past 4 years or so, I'd prefer to get rid and see what that sort of money could bring us as an alternative.
With the best (or worst, depending on your perspective) will in the world, HJ will undoubtedly be in place for this transfer window and I can't bear to imagine that we will be looking for another manager this side of the summer. On that basis, as there are unlikely to be any significant footballing decisions to be taken between February and May, what better time to push for change? |  | | |
| Jenkins versus the Americans on 16:53 - Dec 28 with 786 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Jenkins versus the Americans on 16:41 - Dec 28 by TheResurrection |
That's not the point though mate.
The actual funds from Siggy isn't important in this context, it was the decision to sell him and when, as if he'd gone a month earlier we'd have been able to plan better.
With all the not knowing and lack of communication between Swans Board and the Americans we were left not knowing, and that's had a massive impact on our Summer dealing. |
Jenkins may have wanted to finalise the sale earlier but it was known from the end of last season he was going (by everyone). No excuse for not planning the replacement for when the sale happened. The only question mark was a few million. I said all summer that we should have finalised it sooner, but there was no 'not knowing'. | | | |
| Jenkins versus the Americans on 16:54 - Dec 28 with 782 views | TheResurrection |
| Jenkins versus the Americans on 16:31 - Dec 28 by Spearchucker_Jones |
No one would disagree that the Yanks have / are making mistakes.
Look at D.C. United, sitting firmly at the bottom of the Eastern Conference (whilst they build a new stadium in advance of no doubt trying to flip the club, sound familiar?). I assume someone has explained to them that we have relegation in this country.
But a couple of things (at least) for me land squarely on Jenkins.
He could have hired Brendan Rogers in the summer of 2016 instead of extending Guidolin's contract, as well as (quickly) paying Liverpool what they wanted for Joe Allen.
And also after Bradley got the elbow he could have gone back to Marcelino (Valencia currently third) who came to interview for the job at the same time, instead of eventually pumping for Clement.
I don't think we'd be in the current predicament if either of those two had been hired instead (and Joey wouldn't have hurt either), Guidolin and Clement were his picks. |
Some extremely valid points and I continue to say, I'm not blindly defending Jenkins. There's a whole host of errors you could lay at his door, no one making decisions gets every one right.
But, to go back to the issue here, what's going to be the alternative and who's going to make the big decision on that?
And, would we then automatically be free of any mistakes being made in the future?
Do some of you honestly think it's just as easy as that?? | |
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| Jenkins versus the Americans on 16:55 - Dec 28 with 769 views | MattG |
| Jenkins versus the Americans on 16:48 - Dec 28 by Brynmill_Jack |
Quit? And forfeit his half a million pound club draining salary? I don't think you know this man very well at all ! |
Typing the words "Jenkins" and "decency" in the same sentence took some doing, let me tell you. | | | |
| Jenkins versus the Americans on 17:03 - Dec 28 with 737 views | dobjack2 |
| Jenkins versus the Americans on 16:54 - Dec 28 by TheResurrection |
Some extremely valid points and I continue to say, I'm not blindly defending Jenkins. There's a whole host of errors you could lay at his door, no one making decisions gets every one right.
But, to go back to the issue here, what's going to be the alternative and who's going to make the big decision on that?
And, would we then automatically be free of any mistakes being made in the future?
Do some of you honestly think it's just as easy as that?? |
Nobody thinks it is as easy as that. (I hope)
Jenkins is a major reason why there is such a toxic atmosphere at the club.
He has to go, along with all of the selling shareholders and any deals that they have to take that part of the toxicity away. Once that happens we can unite against the Americans.
Do I think that they will bring someone clueless in - yes
Do I think they will continually feck up until they leave - yes
But Jenkins and all the selling shareholders need to cut their ties to the club to enable people to move on.
Basically feck off and don’t come back. | | | |
| Jenkins versus the Americans on 17:05 - Dec 28 with 729 views | TheResurrection |
| Jenkins versus the Americans on 16:53 - Dec 28 by londonlisa2001 |
Jenkins may have wanted to finalise the sale earlier but it was known from the end of last season he was going (by everyone). No excuse for not planning the replacement for when the sale happened. The only question mark was a few million. I said all summer that we should have finalised it sooner, but there was no 'not knowing'. |
That's not true Lisa, at one point the Americans were adamant he wasn't going. | |
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| Jenkins versus the Americans on 17:08 - Dec 28 with 707 views | waynekerr55 |
| Jenkins versus the Americans on 16:46 - Dec 28 by PawelAbbott |
I think the role should be split in 2. A chairman who does the day to day running of the club which could be someone who has run successful businessses of a similar size and not a failed roofing supplies shop.
The second part a sporting director to oversee transfers, the academies etc. Someone like David Moss, him of the Cusack team who has recently left a senior scouting role at Celtic.
Or any number of other people with actual football experience |
They'd never employ Mossy and I doubt he'd come back, especially after the pigs ear they made when 'sacking' him because a couple of parents had the hump. They had to pay him a years salary as he had them by the bollocks for unfair dismissal |  |
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| Jenkins versus the Americans on 17:09 - Dec 28 with 703 views | TheResurrection |
| Jenkins versus the Americans on 17:03 - Dec 28 by dobjack2 |
Nobody thinks it is as easy as that. (I hope)
Jenkins is a major reason why there is such a toxic atmosphere at the club.
He has to go, along with all of the selling shareholders and any deals that they have to take that part of the toxicity away. Once that happens we can unite against the Americans.
Do I think that they will bring someone clueless in - yes
Do I think they will continually feck up until they leave - yes
But Jenkins and all the selling shareholders need to cut their ties to the club to enable people to move on.
Basically feck off and don’t come back. |
So cut our nose off to spite our face.
Classic policy in getting absolutely nowhere. | |
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| Jenkins versus the Americans on 17:12 - Dec 28 with 691 views | TheResurrection |
| Jenkins versus the Americans on 16:52 - Dec 28 by MattG |
If you want to argue that he's still the best man for the job then that's your perogative. I'm struggling to see it given that, by your own admission, he is being ignored on the big decisions but each to their own.
The thing is that you are only presenting the options of Jenkins or nobody - any reason why he can't be replaced for £550k a year? Personally, after everything that's gone on over the past 4 years or so, I'd prefer to get rid and see what that sort of money could bring us as an alternative.
With the best (or worst, depending on your perspective) will in the world, HJ will undoubtedly be in place for this transfer window and I can't bear to imagine that we will be looking for another manager this side of the summer. On that basis, as there are unlikely to be any significant footballing decisions to be taken between February and May, what better time to push for change? |
£550k a year is peanuts compared to what time served Director's of Football would command.
Think about it. | |
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| Jenkins versus the Americans on 17:13 - Dec 28 with 683 views | jasper_T |
| Jenkins versus the Americans on 17:05 - Dec 28 by TheResurrection |
That's not true Lisa, at one point the Americans were adamant he wasn't going. |
Was that before or after he went on strike and skipped preseason? | | | |
| Jenkins versus the Americans on 17:15 - Dec 28 with 672 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Jenkins versus the Americans on 17:05 - Dec 28 by TheResurrection |
That's not true Lisa, at one point the Americans were adamant he wasn't going. |
It was clear he was going. Any posturing was simply about money and making it clear to him and his agent they had to get it sorted. He wanted to go and it was known he would. | | | |
| Jenkins versus the Americans on 17:17 - Dec 28 with 658 views | dobjack2 |
| Jenkins versus the Americans on 17:09 - Dec 28 by TheResurrection |
So cut our nose off to spite our face.
Classic policy in getting absolutely nowhere. |
Nope.
If as you say he isn’t being listened to then there is no point in him being there after this window is over.
Therefore he serves no point other than to wind up the support. To be fair to Jenkins I would like them all to feck off not just him.
We cannot move forward with him there. That is not cutting nose off to spite face it is facing reality.
If he goes then the Americans do not have the luxury of hiding behind him, which is what you appear to be alluding to. | | | |
| Jenkins versus the Americans on 17:19 - Dec 28 with 648 views | TheResurrection |
| Jenkins versus the Americans on 17:15 - Dec 28 by londonlisa2001 |
It was clear he was going. Any posturing was simply about money and making it clear to him and his agent they had to get it sorted. He wanted to go and it was known he would. |
That's not how they saw it and that's what I'm trying to say. This is what we're up against. [Post edited 28 Dec 2017 17:26]
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| Jenkins versus the Americans on 17:24 - Dec 28 with 618 views | Private_Partz |
| Jenkins versus the Americans on 17:12 - Dec 28 by TheResurrection |
£550k a year is peanuts compared to what time served Director's of Football would command.
Think about it. |
Personally I would rather pay £1m pa to someone who had a Scooby about football and running a club.
If Jenkins went do we think the Yanks would rush to appoint their man? This after misjudging Jenkins and Mr Blobby so badly?
They might do just that. They also may realise that theur 'investment' is going Westward at a speed of knots. This in turn could actually force them into listening to people who actually have productive ideas of how to run a club and draw up a suitable list of potential DOFs. |  |
| You have mission in life to hold out your hand,
To help the other guy out,
Help your fellow man.
Stan Ridgway
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| Jenkins versus the Americans on 17:28 - Dec 28 with 604 views | TheResurrection |
| Jenkins versus the Americans on 17:17 - Dec 28 by dobjack2 |
Nope.
If as you say he isn’t being listened to then there is no point in him being there after this window is over.
Therefore he serves no point other than to wind up the support. To be fair to Jenkins I would like them all to feck off not just him.
We cannot move forward with him there. That is not cutting nose off to spite face it is facing reality.
If he goes then the Americans do not have the luxury of hiding behind him, which is what you appear to be alluding to. |
Oh bloody hell mate, he is being listened to but only when it's too late.
He's in effect been a troubleshooter the last two years. | |
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| Jenkins versus the Americans on 17:28 - Dec 28 with 601 views | Spearchucker_Jones |
| Jenkins versus the Americans on 16:54 - Dec 28 by TheResurrection |
Some extremely valid points and I continue to say, I'm not blindly defending Jenkins. There's a whole host of errors you could lay at his door, no one making decisions gets every one right.
But, to go back to the issue here, what's going to be the alternative and who's going to make the big decision on that?
And, would we then automatically be free of any mistakes being made in the future?
Do some of you honestly think it's just as easy as that?? |
I think I understand the broad point you're making (but please clarify if I have misunderstood).
The Yanks have shown themselves to be fairly clueless so far in terms of running the club (and as I mentioned earlier see D.C. United for further proof of this), so could you trust them to pick a competent replacement for Jenkins / based on the evidence to date the answer is no, which I don't disagree with.
There are plenty of competent DOF's out there if they wanted to continue with that model but aye could they actually spot one (or hire an even worse one lol, though I appreciate it's not funny)? It's a bit of a Catch-22 presently.
One, for me anyway, significant mistake the Yanks made was not moving for Bony at the very start of the window. He's shown he's got more than enough gas in the tank and would have been a very adequate replacement for Llorente. But after 10 or so games last season he desperately a decent pre-season. The injuries this season I think are a result of not having that, and if he did I think he could have got 10 - 15 league goals. | | | |
| Jenkins versus the Americans on 17:30 - Dec 28 with 592 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Jenkins versus the Americans on 17:12 - Dec 28 by TheResurrection |
£550k a year is peanuts compared to what time served Director's of Football would command.
Think about it. |
He gets more than his equivalent at Southampton, Leicester, Newcastle, Palace, Watford, Bournemouth, Everton. Less than the big clubs obviously, not far off what Karen Brady gets at West Ham.
Helpfully they all have to publish it. | | | |
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