| Churchill and Wales 10:57 - Jan 17 with 24643 views | trampie |
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| Churchill and Wales on 22:26 - Jan 17 with 1363 views | Lord_Bony |
| Churchill and Wales on 22:10 - Jan 17 by Lohengrin |
A declaration of war in the event of an attack on Poland, but not on Finland. Why do you think that was? Could it possibly have had something to do with the tens of millions the City of London and Wall Street, New York had tied up in the second Polish Republic or am I being overly cynical in thinking that a Conservative government here isn't animated first and foremost by altruism? |
We had a pact to defend Poland but not Finland.
The Soviets were the ones with a pact and an alliance with Nazis in 1939. Not Finns.
Molotov Ribbentrop Pact.
Basically,it was agreed with Hitler he could have western Poland and the Russians could take eastern Poland,the Baltic states and Finland.
It is also true that the large international banking families such as the Rothschilds and Bilderburgs made an absolute fortune out of financing both sides of the conflict,the allies and axis forces. |  |
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| Churchill and Wales on 22:29 - Jan 17 with 1354 views | trampie |
Saxe-Coburg and Gotha. | |
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| Churchill and Wales on 22:32 - Jan 17 with 1349 views | Lohengrin |
| Churchill and Wales on 22:26 - Jan 17 by Lord_Bony |
We had a pact to defend Poland but not Finland.
The Soviets were the ones with a pact and an alliance with Nazis in 1939. Not Finns.
Molotov Ribbentrop Pact.
Basically,it was agreed with Hitler he could have western Poland and the Russians could take eastern Poland,the Baltic states and Finland.
It is also true that the large international banking families such as the Rothschilds and Bilderburgs made an absolute fortune out of financing both sides of the conflict,the allies and axis forces. |
I know the chronology well enough, Bony. I'm asking whose interests Chamberlain's signature in April '39 were intended to defend? |  |
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| Churchill and Wales on 22:46 - Jan 17 with 1325 views | Lord_Bony |
| Churchill and Wales on 22:32 - Jan 17 by Lohengrin |
I know the chronology well enough, Bony. I'm asking whose interests Chamberlain's signature in April '39 were intended to defend? |
As I said Poland was seen as a red line. If Hitler invaded then it was obvious his intentions were to take over a greater Europe.
A further reason for Chamberlain's decision to guarantee Poland was to counter the relentless campaign from Eden, Churchill, and the Labour Party for an alliance with Stalin. This has been seen as a lost opportunity, especially since the Soviets eventually rolled back Operation Barbarossa all the way to the Reichstag steps and Hitler's bunker.
We re lucky because of the atom bomb,they would not have stopped there and taken over the rest of Europe. | |
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| Churchill and Wales on 22:58 - Jan 17 with 1315 views | Lohengrin |
| Churchill and Wales on 22:46 - Jan 17 by Lord_Bony |
As I said Poland was seen as a red line. If Hitler invaded then it was obvious his intentions were to take over a greater Europe.
A further reason for Chamberlain's decision to guarantee Poland was to counter the relentless campaign from Eden, Churchill, and the Labour Party for an alliance with Stalin. This has been seen as a lost opportunity, especially since the Soviets eventually rolled back Operation Barbarossa all the way to the Reichstag steps and Hitler's bunker.
We re lucky because of the atom bomb,they would not have stopped there and taken over the rest of Europe. |
A relentless campaign by Churchill and Eden to ally with Stalin? Are you sure there, Bony? In the Summer of '41 when Barbarossa was launched I'm sure there pair of them must have danced a little jig but in 1939 Stalin was making their flesh crawl.
The Public Records Office, The National Archive up at Kew is open to all, Bony. The deeper you dig into the records surrounding the events at Munich and on into the slide to war the murkier, the more confused and distorted the the real picture becomes. | |
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| Churchill and Wales on 23:04 - Jan 17 with 1307 views | Lord_Bony |
| Churchill and Wales on 22:58 - Jan 17 by Lohengrin |
A relentless campaign by Churchill and Eden to ally with Stalin? Are you sure there, Bony? In the Summer of '41 when Barbarossa was launched I'm sure there pair of them must have danced a little jig but in 1939 Stalin was making their flesh crawl.
The Public Records Office, The National Archive up at Kew is open to all, Bony. The deeper you dig into the records surrounding the events at Munich and on into the slide to war the murkier, the more confused and distorted the the real picture becomes. |
It's complicated so here's an abstract article explaining...
A debate on the subject took place in the House of Commons on 19th May, 1939. The debate was short and was "practically confined to the leaders of Parties and to prominent ex-Ministers". Chamberlain made it clear that he had severe doubts about Stalin's proposal. Clement Attlee, the leader of the Labour Party and David Lloyd George, the former prime minister called for an alliance with the Soviet Union. (4)
"Winston Churchill, made a passionate speech where he urged Chamberlain to accept Stalin's offer: "There is no means of maintaining an eastern front against Nazi aggression without the active aid of Russia. Russian interests are deeply concerned in preventing Herr Hitler's designs on eastern Europe. It should still be possible to range all the States and peoples from the Baltic to the Black sea in one solid front against a new outrage of invasion. Such a front, if established in good heart, and with resolute and efficient military arrangements, combined with the strength of the Western Powers, may yet confront Hitler, Goering, Himmler, Ribbentrop, Goebbels and co. with forces the German people would be reluctant to challenge." (5) | |
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| Churchill and Wales on 23:23 - Jan 17 with 1287 views | Treforys_Jack |
| Churchill and Wales on 22:19 - Jan 17 by Lohengrin |
He's comical though.  |
I just picture him as Wolfie Smith for some bizarre reason. |  | | |
| Churchill and Wales on 23:25 - Jan 17 with 1286 views | Lohengrin |
| Churchill and Wales on 23:04 - Jan 17 by Lord_Bony |
It's complicated so here's an abstract article explaining...
A debate on the subject took place in the House of Commons on 19th May, 1939. The debate was short and was "practically confined to the leaders of Parties and to prominent ex-Ministers". Chamberlain made it clear that he had severe doubts about Stalin's proposal. Clement Attlee, the leader of the Labour Party and David Lloyd George, the former prime minister called for an alliance with the Soviet Union. (4)
"Winston Churchill, made a passionate speech where he urged Chamberlain to accept Stalin's offer: "There is no means of maintaining an eastern front against Nazi aggression without the active aid of Russia. Russian interests are deeply concerned in preventing Herr Hitler's designs on eastern Europe. It should still be possible to range all the States and peoples from the Baltic to the Black sea in one solid front against a new outrage of invasion. Such a front, if established in good heart, and with resolute and efficient military arrangements, combined with the strength of the Western Powers, may yet confront Hitler, Goering, Himmler, Ribbentrop, Goebbels and co. with forces the German people would be reluctant to challenge." (5) |
That rhetoric was meant to be read in Berlin, Bony. That was intended to give Hitler pause. That's politics.
Do you know about the Stalin proposals? They were supposedly made a fortnight before the outbreak of war and entailed, with the granting of free passage through Poland, parking some "120 infantry divisions (each with some 19,000 troops), 16 cavalry divisions, 5,000 heavy artillery pieces, 9,500 tanks and up to 5,500 fighter aircraft and bombers on Germany's borders." Let's suppose such a force was actually able to be effectively mobilised after the purges, and I have my doubts, but let's suppose it could have been. Do you think Stalin would have just led them all back home again or would he have annexed in a coup de main? Would his gaze have then turned toward Hungary and Austria? I suspect it would.
Despite what Churchill may have uttered for effect in The House, despite Lloyd George nodding in agreement don't confuse political theatre with harsh reality. The prospect would have terrified them. | |
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| Churchill and Wales on 23:26 - Jan 17 with 1285 views | Pacemaker |
| Churchill and Wales on 14:52 - Jan 17 by Jack_Kass |
He was the PM the country needed at the time, popular or not. Surely that's almost a given?
This myth that he sent troops against the miners, has been debunked, many a time, and has become a parody of itself
Some have written that he sent tanks to Tonypandy, in the first decade of the 20th century, FFS. [Post edited 17 Jan 2018 14:52]
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Troops were sent to Tonypandy is a fact, the 19th Hussars were certainly sent in on horseback, most injured miners were injured by local and metropolitan police one miner died from a police baton many miners were imprisoned.
I am a Rhondda boy and brought up on lurid tales of Churchill and Pandy riots but the truth was not quite as bad as many make out. |  |
| Life is an adventure or nothing at all. |
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| Churchill and Wales on 23:27 - Jan 17 with 1281 views | Lohengrin |
| Churchill and Wales on 23:23 - Jan 17 by Treforys_Jack |
I just picture him as Wolfie Smith for some bizarre reason. |
Think again... 
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| Churchill and Wales on 23:50 - Jan 17 with 1254 views | Lord_Bony |
| Churchill and Wales on 23:25 - Jan 17 by Lohengrin |
That rhetoric was meant to be read in Berlin, Bony. That was intended to give Hitler pause. That's politics.
Do you know about the Stalin proposals? They were supposedly made a fortnight before the outbreak of war and entailed, with the granting of free passage through Poland, parking some "120 infantry divisions (each with some 19,000 troops), 16 cavalry divisions, 5,000 heavy artillery pieces, 9,500 tanks and up to 5,500 fighter aircraft and bombers on Germany's borders." Let's suppose such a force was actually able to be effectively mobilised after the purges, and I have my doubts, but let's suppose it could have been. Do you think Stalin would have just led them all back home again or would he have annexed in a coup de main? Would his gaze have then turned toward Hungary and Austria? I suspect it would.
Despite what Churchill may have uttered for effect in The House, despite Lloyd George nodding in agreement don't confuse political theatre with harsh reality. The prospect would have terrified them. |
Churchill was very supportive of the Russians all the way through the war. | |
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| Churchill and Wales on 23:52 - Jan 17 with 1249 views | Lord_Bony |
And I've now missed my film. | |
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| Churchill and Wales on 00:00 - Jan 18 with 1243 views | Jack_Kass |
| Churchill and Wales on 23:26 - Jan 17 by Pacemaker |
Troops were sent to Tonypandy is a fact, the 19th Hussars were certainly sent in on horseback, most injured miners were injured by local and metropolitan police one miner died from a police baton many miners were imprisoned.
I am a Rhondda boy and brought up on lurid tales of Churchill and Pandy riots but the truth was not quite as bad as many make out. |
They were deployed nearby as backup, but never physically stood foot in Tonypandy in 1910, they certainly did not intervene.
Churchill later reported to the King that he had not needed the intervention of soldiers to regain peace in Tonypandy.
Llanelli in 1911? a whole different story, most certainly. |  |
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| Churchill and Wales on 00:40 - Jan 18 with 1219 views | BarrySwan |
| Churchill and Wales on 19:09 - Jan 17 by exiledclaseboy |
Watched it at the weekend. It’s ok. Some scenes are faintly ridiculous and Gary Oldman overacts hs way through the whole thing. Decent watch though. John Lithgow’s Churchill in The Crown was far superior to Oldman’s. |
Thought exactly the same Mr Cude.
Watched Three billboards outside Ebbing Missouri yesterday, thought it was a cracking film, sometimes dark, giggling funny throughout and very thought provoking also. | | | |
| Churchill and Wales on 00:46 - Jan 18 with 1212 views | BarrySwan |
| Churchill and Wales on 21:17 - Jan 17 by Kilkennyjack |
Amazing he got it the top 10 people of the millenium then don’t you think ?
Wiki says .....
‘Only printing press inventor Johannn Gutenburg, William Shakespeare, William Caxton, who brought printing to Britain, Leonardo da Vinci, Elizabeth the First and the discoverer of electricity, Michael Faraday, were more important than one of the heroes of Welsh history’.
Perhaps you need to educate yourself...? |
Really?
Which part of my comments would you like to dispute in regards to historical accuracy? | | | |
| Churchill and Wales on 01:28 - Jan 18 with 1200 views | Humpty |
| Churchill and Wales on 22:17 - Jan 17 by Lohengrin |
You will end up burnt at the stake, Jack. You realise that, don't you?
Accepted schools of repetition won't suffer a heretic. |
Just to be clear, when you and Jack Meoff are talking about Hitler taking on "international finance" do you actually mean Jews? |  | | |
| Churchill and Wales on 01:38 - Jan 18 with 1197 views | Humpty |
| Churchill and Wales on 21:49 - Jan 17 by perchrockjack |
English and Germans on the same side
What disgusting comment which has not been challenged
Talk to people in England who survived the blitz and those whose descendants were slaughtered on the Somme.
You're truly a filthy piece of shite trampie, narrow minded and pitiful in equal measure ,a reason why Welsh people simply feck off from a land with clowns like you spouting this insulting drivel |
That could be directed at other people on this thread Perch. People you actually like.
England and Nazi Germany united against the real enemy in the East. | | | |
| Churchill and Wales on 07:37 - Jan 18 with 1127 views | Lohengrin |
| Churchill and Wales on 01:28 - Jan 18 by Humpty |
Just to be clear, when you and Jack Meoff are talking about Hitler taking on "international finance" do you actually mean Jews? |
No, Hump. We've been here before haven't we? The last time I reeled off a list of the dozen or so biggest players in The City and Wall Street inter-war, none of whom were Jewish.
Just to make it crystal clear I'm not using 'finance' as a code-word for Jewish. I don't believe in any nonsense about Jewish conspiracies and I am not, nor ever have been, some sort of cranky holocaust denier.
That do 'ya? | |
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| Churchill and Wales on 08:09 - Jan 18 with 1103 views | exhmrc1 |
| Churchill and Wales on 21:49 - Jan 17 by perchrockjack |
English and Germans on the same side
What disgusting comment which has not been challenged
Talk to people in England who survived the blitz and those whose descendants were slaughtered on the Somme.
You're truly a filthy piece of shite trampie, narrow minded and pitiful in equal measure ,a reason why Welsh people simply feck off from a land with clowns like you spouting this insulting drivel |
You're truly a filthy piece of shite trampie, narrow minded and pitiful in equal measure ,a reason why Welsh people simply feck off from a land with clowns like you spouting this insulting drivel
and you wonder why people turn on you. Shameful personal attack on an individual and our country.. If the likes of you feck off then our country is better off without them. | | | |
| Churchill and Wales on 09:29 - Jan 18 with 1085 views | perchrockjack |
Hump.
Reading it again ,no question that there is a cleR inference by trampie that Enlish people were in agreement with and supported nazi aims .
Highly offensive | |
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| Churchill and Wales on 09:35 - Jan 18 with 1078 views | Jack_Meoff |
| Churchill and Wales on 01:28 - Jan 18 by Humpty |
Just to be clear, when you and Jack Meoff are talking about Hitler taking on "international finance" do you actually mean Jews? |
No mate. I'm speaking about the demons who have monopolised and commoditized money via their central bank model and lend said money, at interest, to countries whilst skimming off eye watering amounts of usurious interest. The parasitic entities who have created a tsunami of debt that will one day drown us all.
According to Carroll Quigley in 'Tragedy and Hope', the main banking families at the turn of the 20th century were as follows: Baring, Lazard, Warburg, Shroeder, Erlinger, Astor, Marley, Gould, Rothschild and Morgan (as well as few other whose spelling evades me right now...). These families are from all denominations, so to dismiss it as 'the jews' would be a lazy stereotype. I'd hope to be a bit more objective than that. [Post edited 18 Jan 2018 11:36]
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| If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face--forever. |
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| Churchill and Wales on 09:47 - Jan 18 with 1069 views | trampie |
No inference at all Perch, the English and Germans are often seen as cousins, I have read it and heard it a million times, they are closely related and often throughout history they are on the same side, its the French they both seem to have a problem with historically and in England's case due to proximity no doubt they also had issues with Wales, Ireland and Scotland.
When Wales last invaded England we joined up with the French but the French went home early, Ireland had the French on board in the Irish rebellion.
England teamed up with the Germans against Napoleon, its one of the stark things that in recent times eg the last two World wars the English and Germans were on different sides.
I take it you have seen photos of the English royal family doing German salutes ? and that you know they have changed their German names not all that long ago historically to sound more Anglicised don't you ? [Post edited 18 Jan 2018 9:48]
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| Churchill and Wales on 09:54 - Jan 18 with 1057 views | Lohengrin |
| Churchill and Wales on 09:35 - Jan 18 by Jack_Meoff |
No mate. I'm speaking about the demons who have monopolised and commoditized money via their central bank model and lend said money, at interest, to countries whilst skimming off eye watering amounts of usurious interest. The parasitic entities who have created a tsunami of debt that will one day drown us all.
According to Carroll Quigley in 'Tragedy and Hope', the main banking families at the turn of the 20th century were as follows: Baring, Lazard, Warburg, Shroeder, Erlinger, Astor, Marley, Gould, Rothschild and Morgan (as well as few other whose spelling evades me right now...). These families are from all denominations, so to dismiss it as 'the jews' would be a lazy stereotype. I'd hope to be a bit more objective than that. [Post edited 18 Jan 2018 11:36]
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It's a useful tool though, Jack, blunted now through over-use, but still continuously employed. If you question globalism, if you believe that the ease of movement of capital has a detrimental effect, often a devastating effect on national economies, then you are ipso facto an anti semite.
It's complete nonsense, of course, you don't need to be told that, but when this same 'capital' controls most of the media outlets then implanting nonsense into public consciousness has never been that difficult. [Post edited 18 Jan 2018 10:11]
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| Churchill and Wales on 09:55 - Jan 18 with 1055 views | trampie |
| Churchill and Wales on 01:38 - Jan 18 by Humpty |
That could be directed at other people on this thread Perch. People you actually like.
England and Nazi Germany united against the real enemy in the East. |
Yes Humpty based on previous posts it seems quite clear there are a few on here that would have liked England and Nazi Germany to have been on the same side to fight the big bear.
What say you Lohengrin and Perch ???  | |
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| Churchill and Wales on 09:58 - Jan 18 with 1046 views | Lohengrin |
| Churchill and Wales on 09:55 - Jan 18 by trampie |
Yes Humpty based on previous posts it seems quite clear there are a few on here that would have liked England and Nazi Germany to have been on the same side to fight the big bear.
What say you Lohengrin and Perch ??? |
What was Plaid's stance in 1939, Hump? | |
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