| Churchill and Wales 10:57 - Jan 17 with 24587 views | trampie |
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| Churchill and Wales on 10:04 - Jan 18 with 1465 views | perchrockjack |
I say you are utterly skewed in your perceptions .
Wales IS part of England . Fact. It's arguable it's a nation.
England and Germany ! . Wales England Scotland NI United |  |
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| Churchill and Wales on 10:43 - Jan 18 with 1433 views | trampie |
| Churchill and Wales on 09:58 - Jan 18 by Lohengrin |
What was Plaid's stance in 1939, Hump? |
I have had to pull you up accusing people of drinking when there is no evidence, you like to say anybody with an opposing view to you is mad to try and discredit them, you put up images of atrocities to back up one side of an argument when you know full well that somebody with an opposing view could put up images of atrocities committed by the other side but that would lead to chaos and you do stuff like this where you know book after book has been written in recent times all saying that the establishment tried to do a number on them to discredit them to stop Wales becoming another Ireland/breaking away from the union, I don't know why Brit Nats sink so low but they do, everytime. | |
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| Churchill and Wales on 10:56 - Jan 18 with 1421 views | Lohengrin |
| Churchill and Wales on 10:43 - Jan 18 by trampie |
I have had to pull you up accusing people of drinking when there is no evidence, you like to say anybody with an opposing view to you is mad to try and discredit them, you put up images of atrocities to back up one side of an argument when you know full well that somebody with an opposing view could put up images of atrocities committed by the other side but that would lead to chaos and you do stuff like this where you know book after book has been written in recent times all saying that the establishment tried to do a number on them to discredit them to stop Wales becoming another Ireland/breaking away from the union, I don't know why Brit Nats sink so low but they do, everytime. |
If you don't know it's easier just to say, Tramp. I probably couldn't even begin to count the topics I couldn't elaborate on. There's no shame in it. |  |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Churchill and Wales on 11:00 - Jan 18 with 1412 views | trampie |
| Churchill and Wales on 10:56 - Jan 18 by Lohengrin |
If you don't know it's easier just to say, Tramp. I probably couldn't even begin to count the topics I couldn't elaborate on. There's no shame in it. |
I do know and you don't know that is why you are asking. | |
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| Churchill and Wales on 11:30 - Jan 18 with 1404 views | Lohengrin |
| Churchill and Wales on 11:00 - Jan 18 by trampie |
I do know and you don't know that is why you are asking. |
I'm sitting here with a folder containing most, if not all of Plaid's pamphlets in the English language, published between 1936 and 1944 so off you go, Tramp. You show me your truth and I'll show you Saunders'. | |
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| Churchill and Wales on 12:09 - Jan 18 with 1386 views | trampie |
| Churchill and Wales on 11:30 - Jan 18 by Lohengrin |
I'm sitting here with a folder containing most, if not all of Plaid's pamphlets in the English language, published between 1936 and 1944 so off you go, Tramp. You show me your truth and I'll show you Saunders'. |
I know their position you are clearly indicating that their position is something else, so if you have got something to say then say it. | |
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| Churchill and Wales on 12:35 - Jan 18 with 1378 views | Kerouac |
Lohengrin
In your considered opinion what was Plaid's stance towards WWII? |  |
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| Churchill and Wales on 12:36 - Jan 18 with 1377 views | Lohengrin |
| Churchill and Wales on 12:09 - Jan 18 by trampie |
I know their position you are clearly indicating that their position is something else, so if you have got something to say then say it. |
Clearly indicating? Is that what I'm doing? I thought I was sitting here with the actual source documents waiting to see how far removed your perception is from reality, Comrade. | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Churchill and Wales on 13:02 - Jan 18 with 1370 views | Lohengrin |
| Churchill and Wales on 12:35 - Jan 18 by Kerouac |
Lohengrin
In your considered opinion what was Plaid's stance towards WWII? |
That it was a disaster. A disaster for the whole of Europe. That neutrality and a desire to see a cessation of hostilities was the only principled stance that a Christian Wales could take.I brought religion in to it there, Kerouac, because that is exactly what Plaid did in the period. Both its platform rhetoric and literature are peppered through with the Christian message. Its leadership composed entirely of devout, practicing men.
What was their attitude to Hitler? Quite fluid. It moved incrementally from qualified enthusiasm, to ambivalence, to horror in the post-war years as the scale of atrocity was revealed. They were hardly alone in making that journey.
These were men who had fought in The Great War and didn't want another. Not only for the totality of what they had witnessed and endured but in recognition that civilisation, European civilisation itself had began to teeter in '14/'18. Another war they feared would destroy it. Again these were academic men, cultured, educated men with a deep understanding of the west's literature and arts and were pledged to see that legacy protected and enhanced. It's interesting when we laugh along at Trampie's insular ranting to acknowledge that Plaid's leadership of the period self-identified first and foremost as 'European.' Nationalists, yes, but they sought to honour and embrace not only local custom and tradition but our shared, pan-European heritage. | |
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| Churchill and Wales on 14:13 - Jan 18 with 1345 views | trampie |
Leanne Wood and Plaid are very pro European, no difference there then. | |
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| Churchill and Wales on 16:24 - Jan 18 with 1296 views | Lohengrin |
| Churchill and Wales on 14:13 - Jan 18 by trampie |
Leanne Wood and Plaid are very pro European, no difference there then. |
Lewis saw it as a mansion of The Lord, Leanne thinks it's an Alms House.  | |
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| Churchill and Wales on 16:36 - Jan 18 with 1285 views | perchrockjack |
What tramps conveniently forgets that many millions loved Churchill as a leader and saw him as an inspiration.
Your tirade would have met with instant approbatium and from all social a classes
We truly have no idea as to what it was like .
None. We can read about it but I guess you d just had to be there | |
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| Churchill and Wales on 16:48 - Jan 18 with 1279 views | trampie |
Churchill lost General Elections in 1945 and 1950 and then had less votes in 1951. | |
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| Churchill and Wales on 18:21 - Jan 18 with 1251 views | Lord_Bony |
| Churchill and Wales on 16:48 - Jan 18 by trampie |
Churchill lost General Elections in 1945 and 1950 and then had less votes in 1951. |
What a stupid thing for Leanne Wood to have said in the OP about Winston Churchill.
Shame on her. |  |
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| Churchill and Wales on 18:50 - Jan 18 with 1233 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Churchill and Wales on 10:04 - Jan 18 by perchrockjack |
I say you are utterly skewed in your perceptions .
Wales IS part of England . Fact. It's arguable it's a nation.
England and Germany ! . Wales England Scotland NI United |
No its not.
England is England.
Wales is Wales.
They are both nations in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
See ....if you were correct then there would be no need for all this fuss, they would just say ‘England’.
You cant educate pork. |  |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Churchill and Wales on 18:56 - Jan 18 with 1230 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Churchill and Wales on 09:58 - Jan 18 by Lohengrin |
What was Plaid's stance in 1939, Hump? |
What was Perch’s stance in 1939 ?
He was about 20 at the time. | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Churchill and Wales on 19:05 - Jan 18 with 1223 views | Lohengrin |
| Churchill and Wales on 18:56 - Jan 18 by Kilkennyjack |
What was Perch’s stance in 1939 ?
He was about 20 at the time. |
That's cold!  | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Churchill and Wales on 19:05 - Jan 18 with 1223 views | trampie |
| Churchill and Wales on 18:21 - Jan 18 by Lord_Bony |
What a stupid thing for Leanne Wood to have said in the OP about Winston Churchill.
Shame on her. |
I'm from the other side of Craig y Llyn to the Rhondda, I'm from a mining village and he was hated by the older generation, nice sensible people that I knew hated him with a passion, his politics and his ethics. | |
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| Churchill and Wales on 19:08 - Jan 18 with 1219 views | perchrockjack |
I know TV was late coming to the valleys but you have to understand you are on the minority as Churchill is a hero to most .
The fact he s not, to you ,Killy and the rest of the Valley , means jackshit | |
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| Churchill and Wales on 19:09 - Jan 18 with 1216 views | exiledclaseboy |
The notion that Churchill was universally admired by his peers and loved by the electorate at large is a fanciful fallacy coloured by his unarguable success as a war leader and the march of time painting the spectacles through which history is viewed a nice rose colour. |  |
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| Churchill and Wales on 19:14 - Jan 18 with 1212 views | trampie |
| Churchill and Wales on 19:08 - Jan 18 by perchrockjack |
I know TV was late coming to the valleys but you have to understand you are on the minority as Churchill is a hero to most .
The fact he s not, to you ,Killy and the rest of the Valley , means jackshit |
Look at elections he lost, he sent gunboats down the Mersey against the people in England, it just wasn't Llanelli (where people were killed by the military) or Rhondda he attacked the working class across the UK, his own people.
Owain Glyndwr came out top 10 all time for the last millennium per world leaders, scientists and engineers, Churchill was nowhere. | |
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| Churchill and Wales on 19:18 - Jan 18 with 1210 views | Lohengrin |
| Churchill and Wales on 19:09 - Jan 18 by exiledclaseboy |
The notion that Churchill was universally admired by his peers and loved by the electorate at large is a fanciful fallacy coloured by his unarguable success as a war leader and the march of time painting the spectacles through which history is viewed a nice rose colour. |
The media has raised him to a tribal deity, no question. Lloyd George on the other hand, unarguably Britain's most adept war leader, seems conversely to be slipping further from public consciousness year-on-year.
Why? Godwin's Law. Hitler and Churchill seem indelibly entwined. When the spectre of one is raised a shade of the other abides in its wake. | |
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| Churchill and Wales on 19:18 - Jan 18 with 1210 views | perchrockjack |
Hope that s not a reference to my posts.
I merely point out Churchill was NOT hated by all
Sorry if it doesn't fit and we re all victims of the past and what was handed down to us by parents and extended family. We cannot have any idea of what it was really like because we were not there
Taking the British view ,the wide picture ,only the truly jaundiced would argue Churchill was a great leader who saw this island through hard times . Chamberlain would have seen us screwed .
We re an ungrateful shower of feckers really, comforted and free in our favourite armchair | |
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| Churchill and Wales on 19:27 - Jan 18 with 1206 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Churchill and Wales on 19:18 - Jan 18 by perchrockjack |
Hope that s not a reference to my posts.
I merely point out Churchill was NOT hated by all
Sorry if it doesn't fit and we re all victims of the past and what was handed down to us by parents and extended family. We cannot have any idea of what it was really like because we were not there
Taking the British view ,the wide picture ,only the truly jaundiced would argue Churchill was a great leader who saw this island through hard times . Chamberlain would have seen us screwed .
We re an ungrateful shower of feckers really, comforted and free in our favourite armchair |
My own view is that Churchill was a great war leader. Who knows what the outcome would have been had someone else succeeded Chamberlain. No one can say for sure. He was also a political opportunist, and old school colonialist, wasn’t a fan of jews and wasn’t averse to the odd bung or two. He also lost more elections than he won as party leader. Even the one he “won” was arguable. | |
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| Churchill and Wales on 19:38 - Jan 18 with 1197 views | trampie |
The internet age means people that are interested know more about events the media and state education are less effective and I don't say this to wind anybody up the way Churchill is percieved has taken a hit during the internet years and the other one with a big swing is the troubles in N.Ireland the ones that were seen as the goodies years ago pre internet are no longer viewed as such and the baddies are now seen as the goodies by lots of neutrals, the power of the net makes it harder to hide things. | |
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