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Christopher Hitchens 13:50 - Jan 19 with 12363 viewsLohengrin

Any other admirers on here? I'm about fifty or so pages from finishing a re-reading of Why Orwell Matters and seriously considering going back to the start and doing it all over again for the third time. I've read any number of commentaries on Orwell, any that have come up over the years, really, but Hitchens is in a class all his own.

You may not agree with everything he has to say, I certainly haven't on many occasions, on any number of themes, but you can't but help admire the way he put his views across. It's such a shame he was taken before the Trump Presidency he would have made for compulsive, hilarious reading.

An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it.

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Christopher Hitchens on 15:34 - Jan 19 with 1130 viewslondonlisa2001

Christopher Hitchens on 15:21 - Jan 19 by Mo_Wives

Perfect.

London Lisa, put down the outrage and step away from the fruitcakes...you're far too smart a woman to be buying into their bullshit, tbh.


You either genuinely misunderstand my position or find it easier to dismiss by misstating it.
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Christopher Hitchens on 15:39 - Jan 19 with 1127 viewslondonlisa2001

Christopher Hitchens on 15:29 - Jan 19 by Mo_Wives

Individualism? What? have you heard of intersectionality where people are ranked by their groups? Everything they do is about the group and nothing is about the individual. "White people must shut up and let black people speak because black people are marginalised".

SJW's are collectivists that see everything through group power dynamics.


Nope.

Some of them are. The ones I described earlier as idiots who take things to extremes.

Most people that you would describe as SJWs are simply opposed to the existing group power dynamics.
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Christopher Hitchens on 15:40 - Jan 19 with 1127 viewslondonlisa2001

Christopher Hitchens on 15:31 - Jan 19 by Mo_Wives

I DISAGREE WITH THE ALT-RIGHT, LISA. I AM NOT ALT-RIGHT. HAVE YOU EVER HEARD ME DESCRIBE MYSELF AS AN SJW?


I didn't say you were.

Not everything is about you mo.
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Christopher Hitchens on 15:41 - Jan 19 with 1127 viewsMo_Wives

Christopher Hitchens on 15:34 - Jan 19 by londonlisa2001

You either genuinely misunderstand my position or find it easier to dismiss by misstating it.


I honestly think you don't understand what SJW's and the Alt-right are. I believe you to be a very intelligent woman, Lisa and if you went and watched people like Dr Jordan Peterson you would see they are not the hate preachers the media call them (not just him). I honestly don't think you are an SJW. I think you are more of a classical liberal. Unfortunately, people who are only learning about these subjects through the mainstream media are getting a very distorted view of it. I may be wrong but I think you may be one of them.

Good luck, Mr Cooper

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Christopher Hitchens on 15:41 - Jan 19 with 1126 viewsLohengrin

Christopher Hitchens on 15:16 - Jan 19 by londonlisa2001

Nonsense.

As with all things, there are a small number of idiots who take it to the extreme, but the underlying theme is one of social tolerance and individualism. Non conformity to the accepted norms of society and an unwillingness to allow that society to compound those norms through discrimination, the use of law, or the excuse of religion. Hitchens would have agreed with all of that.

People make the mistake of assuming him to be a step further right than his idiot brother. Nothing could be further from the truth.

On the flair for upsetting everyone - I agree - it was his raison d'être. He was deliberately provocative. It's a shallow reading of him that makes some think he believed much of it.


You've made liberal use of the brush there, love, you've gone right across the palette, but no matter how many angles I look at it from I don't recognise the picture you've painted of them at all.



As for the Alt-right, if you have the time to listen to this, love, do. When he's on best behaviour young Milo can come across quite Hitch-like. He may actually be doing something of an impression?


An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it.

1
Christopher Hitchens on 15:42 - Jan 19 with 1121 viewsLohengrin

Christopher Hitchens on 15:40 - Jan 19 by londonlisa2001

I didn't say you were.

Not everything is about you mo.


Oof!

An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it.

1
Christopher Hitchens on 15:45 - Jan 19 with 1114 viewsMo_Wives

Christopher Hitchens on 15:39 - Jan 19 by londonlisa2001

Nope.

Some of them are. The ones I described earlier as idiots who take things to extremes.

Most people that you would describe as SJWs are simply opposed to the existing group power dynamics.


Social Justice is about getting 'justice' for GROUPS that have been historically oppressed. It is all about groups. And yes they are opposed to existing group power dynamics...they want to reshape society with different groups on top. They want to rearrange it, not treat people as individuals.

Good luck, Mr Cooper

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Christopher Hitchens on 15:49 - Jan 19 with 1108 viewsMo_Wives

Christopher Hitchens on 15:40 - Jan 19 by londonlisa2001

I didn't say you were.

Not everything is about you mo.


I didn't say you said I was.

If I think every commentator who disagrees with the Alt-right is an SJW...
And I also disagree with the Alt-right...
Then I would class myself as an SJW...
Which I don't...
So I don't think everyone who disagrees with the Alt-right is an SJW.

Good luck, Mr Cooper

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Christopher Hitchens on 15:50 - Jan 19 with 1106 viewsLohengrin

Christopher Hitchens on 15:45 - Jan 19 by Mo_Wives

Social Justice is about getting 'justice' for GROUPS that have been historically oppressed. It is all about groups. And yes they are opposed to existing group power dynamics...they want to reshape society with different groups on top. They want to rearrange it, not treat people as individuals.


The really frightening thing, Mo, the thing that keeps me awake at night is the creepy f**ks want to try and do it through the medium of dance!


An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it.

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Christopher Hitchens on 15:50 - Jan 19 with 1106 viewslondonlisa2001

Christopher Hitchens on 15:41 - Jan 19 by Mo_Wives

I honestly think you don't understand what SJW's and the Alt-right are. I believe you to be a very intelligent woman, Lisa and if you went and watched people like Dr Jordan Peterson you would see they are not the hate preachers the media call them (not just him). I honestly don't think you are an SJW. I think you are more of a classical liberal. Unfortunately, people who are only learning about these subjects through the mainstream media are getting a very distorted view of it. I may be wrong but I think you may be one of them.


It's not that I don't understand what SJWs are, it's that the label is used so broadly (as an insult) that what you mean by it, and what in general is meant by it, may well be two different things. Same with alt-right.

When you say SJW, you individually may well mean a bunch of ridiculous screaming nutters who see offence everywhere, take offence at everything and automatically assume that the 'underdog' is right. Millie Tant writ large if you like.

However, the term is used far more generally than that, to mean everyone that shares similar views to myself. People, ironically, who do display traits if wanting social justice. Not just for some groups. But for all.

So when it is used in conversation, I find it too narrow to assume that only the first group is being talked about, as it is equally used (actually more often used), to mean anyone that holds what you describe as classically liberal views.
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Christopher Hitchens on 15:50 - Jan 19 with 1104 viewsMo_Wives

Christopher Hitchens on 15:42 - Jan 19 by Lohengrin

Oof!



Good luck, Mr Cooper

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Christopher Hitchens on 15:52 - Jan 19 with 1103 viewslondonlisa2001

Christopher Hitchens on 15:49 - Jan 19 by Mo_Wives

I didn't say you said I was.

If I think every commentator who disagrees with the Alt-right is an SJW...
And I also disagree with the Alt-right...
Then I would class myself as an SJW...
Which I don't...
So I don't think everyone who disagrees with the Alt-right is an SJW.


It was an analogy Mo to the 'everyone that doesn't agree with the SJWs is alt-right'.

I don't agree with it (in either direction).
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Christopher Hitchens on 15:54 - Jan 19 with 1101 viewsLohengrin

Christopher Hitchens on 15:50 - Jan 19 by londonlisa2001

It's not that I don't understand what SJWs are, it's that the label is used so broadly (as an insult) that what you mean by it, and what in general is meant by it, may well be two different things. Same with alt-right.

When you say SJW, you individually may well mean a bunch of ridiculous screaming nutters who see offence everywhere, take offence at everything and automatically assume that the 'underdog' is right. Millie Tant writ large if you like.

However, the term is used far more generally than that, to mean everyone that shares similar views to myself. People, ironically, who do display traits if wanting social justice. Not just for some groups. But for all.

So when it is used in conversation, I find it too narrow to assume that only the first group is being talked about, as it is equally used (actually more often used), to mean anyone that holds what you describe as classically liberal views.


In fairness to myself and Mo, and I'm all for that ( ), when the likes of he or I use the term SJW we really are referring to those you highlighted in your second paragraph.

An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it.

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Christopher Hitchens on 15:54 - Jan 19 with 1100 viewsMo_Wives

Christopher Hitchens on 15:50 - Jan 19 by londonlisa2001

It's not that I don't understand what SJWs are, it's that the label is used so broadly (as an insult) that what you mean by it, and what in general is meant by it, may well be two different things. Same with alt-right.

When you say SJW, you individually may well mean a bunch of ridiculous screaming nutters who see offence everywhere, take offence at everything and automatically assume that the 'underdog' is right. Millie Tant writ large if you like.

However, the term is used far more generally than that, to mean everyone that shares similar views to myself. People, ironically, who do display traits if wanting social justice. Not just for some groups. But for all.

So when it is used in conversation, I find it too narrow to assume that only the first group is being talked about, as it is equally used (actually more often used), to mean anyone that holds what you describe as classically liberal views.


Well on this we agree.

When I say SJW I'm talking about an activist (or those who support their actions) who puts social groups above individuals. And yes now and again I may use it as an insult where it does not apply for the LOLZ.

Good luck, Mr Cooper

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Christopher Hitchens on 15:57 - Jan 19 with 1096 viewslondonlisa2001

Christopher Hitchens on 15:41 - Jan 19 by Lohengrin

You've made liberal use of the brush there, love, you've gone right across the palette, but no matter how many angles I look at it from I don't recognise the picture you've painted of them at all.



As for the Alt-right, if you have the time to listen to this, love, do. When he's on best behaviour young Milo can come across quite Hitch-like. He may actually be doing something of an impression?



Nope, I really don't think I will.

Milo is a repulsive creature who will do anything and say anything for self promotion (including changing his religion and sexuality). I can't believe you are taken in by him to be honest. Hitchens would have loathed him.
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Christopher Hitchens on 15:59 - Jan 19 with 1092 viewsLohengrin

Christopher Hitchens on 15:57 - Jan 19 by londonlisa2001

Nope, I really don't think I will.

Milo is a repulsive creature who will do anything and say anything for self promotion (including changing his religion and sexuality). I can't believe you are taken in by him to be honest. Hitchens would have loathed him.


Was he not homosexual before he joined the staff of Breitbart then? Good Lord!

An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it.

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Christopher Hitchens on 16:00 - Jan 19 with 1089 viewsMo_Wives

Christopher Hitchens on 15:41 - Jan 19 by Lohengrin

You've made liberal use of the brush there, love, you've gone right across the palette, but no matter how many angles I look at it from I don't recognise the picture you've painted of them at all.



As for the Alt-right, if you have the time to listen to this, love, do. When he's on best behaviour young Milo can come across quite Hitch-like. He may actually be doing something of an impression?



Milo's a funny one, tbh. At first when he was in the UK and early into his US stuff he was quick of wit and just as you describe. He then seemed to go pantomime because he understood the value of controversy. So I respect the man but am not a fan or follower of his. But some his early stuff (pre Sgt Pepper) was superb.

Good luck, Mr Cooper

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Christopher Hitchens on 16:03 - Jan 19 with 1082 viewsMo_Wives

Christopher Hitchens on 15:57 - Jan 19 by londonlisa2001

Nope, I really don't think I will.

Milo is a repulsive creature who will do anything and say anything for self promotion (including changing his religion and sexuality). I can't believe you are taken in by him to be honest. Hitchens would have loathed him.


Hang on, are you denying his sexuality?

If someone accused a 'Trans' person of putting it on for attention you would be all over them and calling them Alt-right.

Good luck, Mr Cooper

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Christopher Hitchens on 16:06 - Jan 19 with 1079 viewsLohengrin

Christopher Hitchens on 16:00 - Jan 19 by Mo_Wives

Milo's a funny one, tbh. At first when he was in the UK and early into his US stuff he was quick of wit and just as you describe. He then seemed to go pantomime because he understood the value of controversy. So I respect the man but am not a fan or follower of his. But some his early stuff (pre Sgt Pepper) was superb.


He seems to have had a wake up call. Courting controversy is one thing but you can go too far as he found out. Reined in and going back to where he started could be the re-making of him.

He makes people think, even if it's just to formulate a counter to what he may have just come out with and that can only be a good thing. Too many, far too many are just blindly accepting, dissent is always healthy.

An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it.

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Christopher Hitchens on 16:08 - Jan 19 with 1077 viewsMo_Wives

Christopher Hitchens on 16:06 - Jan 19 by Lohengrin

He seems to have had a wake up call. Courting controversy is one thing but you can go too far as he found out. Reined in and going back to where he started could be the re-making of him.

He makes people think, even if it's just to formulate a counter to what he may have just come out with and that can only be a good thing. Too many, far too many are just blindly accepting, dissent is always healthy.


I haven't seen much of him lately, Loh. Not since before the riots, tbh. As I respect your opinion I will catch up with him.

Good luck, Mr Cooper

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Christopher Hitchens on 16:09 - Jan 19 with 1075 viewslondonlisa2001

Christopher Hitchens on 15:59 - Jan 19 by Lohengrin

Was he not homosexual before he joined the staff of Breitbart then? Good Lord!


Nor Jewish.

Being a straight white affluent Catholic wasn't getting him enough oxygen as he was just another straight white affluent Catholic with extreme views.

If you want a laugh, the editor's comments of his 'book' have circulated quite widely on social media. The proof reader / editor is hilarious in his initially barely concealed, later open, disdain.
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Christopher Hitchens on 16:10 - Jan 19 with 1074 viewsMo_Wives

Christopher Hitchens on 15:57 - Jan 19 by londonlisa2001

Nope, I really don't think I will.

Milo is a repulsive creature who will do anything and say anything for self promotion (including changing his religion and sexuality). I can't believe you are taken in by him to be honest. Hitchens would have loathed him.


Excuse me staff. Could we have a stewards inquiry into whether or not this is hate speech. Thank you.

Good luck, Mr Cooper

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Christopher Hitchens on 16:11 - Jan 19 with 1072 viewspikeypaul

Christopher Hitchens on 15:16 - Jan 19 by londonlisa2001

Nonsense.

As with all things, there are a small number of idiots who take it to the extreme, but the underlying theme is one of social tolerance and individualism. Non conformity to the accepted norms of society and an unwillingness to allow that society to compound those norms through discrimination, the use of law, or the excuse of religion. Hitchens would have agreed with all of that.

People make the mistake of assuming him to be a step further right than his idiot brother. Nothing could be further from the truth.

On the flair for upsetting everyone - I agree - it was his raison d'être. He was deliberately provocative. It's a shallow reading of him that makes some think he believed much of it.


More nonsense from the silly little girl.

I hope she has fresh batteries for her toy.

OUT AFLI SUCK IT UP REMOANER LOSERS 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧
Poll: Where wil Judas be sitting when we play Millwall?

-2
Christopher Hitchens on 16:15 - Jan 19 with 1066 viewsLohengrin

Christopher Hitchens on 16:09 - Jan 19 by londonlisa2001

Nor Jewish.

Being a straight white affluent Catholic wasn't getting him enough oxygen as he was just another straight white affluent Catholic with extreme views.

If you want a laugh, the editor's comments of his 'book' have circulated quite widely on social media. The proof reader / editor is hilarious in his initially barely concealed, later open, disdain.


Blimey! I've been mulling over an approach from Bannon but he didn't give a hint of any sort of transformation implicit in my signing up.

An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it.

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Christopher Hitchens on 16:15 - Jan 19 with 1066 viewsMo_Wives

Christopher Hitchens on 16:09 - Jan 19 by londonlisa2001

Nor Jewish.

Being a straight white affluent Catholic wasn't getting him enough oxygen as he was just another straight white affluent Catholic with extreme views.

If you want a laugh, the editor's comments of his 'book' have circulated quite widely on social media. The proof reader / editor is hilarious in his initially barely concealed, later open, disdain.


If someone was a Christian and straight and then one day announced that they were gay and now an atheist, would you hold that against them?

Good luck, Mr Cooper

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