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Stadium deal agreed 10:01 - Feb 17 with 63856 viewsDr_Winston





This post has been edited by an administrator

Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back.

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Stadium deal agreed on 16:44 - Feb 18 with 1959 viewsmax936

Stadium deal agreed on 16:19 - Feb 18 by Swanzay

The Trust have recent past history of this, its simply staggering that not all Trust board members where not either consulted or notified.

It seems that certain Trust board members have a serious superiority complex.

Openness, communication and transparency are still null and void, it seems.


It gives the impression that those are sitting on the laps of the sellouts, past relationships are perhaps still flourishing unbelievably.

Poll: Will it Snow this coming Winter

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Stadium deal agreed on 16:46 - Feb 18 with 1954 viewsmonmouth

McDonald and Lewis are just tea boys. It is eminently clear to me that we need a proper Board level operator in there and I wish to God we would just stop pissing about and Lisa could just do it, even though I know she hasn’t the time or isn’t a member of the Trust board. But by Jesus we need someone senior in there to sort these people out and to challenge the club board. It is well beyond a f**king joke now.

McDonald, Lewis, Brooks etc, just get out and find a church committee to run. Like others, I’ve had a gutsful. Don’t you dare say you’ve learnt lessons again neither. Just f*ck off.

Unfortunately all the damage is now done. There’s only one act left. When are we going to court to get the money to secure the future when it all goes tits up?
[Post edited 18 Feb 2018 16:48]

Poll: TRUST MEMBERS: What DID you vote in the, um, vote

4
Stadium deal agreed on 16:54 - Feb 18 with 1926 viewsmax936

Stadium deal agreed on 16:30 - Feb 18 by londonlisa2001

Answering a few questions that have been raised in one reply rather than lots:

- yes, I knew that the lease transfer was in the offing as it had been discussed on here a few times.
- any discussions that may have been had around that by the Trust happened before my time. There have been no discussions about it since I have been involved.
- I believed that when details were finalised, they would be passed to the Trust in their role as shareholder and director of the club.
- I assumed that those details and the documentation would be circulated to the Trust board and affiliates for detailed review, discussion and ultimately a vote on what position the Trust should take.
- Since nothing has been mentioned in my time, I assumed that there was nothing imminent. There was absolutely no reason to suppose otherwise.

To reiterate, I found out about this by seeing this thread. I also received an email to that effect from the Trust Chair (after having already seen it on here).

I believe that some members of the Trust board received details and documentation - this was not passed on to me, nor to Andrew. I also believe that the timing took people by surprise, which may account for the lack of discussion and review and circulation of documents beforehand.

I sent a rather strongly worded email to the whole of the Trust board yesterday as soon as I saw what had happened. I also asked to see any documents that were in circulation. As of now, I haven't received any documents nor had any response to my email. I know that Andrew also sent an email.

I have no knowledge of the deal other than what has been said on here. I have read the club statement on the official website as well, and I note that it says "Swans take sole control of the Stadium Management Company" which is interesting, as I had understood from what was said on here previously that the lease was moving to the club, whereas that wording suggests that the lease has remained with Stadco, but the Swans have now acquired Stadco.

Does that matter? Who knows. With property deals, the devil is always in the detail. Length of lease, break clauses, initial rental, rent review frequency and terms, reversion rights, etc etc.

I sit on the board of a FTSE property company, and so know how complex these agreements can be.

I am very unhappy that I was not provided with any info. Not least because, as can be seen on here, there is an expectation that I would be, and that I am somehow to blame for not knowing what is happening.

It's all very well Chris, saying that I, or Andrew, should demand information. Don't you think that we haven't? I have been challenging Board members over any number of issues fairly constantly since becoming involved. I can also say categorically that Andrew has done the same. Some of what I say has an effect, some, quite transparently does not.

All I can do is either decide to say 'f*ck it' and walk away now, or to remain involved and try to have an impact. At the moment, I've chosen the latter as I remain adamant that the Trust need to take action against the sale and I'm doing everything I can to influence that. Hopefully people will see some updates on that over the next few weeks as was promised to members previously.

On this issue, in summary, I believe that the Trust now need to review all documentation very carefully and make a public statement about whether the deal is good, bad or indifferent for the club. But that's just my opinion. Others may disagree, and they may hold the majority view.


Lisa I for one thank both you and Andrew for your efforts, but there seems to be clear agenda's in the Trust to stay close to the Yanks irrespective of whether things are good or bad.
My belief is that if and when this share sale raises its head again it'll ushered away and signed, it seems clear that McDonald sees it that way.

Poll: Will it Snow this coming Winter

0
Stadium deal agreed on 16:55 - Feb 18 with 1919 viewsTheResurrection

Stadium deal agreed on 16:30 - Feb 18 by londonlisa2001

Answering a few questions that have been raised in one reply rather than lots:

- yes, I knew that the lease transfer was in the offing as it had been discussed on here a few times.
- any discussions that may have been had around that by the Trust happened before my time. There have been no discussions about it since I have been involved.
- I believed that when details were finalised, they would be passed to the Trust in their role as shareholder and director of the club.
- I assumed that those details and the documentation would be circulated to the Trust board and affiliates for detailed review, discussion and ultimately a vote on what position the Trust should take.
- Since nothing has been mentioned in my time, I assumed that there was nothing imminent. There was absolutely no reason to suppose otherwise.

To reiterate, I found out about this by seeing this thread. I also received an email to that effect from the Trust Chair (after having already seen it on here).

I believe that some members of the Trust board received details and documentation - this was not passed on to me, nor to Andrew. I also believe that the timing took people by surprise, which may account for the lack of discussion and review and circulation of documents beforehand.

I sent a rather strongly worded email to the whole of the Trust board yesterday as soon as I saw what had happened. I also asked to see any documents that were in circulation. As of now, I haven't received any documents nor had any response to my email. I know that Andrew also sent an email.

I have no knowledge of the deal other than what has been said on here. I have read the club statement on the official website as well, and I note that it says "Swans take sole control of the Stadium Management Company" which is interesting, as I had understood from what was said on here previously that the lease was moving to the club, whereas that wording suggests that the lease has remained with Stadco, but the Swans have now acquired Stadco.

Does that matter? Who knows. With property deals, the devil is always in the detail. Length of lease, break clauses, initial rental, rent review frequency and terms, reversion rights, etc etc.

I sit on the board of a FTSE property company, and so know how complex these agreements can be.

I am very unhappy that I was not provided with any info. Not least because, as can be seen on here, there is an expectation that I would be, and that I am somehow to blame for not knowing what is happening.

It's all very well Chris, saying that I, or Andrew, should demand information. Don't you think that we haven't? I have been challenging Board members over any number of issues fairly constantly since becoming involved. I can also say categorically that Andrew has done the same. Some of what I say has an effect, some, quite transparently does not.

All I can do is either decide to say 'f*ck it' and walk away now, or to remain involved and try to have an impact. At the moment, I've chosen the latter as I remain adamant that the Trust need to take action against the sale and I'm doing everything I can to influence that. Hopefully people will see some updates on that over the next few weeks as was promised to members previously.

On this issue, in summary, I believe that the Trust now need to review all documentation very carefully and make a public statement about whether the deal is good, bad or indifferent for the club. But that's just my opinion. Others may disagree, and they may hold the majority view.


Fair enough Lisa but can't you see this is all we get from the Trust...... "I/we didn't know...."

When is someone going to stand up tall and say "I know, and now I'm telling you all"

If Stu MacDonald knew, along with Alan Lewis then you should immediately call them out on this and publicly ask them to stand down.

They are reminding me more and more of Sepp Blatter and FIFA. What's it going to take to get them out and the Trust to start getting its respect back? Do we need the facking FBI to move in or what?

* BOX OFFICE POST ABOVE* TM I am the resurrection and i am the light. I couldn’t ever bring myself to hate you as i’d like
Poll: Is it time for the Trust to make change happen?

3
Stadium deal agreed on 17:29 - Feb 18 with 1827 viewscockneyswan

Stadium deal agreed on 16:30 - Feb 18 by londonlisa2001

Answering a few questions that have been raised in one reply rather than lots:

- yes, I knew that the lease transfer was in the offing as it had been discussed on here a few times.
- any discussions that may have been had around that by the Trust happened before my time. There have been no discussions about it since I have been involved.
- I believed that when details were finalised, they would be passed to the Trust in their role as shareholder and director of the club.
- I assumed that those details and the documentation would be circulated to the Trust board and affiliates for detailed review, discussion and ultimately a vote on what position the Trust should take.
- Since nothing has been mentioned in my time, I assumed that there was nothing imminent. There was absolutely no reason to suppose otherwise.

To reiterate, I found out about this by seeing this thread. I also received an email to that effect from the Trust Chair (after having already seen it on here).

I believe that some members of the Trust board received details and documentation - this was not passed on to me, nor to Andrew. I also believe that the timing took people by surprise, which may account for the lack of discussion and review and circulation of documents beforehand.

I sent a rather strongly worded email to the whole of the Trust board yesterday as soon as I saw what had happened. I also asked to see any documents that were in circulation. As of now, I haven't received any documents nor had any response to my email. I know that Andrew also sent an email.

I have no knowledge of the deal other than what has been said on here. I have read the club statement on the official website as well, and I note that it says "Swans take sole control of the Stadium Management Company" which is interesting, as I had understood from what was said on here previously that the lease was moving to the club, whereas that wording suggests that the lease has remained with Stadco, but the Swans have now acquired Stadco.

Does that matter? Who knows. With property deals, the devil is always in the detail. Length of lease, break clauses, initial rental, rent review frequency and terms, reversion rights, etc etc.

I sit on the board of a FTSE property company, and so know how complex these agreements can be.

I am very unhappy that I was not provided with any info. Not least because, as can be seen on here, there is an expectation that I would be, and that I am somehow to blame for not knowing what is happening.

It's all very well Chris, saying that I, or Andrew, should demand information. Don't you think that we haven't? I have been challenging Board members over any number of issues fairly constantly since becoming involved. I can also say categorically that Andrew has done the same. Some of what I say has an effect, some, quite transparently does not.

All I can do is either decide to say 'f*ck it' and walk away now, or to remain involved and try to have an impact. At the moment, I've chosen the latter as I remain adamant that the Trust need to take action against the sale and I'm doing everything I can to influence that. Hopefully people will see some updates on that over the next few weeks as was promised to members previously.

On this issue, in summary, I believe that the Trust now need to review all documentation very carefully and make a public statement about whether the deal is good, bad or indifferent for the club. But that's just my opinion. Others may disagree, and they may hold the majority view.


Lisa I would like to thank you for your continued efforts to help the fans of Swansea City, unfortunately I think the Trust has lost the only chance of getting any control back to the fans by voting against legal action. I sincerely hope to be proved wrong in this but experience tells me I’m not.
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Stadium deal agreed on 17:38 - Feb 18 with 1805 viewsQJumpingJack

I am starting to think that the Americans are continuing with the "conquer and divide" rule.

By only giving the Trust snippets of info, they may be hoping that Trust board members and the members/fans turn on each other.
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Stadium deal agreed on 17:46 - Feb 18 with 1779 viewsTheResurrection

Stadium deal agreed on 17:38 - Feb 18 by QJumpingJack

I am starting to think that the Americans are continuing with the "conquer and divide" rule.

By only giving the Trust snippets of info, they may be hoping that Trust board members and the members/fans turn on each other.


No, no, you and others need to get this right.

The Americans told the Trust, it was the Trust that kept it to themselves, well two of them (it's looking like) did

Stu MacDonald and Alan Lewis.

They need sacking.

* BOX OFFICE POST ABOVE* TM I am the resurrection and i am the light. I couldn’t ever bring myself to hate you as i’d like
Poll: Is it time for the Trust to make change happen?

-1
Stadium deal agreed on 18:06 - Feb 18 with 1734 viewsDyfnant

If the club is sold, it’ll almost certainly be to people richer than the current lot.
Otherwise at least it means the Stadco directors no longer have their noses in the trough through that avenue. Win Win

Poll: How much will SCFC spend on transfer fees this summer

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Stadium deal agreed on 18:16 - Feb 18 with 1714 viewspencoedjack

Stadium deal agreed on 22:19 - Feb 17 by airedale

Yeah, I reckon the Americans are in it just for the money too. It’s a suspicion that’s been growing within me for some time.

I reckon they’ll try and make a profit out of their stadium lease as well.

The bastards.


In other news the moon is not made of cheese
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Stadium deal agreed on 18:19 - Feb 18 with 1704 viewsMoscowJack

Stadium deal agreed on 17:46 - Feb 18 by TheResurrection

No, no, you and others need to get this right.

The Americans told the Trust, it was the Trust that kept it to themselves, well two of them (it's looking like) did

Stu MacDonald and Alan Lewis.

They need sacking.


I can't see how Nigel Hamer wouldn't have known about this.

I'm still unsure of who the Trust's puppet-master is. I really hope it's not who I think it is, although it would explain a hell of a lot over the past 3 years or so!

Poll: Simple...would you want Leon in the squad right now, if he was available?

0
Stadium deal agreed on 18:21 - Feb 18 with 1691 viewsmonmouth

Stadium deal agreed on 18:19 - Feb 18 by MoscowJack

I can't see how Nigel Hamer wouldn't have known about this.

I'm still unsure of who the Trust's puppet-master is. I really hope it's not who I think it is, although it would explain a hell of a lot over the past 3 years or so!


Would he be related to someone in bed with a certain Harris, a football rainmaker at all?

Poll: TRUST MEMBERS: What DID you vote in the, um, vote

2
Stadium deal agreed on 18:22 - Feb 18 with 1686 viewsMoscowJack

Stadium deal agreed on 18:21 - Feb 18 by monmouth

Would he be related to someone in bed with a certain Harris, a football rainmaker at all?


It's orville of you to even suggest that ;)

Poll: Simple...would you want Leon in the squad right now, if he was available?

1
Stadium deal agreed on 18:35 - Feb 18 with 1656 viewsPhil_S

Stadium deal agreed on 17:46 - Feb 18 by TheResurrection

No, no, you and others need to get this right.

The Americans told the Trust, it was the Trust that kept it to themselves, well two of them (it's looking like) did

Stu MacDonald and Alan Lewis.

They need sacking.


It is hugely disappointing that it does seem that some have this information and have elected not to share it with the full trust board
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Stadium deal agreed on 18:37 - Feb 18 with 1651 viewsLord_Bony

Stadium deal agreed on 14:54 - Feb 18 by Phil_S

Interestingly although my position meant I was at the heart of the negotiations, I was never afforded any ability to make decisions on behalf of the board (which is how it should be). All decisions that needed to be made were passed back to the board unless there was a mandate in place to do certain things

The lack of that decision making ability was not a reason for standing down but the board not backing my view that the Americans were going to continue in their ways was.


It seems there is no real authority in the decision making.

The Trust just puts out major decisions out for the vote of the subscribed fans.

This is wrong in my opinion as most have no idea of what is going on behind the scenes and the complexity and technicalities of certain legal positions. Often a false reading is taken by the board as a result of what action to take next.

There needs to be a few at the helm steering the ship making the main decisions on behalf of the Trust with a vote put to the board if necessary. But they need the respect and authority to be able to take decisive action. The case of the QC for example last summer just made them look a laughing stock. It took months and months of waffling with nothing at the end of it.

The way things are going at the moment, The Trust is like a rudderless ship going nowhere.

We are lucky to have new people like Lisa and Andrew on board but fundamental changes need to take place soon or The Trust is just toothless. As we have seen it is largely ignored these days and not really taken seriously by the new "investors" who pretty much seem to do what they want without any consultation to the Trust whatsoever... simply because it is impotent when it comes to defending the direction in which the club is going.

Unless radical changes are made soon, this will continue in the future.

PROUD RECIPIENT OF THE THIRD PLANET SWANS LIFETIME ACHIEVEMENT AWARD. "Per ardua ad astra"
Poll: iS tHERE lIFE aFTER dEATH

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Stadium deal agreed on 18:46 - Feb 18 with 1615 viewsPhil_S

Stadium deal agreed on 18:37 - Feb 18 by Lord_Bony

It seems there is no real authority in the decision making.

The Trust just puts out major decisions out for the vote of the subscribed fans.

This is wrong in my opinion as most have no idea of what is going on behind the scenes and the complexity and technicalities of certain legal positions. Often a false reading is taken by the board as a result of what action to take next.

There needs to be a few at the helm steering the ship making the main decisions on behalf of the Trust with a vote put to the board if necessary. But they need the respect and authority to be able to take decisive action. The case of the QC for example last summer just made them look a laughing stock. It took months and months of waffling with nothing at the end of it.

The way things are going at the moment, The Trust is like a rudderless ship going nowhere.

We are lucky to have new people like Lisa and Andrew on board but fundamental changes need to take place soon or The Trust is just toothless. As we have seen it is largely ignored these days and not really taken seriously by the new "investors" who pretty much seem to do what they want without any consultation to the Trust whatsoever... simply because it is impotent when it comes to defending the direction in which the club is going.

Unless radical changes are made soon, this will continue in the future.


As I said back in November, the terms of the deal presented to us told me clearly that the relationship with the Americans was - and always would be - non existent at worst, subject to lip service at best.

Nothing I have seen in the past 3 months tells me that things have changed any more. Yet the board clearly wanted to continue working with them and trying to build a non existent relationship

It does seem that for some - and I say this with a heavy heart - the ability to sit in the directors box on a matchday is far more important than doing the job for which they should be elected. Take a look on a matchday and you will know who those people are.

I also firmly believe that the silence on this subject is more than a coincidence - I wonder if silence is complicit agreement or has been requested
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Stadium deal agreed on 18:47 - Feb 18 with 1615 viewsSwanzay

Stadium deal agreed on 18:35 - Feb 18 by Phil_S

It is hugely disappointing that it does seem that some have this information and have elected not to share it with the full trust board


Rinse and repeat, if im being brutally honest, even on your watch, the Trust either want to force the agenda or withhold information why have the Trust not learned...
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Stadium deal agreed on 18:48 - Feb 18 with 1605 viewsPhil_S

Stadium deal agreed on 18:47 - Feb 18 by Swanzay

Rinse and repeat, if im being brutally honest, even on your watch, the Trust either want to force the agenda or withhold information why have the Trust not learned...


Nothing brutal about it. I'm not disputing it but I can guarantee you one thing that on my watch the information would have been shared with the board upon request in a situation like this.
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Stadium deal agreed on 18:52 - Feb 18 with 1590 viewsSwanzay

Stadium deal agreed on 18:48 - Feb 18 by Phil_S

Nothing brutal about it. I'm not disputing it but I can guarantee you one thing that on my watch the information would have been shared with the board upon request in a situation like this.


Upon request speaks volumes, how can the board request information if they didn't know!

Its that simple!
1
Stadium deal agreed on 18:52 - Feb 18 with 1584 viewsswancity

Stadium deal agreed on 18:35 - Feb 18 by Phil_S

It is hugely disappointing that it does seem that some have this information and have elected not to share it with the full trust board


Disappointing? Slight understatement.

It's seems obvious that there are three or four spineless counts running the Trust who have to be removed. How that happens in anyone's guess.

Only an idiot would eat a turkey curry on Christmas day

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Stadium deal agreed on 18:53 - Feb 18 with 1572 viewsPhil_S

Stadium deal agreed on 18:52 - Feb 18 by Swanzay

Upon request speaks volumes, how can the board request information if they didn't know!

Its that simple!


Valid point but I suspect you knew what I meant. Just worded it badly.

Ironically Alan was one of those who used to get most upset if he ever felt things were being kept from him (which they never were)

But one thing I learned is that Alan is also one of those people who used to enjoy the final say - I won't put anyone under pressure but it was always hard when there was a statement to be made.

Not saying that is right BTW as I suspect you and I will be in the same place on that one
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Stadium deal agreed on 18:54 - Feb 18 with 1564 viewsPhil_S

Stadium deal agreed on 18:52 - Feb 18 by swancity

Disappointing? Slight understatement.

It's seems obvious that there are three or four spineless counts running the Trust who have to be removed. How that happens in anyone's guess.


There are elections coming up in the summer (again)

And I'm taking some comfort from Lisa's post that she is opposed to the sale. Which I know because she told me when I met her in London last month. (Her and others before anyone starts rumours...!)
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Stadium deal agreed on 18:57 - Feb 18 with 1549 viewslondonlisa2001

Stadium deal agreed on 18:54 - Feb 18 by Phil_S

There are elections coming up in the summer (again)

And I'm taking some comfort from Lisa's post that she is opposed to the sale. Which I know because she told me when I met her in London last month. (Her and others before anyone starts rumours...!)


I also told you last summer you may recall...


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Stadium deal agreed on 18:57 - Feb 18 with 1549 viewsswancity

Stadium deal agreed on 18:54 - Feb 18 by Phil_S

There are elections coming up in the summer (again)

And I'm taking some comfort from Lisa's post that she is opposed to the sale. Which I know because she told me when I met her in London last month. (Her and others before anyone starts rumours...!)


The Secretary needs to go first and foremost it would seem. How do we get rid of him?

I don't mean exterminate him by the way 😂

Only an idiot would eat a turkey curry on Christmas day

0
Stadium deal agreed on 18:57 - Feb 18 with 1549 viewsFlashberryjack

Stadium deal agreed on 18:52 - Feb 18 by swancity

Disappointing? Slight understatement.

It's seems obvious that there are three or four spineless counts running the Trust who have to be removed. How that happens in anyone's guess.


Only 3 or 4 ?

Hello
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Stadium deal agreed on 18:58 - Feb 18 with 1545 viewsMoscowJack

Stadium deal agreed on 18:48 - Feb 18 by Phil_S

Nothing brutal about it. I'm not disputing it but I can guarantee you one thing that on my watch the information would have been shared with the board upon request in a situation like this.


Phil, it shouldn't have to be 'upon request' though, should it? (edit: just noticed that you replied to that while I was typing this...)

Information like this needs to be shared to the whole Board and then they can decide whether it's the Board's responsibility to share it with the members.

One other thing - please name names. Let's all stop pussyfooting around who's in it for themselves and who's there to do the job they asked to be elected to. It's only your opinion and one that people can choose to believe or not, but I think many people (like ECB, Lisa, Matt, you and Ux) need to not feel wrong about speaking your mind entirely, especially when there are instances like this lease agreement that stink to high-heaven.

Lisa's a board member of a FTSE 500 real estate FFS....why the hell wouldn't they (or the club for that matter!!!) lean on her experience for guidance? It doesn't make ANY sense at all.

Let's see name put in print and let's see them defend themselves.

I'll start - Nigel Hamer - what did he know about the stadium lease? With the obvious (tenuous or not) links to the Americans, wouldn't this constitute a massive conflict of interest?

Stu Mac - known to me as a very well-respected and honest person, but why is he so silent as Trust Rep? Why isn't there even a monthly update from him, apart from the 20-30 words in the Trust AGM minutes? Is he being asked to be quiet, or is it a choice??

Come on everyone.....if they don't respect their own fellow Board members enough to inform them of such major decisions, shouldn't they be questioned????
[Post edited 18 Feb 2018 19:00]

Poll: Simple...would you want Leon in the squad right now, if he was available?

2
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