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Universal Basic Income 17:58 - Feb 18 with 5248 viewsdickythorpe

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43078920

Any thoughts? How much extra would it cost to administer all this???

I'm sure I read of an experiment in a small area of Switzerland and it was very hit and miss.
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Universal Basic Income on 10:45 - Feb 19 with 2381 viewsswanforthemoney

I like the articles of Tim Harford, the Undercover Economist. He reckons that it would be possible to give everyone about a tenner a day if its based on the current social security budget. That would make the existing poor and needy very badly off indeed. More than a tenner a day and it amounts to a massive increase in taxes.

Here's a link to the article with the logic and the sums:
http://timharford.com/2016/05/could-an-income-for-all-provide-the-ultimate-safet

Here's his final paragraph:
"In the end, the idea appeals to three types of people: those who are comfortable with a dramatic increase in the size of the state, those who are willing to see needy people lose large sums relative to the status quo, and those who can’t add up"

I stand in the North Stand

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Universal Basic Income on 11:33 - Feb 19 with 2348 viewswestwalesed

For a classical liberals such as myself this is an absolute utopian idea that I can't quite let go of.

The benefits that I can see include but are not limited to a massive undercutting of bureaucracy and huge simplification of the currently baffling benefits system, a return to the concept of personal responsibility ie if somebody spunks all their money on irresponsible spending then that is their prerogative, a safety net against ill health or unemployment, as has been mentioned above a liberating Force in that people who have been made recently unemployed could retrain and people who are on middle incomes or lower incomes who may want to start a business have that safety net of an income whilst the business is getting off the ground.

I personally love the idea and I actually think that run correctly it could be a net benefit to the economy in the galvanisers entrepreneurial spirit reduces the cost of administering a cumbersome welfare state and as there is more money sloshing around more taxes could be generated.

On the other hand the drawbacks appear insurmountable. There is little political will for a system such as this and the question of what happens to those who do use the money responsibly can't be answered.

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Universal Basic Income on 12:32 - Feb 19 with 2317 viewspikeypaul

Universal Basic Income on 11:33 - Feb 19 by westwalesed

For a classical liberals such as myself this is an absolute utopian idea that I can't quite let go of.

The benefits that I can see include but are not limited to a massive undercutting of bureaucracy and huge simplification of the currently baffling benefits system, a return to the concept of personal responsibility ie if somebody spunks all their money on irresponsible spending then that is their prerogative, a safety net against ill health or unemployment, as has been mentioned above a liberating Force in that people who have been made recently unemployed could retrain and people who are on middle incomes or lower incomes who may want to start a business have that safety net of an income whilst the business is getting off the ground.

I personally love the idea and I actually think that run correctly it could be a net benefit to the economy in the galvanisers entrepreneurial spirit reduces the cost of administering a cumbersome welfare state and as there is more money sloshing around more taxes could be generated.

On the other hand the drawbacks appear insurmountable. There is little political will for a system such as this and the question of what happens to those who do use the money responsibly can't be answered.


“More money sloshing around”

Where does this money come from and who pays for it?

At the end of the day it will only ever be a liberal dream since we all
know there are a lot of people out there who would spunk the cash very quickly and who then would pay their housing benefit,council tax,support their sprogs,etc,etc,etc?

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Universal Basic Income on 13:10 - Feb 19 with 2302 viewsBarrySwan

Universal Basic Income on 10:19 - Feb 19 by pikeypaul

What’s new about that ?


Not a lot I suppose.

But either everyone gets the £10,000 or no one should in this proposal.
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Universal Basic Income on 13:20 - Feb 19 with 2287 viewslonglostjack

Universal Basic Income on 11:33 - Feb 19 by westwalesed

For a classical liberals such as myself this is an absolute utopian idea that I can't quite let go of.

The benefits that I can see include but are not limited to a massive undercutting of bureaucracy and huge simplification of the currently baffling benefits system, a return to the concept of personal responsibility ie if somebody spunks all their money on irresponsible spending then that is their prerogative, a safety net against ill health or unemployment, as has been mentioned above a liberating Force in that people who have been made recently unemployed could retrain and people who are on middle incomes or lower incomes who may want to start a business have that safety net of an income whilst the business is getting off the ground.

I personally love the idea and I actually think that run correctly it could be a net benefit to the economy in the galvanisers entrepreneurial spirit reduces the cost of administering a cumbersome welfare state and as there is more money sloshing around more taxes could be generated.

On the other hand the drawbacks appear insurmountable. There is little political will for a system such as this and the question of what happens to those who do use the money responsibly can't be answered.


It is an interesting idea. Apparently Richard Nixon wanted to introduce it in the US in the 1970'ies but the Democrats in Congress blocked it as they wanted the amount paid out to be higher. Rather than a one off lump sum, as Trampie has pointed out a fixed monthly amount would be better. In fact that's what I thought they were doing in the trial in Finland.

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Universal Basic Income on 13:32 - Feb 19 with 2276 viewswestwalesed

Universal Basic Income on 13:20 - Feb 19 by longlostjack

It is an interesting idea. Apparently Richard Nixon wanted to introduce it in the US in the 1970'ies but the Democrats in Congress blocked it as they wanted the amount paid out to be higher. Rather than a one off lump sum, as Trampie has pointed out a fixed monthly amount would be better. In fact that's what I thought they were doing in the trial in Finland.


Yes it would certainly have to be paid in a monthly wage format.

In terms of not spinning it on the wrong things, safeguards can be put in place. It's happening already with Universal Credit. I supported a Schizophrenic to have the housing benefit component of his universal credit paid directly to his landlord as an example.

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Universal Basic Income on 14:03 - Feb 19 with 2247 viewstrampie

Universal Basic Income on 13:10 - Feb 19 by BarrySwan

Not a lot I suppose.

But either everyone gets the £10,000 or no one should in this proposal.


Everyone will get it, you just get money for being a citizen, everyone, don't get hung up on this particular example, it's been talked about for years that it will have to happen and in most cases that is talked about everyone gets it (don't know what this 55 thing is in this particular version they are taking about, perhaps it's because old age pension is still about).
[Post edited 19 Feb 2018 14:06]

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Universal Basic Income on 14:05 - Feb 19 with 2249 viewsJack_Meoff

Just to add perspective; we pay £5000 per SECOND interest on our national debt.

Usury, eh? What a wheeze...

If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face--forever.

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Universal Basic Income on 14:13 - Feb 19 with 2240 viewsLohengrin

There’s nothing new here it’s just the cyclical nature of politics that sees themes revisited and repackaged, in this case the attempt by the radical right to ‘think’ a way out of crisis in the last century.

If you wanted to study the ideological development of an Idea I’d recommend you make this your starting point...



An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it.

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Universal Basic Income on 18:28 - Feb 19 with 2163 viewsjohnlangy

Universal Basic Income on 22:14 - Feb 18 by Kilkennyjack

You are a nasty piece of work.

Feck you on behalf of all people who claim state benefits.

If you ever need state help, then i do hope its there for you when you need it the most.


Yes, he is a t&*t Kilkenny. He's shown it many times before.

The idea is gaining momentum (no pun intended there everyone for all the Labour hating posters) because in 10 years time there may be ten million not working due to robotisation as compared with 1.5 million now. So, something drastic needs to happen.

There'll be no point in telling the ten million to go to the local job centre to look for work because there won't be any jobs (In fact all the job centre employees will be out of work as well). All the basic stuff will be done by robots (so they say).

So, what do you do ? Call it benefits if you like but it'll be permanent
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Universal Basic Income on 18:40 - Feb 19 with 2156 viewsBarrySwan

Universal Basic Income on 14:03 - Feb 19 by trampie

Everyone will get it, you just get money for being a citizen, everyone, don't get hung up on this particular example, it's been talked about for years that it will have to happen and in most cases that is talked about everyone gets it (don't know what this 55 thing is in this particular version they are taking about, perhaps it's because old age pension is still about).
[Post edited 19 Feb 2018 14:06]


Well thats not everyone then is it?

An Old Age pension kicks in starting at 65, 66, 67 and increasing virtually every year as the government desperately realise that their giant ponzi scheme formerly known as the Old Age Pension is near to collapse, yet despite this unpalatable fact some nutters are suggesting that it can afford to hand out £10,000 a year to all those under the age of 55.
[Post edited 19 Feb 2018 18:44]
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Universal Basic Income on 18:46 - Feb 19 with 2143 viewsPozuelosSideys

Universal Basic Income on 14:05 - Feb 19 by Jack_Meoff

Just to add perspective; we pay £5000 per SECOND interest on our national debt.

Usury, eh? What a wheeze...


And yet people want to borrow even more.

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Universal Basic Income on 19:09 - Feb 19 with 2131 viewsJack_Meoff

Universal Basic Income on 18:46 - Feb 19 by PozuelosSideys

And yet people want to borrow even more.


Wasn't my point Poz mate. It was just as a comparison.

Surely there aren't people out there that still think the debt is going to be paid back, or was ever designed to be? All about the interest payments, currently over a billion pounds a month. Biggest heist in history.

If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face--forever.

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Universal Basic Income on 19:15 - Feb 19 with 2124 viewsPozuelosSideys

Universal Basic Income on 19:09 - Feb 19 by Jack_Meoff

Wasn't my point Poz mate. It was just as a comparison.

Surely there aren't people out there that still think the debt is going to be paid back, or was ever designed to be? All about the interest payments, currently over a billion pounds a month. Biggest heist in history.


Well the immediate aim should be to turn the deficit into a surplus. Its happening, albeit very slowly.. and much to the distaste of those on the left. Borrowing more just makes things worse.

Anyway, we digress. We talk about robots and automisation (think i made that word up), but if it does get anywhere near the numbers that are being bandied about, then theres your revolution right there. People wont stand for it. Even morseo, the companies that are doing this will end up finding their customer base no longer has any money to buy their products with as they are all out of work. Theres a balance to be found.

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Universal Basic Income on 19:16 - Feb 19 with 2123 viewspikeypaul

Universal Basic Income on 18:46 - Feb 19 by PozuelosSideys

And yet people want to borrow even more.


Exactly but these labour idiots that believe in magic money trees do not care if they bankrupt the country again,they know the Conservatives will have to come back in and clean up the mess again.

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Universal Basic Income on 19:41 - Feb 19 with 2105 viewsperchrockjack

I'm all for liberalism .

Fair play for those who work their nuts off

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Universal Basic Income on 20:28 - Feb 19 with 2074 viewstrampie

Universal Basic Income on 18:40 - Feb 19 by BarrySwan

Well thats not everyone then is it?

An Old Age pension kicks in starting at 65, 66, 67 and increasing virtually every year as the government desperately realise that their giant ponzi scheme formerly known as the Old Age Pension is near to collapse, yet despite this unpalatable fact some nutters are suggesting that it can afford to hand out £10,000 a year to all those under the age of 55.
[Post edited 19 Feb 2018 18:44]


It is in ever suggestion I have seen before this one.

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