| Winston Churchill - The Darkest Hour 22:10 - Mar 5 with 9103 views | Aquinas |
Just finished watching The Darkest Hour after seeing Gary Oldman won an Oscar for his portrayal of Winston Churchill.
I had a quick search through twitter to see what people thought of the film and most comments were about Churchill being a racist and someone who should not be lauded in this day and age.
Do you agree? |  | | |  |
| Winston Churchill - The Darkest Hour on 22:11 - Mar 5 with 5588 views | Jack_Kass |
No he did not send the freakin army into Tonypandy. |  |
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| Winston Churchill - The Darkest Hour on 22:14 - Mar 5 with 5572 views | Brynmill_Jack |
He led our country through the darkest time in our history and all the time he was suffering from depression himself. Whatever anyone says about the troops being sent in to the mining areas we should be at least greatful we're not living under the Fascist yoke...... |  |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| Winston Churchill - The Darkest Hour on 22:14 - Mar 5 with 5573 views | monmouth |
Don't know but I do know the film should have been called The Darkest Eon. It went on for light years. |  |
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| Winston Churchill - The Darkest Hour on 22:22 - Mar 5 with 5535 views | Lohengrin |
He was belligerent when most who participate on this board consider the situation required belligerence so on that basis he is lauded. There’s no question that he was been raised to the status of a tribal demi-God by decades of assiduous propaganda so his legend has floated free of his actual accomplishments. Personally I would say that as a wartime ‘Leader’ he pales in comparison to Lloyd George.
What about you, young Aquinas? You’re a well-read chap with a mind of your own, what do you think? |  |
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| Winston Churchill - The Darkest Hour on 22:25 - Mar 5 with 5522 views | PozuelosSideys |
Lets be honest. Pointing fingers at Churchill being a racist and not one to be lauded in this day and age is a strange one. Putting up some fluffy, happy clappy apologist against the Nazis would have ended up in one way. To deal with vermin, you have to play their game and beat them at it.
Whenever i see this sort of stuff thrown at Churchill, it always reminds me of when victims of crime get shamed, whereas the perpetrator seems to get away lightly with some mild sympathy. Dont know why. |  |
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| Winston Churchill - The Darkest Hour on 22:27 - Mar 5 with 5514 views | jackportis |
You can’t negotiate with a tiger when your heads in his mouth. He had some great quotes. As for the racist bit I don’t believe it was invented back then. |  |
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| Winston Churchill - The Darkest Hour on 22:41 - Mar 5 with 5468 views | MrSwerve |
| Winston Churchill - The Darkest Hour on 22:14 - Mar 5 by monmouth |
Don't know but I do know the film should have been called The Darkest Eon. It went on for light years. |
Lights years are distance mun.  |  |
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| Winston Churchill - The Darkest Hour on 22:48 - Mar 5 with 5452 views | BrynCartwright |
Churchill; Lloyd George; Nye Bevan.
3 awesome orators no-one in the present Commons even comes remotely close to (apparently).
Got to make do with the present lumpen lot now I suppose |  |
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| Winston Churchill - The Darkest Hour on 23:04 - Mar 5 with 5418 views | Aquinas |
| Winston Churchill - The Darkest Hour on 22:22 - Mar 5 by Lohengrin |
He was belligerent when most who participate on this board consider the situation required belligerence so on that basis he is lauded. There’s no question that he was been raised to the status of a tribal demi-God by decades of assiduous propaganda so his legend has floated free of his actual accomplishments. Personally I would say that as a wartime ‘Leader’ he pales in comparison to Lloyd George.
What about you, young Aquinas? You’re a well-read chap with a mind of your own, what do you think? |
I'm not well read enough to compare him properly with other war time leaders, however I think he was exactly what was needed at the time. I don't really agree with him being voted the greatest ever Briton though. I think he was far too complex to ever be considered perfect. But he was what we needed.
I am also hugely against this common leftist trend of taking historical figures and judging them by what is politically correct in this day and age. I imagine in 2118, leftist planet swans users will consider epaul and ECB ardent right wingers. | | | |
| Winston Churchill - The Darkest Hour on 23:18 - Mar 5 with 5392 views | Lohengrin |
| Winston Churchill - The Darkest Hour on 22:48 - Mar 5 by BrynCartwright |
Churchill; Lloyd George; Nye Bevan.
3 awesome orators no-one in the present Commons even comes remotely close to (apparently).
Got to make do with the present lumpen lot now I suppose |
Only one of those you’ve listed could accurately be described as an ‘orator,’ the other two were speakers of a lower order entirely. Lloyd George was, by common assent, probably the finest orator to have graced Westminster in three centuries. “Socratic reasoning combined with Shakespearean delivery” was how Brockway described his style.
Churchill on the other hand was completely incapable of speaking extempore. He would either read directly from a prepared script or memorise his lines beforehand and deliver them with eyes closed to try and minimise distraction. In the ‘20s the ‘big three’ of the ILP - Wheatley, Mosley and Maxton - would delight in throwing Churchill off his stride, at which point he would redden in the face, begin to stammer and sit down having lost track of where he was. That happened on many occasions. Those famous speeches you have heard from WW2, you do realise you’re listening to an actor, do you? The voice on the radio wasn’t that of Churchill. Think of it as an early example of auto-tuning! 
Bevan? He could be an entertaining speaker as he would throw insults around like a page boy throws confetti but his voice was high-pitched and whiny. Try and imagine a Welsh Britney Spears at the mic, now add a stutter and the inability to pronounce the letter ‘R’ and you’ve got him, more or less. | |
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| Winston Churchill - The Darkest Hour on 23:32 - Mar 5 with 5365 views | ItchySphincter |
A man of his time. |  |
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| Winston Churchill - The Darkest Hour on 23:33 - Mar 5 with 5366 views | Lohengrin |
| Winston Churchill - The Darkest Hour on 23:04 - Mar 5 by Aquinas |
I'm not well read enough to compare him properly with other war time leaders, however I think he was exactly what was needed at the time. I don't really agree with him being voted the greatest ever Briton though. I think he was far too complex to ever be considered perfect. But he was what we needed.
I am also hugely against this common leftist trend of taking historical figures and judging them by what is politically correct in this day and age. I imagine in 2118, leftist planet swans users will consider epaul and ECB ardent right wingers. |
In 2118 there will be no lefties, my boy. Within the next fifty years they will have gone the way of the Dodo having followed their twisted logic and succumbed to their degenerate proclivities and ‘Transgendered’ themselves. They stop reproducing and gradually disappear.
Get this though: in 2118 schoolboys clad in Harris Tweed pass by a statue of me every day in the city centre as they navigate a world without unemployment, crime or illness in a Europa made one by Christ returned. It’s all in the tea leaves... | |
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| Winston Churchill - The Darkest Hour on 23:38 - Mar 5 with 5354 views | oh_tommy_tommy |
Barack Obama Isn’t a fan of Churchill |  |
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| Winston Churchill - The Darkest Hour on 23:47 - Mar 5 with 5343 views | Lohengrin |
| Winston Churchill - The Darkest Hour on 23:38 - Mar 5 by oh_tommy_tommy |
Barack Obama Isn’t a fan of Churchill |
But he is entirely comfortable keeping company with the well-balanced chap who blurted out “the Jews don't like Farrakhan, so they call me Hitler. Well, that's a good name. Hitler was a very great man.” I doubt Churchill would have been much of an admirer of Obama either when it comes down to it.
You pays ‘yer money you takes ‘yer choice, Tom.
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| Winston Churchill - The Darkest Hour on 00:24 - Mar 6 with 5301 views | oh_tommy_tommy |
| Winston Churchill - The Darkest Hour on 23:47 - Mar 5 by Lohengrin |
But he is entirely comfortable keeping company with the well-balanced chap who blurted out “the Jews don't like Farrakhan, so they call me Hitler. Well, that's a good name. Hitler was a very great man.” I doubt Churchill would have been much of an admirer of Obama either when it comes down to it.
You pays ‘yer money you takes ‘yer choice, Tom.
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Churchill defiantly wouldn’t have been a fan of Obama | |
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| Winston Churchill - The Darkest Hour on 02:48 - Mar 6 with 5241 views | Lord_Bony |
We ve been through all thiis recently.
Have a real good read of this lot and make your own mind up.
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| Winston Churchill - The Darkest Hour on 13:01 - Mar 6 with 5055 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Winston Churchill - The Darkest Hour on 23:18 - Mar 5 by Lohengrin |
Only one of those you’ve listed could accurately be described as an ‘orator,’ the other two were speakers of a lower order entirely. Lloyd George was, by common assent, probably the finest orator to have graced Westminster in three centuries. “Socratic reasoning combined with Shakespearean delivery” was how Brockway described his style.
Churchill on the other hand was completely incapable of speaking extempore. He would either read directly from a prepared script or memorise his lines beforehand and deliver them with eyes closed to try and minimise distraction. In the ‘20s the ‘big three’ of the ILP - Wheatley, Mosley and Maxton - would delight in throwing Churchill off his stride, at which point he would redden in the face, begin to stammer and sit down having lost track of where he was. That happened on many occasions. Those famous speeches you have heard from WW2, you do realise you’re listening to an actor, do you? The voice on the radio wasn’t that of Churchill. Think of it as an early example of auto-tuning!
Bevan? He could be an entertaining speaker as he would throw insults around like a page boy throws confetti but his voice was high-pitched and whiny. Try and imagine a Welsh Britney Spears at the mic, now add a stutter and the inability to pronounce the letter ‘R’ and you’ve got him, more or less. |
"Those famous speeches you have heard from WW2, you do realise you’re listening to an actor, do you? The voice on the radio wasn’t that of Churchill. "
Surprised you've fallen for that particular nonsense Loh.
Most recordings they play these days are the ones done by Decca with Churchill famously lying in his bed rereading his speeches after the event, but the myth about them being recorded at the time by that actor bloke have been disproved anyway. It was made up in a biography to discredit him and was repeated in other biographies without them checking. One recording was done for overseas transmission using an actor which caused the story in the first place. | | | |
| Winston Churchill - The Darkest Hour on 13:19 - Mar 6 with 5029 views | theloneranger |
| Winston Churchill - The Darkest Hour on 13:01 - Mar 6 by londonlisa2001 |
"Those famous speeches you have heard from WW2, you do realise you’re listening to an actor, do you? The voice on the radio wasn’t that of Churchill. "
Surprised you've fallen for that particular nonsense Loh.
Most recordings they play these days are the ones done by Decca with Churchill famously lying in his bed rereading his speeches after the event, but the myth about them being recorded at the time by that actor bloke have been disproved anyway. It was made up in a biography to discredit him and was repeated in other biographies without them checking. One recording was done for overseas transmission using an actor which caused the story in the first place. |
That actor bloke was Norman Shelley who played Colonel Danby in The Archers, who made the claim about the Churchill speeches in his autobiography.
It's no secret his claim was picked up by well known Nazi sympathiser David Irving, who then tried to discredit Churchill using Shelley's autobiography. |  |
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| Winston Churchill - The Darkest Hour on 13:28 - Mar 6 with 5019 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Winston Churchill - The Darkest Hour on 13:19 - Mar 6 by theloneranger |
That actor bloke was Norman Shelley who played Colonel Danby in The Archers, who made the claim about the Churchill speeches in his autobiography.
It's no secret his claim was picked up by well known Nazi sympathiser David Irving, who then tried to discredit Churchill using Shelley's autobiography. |
Thank you! I was trying to remember his name.
I read an article about it in the Economist of all places some time ago which said it was propaganda designed to discredit that had for some reason been repeated frequently. | | | |
| Winston Churchill - The Darkest Hour on 13:32 - Mar 6 with 5012 views | Flashberryjack |
| Winston Churchill - The Darkest Hour on 23:32 - Mar 5 by ItchySphincter |
A man of his time. |
Exactly......if todays snowflakes were about then they would have flown the white flag before before Hitler could say "Messerschmitt" |  |
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| Winston Churchill - The Darkest Hour on 13:33 - Mar 6 with 5008 views | trampie |
The part of Wales I come from Churchill was/is hated by many people. |  |
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| Winston Churchill - The Darkest Hour on 15:18 - Mar 6 with 4956 views | Lohengrin |
| Winston Churchill - The Darkest Hour on 13:28 - Mar 6 by londonlisa2001 |
Thank you! I was trying to remember his name.
I read an article about it in the Economist of all places some time ago which said it was propaganda designed to discredit that had for some reason been repeated frequently. |
I fail to see how the story would have ‘discredited’ Churchill in any way? It’s my understanding that these type of voiceovers were fairly standard in the ‘20s and ‘30s.
I didn’t read the article in the Economist, (there can’t be more than a handful of times I would have flicked through that journal full-stop) the piece I’m recalling was in The Observer. From memory the central facts were that Churchill had no contract with the BBC and as a journalist as well as a politician he wasn’t about to do anything for them gratis, secondly there were two sets of recordings in circulation post-war - the Decca set and another from EMI containing essentially the same collection of speeches. I’m tolerably certain the article stated they had been submitted for comparison analysis which confirmed they were made by different people.
Like I said at the beginning, though, it’s not a big deal. | |
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| Winston Churchill - The Darkest Hour on 15:22 - Mar 6 with 4943 views | Lohengrin |
| Winston Churchill - The Darkest Hour on 13:19 - Mar 6 by theloneranger |
That actor bloke was Norman Shelley who played Colonel Danby in The Archers, who made the claim about the Churchill speeches in his autobiography.
It's no secret his claim was picked up by well known Nazi sympathiser David Irving, who then tried to discredit Churchill using Shelley's autobiography. |
If you were to read Irving’s two-volume biography of Churchill, the third volume is yet to be published, you would revise your opinion as it would soon become apparent that he admires his subject. There is no attempt to bring the man low, quite the reverse. | |
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| Winston Churchill - The Darkest Hour on 15:33 - Mar 6 with 4931 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Winston Churchill - The Darkest Hour on 15:18 - Mar 6 by Lohengrin |
I fail to see how the story would have ‘discredited’ Churchill in any way? It’s my understanding that these type of voiceovers were fairly standard in the ‘20s and ‘30s.
I didn’t read the article in the Economist, (there can’t be more than a handful of times I would have flicked through that journal full-stop) the piece I’m recalling was in The Observer. From memory the central facts were that Churchill had no contract with the BBC and as a journalist as well as a politician he wasn’t about to do anything for them gratis, secondly there were two sets of recordings in circulation post-war - the Decca set and another from EMI containing essentially the same collection of speeches. I’m tolerably certain the article stated they had been submitted for comparison analysis which confirmed they were made by different people.
Like I said at the beginning, though, it’s not a big deal. |
No idea why it was an attempt to discredit. You'd have to ask the bloke who wrote it.
I was responding to you saying that the speeches you hear on the radio aren't him but are an actor.
It was Churchill. The actor stuff was disproved.
Edited - here you go Loh, an article about it. I can't see the Economist one at the moment.
https://www.winstonchurchill.org/resources/myths/an-actor-read-churchills-wartim [Post edited 6 Mar 2018 15:37]
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