| Switzerland Border vs Northern Ireland Border 08:03 - Mar 8 with 4602 views | westwalesed |
Can someone enlighten me?
As I understand it Switzerland is outside the EU and the Customs Union but has decided to be part of Schengen. Every time I drive into Switzerland there are zero border patrols? Is this not the case? |  |
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| Switzerland Border vs Northern Ireland Border on 08:11 - Mar 8 with 2870 views | trampie |
How many enemies do the Swiss have ?, how many does the UK state have ? |  |
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| Switzerland Border vs Northern Ireland Border on 10:29 - Mar 8 with 2767 views | felixstowe_jack |
Simple really the EU don't want any Country to exercise their democratic rights to leave the EU. As a result they are not willing to negotiate with the UK and will just continue to be obstructive. The EU is perfectly happy to ruin EU business that export to the UK just to prove how undemocratic they are. | |
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| Switzerland Border vs Northern Ireland Border on 10:39 - Mar 8 with 2751 views | sherpajacob |
This gets to the root of many brexit contradictions.
The Swiss have frictionless borders because they are in Schengen.
There is no way the UK government will join schengen so to ensure a,frictionless border in Ireland NI needs to be in the/a customs union with Ireland and therefore the EU.
Theresa May said the following last week.
Free movement of people will end and we will control the number of people who come to live in our country.
The referendum was a vote to take control of our borders.
We have ruled out any physical infrastructure at the border or any related checks and controls.
She said all this in the same speech ffs |  |
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| Switzerland Border vs Northern Ireland Border on 10:54 - Mar 8 with 2736 views | Batterseajack |
https://www.ft.com/content/2d30482c-da7e-11e7-a039-c64b1c09b482
When you land at Geneva Airport with the intention of driving onwards, you have a choice. You can pass through Swiss immigration and head straight for the car hire desks. Alternatively, you can go up an escalator, along a corridor and cross into the French sector where the same multinational car hire companies will offer you a different deal.
Swiss regulations insist that hire cars have winter tyres fitted between the autumn and spring and they will also have a “vignette”, paying the annual SFR 40 ($40) road tax allowing the car to drive on Switzerland’s motorways. Cars hired from the French side have neither and often differ in specifications, but are generally much cheaper. From the same rental company, it is currently possible to hire a family car for the February half-term holiday for roughly half the price if you are willing to pick it up and return it to the French sector of the airport.
Even though car hire is a competitive business with essentially the same product on offer, the national border separates markets and allows price variations far in excess of the product quality differences on offer. It is bad news for Switzerland, where consumers have to pay more even though the regulatory differences are minimal.
Border frictions have separated markets either side of the border to the detriment of consumers
If you choose to save the money, and accept you cannot drive on Swiss motorways without a further charge, you will soon notice other ways in which borders matter. As you come to the end of the airport approach road and hang a right, aiming to drive through Geneva city centre and then back into France, you are immediately stopped by heavy border infrastructure.
Three beige buildings with French and Swiss customs confront you, along with offices for both tax authorities. Europeans, accustomed to crossing other internal land borders within the EU, find this quite odd. Switzerland is part of the EU’s Schengen area, so there are no passport checks required for entry. For food and almost all tradeable industrial and agricultural goods, Switzerland’s regulations are also fully aligned with those of the EU. Both sides accept the others’ regulations. In reality, the Swiss copy and paste Brussels regulations into their domestic laws, allowing the landlocked state effectively to be a member of the EU single market for goods.
Border infrastructure and customs declarations are necessary, however, because Switzerland is not part of the EU’s customs union or value added tax regime, which are separate from the single market. This difference requires both sides to build and staff a hard border with sometimes significant delays.
The French worry that someone might, for example, buy a frighteningly expensive Swiss watch, receive a Swiss tax refund since the watch is for export, and then not declare it for French VAT. The Swiss rigorously check that people have not spent more than €300 each on goods from France, depriving its exchequer of sales taxes.
For trading companies, each load requires a customs declaration, multiple forms and stamps by the tax authorities to ensure that the formalities are closed on each side before goods cross the tax border. Within the Union none of this applies because complete regulatory alignment is married to an EU VAT regime, all within the customs union. This VAT system has its problems, but ensures that goods can flow across borders with no formalities.
The Swiss-French border is efficient. There are no applicable tariffs. Regulations for goods are fully aligned. There is a common travel area between the two countries without the need for passport checks. But the border requires hard infrastructure because Switzerland is not in the EU VAT regime nor its customs union. Border frictions have separated markets either side of the border to the detriment of consumers.
Regulatory alignment would remove only some of Brexit’s border barriers in Ireland. The UK and Ireland should take note. [Post edited 8 Mar 2018 10:55]
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| Switzerland Border vs Northern Ireland Border on 10:55 - Mar 8 with 2735 views | Lohengrin |
| Switzerland Border vs Northern Ireland Border on 10:39 - Mar 8 by sherpajacob |
This gets to the root of many brexit contradictions.
The Swiss have frictionless borders because they are in Schengen.
There is no way the UK government will join schengen so to ensure a,frictionless border in Ireland NI needs to be in the/a customs union with Ireland and therefore the EU.
Theresa May said the following last week.
Free movement of people will end and we will control the number of people who come to live in our country.
The referendum was a vote to take control of our borders.
We have ruled out any physical infrastructure at the border or any related checks and controls.
She said all this in the same speech ffs |
I don’t think there’s anything anomalous in what she has said there, Sherp. It just tells me she shares exactly the same feeling, the same natural assumption that I and countless others have that Irish folk north and south are part of the family. That’s something that operates on a level over and above that of political treaties. We interact with kin differently. |  |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Switzerland Border vs Northern Ireland Border on 10:56 - Mar 8 with 2730 views | felixstowe_jack |
I think it is the EU and Irish Republic that want to impose fixed borders and controls between EIRE and NI. You must wonder what their motives are. | |
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| Switzerland Border vs Northern Ireland Border on 10:58 - Mar 8 with 2726 views | Batterseajack |
| Switzerland Border vs Northern Ireland Border on 10:29 - Mar 8 by felixstowe_jack |
Simple really the EU don't want any Country to exercise their democratic rights to leave the EU. As a result they are not willing to negotiate with the UK and will just continue to be obstructive. The EU is perfectly happy to ruin EU business that export to the UK just to prove how undemocratic they are. |
Absolute gibberish.
Just because the UK citizens decided to Leave the EU and its associated institutions through a democratic process, why on earth do you think the EU is somehow duty bound to allow the UK to retain the perks it had as a member? [Post edited 8 Mar 2018 10:58]
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| Switzerland Border vs Northern Ireland Border on 10:59 - Mar 8 with 2719 views | trampie |
| Switzerland Border vs Northern Ireland Border on 10:19 - Mar 8 by westwalesed |
I'm not saying that at all, but the Swiss do appear to have a "frictionless border" despite not being in the Customs Union. So I'm failing to see why something similar can't be replicated on the Island of Ireland, especially as it's a land border with one country rather than four in the case of Switzerland. |
As regards being a World player the UK has a past (and a present) and is a nuclear power and sits at the top table (security council, G8 etc).
The UK might be a target for some.
On an individual basis the UK used to have a good benefits system and welfare state compared to some places it ruled, people belonging to places it colonised when it had an Empire think/have a claim on moving here.
Blighty needs borders, the unionist fanatics that ended up in Northern Ireland won't like a British border (basically handing Northern Ireland over to Ireland), they want a UK & NI border. | |
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| Switzerland Border vs Northern Ireland Border on 11:00 - Mar 8 with 2715 views | Loyal |
This Irish border thing could set Nortgern Ireland back 20 years as well if they don't get it right. |  |
| Nolan sympathiser, clout expert, personal friend of Leigh Dineen, advocate and enforcer of porridge swallows.
The official inventor of the tit w@nk. | | Poll: | Who should be Swansea number 1 |
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| Switzerland Border vs Northern Ireland Border on 11:08 - Mar 8 with 2690 views | trampie |
| Switzerland Border vs Northern Ireland Border on 11:00 - Mar 8 by Loyal |
This Irish border thing could set Nortgern Ireland back 20 years as well if they don't get it right. |
We should have nothing to do with Northern Ireland it's a basket case, a drain on our resources.
Let them fight it out, without British involvement my money is on the South. | |
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| Switzerland Border vs Northern Ireland Border on 11:22 - Mar 8 with 2665 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Switzerland Border vs Northern Ireland Border on 10:58 - Mar 8 by Batterseajack |
Absolute gibberish.
Just because the UK citizens decided to Leave the EU and its associated institutions through a democratic process, why on earth do you think the EU is somehow duty bound to allow the UK to retain the perks it had as a member? [Post edited 8 Mar 2018 10:58]
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I don't just a fair exit deal but the unelected EU leaders don't like to see their empire crumble. As far as I am concerned we should just leave without paying a penny to the EU. | |
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| Switzerland Border vs Northern Ireland Border on 11:23 - Mar 8 with 2662 views | sherpajacob |
| Switzerland Border vs Northern Ireland Border on 10:55 - Mar 8 by Lohengrin |
I don’t think there’s anything anomalous in what she has said there, Sherp. It just tells me she shares exactly the same feeling, the same natural assumption that I and countless others have that Irish folk north and south are part of the family. That’s something that operates on a level over and above that of political treaties. We interact with kin differently. |
I agree with you about a United Ireland.
However TM said in the same speech about preserving the union and no border in the Irish sea.
So there is another contradiction, she can't pursue this option and retain the support of the DUP. | |
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| Switzerland Border vs Northern Ireland Border on 11:25 - Mar 8 with 2659 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Switzerland Border vs Northern Ireland Border on 11:22 - Mar 8 by felixstowe_jack |
I don't just a fair exit deal but the unelected EU leaders don't like to see their empire crumble. As far as I am concerned we should just leave without paying a penny to the EU. |
Genuine questions.
If Scotland votes for independence at some point which is completely possible, do you believe that they should take their fair share of the debts of the UK? Or just walk away and leave the rest of us with their share of the bill as well as our own? | | | |
| Switzerland Border vs Northern Ireland Border on 11:35 - Mar 8 with 2637 views | Lohengrin |
| Switzerland Border vs Northern Ireland Border on 11:23 - Mar 8 by sherpajacob |
I agree with you about a United Ireland.
However TM said in the same speech about preserving the union and no border in the Irish sea.
So there is another contradiction, she can't pursue this option and retain the support of the DUP. |
You misunderstand me, Sherp. I’m talking of welcoming Southern Ireland back into the fold.  | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Switzerland Border vs Northern Ireland Border on 11:38 - Mar 8 with 2628 views | trampie |
| Switzerland Border vs Northern Ireland Border on 11:35 - Mar 8 by Lohengrin |
You misunderstand me, Sherp. I’m talking of welcoming Southern Ireland back into the fold. |
After the way the English treated them would they want to comeback and who can blame them ? | |
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| Switzerland Border vs Northern Ireland Border on 11:52 - Mar 8 with 2608 views | Lohengrin |
| Switzerland Border vs Northern Ireland Border on 11:38 - Mar 8 by trampie |
After the way the English treated them would they want to comeback and who can blame them ? |
The prospect of playing a full and equal political/economic part in the life of a future, federated British Isles may just trump the misdeeds of the Norman-Welsh Knighthood in twelfth century Connemara, Tramp. | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Switzerland Border vs Northern Ireland Border on 11:55 - Mar 8 with 2604 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Switzerland Border vs Northern Ireland Border on 11:52 - Mar 8 by Lohengrin |
The prospect of playing a full and equal political/economic part in the life of a future, federated British Isles may just trump the misdeeds of the Norman-Welsh Knighthood in twelfth century Connemara, Tramp. |
I think they'd probably rather stay in the EU all things considered Loh. | | | |
| Switzerland Border vs Northern Ireland Border on 12:01 - Mar 8 with 2593 views | Lohengrin |
| Switzerland Border vs Northern Ireland Border on 11:55 - Mar 8 by londonlisa2001 |
I think they'd probably rather stay in the EU all things considered Loh. |
I haven’t long come back from Rome, love. I’m sat here wondering now what will the EU be in ten years? | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Switzerland Border vs Northern Ireland Border on 12:53 - Mar 8 with 2532 views | sherpajacob |
| Switzerland Border vs Northern Ireland Border on 11:35 - Mar 8 by Lohengrin |
You misunderstand me, Sherp. I’m talking of welcoming Southern Ireland back into the fold. |
Why stop with Ireland.?
Calais was English for a long time.
We could take back India and America while we're at it.
None of the populations involved want it of course, we'll have to send some gun boats | |
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| Switzerland Border vs Northern Ireland Border on 12:55 - Mar 8 with 2525 views | sherpajacob |
| Switzerland Border vs Northern Ireland Border on 11:55 - Mar 8 by londonlisa2001 |
I think they'd probably rather stay in the EU all things considered Loh. |
Welsh independence is more likely than the people of Ireland voting to rejoin the UK. | |
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| Switzerland Border vs Northern Ireland Border on 13:00 - Mar 8 with 2509 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Switzerland Border vs Northern Ireland Border on 12:55 - Mar 8 by sherpajacob |
Welsh independence is more likely than the people of Ireland voting to rejoin the UK. |
Trampie becoming a conservative MP for the Cotswolds is more likely. | | | |
| Switzerland Border vs Northern Ireland Border on 13:39 - Mar 8 with 2451 views | Batterseajack |
So is a Swiss style border the answer for our border with Ireland? | | | |
| Switzerland Border vs Northern Ireland Border on 14:01 - Mar 8 with 2427 views | Lohengrin |
| Switzerland Border vs Northern Ireland Border on 12:53 - Mar 8 by sherpajacob |
Why stop with Ireland.?
Calais was English for a long time.
We could take back India and America while we're at it.
None of the populations involved want it of course, we'll have to send some gun boats |
Want what? How much dislocation to the everyday life of the boys who operate, say, the binwagons in Wexford would the presence of the Irish Taoiseach on a UK Economic Council bring?
Without digging for stats, Sherp, let’s assume roughly half of all Irish economic activity is linked directly to trade with the UK, Northern Ireland and mainland. What happens if The EU decide to go down a punitive tariff route? There will rapidly come a point where people will start to say what’s the alternative? | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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