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Inane Poll No1: How do you prefer your breakfast eggs? on 11:25 - Mar 19 by E20Jack
It depends in what context you read my post.
I was making the point that no other animal chooses to drink another animals milk apart from humans. You could nit pick and show animals being forced to drink milk from another species or indeed show examples of isolated survival instances but it doesn't detract from the point other than a technicality of language.
A bit like saying humans don't eat themselves because of an innate sense not to do so... then pointing to a survival situation where someone has. It is still not in a humans nature to eat themselves and unless forced to, won't.
I am happy to state than unless under extremes or isolated incidents, the only animal to willingly drink the milk of another species en masse - is humans. Humans are also the only species to have a worldwide epidemic of dietary health when their natural food sources are readily available.
There is a reason for that.
[Post edited 19 Mar 2018 11:31]
It is an absolute statement, stands on its own and is untrue
“No other species on earth drinks the milk of another species.”
Now if you had said as you now seem to be arguing
No other species on earth chooses to drink the milk of another species.
I would say that pig seems to be choosing and he hardly seems to be starving
Also as far as choice you may wish to consider the saying
You can take a horse to water but you can’t make it drink
And remember what you should do is not the only choice
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Inane Poll No1: How do you prefer your breakfast eggs? on 11:54 - Mar 19 with 1149 views
Inane Poll No1: How do you prefer your breakfast eggs? on 11:45 - Mar 19 by Jack_Kass
Oh yes, that drugs cheat, obviously the plant life wasn't enough of an advantage for him to win on his own merit and abilities.
Point is you can guarantee if athletes and their supporting staff know something will give them the slightest margin of advantage in high level competition, they will take it, especially if it's ethically sound. Yet we have very few athletes who have adapted this diet with competitive success?
If this research was so overwhelmingly conclusive in vegans being healthier and physically fitter, surely the work of sports nutrition and science, and thus the athletes, would reflect this?
[Post edited 19 Mar 2018 11:45]
Isn't there a dÃfference in long term health and what would give short term advantage?
I'm neither a vegan nor a vegetarian so am not biased but I have absolutely no doubt that it's a healthier diet in the long term. And avoiding dairy is hugely beneficial.
Ironically of course, as more people become vegan the manufacturers start to remove the health advantages by bringing out ranges of unhealthy processed crap that happens to be vegan.
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Inane Poll No1: How do you prefer your breakfast eggs? on 11:56 - Mar 19 with 1147 views
Inane Poll No1: How do you prefer your breakfast eggs? on 11:50 - Mar 19 by chad
It is an absolute statement, stands on its own and is untrue
“No other species on earth drinks the milk of another species.”
Now if you had said as you now seem to be arguing
No other species on earth chooses to drink the milk of another species.
I would say that pig seems to be choosing and he hardly seems to be starving
Also as far as choice you may wish to consider the saying
You can take a horse to water but you can’t make it drink
And remember what you should do is not the only choice
Again that is just technicality of language isn't it. If I were to explain every scenario on which such a rare occurrence may occur then we would be here all day in every discussion on the smallest of points.
If you wish to nitpick my language due to other animals being forced to or indeed extreme rare circumstances then be my guest.
But my point stands in the manner it was meant and in the context of the discussion (which clearly based on choice and not force or anomaly).
Inane Poll No1: How do you prefer your breakfast eggs? on 11:54 - Mar 19 by londonlisa2001
Isn't there a dÃfference in long term health and what would give short term advantage?
I'm neither a vegan nor a vegetarian so am not biased but I have absolutely no doubt that it's a healthier diet in the long term. And avoiding dairy is hugely beneficial.
Ironically of course, as more people become vegan the manufacturers start to remove the health advantages by bringing out ranges of unhealthy processed crap that happens to be vegan.
I think that's more a transition thing. I agree some of these fake meats are not good for you at all (still probably better than the real thing however) but a tool to make the transition to a plant based diet a bit easier.
I used to love chicken breast and found seitan a real saving grace at times. But as my taste buds adapted I craved real vegan foods and not the processed crap.
There really does seem to be an awakening. Bill Gates and Richard Branson both claiming it will just be the way in the future and investing vast amounts of money into the movement.
Branson says we will one day look back in shame in what we did in these industries and I couldn't agree more.
- although sadly I will add it will probably be out future generations looking back in shame rather than us.
Inane Poll No1: How do you prefer your breakfast eggs? on 12:01 - Mar 19 by E20Jack
I think that's more a transition thing. I agree some of these fake meats are not good for you at all (still probably better than the real thing however) but a tool to make the transition to a plant based diet a bit easier.
I used to love chicken breast and found seitan a real saving grace at times. But as my taste buds adapted I craved real vegan foods and not the processed crap.
There really does seem to be an awakening. Bill Gates and Richard Branson both claiming it will just be the way in the future and investing vast amounts of money into the movement.
Branson says we will one day look back in shame in what we did in these industries and I couldn't agree more.
- although sadly I will add it will probably be out future generations looking back in shame rather than us.
[Post edited 19 Mar 2018 12:05]
It's not stuff like seitan, but more the whole 'vegan pies, vegan ready meals' stuff I was thinking of.
Piled high with salt and sugar. It's an education thing. Just because things are vegan doesn't make them healthy. It's like people eating gluten free cakes and thinking they're being healthy. Even McDonalds are now doing a vegan burger in some markets I believe.
People just aren't very aware sometimes.
The linkages between meat and climate change are also becoming better understood by the population at large I think. Unfortunately the US market has a way to go.
One of the things I'm not sure about though is research into the effects of fish. If you look at Japan, which has had the highest life expectancy on average, their diet is very high in fish. Very low in dairy, very low in processed crap, low in red meat. I know that if I eat meat, I tend to find digestion difficult. If I eat fish (which I do frequently), no problems at all.
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Inane Poll No1: How do you prefer your breakfast eggs? on 12:17 - Mar 19 with 1117 views
Inane Poll No1: How do you prefer your breakfast eggs? on 12:12 - Mar 19 by londonlisa2001
It's not stuff like seitan, but more the whole 'vegan pies, vegan ready meals' stuff I was thinking of.
Piled high with salt and sugar. It's an education thing. Just because things are vegan doesn't make them healthy. It's like people eating gluten free cakes and thinking they're being healthy. Even McDonalds are now doing a vegan burger in some markets I believe.
People just aren't very aware sometimes.
The linkages between meat and climate change are also becoming better understood by the population at large I think. Unfortunately the US market has a way to go.
One of the things I'm not sure about though is research into the effects of fish. If you look at Japan, which has had the highest life expectancy on average, their diet is very high in fish. Very low in dairy, very low in processed crap, low in red meat. I know that if I eat meat, I tend to find digestion difficult. If I eat fish (which I do frequently), no problems at all.
Ah yep I agree with that. Again I think that is something that will hopefully fade out. I don't know many long term vegans that eat those sorts of things, it usually tends to be the ones just come from a similar diet but meat based to ease the transition.
Yes the environmental impact the meat industry has is becoming g catastrophic as I think we may have spoken about before. It is the number 1 cause of rainforest deforestation and is so awfully energy efficient it is scary.
On fish, I have not looked into that much as was never a big fish eater. But there does seem to be high levels of cholesterol and toxins due to sea pollution, but does not seem to have the same negative impact that land based meat does to human health. My argument there would be ethics rather than health probably.
Inane Poll No1: How do you prefer your breakfast eggs? on 12:17 - Mar 19 by Lord_Bony
Exactly.
If you want to be healthy and disease free for years to come...
Cut out or back on the following.
Dairy
Red meat
Refined sugar ...use stevia in your tea not artificial sweeteners.
Cakes and sweets
Booze
Go on a fast at least one day a week you fat bastads...it clears out the toxins.
Drink plenty off water ...filtered not out of plastic bottles.
Thank you.
Well yes, all good advice (apart from the fasting I guess).
Although I would say that if you want to harm yourself in the name of fun or enjoyment then go for it. But try and cut out the actions that have a victim.
Inane Poll No1: How do you prefer your breakfast eggs? on 11:56 - Mar 19 by E20Jack
Again that is just technicality of language isn't it. If I were to explain every scenario on which such a rare occurrence may occur then we would be here all day in every discussion on the smallest of points.
If you wish to nitpick my language due to other animals being forced to or indeed extreme rare circumstances then be my guest.
But my point stands in the manner it was meant and in the context of the discussion (which clearly based on choice and not force or anomaly).
No not a technicality of language but a chosen simple absolute statement which is untrue, hence Leon’s pic.
As explained no need to go into all the scenarios where your statement is nor true as you suggest but just use a simple statement that is true e.g. use the word generally. It won’t have the same impact as your absolute statement but it would be true.
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Inane Poll No1: How do you prefer your breakfast eggs? on 12:44 - Mar 19 with 1079 views
Inane Poll No1: How do you prefer your breakfast eggs? on 12:12 - Mar 19 by londonlisa2001
It's not stuff like seitan, but more the whole 'vegan pies, vegan ready meals' stuff I was thinking of.
Piled high with salt and sugar. It's an education thing. Just because things are vegan doesn't make them healthy. It's like people eating gluten free cakes and thinking they're being healthy. Even McDonalds are now doing a vegan burger in some markets I believe.
People just aren't very aware sometimes.
The linkages between meat and climate change are also becoming better understood by the population at large I think. Unfortunately the US market has a way to go.
One of the things I'm not sure about though is research into the effects of fish. If you look at Japan, which has had the highest life expectancy on average, their diet is very high in fish. Very low in dairy, very low in processed crap, low in red meat. I know that if I eat meat, I tend to find digestion difficult. If I eat fish (which I do frequently), no problems at all.
And again, with fish the same principle applies that our consumption is often market-driven and people are generally not aware that mass-farmed fish may not be especially healthy nor good for the environment. There's a world of difference between farmed salmon and wild salmon for example.
I work on the basis that if something is package, marketed and sold by the tonnes in supermarkets it's worth digging into it's history a little deeper. Unless I'm hungry!
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Inane Poll No1: How do you prefer your breakfast eggs? on 12:45 - Mar 19 with 1078 views
Inane Poll No1: How do you prefer your breakfast eggs? on 12:39 - Mar 19 by chad
No not a technicality of language but a chosen simple absolute statement which is untrue, hence Leon’s pic.
As explained no need to go into all the scenarios where your statement is nor true as you suggest but just use a simple statement that is true e.g. use the word generally. It won’t have the same impact as your absolute statement but it would be true.
We will agree to disagree then Chad. Leon's pic showed an anomaly as has been explained. I could probably find a picture of a pig flying a plane too but would be more than happy to say that pigs can't fly planes. Regardless of that technicality.
My point was obvious, it was we are the only species that chooses to drink another animals milk (and as a result suffer the health consequences). As I have said if you want to nit pick that and show animals being forced to or a solitary pig in an extraordinarily bizarre and rare scenario then that's all well and good.
But just like pigs don't fly planes.. other animals don't choose to drink the milk of other species (anomalies aside*)
Asterisk added for those who are of the pedantry persuasion.
Inane Poll No1: How do you prefer your breakfast eggs? on 12:27 - Mar 19 by londonlisa2001
Yeah, there's a lot of research that suggests that fasting is very beneficial. Not that I do it.
This is what the NHS says about fasting......
The body enters into a fasting state eight hours or so after the last meal, when the gut finishes absorbing nutrients from the food.
In the normal state, body glucose, which is stored in the liver and muscles, is the body's main source of energy.
During a fast, this store of glucose is used up first to provide energy. Later in the fast, once the glucose runs out, fat becomes the next source of energy for the body.
Everyday above ground ... Is a good day! 😎
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Inane Poll No1: How do you prefer your breakfast eggs? on 12:49 - Mar 19 with 1063 views
Inane Poll No1: How do you prefer your breakfast eggs? on 12:44 - Mar 19 by LeonWasGod
And again, with fish the same principle applies that our consumption is often market-driven and people are generally not aware that mass-farmed fish may not be especially healthy nor good for the environment. There's a world of difference between farmed salmon and wild salmon for example.
I work on the basis that if something is package, marketed and sold by the tonnes in supermarkets it's worth digging into it's history a little deeper. Unless I'm hungry!
I agree with that.
I don't tend to buy fish from the supermarket other than quick and easy salmon fillets. Am lucky enough to have a very good fishmonger round the corner whose prices are not that much different to be honest given the difference in quality.
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Inane Poll No1: How do you prefer your breakfast eggs? on 13:03 - Mar 19 with 1042 views
Inane Poll No1: How do you prefer your breakfast eggs? on 12:45 - Mar 19 by E20Jack
We will agree to disagree then Chad. Leon's pic showed an anomaly as has been explained. I could probably find a picture of a pig flying a plane too but would be more than happy to say that pigs can't fly planes. Regardless of that technicality.
My point was obvious, it was we are the only species that chooses to drink another animals milk (and as a result suffer the health consequences). As I have said if you want to nit pick that and show animals being forced to or a solitary pig in an extraordinarily bizarre and rare scenario then that's all well and good.
But just like pigs don't fly planes.. other animals don't choose to drink the milk of other species (anomalies aside*)
Asterisk added for those who are of the pedantry persuasion.
[Post edited 19 Mar 2018 12:53]
Which is why I suggested you should have used the word choose in your statement which would have changed the meaning although still not necessarily correct
I would say a pig flying a plane, which would be a very set up thing, is an outlandish comparison against an animal choosing to take easy pickings from an engorged cow, which is certainly not a one off.
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Inane Poll No1: How do you prefer your breakfast eggs? on 13:07 - Mar 19 with 1031 views
Inane Poll No1: How do you prefer your breakfast eggs? on 12:45 - Mar 19 by E20Jack
We will agree to disagree then Chad. Leon's pic showed an anomaly as has been explained. I could probably find a picture of a pig flying a plane too but would be more than happy to say that pigs can't fly planes. Regardless of that technicality.
My point was obvious, it was we are the only species that chooses to drink another animals milk (and as a result suffer the health consequences). As I have said if you want to nit pick that and show animals being forced to or a solitary pig in an extraordinarily bizarre and rare scenario then that's all well and good.
But just like pigs don't fly planes.. other animals don't choose to drink the milk of other species (anomalies aside*)
Asterisk added for those who are of the pedantry persuasion.
[Post edited 19 Mar 2018 12:53]
"Anomoly"?
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Inane Poll No1: How do you prefer your breakfast eggs? on 13:07 - Mar 19 with 1031 views
Inane Poll No1: How do you prefer your breakfast eggs? on 13:03 - Mar 19 by chad
Which is why I suggested you should have used the word choose in your statement which would have changed the meaning although still not necessarily correct
I would say a pig flying a plane, which would be a very set up thing, is an outlandish comparison against an animal choosing to take easy pickings from an engorged cow, which is certainly not a one off.
Yeah and we disagree, I am more than happy with the statement made and stand by it. There are anomalies in every walk of life. They are the exception and not the rule, that is one for the pedantic - it holds very little importance to me or the point being made.
Easy pickings would be to drink the milk of the animals own species. I do not see any other sources of milk in those pictures, they suggest necessity rather than choice.
Inane Poll No1: How do you prefer your breakfast eggs? on 13:12 - Mar 19 by E20Jack
Yeah and we disagree, I am more than happy with the statement made and stand by it. There are anomalies in every walk of life. They are the exception and not the rule, that is one for the pedantic - it holds very little importance to me or the point being made.
Easy pickings would be to drink the milk of the animals own species. I do not see any other sources of milk in those pictures, they suggest necessity rather than choice.
Would it help you if I added the word habitually?
[Post edited 19 Mar 2018 13:17]
What if we are just an anomaly?
The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Inane Poll No1: How do you prefer your breakfast eggs? on 13:12 - Mar 19 by E20Jack
Yeah and we disagree, I am more than happy with the statement made and stand by it. There are anomalies in every walk of life. They are the exception and not the rule, that is one for the pedantic - it holds very little importance to me or the point being made.
Easy pickings would be to drink the milk of the animals own species. I do not see any other sources of milk in those pictures, they suggest necessity rather than choice.
Would it help you if I added the word habitually?
[Post edited 19 Mar 2018 13:17]
But you never mentioned choice in your statement
It is an absolute statement which may either be true or false and we have already seen it’s not true
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Inane Poll No1: How do you prefer your breakfast eggs? on 14:34 - Mar 19 with 989 views
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