| Syria World War 3 10:42 - Apr 11 with 78613 views | Lord_Bony |
Is it about to kick off again? |  |
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| Syria World War 3 on 20:47 - Apr 13 with 2174 views | Sir_Robin |
| Syria World War 3 on 18:43 - Apr 13 by Kilkennyjack |
Will you do that something ? |
Don't be silly. His kind are only ever willing to fight to the last drop of other people's blood.
He hasn't explained what that something is either. What would the targets be? What would be considered a successful campaign? What would be the rules of engagement? How would we ensure that we don't escalate the conflict into a full scale war with Russia? These are all questions that need to be answered. If regime change is the aim then I have very bad news for him. That would not be possible without going to war with Russia and possibly even Iran and China as well.
Interesting clip there. And he's the former head of the armed forces in Iraq, not some loony lefty like me. |  | | |
| Syria World War 3 on 20:57 - Apr 13 with 2152 views | DJack |
| Syria World War 3 on 20:47 - Apr 13 by Sir_Robin |
Don't be silly. His kind are only ever willing to fight to the last drop of other people's blood.
He hasn't explained what that something is either. What would the targets be? What would be considered a successful campaign? What would be the rules of engagement? How would we ensure that we don't escalate the conflict into a full scale war with Russia? These are all questions that need to be answered. If regime change is the aim then I have very bad news for him. That would not be possible without going to war with Russia and possibly even Iran and China as well.
Interesting clip there. And he's the former head of the armed forces in Iraq, not some loony lefty like me. |
Don't be silly. His kind are only ever willing to fight to the last drop of other people's blood.
My kind! Who is/are "my kind" |  |
| It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan |
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| Syria World War 3 on 21:08 - Apr 13 with 2125 views | DJack |
| Syria World War 3 on 18:43 - Apr 13 by Kilkennyjack |
Will you do that something ? |
I can't conduct diplomat discussions with Syria/Russia. I am unable to enforce sanctions. i am unable to authorise a strike on a chemical weapon facility.
You are somewhat facile. | |
| It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan |
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| Syria World War 3 on 21:12 - Apr 13 with 2115 views | Sir_Robin |
| Syria World War 3 on 20:57 - Apr 13 by DJack |
Don't be silly. His kind are only ever willing to fight to the last drop of other people's blood.
My kind! Who is/are "my kind" |
I'm sorry, I thought you were going to ignore my posts due to my poor reasoning skills.
To answer your question, warmongers. | | | |
| Syria World War 3 on 21:16 - Apr 13 with 2100 views | Jack_Meoff |
| Syria World War 3 on 20:31 - Apr 13 by DJack |
That wasn't what I meant, that was your interpretation. I meant in this instance. I admit it could have been worded better, in fairness.
So if you could have worded it better then I might have correctly understood it? Fair one?
The only fantasists are people who believe our government are, or have ever acted out of humanitarian concern when it comes to the Middle East. Ever. It's always been about what's in the ground, or wider geopolitical issues related to said natural resources.
Look at my previous posts, I've said that these things are usually more about resources and/or geopolitics
Your arrogance and insults on this thread do you no favours either. Then again, it must be so frustrating to have to interact with others clearly not on your intellectual level. Like a Dostoevsky cast adrift on an ocean of Dan Browns..
I've been getting ranty because there is this weird illogical thought process that says we can't trust the western governments because of their previous actions/lies but we will put faith in the position of Syria/Russsia in spite of their previous action and lies! (and I'm stuck at home on the biff...cabin fever).
As to my intellectual level...I look up to the Chuckle Brothers and I've read neither Dan Brown nor Dostoevsky but I've seen it written that to fully understand the Russian authors you really need to understand the Russian language and then what may seem as dour or negative to us english speakers has a different meaning - satire/sarcasm |
Point one - fair.
Point two - fair.
And the last one I was aiming at (for the most part!) tongue in cheek anyway. Hence the winky thing.
Back on track, you've said on one post that 'The OPCW NEVER attribute the perpetrator in any investigation - They are not allowed to.' Which is correct. In your earlier reply to me you stated, 'You talk history of western failures but strangely ignore the history of Syrian chemical weapon use - PROVEN by the OPCW.'
Those are contradictory statements, are they not?
Here's the statement on the OPCW website.
https://www.opcw.org/news/article/opcw-fact-finding-mission-confirms-use-of-chem
Interestingly, the fact finding mission never actually visited Khan Shaykhun. Chemical weapons were concluded to have been used but blame not apportioned.
Here's a BBC article from January 2014
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-24130181
'The substance concerned was the nerve agent sarin and the delivery system was ground-to-ground rockets. Note that the UN inspectors do not anywhere in the report explicitly lay the blame for carrying out the attack at the door of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad.
That was beyond the scope of their study, but as we will see a little later, there are strong indicators from their evidence that point the finger at forces loyal to the Assad regime.'
'Strong indicators' - how does that relate on a scale of 'not very' to 'highly likely?'
Has there actually been a chemical attack with irrefutable proof? Because by f*ck it's important we get this one right. |  |
| If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face--forever. |
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| Syria World War 3 on 21:24 - Apr 13 with 2090 views | Neath_Jack |
| Syria World War 3 on 19:18 - Apr 13 by Neath_Jack |
Can anyone tell me why it's only us, the yanks and the French who are planning on going in large? What about the rest of the NATO members?
Another one, rather then going in two footed with military action, why can't Assad be put up for war crimes in The Hague? |
Can none of you answer this?
Where's Lisa and Loh, they'd surely know the answer. |  |
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| Syria World War 3 on 21:35 - Apr 13 with 2074 views | DJack |
| Syria World War 3 on 21:12 - Apr 13 by Sir_Robin |
I'm sorry, I thought you were going to ignore my posts due to my poor reasoning skills.
To answer your question, warmongers. |
"I'm sorry, I thought you were going to ignore my posts due to my poor reasoning skills. "
I did something that you seem unable to do... see further evidence and re-evaluate.
At last some sensible posting, this -
"What would the targets be? What would be considered a successful campaign? What would be the rules of engagement? How would we ensure that we don't escalate the conflict into a full scale war with Russia? These are all questions that need to be answered."
This bit is flawed -
" If regime change is the aim then I have very bad news for him. That would not be possible without going to war with Russia and possibly even Iran and China as well."
The west had a chance of regime change when Russia offered to ensure that after giving Assad 6 months preparation for departure, whilst election were being planned and prepared (crucially without Assad being able to veto parties). The west dropped the ball as they wanted too much. Iran is an odd one they are not friends with Russia one bit. They only share the fear of jihadis (ones that they can't control) so have limited co-operation plus the fact that they are opposed to Saudi Arabia's pre-eminence (which is buttressed by the west). China, meanwhile has no skin in the game.
Additionally if there is some sort of flashpoint between Russia and America no-one here knows how far either side is prepared to go. Everyone assumes global Armageddon but perhaps the risk/reward scenario is not enough for either side to go nuts.
NOBODY in their right mind wants war! Syria's alleged actions may force the inevitability of such action and once again people will die...the innocent civilians. | |
| It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan |
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| Syria World War 3 on 21:47 - Apr 13 with 2054 views | Jack_Meoff |
| Syria World War 3 on 20:47 - Apr 13 by Sir_Robin |
Don't be silly. His kind are only ever willing to fight to the last drop of other people's blood.
He hasn't explained what that something is either. What would the targets be? What would be considered a successful campaign? What would be the rules of engagement? How would we ensure that we don't escalate the conflict into a full scale war with Russia? These are all questions that need to be answered. If regime change is the aim then I have very bad news for him. That would not be possible without going to war with Russia and possibly even Iran and China as well.
Interesting clip there. And he's the former head of the armed forces in Iraq, not some loony lefty like me. |
Everyone in the country should see this clip. Everyone. | |
| If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face--forever. |
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| Syria World War 3 on 21:53 - Apr 13 with 2042 views | DJack |
| Syria World War 3 on 21:47 - Apr 13 by Jack_Meoff |
Everyone in the country should see this clip. Everyone. |
Sorry Didn't mean to quote you JM.
The often maligned Diane Abbot:
Labour's Shadow Home Secretary Diane Abbott hesitated repeatedly when asked by BBC Radio 4's Today programme whether she believed Russia or the US presented a "greater threat" to world peace.
"At this point, after Salisbury, and with the unremitting support of Russia for Assad, you have to say Russia isn't bringing forward the cause for world peace," she said.
Pushed again on the point by presenter Nick Robinson, Ms Abbott clarified: "It's clear, that at this point, Russia - its role in Syria… its role in the poison gas attack in Salisbury - is a greater threat to world peace than the United States."
Ms Abbott also joined calls from UK opposition parties and some Conservative MPs for Parliament to have a vote before any military action is taken, saying it would be "outrageous" if the request is denied.
"The reason they're not doing it is they are frightened they'll lose the vote."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43751440 [Post edited 13 Apr 2018 21:54]
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| It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan |
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| Syria World War 3 on 22:07 - Apr 13 with 2013 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Syria World War 3 on 21:24 - Apr 13 by Neath_Jack |
Can none of you answer this?
Where's Lisa and Loh, they'd surely know the answer. |
I’ll give it a go but it might sound slightly flippant but it’s not meant that way. Trump is a bona fide maniac who makes policy on twitter depending on what mood he wakes up in on any given morning. If he hadn’t somehow found himself president of the USA he’d be the ubiquitous reality TV nonentity saying outrageous stuff just to get attention. Which is exactly what he was previously.
He’s their Katie Hopkins.
May is in desperate political trouble domestically and a good war is always handy to distract attention. She’s also desperate to be seen as statesmanlike, something (else) she’s consistently terrible at so has seemingly decided to hang onto trump’s ridiculous coattails in an attempt to get some international credibility. It’ll all go tits up when she inevitably caves in to demands for a parliamentary vote before committing troops.
Macron is more difficult. He’s relatively newly elected, seems fairly sane and, unless things have changed since the last time I looked, isn’t in any particular political strife. Perhaps he genuinely believes it’s the right thing to do. Who knows.
One thing I am sure of is that the last thing either of the first two cares about is the suffering of the Syrian people. Politics, politics, politics.
As for the war crimes thing, they’d have to go and get him before they could put him on trial so military action would be needed anyway. And Russia won’t have it. It’s a non starter, at least while Putin has his back. |  |
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| Syria World War 3 on 22:17 - Apr 13 with 1994 views | DJack |
| Syria World War 3 on 22:07 - Apr 13 by exiledclaseboy |
I’ll give it a go but it might sound slightly flippant but it’s not meant that way. Trump is a bona fide maniac who makes policy on twitter depending on what mood he wakes up in on any given morning. If he hadn’t somehow found himself president of the USA he’d be the ubiquitous reality TV nonentity saying outrageous stuff just to get attention. Which is exactly what he was previously.
He’s their Katie Hopkins.
May is in desperate political trouble domestically and a good war is always handy to distract attention. She’s also desperate to be seen as statesmanlike, something (else) she’s consistently terrible at so has seemingly decided to hang onto trump’s ridiculous coattails in an attempt to get some international credibility. It’ll all go tits up when she inevitably caves in to demands for a parliamentary vote before committing troops.
Macron is more difficult. He’s relatively newly elected, seems fairly sane and, unless things have changed since the last time I looked, isn’t in any particular political strife. Perhaps he genuinely believes it’s the right thing to do. Who knows.
One thing I am sure of is that the last thing either of the first two cares about is the suffering of the Syrian people. Politics, politics, politics.
As for the war crimes thing, they’d have to go and get him before they could put him on trial so military action would be needed anyway. And Russia won’t have it. It’s a non starter, at least while Putin has his back. |
A very good summation but I would add that it's been recently apparent that the military/intelligence heads have pointed out Cheetoh's mistakes and pulled him back a step but things are further complicated by his appointment of John Bolton. *Shudders* | |
| It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan |
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| Syria World War 3 on 22:20 - Apr 13 with 1989 views | max936 |
| Syria World War 3 on 22:07 - Apr 13 by exiledclaseboy |
I’ll give it a go but it might sound slightly flippant but it’s not meant that way. Trump is a bona fide maniac who makes policy on twitter depending on what mood he wakes up in on any given morning. If he hadn’t somehow found himself president of the USA he’d be the ubiquitous reality TV nonentity saying outrageous stuff just to get attention. Which is exactly what he was previously.
He’s their Katie Hopkins.
May is in desperate political trouble domestically and a good war is always handy to distract attention. She’s also desperate to be seen as statesmanlike, something (else) she’s consistently terrible at so has seemingly decided to hang onto trump’s ridiculous coattails in an attempt to get some international credibility. It’ll all go tits up when she inevitably caves in to demands for a parliamentary vote before committing troops.
Macron is more difficult. He’s relatively newly elected, seems fairly sane and, unless things have changed since the last time I looked, isn’t in any particular political strife. Perhaps he genuinely believes it’s the right thing to do. Who knows.
One thing I am sure of is that the last thing either of the first two cares about is the suffering of the Syrian people. Politics, politics, politics.
As for the war crimes thing, they’d have to go and get him before they could put him on trial so military action would be needed anyway. And Russia won’t have it. It’s a non starter, at least while Putin has his back. |
Things are stepping up it seems US have sent more ships to the region and Russia are saying there'll be a response if military action is taken.
Its right what other posters have said there's other hotspots in the World but we don't look to intervene in those, yet the Middle east is always fair game, its all about control and finance as always, very dangerous game to play this time though, Russia won't fuk about. |  |
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| Syria World War 3 on 22:30 - Apr 13 with 1979 views | DJack |
| Syria World War 3 on 22:20 - Apr 13 by max936 |
Things are stepping up it seems US have sent more ships to the region and Russia are saying there'll be a response if military action is taken.
Its right what other posters have said there's other hotspots in the World but we don't look to intervene in those, yet the Middle east is always fair game, its all about control and finance as always, very dangerous game to play this time though, Russia won't fuk about. |
"~ Russia won't fuk about."
They didn't fûck about in South Ossetia, the Crimea, Afghanistan, Chechnya, et al
They did however mis-step in Salisbury and in Ghouta. Unfortunately innocent peoples lives are at risk. | |
| It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan |
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| Syria World War 3 on 22:42 - Apr 13 with 1958 views | max936 |
| Syria World War 3 on 22:30 - Apr 13 by DJack |
"~ Russia won't fuk about."
They didn't fûck about in South Ossetia, the Crimea, Afghanistan, Chechnya, et al
They did however mis-step in Salisbury and in Ghouta. Unfortunately innocent peoples lives are at risk. |
Think its the first time that they've said that they'll respond to any attack though on a Country though. | |
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| Syria World War 3 on 22:45 - Apr 13 with 1950 views | max936 |
| Syria World War 3 on 22:30 - Apr 13 by DJack |
"~ Russia won't fuk about."
They didn't fûck about in South Ossetia, the Crimea, Afghanistan, Chechnya, et al
They did however mis-step in Salisbury and in Ghouta. Unfortunately innocent peoples lives are at risk. |
If the US us and France and anyone else attacks, it'll escalate bigtime and quickly this time. | |
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| Syria World War 3 on 22:46 - Apr 13 with 1948 views | DJack |
| Syria World War 3 on 22:42 - Apr 13 by max936 |
Think its the first time that they've said that they'll respond to any attack though on a Country though. |
Russia will never turn it's back on it's allies (buffer countries). | |
| It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan |
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| Syria World War 3 on 22:49 - Apr 13 with 1938 views | max936 |
| Syria World War 3 on 22:46 - Apr 13 by DJack |
Russia will never turn it's back on it's allies (buffer countries). |
Which way will Turkey turn if it kicks off I wonder, Iran there as well, Israel are neighbours to, think dialogue is the way to go with this one, no body wins if this kicks off, least of all us. | |
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| Syria World War 3 on 22:52 - Apr 13 with 1929 views | DJack |
Erdogan is no friend of Assad but he also doesn't want the Kurds to have any sort of autonomy anywhere in the region. | |
| It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan |
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| Syria World War 3 on 22:58 - Apr 13 with 1917 views | bluey_the_blue |
I just don't get the "need to talk, war doesn't help" mantra.
I get that some believe UN and OPCW are in on some major conspiracy, but Assad has form for chemical weapons.
Five attacks using Sarin in 2013. Chlorine bombs in 2014 and 2015. It makes the "he's winning, why would he do it" line questionable - Assad is a homicidal psycho. IS are worse, sure but it's pretty clear talking nicely to Assad isn't going to achieve anything. |  | | |
| Syria World War 3 on 23:12 - Apr 13 with 1905 views | Lord_Bony |
Could be the Jihadists set off a chemical attack just to bring the West in and help them out?
Just saying,it’s possible.
Right now Isis are very happy how this is going...just when they thought it was all over. | |
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| Syria World War 3 on 23:24 - Apr 13 with 1876 views | longlostjack |
Even if it was Assad I don't see what a rocket attack will do. Will it dislodge him from power? Of course not. Better the West stay out of the whole cesspit and let Russia make tits of themselves like they did in Afghanistan. |  |
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| Syria World War 3 on 23:51 - Apr 13 with 1851 views | yescomeon |
Interesting argument over the chemical weapons.
I think I lean towards the "it doesn't make sense for him to do it there and then" camp. Bluey makes a good point to be fair. When does it ever make sense to use chemical weapons on civilians, his own no less. Anyone capable of that must be capable of anything. On that side of the argument it's possible that Assad thinks with Russia behind him he can get away with it. If he does think that then I think he's not far off as I don't think anyone will call Russia's bluff, whether it's a bluff or not.
We should stay well out of it. I'd much sooner see the cash we'd be willing to throw away on military intervention spent on assisting Syrian refugees. |  |
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| Syria World War 3 on 23:54 - Apr 13 with 1848 views | Jack_Meoff |
| Syria World War 3 on 22:58 - Apr 13 by bluey_the_blue |
I just don't get the "need to talk, war doesn't help" mantra.
I get that some believe UN and OPCW are in on some major conspiracy, but Assad has form for chemical weapons.
Five attacks using Sarin in 2013. Chlorine bombs in 2014 and 2015. It makes the "he's winning, why would he do it" line questionable - Assad is a homicidal psycho. IS are worse, sure but it's pretty clear talking nicely to Assad isn't going to achieve anything. |
Proof? You've Made these accusations, you have to prove them.
So f*cking do so. Not with media hysteria. With fact.
[Post edited 14 Apr 2018 0:39]
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| If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face--forever. |
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| Syria World War 3 on 01:07 - Apr 14 with 1817 views | Nookiejack |
| Syria World War 3 on 23:51 - Apr 13 by yescomeon |
Interesting argument over the chemical weapons.
I think I lean towards the "it doesn't make sense for him to do it there and then" camp. Bluey makes a good point to be fair. When does it ever make sense to use chemical weapons on civilians, his own no less. Anyone capable of that must be capable of anything. On that side of the argument it's possible that Assad thinks with Russia behind him he can get away with it. If he does think that then I think he's not far off as I don't think anyone will call Russia's bluff, whether it's a bluff or not.
We should stay well out of it. I'd much sooner see the cash we'd be willing to throw away on military intervention spent on assisting Syrian refugees. |
Robert Fisk has also noted the hypocrisy of the West in respect of saying if we do nothing about the Chemical attacks they will then be used widely - as the West allowed 'Agricultural fertiliser' to be supplied to Saddam in respect of the Kurds.
We also didn't do anything about Saddam's gas attacks against Iran in the Iran v Iraq war.
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/theresa-may-syria-war-uk-chemical-weapons-a
What he also says in that article is that there could have been Chemical attacks to dislodge the Jihadis from all the tunnels that they were in. I am totally opposed to war but totally respect Robert Fisk's views.
He has been running a number of articles from the war zone - where he talks about the network of tunnels the Jihadis were operating in. He comments that there were large number of Jihadis when they came out of the tunnels and you never see them on the film reports.
He comments that the Jihadis are essentially from Al Qaeda, the people who flew the planes into the twin towers.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/syria-eastern-ghouta-rebels
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/syria-eastern-ghouta-islamist-fighters-russ | | | |
| Syria World War 3 on 01:29 - Apr 14 with 1771 views | DJack |
Thanks for these articles. The reporters weariness with war comes through in all of the pieces. | |
| It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan |
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