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Windrush 14:34 - Apr 16 with 5757 viewslondonlisa2001

What an absolutely sickening episode in the life of this country the current issue with the so-called Windrush children is.

These people arrived here as kids, their parents answering a call for help, they've lived here for 50 years, worked, paid taxes and national insurance, brought up their own families, and are now being deported or threatened.

It is shameful.
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Windrush on 21:47 - Apr 17 with 529 viewsLohengrin

Windrush on 21:42 - Apr 17 by exiledclaseboy

Presumably the GP of the man in the case highlighted here would have been well known to him, given how long he’s been in the country. Not going near the eligibility issue because that’s a different discussion.


That just a guess the same as mine, though mine seems probable.


Edit: Eligibility does seem the kernel of the matter.
[Post edited 17 Apr 21:53]

An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it.

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Windrush on 21:52 - Apr 17 with 506 viewsexiledclaseboy

Windrush on 21:47 - Apr 17 by Lohengrin

That just a guess the same as mine, though mine seems probable.


Edit: Eligibility does seem the kernel of the matter.
[Post edited 17 Apr 21:53]


Yes, hence my use of the word “presumably”mun.

Edit to respond to your edit - no. The main point under discussion for the last couple of pages is how hospitals decide who to ask to prove that they’re eligible.
[Post edited 17 Apr 21:55]

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Windrush on 21:55 - Apr 17 with 499 viewssherpajacob

Windrush on 21:40 - Apr 17 by Lohengrin

It’s likely as a result of a prompt from a GP surgery or Consultant. We’re not talking about stitches at A & E here we’re talking about treatments costing tens if not hundreds of thousands of pounds over time. The question of eligibility seen in that light is not unreasonable, is it?


You really are taking Theresa May's side in this?

if they've been on a GP's records since the 1970's, what would prompt someone at the hospital to ask for proof of settled status or nationality.

If asked verbally the guy would have said I'm British, if asked for documents he would have been able to provide proof of address, NI number, he'd be on the electoral register and council tax register.

However that's not good enough in a hostile environment, because his birth certificate says Jamaica.

I've never been asked to prove I'm British at a hospital or GP, why do they ask some but not others. is it the way they look?

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Windrush on 21:56 - Apr 17 with 496 viewslondonlisa2001

Windrush on 21:39 - Apr 17 by exiledclaseboy

I genuinely don’t see how that’s possible without a national ID database, which as we all know doesn’t exist.


HMRC must have a reasonably full database? Unless someone has neither paid tax nor received benefits.

And all they need is name and address to find all records.

But that's speculation as I don't know.
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Windrush on 21:56 - Apr 17 with 496 viewsoh_tommy_tommy

Any millionaire dark people from the windrush told to get out ?

Poll: DO you support the uk getting involved in Syria

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Windrush on 21:57 - Apr 17 with 493 viewsLohengrin

Windrush on 21:52 - Apr 17 by exiledclaseboy

Yes, hence my use of the word “presumably”mun.

Edit to respond to your edit - no. The main point under discussion for the last couple of pages is how hospitals decide who to ask to prove that they’re eligible.
[Post edited 17 Apr 21:55]


You may presume too much in 2018. The last four or five times I’ve had occasion to visit a surgery I’ve seen as many locums.

‘The family Doctor’ seems like a view of the blue remembered hills now.

An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it.

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Windrush on 21:59 - Apr 17 with 486 viewslondonlisa2001

Windrush on 21:56 - Apr 17 by oh_tommy_tommy

Any millionaire dark people from the windrush told to get out ?


No millionaires from anywhere are asked to get out.

If you have a certain amount of money you are allowed to live wherever you fancy. You can't claim anything, so no one is bothered. Same applies to us. Which is why UK pop stars, film stars, etc etc can go and live in the States whenever they want.

That's the same the world over.
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Windrush on 22:00 - Apr 17 with 484 viewsexiledclaseboy

Windrush on 21:57 - Apr 17 by Lohengrin

You may presume too much in 2018. The last four or five times I’ve had occasion to visit a surgery I’ve seen as many locums.

‘The family Doctor’ seems like a view of the blue remembered hills now.


So what would lead even a locum GP to decide to flag up an ostensibly British man who’s been here for literally decades? What could possibly make a GP consider that he may not be entitled to the treatment he needs. What’s the criteria? The thought process?

Poll: Who will you vote for on 8 June?

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Windrush on 22:01 - Apr 17 with 477 viewslondonlisa2001

Windrush on 21:57 - Apr 17 by Lohengrin

You may presume too much in 2018. The last four or five times I’ve had occasion to visit a surgery I’ve seen as many locums.

‘The family Doctor’ seems like a view of the blue remembered hills now.


Your surgery have records of you though, whichever actual doctor you see.

I have to give name and date of birth every time I see the doctor to check I'm registered with them.
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Windrush on 22:02 - Apr 17 with 475 viewsexiledclaseboy

Windrush on 21:56 - Apr 17 by londonlisa2001

HMRC must have a reasonably full database? Unless someone has neither paid tax nor received benefits.

And all they need is name and address to find all records.

But that's speculation as I don't know.


HMRC’s database, if it even exists in the form we’re speculating about, would be a database of people who pay or have paid tax of some form. It won’t be a database proving that anyone has legal leave to be in the U.K.

Edited to add - it would also break all kinds of data protection laws for HMRC to share data collected for a specific purpose with the NHS to use for an entirely different purpose.
[Post edited 17 Apr 22:04]

Poll: Who will you vote for on 8 June?

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Windrush on 22:04 - Apr 17 with 465 viewslondonlisa2001

Windrush on 22:02 - Apr 17 by exiledclaseboy

HMRC’s database, if it even exists in the form we’re speculating about, would be a database of people who pay or have paid tax of some form. It won’t be a database proving that anyone has legal leave to be in the U.K.

Edited to add - it would also break all kinds of data protection laws for HMRC to share data collected for a specific purpose with the NHS to use for an entirely different purpose.
[Post edited 17 Apr 22:04]


No, that's not the case. It shows residence, ordinary residence and domicile, as the tax treatment (for various things) is dependent on those classifications.

Edited to add - that's why I said earlier ordinary residence is not where you live, it's a tax status.
[Post edited 17 Apr 22:05]
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Windrush on 22:06 - Apr 17 with 454 viewsexiledclaseboy

Windrush on 22:04 - Apr 17 by londonlisa2001

No, that's not the case. It shows residence, ordinary residence and domicile, as the tax treatment (for various things) is dependent on those classifications.

Edited to add - that's why I said earlier ordinary residence is not where you live, it's a tax status.
[Post edited 17 Apr 22:05]


See my edit but even with your facts, which I don’t dispute at all because you know more about this stuff than me, it still won’t be a complete database of all those with leave to remain. It’s not fit for the purposes we’re discussing here.

Poll: Who will you vote for on 8 June?

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Windrush on 22:06 - Apr 17 with 454 viewsoh_tommy_tommy

Windrush on 21:59 - Apr 17 by londonlisa2001

No millionaires from anywhere are asked to get out.

If you have a certain amount of money you are allowed to live wherever you fancy. You can't claim anything, so no one is bothered. Same applies to us. Which is why UK pop stars, film stars, etc etc can go and live in the States whenever they want.

That's the same the world over.


Thanks

So if you are rich you can stay ,classy

I wonder if they ask the dark foreigners to see their papers.... stop and search and Show me You Papers or Go Home ?

Post Brexit will be fun

Poll: DO you support the uk getting involved in Syria

1
Windrush on 22:07 - Apr 17 with 449 viewslondonlisa2001

Windrush on 22:02 - Apr 17 by exiledclaseboy

HMRC’s database, if it even exists in the form we’re speculating about, would be a database of people who pay or have paid tax of some form. It won’t be a database proving that anyone has legal leave to be in the U.K.

Edited to add - it would also break all kinds of data protection laws for HMRC to share data collected for a specific purpose with the NHS to use for an entirely different purpose.
[Post edited 17 Apr 22:04]


On the data protection point, they are getting the info from somewhere. The NHS themselves don't collect that info as far as any if us are aware.
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Windrush on 22:09 - Apr 17 with 438 viewsexiledclaseboy

Windrush on 22:07 - Apr 17 by londonlisa2001

On the data protection point, they are getting the info from somewhere. The NHS themselves don't collect that info as far as any if us are aware.


Well if that’s the case it’s well dodgy and this story has some way to run. My own instinct is that the criteria is much simpler - and entirely random.

Poll: Who will you vote for on 8 June?

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Windrush on 22:13 - Apr 17 with 429 viewsLohengrin

Windrush on 22:00 - Apr 17 by exiledclaseboy

So what would lead even a locum GP to decide to flag up an ostensibly British man who’s been here for literally decades? What could possibly make a GP consider that he may not be entitled to the treatment he needs. What’s the criteria? The thought process?


An admission by the patient that he’s not a British citizen?

An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it.

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Windrush on 22:15 - Apr 17 with 418 viewsexiledclaseboy

Windrush on 22:13 - Apr 17 by Lohengrin

An admission by the patient that he’s not a British citizen?


“Hi, doc. I’ve got a lump. Can you help please? By the way, I’m not a British citizen.”

Sounds plausible.

Poll: Who will you vote for on 8 June?

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Windrush on 22:18 - Apr 17 with 413 viewslondonlisa2001

Windrush on 22:06 - Apr 17 by oh_tommy_tommy

Thanks

So if you are rich you can stay ,classy

I wonder if they ask the dark foreigners to see their papers.... stop and search and Show me You Papers or Go Home ?

Post Brexit will be fun


It's the same for us the other way round Tommy.

The point in being 'rich' is that you don't use the publicly funded resources. You wouldn't be able to use the NHS for example, but I can't imagine they try to. You can't claim benefits of any type, so no one cares. Here you have to invest a certain amount of money (I think it's £2m but can't remember without checking) into the UK. That includes putting it into the UK stock market, or UK businesses in some way to create economic growth.

I mentioned the shambles that Brexit will cause if this is anything to go by at the start.
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Windrush on 22:20 - Apr 17 with 406 viewslondonlisa2001

Windrush on 22:06 - Apr 17 by exiledclaseboy

See my edit but even with your facts, which I don’t dispute at all because you know more about this stuff than me, it still won’t be a complete database of all those with leave to remain. It’s not fit for the purposes we’re discussing here.


I agree. I was just speculating that it may be quite complete as only those who have never paid tax not received benefits wouldn't be included. But I don't know.

Someone should put in a freedom of information request to see what it is they use...
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Windrush on 22:21 - Apr 17 with 405 viewslondonlisa2001

Windrush on 22:13 - Apr 17 by Lohengrin

An admission by the patient that he’s not a British citizen?


That's certainly not the case as these people didn't realise they weren't as far as I can tell. Nor did any sensible person I would imagine.
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Windrush on 22:22 - Apr 17 with 404 viewsLohengrin

Windrush on 22:15 - Apr 17 by exiledclaseboy

“Hi, doc. I’ve got a lump. Can you help please? By the way, I’m not a British citizen.”

Sounds plausible.


“I recognise that accent. Trinidad?”

“ Close. Jamaica, actually.”

That sounds plausible.

In 2015 NHS reports were stating that efforts were being made to recoup some £500m for the treatment of the non-eligible.
[Post edited 17 Apr 23:52]

An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it.

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Windrush on 22:37 - Apr 17 with 384 viewssherpajacob

Windrush on 22:13 - Apr 17 by Lohengrin

An admission by the patient that he’s not a British citizen?


Why would someone who considers themselves British say they are not?

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Windrush on 22:55 - Apr 17 with 354 viewssherpajacob

Windrush on 22:21 - Apr 17 by londonlisa2001

That's certainly not the case as these people didn't realise they weren't as far as I can tell. Nor did any sensible person I would imagine.


Sensible = non racist.

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Windrush on 23:02 - Apr 17 with 348 viewsLohengrin

Windrush on 22:55 - Apr 17 by sherpajacob

Sensible = non racist.


You think people fall foul of officialdom solely on the basis of race? Hasn’t Daz just given you the example of his white, Canadian wife being subject to the same scrutiny?

An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it.

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Windrush on 23:31 - Apr 17 with 328 viewsLohengrin

Windrush on 22:01 - Apr 17 by londonlisa2001

Your surgery have records of you though, whichever actual doctor you see.

I have to give name and date of birth every time I see the doctor to check I'm registered with them.


Of course, yes. Records going back decades detailing every ailment, injection or fracture. In order for my parents to have registered me as a child in the first place would no doubt have required a birth certificate for me and production of identification by them.

An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it.

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