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RIP Alfie Evans 12:40 - Apr 25 with 6268 viewsmagicdaps10

Such a sad story and really does open your eyes to things in the world. Cant even imagine how the parents are feeling but rightly or wrongly are fighting hard for their son.

Lets hope for a miracle here.
[Post edited 28 Apr 2018 8:23]

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Alfie Evans on 13:05 - Apr 25 with 3302 viewsLegend83

For balance, and although I can't put myself in the shoes of these parents and what they must be going through, a lot of people have to accept their children / relatives have zero chance of recovery or meaningful life and do so quietly and with dignity.

This has been a complete circus and the "Alfie's Army" are an utter disgrace / pond-life - imagine if you are the parent of another child being treated at Alder Hey and have to put up with a mob trying to storm the hospital, let alone the staff there who put their lives into caring for people.

The whole thing has now been hijacked by the pro-life crazies. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5655109/Judge-slams-fanatical-deluded-le

I can't help but see the irony in Alfie's dad going on the offensive / dropping the "murder" bomb against Alder Hey, the same hospital that saved the life of the lad he stabbed and probably helped him avoid a murder stint himself.

Poor wee lad; the rest of it, no thanks.
[Post edited 25 Apr 2018 13:10]
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Alfie Evans on 14:55 - Apr 25 with 3185 viewsmagicdaps10

I cant get into with too much detail as i put my hands up and admit i dont know the whole story.
But when i see pictures of the little boy it really upsets me that something cant be done.

Now and again a miracle can happen and i really hope this is a case for little Alfie.

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Alfie Evans on 15:17 - Apr 25 with 3151 viewsDarran

I’m not fully up to speed with all the details but if there’s a crowd funding thingy in place and they’ve got money to pay to go to Italy they should leave him go.

I know one thing though there’s some right fuçking experts on the Internet.

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Alfie Evans on 15:30 - Apr 25 with 3124 viewsmagicdaps10

I have to admit that i dont know to much on it but have just read up on it, really pulled at my heartstrings this story.

They want to send him to an Italian hospital where they are willing to look at him and care for him and all at no cost to the NHS.

Just let the little boy go. There is no more they can or are willing to do for him so surely there is no gain by not letting him go.

The world is just getting more crazier by the day.

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Alfie Evans on 15:31 - Apr 25 with 3120 viewslondonlisa2001

This entire situation is desperately sad.

Tragic for the little boy.

Tragic for the parents.

Tragedy made so much worse by the parents being cynically manipulated by a combination of right wing morons who are aiming to use this to argue against a nationally owned healthcare system (including US politicians who frankly should know better), and the religious right who are being shamefully supported by the Catholic Church, all the way up to the Pope who should frankly hang his head.

We seem to live in a world where the opinions (multiple opinions) of teams of expert doctors about the little one's ability to function in any way are being ignored in favour of moronic screaming hordes with barely a science GCSE between them, and grown adults who are talking about God's intervention. Meanwhile, the Italian hospital (and what a reputation they have by the way), also say that yeh can't do anything at all, but are prepared to let him die over there at a cost of €65k for two weeks, in the 'arms of the Catholic Church'.

Thankfully, the courts in the Uk are there to act for the rights of the baby himself. Not his parents. Not the screaming masses. But the child.

The medical teams think that it is possible that the little one can feel pain, and have said that moving him may cause distress for him (i.e, may cause him more pain). And for no reason. Other than the ridiculousness of the Church.

You have people trying to break into the hospital carrying equipment that according to doctors, would cause him pain. Teams of doctors that have kept him alive for the past 18 months or so, treated him, looked after him every minute of every day being accused of being murderers, or being compared to Nazis in concentration camps.

It's utterly horrible, but we treat animals better than we treat humans in this situation.
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Alfie Evans on 15:31 - Apr 25 with 3118 viewsJoe_bradshaw

I agree Darran.

If my son was lying there with zero hope and there was a chance to take him elsewhere which gave him 0.000001% hope then surely it’s my right to take him wherever I want?

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Alfie Evans on 15:33 - Apr 25 with 3113 viewslondonlisa2001

Alfie Evans on 15:30 - Apr 25 by magicdaps10

I have to admit that i dont know to much on it but have just read up on it, really pulled at my heartstrings this story.

They want to send him to an Italian hospital where they are willing to look at him and care for him and all at no cost to the NHS.

Just let the little boy go. There is no more they can or are willing to do for him so surely there is no gain by not letting him go.

The world is just getting more crazier by the day.


They are willing to give him exactly the same end of life treatment as the hospital at present are giving him. For €65k for two weeks. But surrounded in a 'Catholic embrace'.

Do you think it's worth causing the little baby pain for that? Really? Doesn't he have any rights as far as you are concerned?
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Alfie Evans on 15:37 - Apr 25 with 3106 viewslondonlisa2001

Alfie Evans on 15:31 - Apr 25 by Joe_bradshaw

I agree Darran.

If my son was lying there with zero hope and there was a chance to take him elsewhere which gave him 0.000001% hope then surely it’s my right to take him wherever I want?


In this country, you don't own your children.

Would you also insist that you had all the rights if you had a child who needed life saving surgery and you were a Jehovah's Witness who didn't agree with blood transfusions for example? No. Hospitals here would treat. Because we recognise the legal rights of children in this country. Thankfully.

And the Italian hospital are not offering treatment or saying they can do anything other than what is being done here.
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Alfie Evans on 15:46 - Apr 25 with 3088 viewsAmbergambler

Alfie Evans on 15:31 - Apr 25 by Joe_bradshaw

I agree Darran.

If my son was lying there with zero hope and there was a chance to take him elsewhere which gave him 0.000001% hope then surely it’s my right to take him wherever I want?


Not if it would cause him pain and not be in his best interests.
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Alfie Evans on 15:47 - Apr 25 with 3085 viewsmagicdaps10

Alfie Evans on 15:33 - Apr 25 by londonlisa2001

They are willing to give him exactly the same end of life treatment as the hospital at present are giving him. For €65k for two weeks. But surrounded in a 'Catholic embrace'.

Do you think it's worth causing the little baby pain for that? Really? Doesn't he have any rights as far as you are concerned?


As a parent, i would fight for any hope that my child has.

He was supposedly meant to die after 30 minutes of the life support being turned off but here we are 30 hours+ later and he is still fighting.......without hope we are nothing.

The family may be wrong in what they are doing but i would be doing exactly the same if i were in their shoes. Call me naive, call me ignorant.........when it comes to children especially your won then you would do anything it takes.

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Alfie Evans on 15:55 - Apr 25 with 3063 viewsLegend83

Alfie Evans on 15:31 - Apr 25 by Joe_bradshaw

I agree Darran.

If my son was lying there with zero hope and there was a chance to take him elsewhere which gave him 0.000001% hope then surely it’s my right to take him wherever I want?


What if the advice was that there was no 0.00001% better chance but exactly the same outcome, and in doing so you were likely causing your child pain and distress before their ultimate demise?

It's a tragic situation but the parents are being given terrible advice here and the dad in particular is getting caught up in the social media / right wing / catholic whirlwind of nonsense.
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Alfie Evans on 15:57 - Apr 25 with 3057 viewsLegend83

Alfie Evans on 15:17 - Apr 25 by Darran

I’m not fully up to speed with all the details but if there’s a crowd funding thingy in place and they’ve got money to pay to go to Italy they should leave him go.

I know one thing though there’s some right fuçking experts on the Internet.


Even if the consensus is moving him may cause him distress and pain for zero increase in recovery chance?
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Alfie Evans on 15:57 - Apr 25 with 3054 viewslondonlisa2001

Alfie Evans on 15:47 - Apr 25 by magicdaps10

As a parent, i would fight for any hope that my child has.

He was supposedly meant to die after 30 minutes of the life support being turned off but here we are 30 hours+ later and he is still fighting.......without hope we are nothing.

The family may be wrong in what they are doing but i would be doing exactly the same if i were in their shoes. Call me naive, call me ignorant.........when it comes to children especially your won then you would do anything it takes.


Of course we'd all do the same. No one is arguing otherwise.

Which is why the manipulation of them by both their church and the right wing zealots is so utterly horrible.

According to medical people, the only part of the little one's brain that is left is the bit around the brain stem that controls stuff like breathing, reflexes, blinking etc etc. All of the 'higher functions' are in the parts of the brain that have gone. The brain cannot regenerate.

The issue is that the part of the brain which 'feels pain' is also the bit that is still there at the moment.

He's not fighting. He is existing. Which is profoundly cruel. Even more so if there is a chance that he is feeling pain. Every single medical person agrees (including the Italian hospital) that there is a zero chance of recovery of any higher function. People are effectively calling for him to be moved (and possibly suffer), so that 'God' can intervene. It's sick.
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Alfie Evans on 17:03 - Apr 25 with 2955 viewsDarran

Alfie Evans on 15:57 - Apr 25 by Legend83

Even if the consensus is moving him may cause him distress and pain for zero increase in recovery chance?


Well I’d imagine the Italians were prepared to do it properly.

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Alfie Evans on 17:10 - Apr 25 with 2948 viewsLegend83

Alfie Evans on 17:03 - Apr 25 by Darran

Well I’d imagine the Italians were prepared to do it properly.


Do what properly?
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Alfie Evans on 17:22 - Apr 25 with 2932 viewsswanforthemoney

Good luck to Alfie in his fight, I hope he survives and lives a long and happy life. Miracles happen. Look at Lazarus.

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Alfie Evans on 17:31 - Apr 25 with 2922 viewsploppy

Alfie Evans on 15:31 - Apr 25 by londonlisa2001

This entire situation is desperately sad.

Tragic for the little boy.

Tragic for the parents.

Tragedy made so much worse by the parents being cynically manipulated by a combination of right wing morons who are aiming to use this to argue against a nationally owned healthcare system (including US politicians who frankly should know better), and the religious right who are being shamefully supported by the Catholic Church, all the way up to the Pope who should frankly hang his head.

We seem to live in a world where the opinions (multiple opinions) of teams of expert doctors about the little one's ability to function in any way are being ignored in favour of moronic screaming hordes with barely a science GCSE between them, and grown adults who are talking about God's intervention. Meanwhile, the Italian hospital (and what a reputation they have by the way), also say that yeh can't do anything at all, but are prepared to let him die over there at a cost of €65k for two weeks, in the 'arms of the Catholic Church'.

Thankfully, the courts in the Uk are there to act for the rights of the baby himself. Not his parents. Not the screaming masses. But the child.

The medical teams think that it is possible that the little one can feel pain, and have said that moving him may cause distress for him (i.e, may cause him more pain). And for no reason. Other than the ridiculousness of the Church.

You have people trying to break into the hospital carrying equipment that according to doctors, would cause him pain. Teams of doctors that have kept him alive for the past 18 months or so, treated him, looked after him every minute of every day being accused of being murderers, or being compared to Nazis in concentration camps.

It's utterly horrible, but we treat animals better than we treat humans in this situation.


Well said Lisa. Couldn't have put it better myself. Unfortunately, this has gone the same way as the Charlie Gard circus.

Not sure why this is on the football only board mind.
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Alfie Evans on 17:37 - Apr 25 with 2900 viewsDarran

Alfie Evans on 17:10 - Apr 25 by Legend83

Do what properly?


Go away.

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Alfie Evans on 18:03 - Apr 25 with 2864 viewslondonlisa2001

Alfie Evans on 17:03 - Apr 25 by Darran

Well I’d imagine the Italians were prepared to do it properly.


It's the pressure inside the plane Darran that they're worried about. The Italians can't do anything about that. I'm sure we've all been on flights where babies and little ones are crying because the pressure changes are hurting them.
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Alfie Evans on 18:07 - Apr 25 with 2859 viewsAnotherJohn

This is a tragic case with little chance of a happy outcome. One thing the case highlights is that the way the law operates and the relative power of the doctor and parents are not the same around the world. Writing about the earlier Charlie Gard case, the American bioethicist Arthur Caplan commented on how the US and UK in particular approach things differently. Usually in the USA the courts and the doctors give more weight to the parents' views, as long as they can pay for the treatment they request. Several American writers say the difference can be traced to the UK's single payer National Health Service, which they claim will put practical limits on what can be spent on individual cases with a terminal prognosis. The cynics suggest that our system is reluctant to allow parents, even those who have private finance and place no extra burden on the NHS, to seek experimental treatments that are unlikely to work because it will raise the expectations of those who rely on public funding.

As far as I can see the Italian physicians are indeed offering a different palliative care regime (Alder Hey has ceased life extending care) and do not believe that this approach goes against the Hippocratic oath. As paediatrics is increasingly about care for the family rather than just the child, I think i would give the parents their wish even though the outcome will still be gloomy. Personally I am uneasy that law in Western countries like the UK is expanding its scope and covering decisions that in different places would have been taken by families. This is a very difficult area, but if Charlie has the extensive brain damage that is reported, it seems unlikely that his suffering will be much greater in an Italian hospital and the family will feel that they did everything that could be done.
[Post edited 25 Apr 2018 20:37]
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Alfie Evans on 18:09 - Apr 25 with 2854 viewsAmbergambler

Alfie Evans on 17:22 - Apr 25 by swanforthemoney

Good luck to Alfie in his fight, I hope he survives and lives a long and happy life. Miracles happen. Look at Lazarus.


I'm sure you mean well - but 'Lazarus'??
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Alfie Evans on 18:44 - Apr 25 with 2809 viewstheloneranger

2 hospitals in Rome and Munich are offering to extend Alfie's life, not save it.

They say he will need a Tracheotomy and a feeding tube just to extend his life, but there is no cure.

So will little Alfie be living or just existing with his severe irreversible brain damage, that's if the courts ever allowed him to travel??


What I can't understand is why Alfie's father has allowed himself to be manipulated into serving 3 summonses onto 3 doctors for " Conspiracy to Murder" Alfie!!
[Post edited 25 Apr 2018 18:59]

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Alfie Evans on 19:05 - Apr 25 with 2771 viewsDippy

Alfie Evans on 18:44 - Apr 25 by theloneranger

2 hospitals in Rome and Munich are offering to extend Alfie's life, not save it.

They say he will need a Tracheotomy and a feeding tube just to extend his life, but there is no cure.

So will little Alfie be living or just existing with his severe irreversible brain damage, that's if the courts ever allowed him to travel??


What I can't understand is why Alfie's father has allowed himself to be manipulated into serving 3 summonses onto 3 doctors for " Conspiracy to Murder" Alfie!!
[Post edited 25 Apr 2018 18:59]


rare undiagnosed degenerative neurological condition.

His brain is still in the developmental stage..

His progress is in nature's hands.. he'll either recover functioning or not..

But as the experts who look at this everyday say.. the chances of recovery to normality are slim..

Are they going to keep Alfie alive, on a 1-5% hope that he recovers 'some' normality.. he could die within a few months, due to his lack of development.

But it's happened before.. children like Alfie have managed to pull through..

But Dr's do put "rare" and a low percentage for a reason.

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Alfie Evans on 19:06 - Apr 25 with 2772 viewsjack2jack

Tragic situation, hard to watch things unfold on a daily basis.
My thoughts are with Alfie and his family.
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Alfie Evans on 09:48 - Apr 26 with 2522 viewsLegend83

Alfie Evans on 17:37 - Apr 25 by Darran

Go away.


I'll ignore that pretty weak response.

Doing it "properly" appears to consist of putting Alfie back on life support and artificially extending his life - to what end? All while potentially causing him more suffering while in transit.

It's an awful awful situation but surely it has to be questioned whether this is in the interest of the child - which trump the interests of the parents.
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