| Mawson to West Ham 15:11 - Jun 14 with 67603 views | andrew |
Deal close. Sky sports breaking. |  |
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| Mawson to West Ham on 11:02 - Jun 29 with 2194 views | hobo |
| Mawson to West Ham on 09:55 - Jun 29 by 34dfgdf54 |
They did it very well too.
How much did we get Michu for again? Also, bringing through Ben Davies when most were calling for us to go out and spend on a left back when Taylor got injured.
Laudrup was in the process of moving on the old guard and got stopped in it's tracks, Jenkins took the mantle, and the amount that cost us is significantly more than what we would have paid Tutumlu.
Edit - Also, worst football? As I keep on saying we were juggling Uefa Cup along with trying to keep afloat in the Premier League, as E20 states, we were a small club playing in a massive league, surely you can see that it's a difficult task. On the whole I do agree it was time for Laudrup to go, things needed freshening up for the run it, but Jenkins trying to play the game Tutumlu and Laudrup played was a complete disaster. [Post edited 29 Jun 2018 9:58]
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Don;t forget, juggling European football along with the worst injury crisis we;d had during our whole time in the PL. We were performing miracles |  | | |
| Mawson to West Ham on 12:25 - Jun 29 with 2066 views | 34dfgdf54 |
| Mawson to West Ham on 11:02 - Jun 29 by hobo |
Don;t forget, juggling European football along with the worst injury crisis we;d had during our whole time in the PL. We were performing miracles |
Exactly.
Didn't help when you had the likes of Monk and Williams in the background causing problems, as they also did with Sousa. That Laudrup side was the best I have ever seen for us, granted I wasn't about during the Toshack era, and built on a relative shoestring budget, which E20 advocates normally, but in this instance chooses to criticise. We were never more financially sound than those years. Jenkins changed things, and baled out as soon as it looked like his investment could be in jeapordy. |  | | |
| Mawson to West Ham on 13:22 - Jun 29 with 2015 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| Mawson to West Ham on 09:55 - Jun 29 by 34dfgdf54 |
They did it very well too.
How much did we get Michu for again? Also, bringing through Ben Davies when most were calling for us to go out and spend on a left back when Taylor got injured.
Laudrup was in the process of moving on the old guard and got stopped in it's tracks, Jenkins took the mantle, and the amount that cost us is significantly more than what we would have paid Tutumlu.
Edit - Also, worst football? As I keep on saying we were juggling Uefa Cup along with trying to keep afloat in the Premier League, as E20 states, we were a small club playing in a massive league, surely you can see that it's a difficult task. On the whole I do agree it was time for Laudrup to go, things needed freshening up for the run it, but Jenkins trying to play the game Tutumlu and Laudrup played was a complete disaster. [Post edited 29 Jun 2018 9:58]
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In the last. 12 months of Laudrup's tenure (even at its worst) was still better than what came afterwards. That is a very strange statement I agree. |  |
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| Mawson to West Ham on 13:32 - Jun 29 with 1990 views | E20Jack |
| Mawson to West Ham on 13:22 - Jun 29 by Brynmill_Jack |
In the last. 12 months of Laudrup's tenure (even at its worst) was still better than what came afterwards. That is a very strange statement I agree. |
That’s because our squad was worse. It isn’t rocket science.
The worse the squad is the worse you will tend to play.
Under Laudrup we looked destined for the drop, regardless of injuries. The feel around the club, the lack of discipline on the field and the complete lack of desire in matches was stark. |  |
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| Mawson to West Ham on 13:36 - Jun 29 with 1984 views | E20Jack |
| Mawson to West Ham on 12:25 - Jun 29 by 34dfgdf54 |
Exactly.
Didn't help when you had the likes of Monk and Williams in the background causing problems, as they also did with Sousa. That Laudrup side was the best I have ever seen for us, granted I wasn't about during the Toshack era, and built on a relative shoestring budget, which E20 advocates normally, but in this instance chooses to criticise. We were never more financially sound than those years. Jenkins changed things, and baled out as soon as it looked like his investment could be in jeapordy. |
Where is the criticism? I have an accurate breakdown of the situation.
Th Laudrup era could only ever be a short term thing. Be that financially or otherwise, the club could not survive under that model.
Not a criticism just an observation of the facts. He had to go, was rightly dismissed. | |
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| Mawson to West Ham on 13:41 - Jun 29 with 1972 views | E20Jack |
| Mawson to West Ham on 09:27 - Jun 29 by Brynmill_Jack |
First paragraph - I forgot to add "within the means of the club". Which is what Laudrup and Tutilu did. Huw's subsequent transfer dealings have got us relegate. I'm not sure why your loyalty to him is so unequivocal , surely even the most blinkered lotyalist would see this?
Williams was on the start of his downslope and was with Monk undermining the manager. Should have gone then but at least we were able to con Everton and get a good return on a player who their fans roundly condemn. |
Whether you forgot to add it, or decide to add it afterwards - it still isn’t true.
I don’t have loyalty to anyone. I say things as they are. Huw Jenkins has done far more for this club than Michael Laudrup or Bayram Tutumlu did. May not be what people want to hear but it is a fact.
There could well be a good reason Monk and Williams wanted to undermine the manager, they knew Swansea more than Laudrup and did not agree in the direction he was taking us (which was down to the Championship on the form of his last 12 months) a point a game wasn’t it?
Oh and Williams was in his prime when Bayram was trying to sell him to other clubs (sounds weird even typing the fact that a managers agent is selling the managers clubs players?!) and a vital cog in being able to hang in at that level for so long. [Post edited 29 Jun 2018 13:43]
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| Mawson to West Ham on 14:10 - Jun 29 with 1914 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| Mawson to West Ham on 13:41 - Jun 29 by E20Jack |
Whether you forgot to add it, or decide to add it afterwards - it still isn’t true.
I don’t have loyalty to anyone. I say things as they are. Huw Jenkins has done far more for this club than Michael Laudrup or Bayram Tutumlu did. May not be what people want to hear but it is a fact.
There could well be a good reason Monk and Williams wanted to undermine the manager, they knew Swansea more than Laudrup and did not agree in the direction he was taking us (which was down to the Championship on the form of his last 12 months) a point a game wasn’t it?
Oh and Williams was in his prime when Bayram was trying to sell him to other clubs (sounds weird even typing the fact that a managers agent is selling the managers clubs players?!) and a vital cog in being able to hang in at that level for so long. [Post edited 29 Jun 2018 13:43]
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Managers not being able to buy and sell who they want is what's got us back in the championship. Relegation to the championship was a self fulfilling prophecy the moment Jenkins started bringing in players whom HE wanted. Enmness, Ngog?
Tutumulu, with all his clauses and backhanders still gave better value for money than Huw did. That side they assembled played the greatest football ever witnessed at the liberty or vetch and our first ever major trophy.
I'll repeat, I definitely believe Huw and co did wonders for the club but their negligence and egos took over and the result is a premature relegation. | |
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| Mawson to West Ham on 14:19 - Jun 29 with 1899 views | Brynmill_Jack |
What good reason would that be then?
"Chico gets coco pops and we're not allowed them"?
Or more likely
"Martin, I'm not getting picked so I'm going to make up sh+tab out the manager".
The latter Id wager.
If you do know another reason please put the record straight. I'd be happy to be proven wrong. | |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| Mawson to West Ham on 14:20 - Jun 29 with 1892 views | E20Jack |
| Mawson to West Ham on 14:10 - Jun 29 by Brynmill_Jack |
Managers not being able to buy and sell who they want is what's got us back in the championship. Relegation to the championship was a self fulfilling prophecy the moment Jenkins started bringing in players whom HE wanted. Enmness, Ngog?
Tutumulu, with all his clauses and backhanders still gave better value for money than Huw did. That side they assembled played the greatest football ever witnessed at the liberty or vetch and our first ever major trophy.
I'll repeat, I definitely believe Huw and co did wonders for the club but their negligence and egos took over and the result is a premature relegation. |
Well it’s not really is it. Why is it only our managers are genius player purchasers? If that is what gets clubs relegated then we doesn’t everyone allow their managers carte blanche?
Managers are generally short term fixtures in a club so it is absolutely not a good idea to go down that route, which is why clubs have commitees, the manager being one of a number of people in that group.
It’s easy to name bad signings, but it’s also easy to name good ones. That’s football.
Also 7 years is the opposite of premature, 2 seasons in the top flight for a club of our size and resources is good going - 7 is a remarkable over stay. [Post edited 29 Jun 2018 14:21]
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| Mawson to West Ham on 14:24 - Jun 29 with 1882 views | E20Jack |
| Mawson to West Ham on 14:19 - Jun 29 by Brynmill_Jack |
What good reason would that be then?
"Chico gets coco pops and we're not allowed them"?
Or more likely
"Martin, I'm not getting picked so I'm going to make up sh+tab out the manager".
The latter Id wager.
If you do know another reason please put the record straight. I'd be happy to be proven wrong. |
Could be many things.
Training regime, devisive manner the club was being run in, a feeling that personal greed was being put before the well being of the club, favouritism to those under the financial ring of the managers agent.
A number of things. | |
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| Mawson to West Ham on 14:31 - Jun 29 with 1875 views | LeonWasGod |
Has he gone yet? 41 days til window shuts (AFLI etc..) |  | | |
| Mawson to West Ham on 14:35 - Jun 29 with 1865 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| Mawson to West Ham on 14:24 - Jun 29 by E20Jack |
Could be many things.
Training regime, devisive manner the club was being run in, a feeling that personal greed was being put before the well being of the club, favouritism to those under the financial ring of the managers agent.
A number of things. |
The one oft quoted is "sleepwalking to relegation" and "an erosion of our club principles". Perhaps they needed eroding. We may have stayed up. Perhaps you'll console yourself that we had a much longer sleepwalk than maybe was first envisaged. Me? For me there was no way Laudrup was taking us down. | |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| Mawson to West Ham on 14:37 - Jun 29 with 1852 views | ploppy |
| Mawson to West Ham on 14:10 - Jun 29 by Brynmill_Jack |
Managers not being able to buy and sell who they want is what's got us back in the championship. Relegation to the championship was a self fulfilling prophecy the moment Jenkins started bringing in players whom HE wanted. Enmness, Ngog?
Tutumulu, with all his clauses and backhanders still gave better value for money than Huw did. That side they assembled played the greatest football ever witnessed at the liberty or vetch and our first ever major trophy.
I'll repeat, I definitely believe Huw and co did wonders for the club but their negligence and egos took over and the result is a premature relegation. |
Disagree. I'm a firm believer that the "club" should buy and sell players, and they should buy players that suit the style of play that the club wants to play. Similarly, we should employ managers who will play the style that the club wants to play. I certainly wouldn't buy a player just because he wants to play for a certain manager - when that manager goes (which he surely will) what incentive does the player have to stay, and what loyalty will he show towards the club. I can see there being some debate as to who/what the "club" is in this context but that's all. | | | |
| Mawson to West Ham on 14:42 - Jun 29 with 1829 views | E20Jack |
| Mawson to West Ham on 14:35 - Jun 29 by Brynmill_Jack |
The one oft quoted is "sleepwalking to relegation" and "an erosion of our club principles". Perhaps they needed eroding. We may have stayed up. Perhaps you'll console yourself that we had a much longer sleepwalk than maybe was first envisaged. Me? For me there was no way Laudrup was taking us down. |
30 points from his last 34 league games disagrees. | |
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| Mawson to West Ham on 15:05 - Jun 29 with 1791 views | jasper_T |
| Mawson to West Ham on 14:37 - Jun 29 by ploppy |
Disagree. I'm a firm believer that the "club" should buy and sell players, and they should buy players that suit the style of play that the club wants to play. Similarly, we should employ managers who will play the style that the club wants to play. I certainly wouldn't buy a player just because he wants to play for a certain manager - when that manager goes (which he surely will) what incentive does the player have to stay, and what loyalty will he show towards the club. I can see there being some debate as to who/what the "club" is in this context but that's all. |
The club and the manager can have very different opinions of players and what "the style of play" means. By all means sign players with a long term vision in mind, but ignoring what the manager thinks leads to a lot of money rotting on the sidelines (Emnes, N'Gog, Tabanou, Mesa etc.)
Doesn't matter if a player is great or awful, if they can't do the specific job a manager wants for a position they're worthless in the short term, and their long term value plummets as their reputation takes a nosedive and any loyalty they might have shown disappears. | | | |
| Mawson to West Ham on 17:25 - Jun 29 with 1692 views | ploppy |
| Mawson to West Ham on 15:05 - Jun 29 by jasper_T |
The club and the manager can have very different opinions of players and what "the style of play" means. By all means sign players with a long term vision in mind, but ignoring what the manager thinks leads to a lot of money rotting on the sidelines (Emnes, N'Gog, Tabanou, Mesa etc.)
Doesn't matter if a player is great or awful, if they can't do the specific job a manager wants for a position they're worthless in the short term, and their long term value plummets as their reputation takes a nosedive and any loyalty they might have shown disappears. |
Really? What's the manager interview process for? It's not rocket surgery.
So, you sign players the manager wants, and the manager leaves after a year (normally). Where does that leave you?
I'm not saying we haven't signed duds, but I don't think that means the club shouldn't be in charge of recruitment. It just means that the recruitment's been crap. | | | |
| Mawson to West Ham on 17:50 - Jun 29 with 1651 views | jasper_T |
| Mawson to West Ham on 17:25 - Jun 29 by ploppy |
Really? What's the manager interview process for? It's not rocket surgery.
So, you sign players the manager wants, and the manager leaves after a year (normally). Where does that leave you?
I'm not saying we haven't signed duds, but I don't think that means the club shouldn't be in charge of recruitment. It just means that the recruitment's been crap. |
We should sign players that fit the club ethos AND make sure the current manager wants to play them. It's not an either/or situation. You have to do both or it can easily end in flushing millions down the toilet for no on field return.
Roque Mesa's obviously not a bad footballer but he was never going to fit into Paul Clement's system as the holding midfielder (might have done a job for Carvalhal, mind, but by then the damage was done and he was off). Garry Monk didn't want a recently-converted winger as his new left back. Laudrup didn't know who Marvin Emnes was. | | | |
| Mawson to West Ham on 18:05 - Jun 29 with 1631 views | 34dfgdf54 |
| Mawson to West Ham on 14:42 - Jun 29 by E20Jack |
30 points from his last 34 league games disagrees. |
Unfair reflection.
First season we were miles safe, just won a cup, a hangover was inevitable. Second season, as I said earlier, small clubs like us, as described by yourself, was always going to struggle. Our heads were still above water when he left. | | | |
| Mawson to West Ham on 18:06 - Jun 29 with 1629 views | 34dfgdf54 |
| Mawson to West Ham on 17:50 - Jun 29 by jasper_T |
We should sign players that fit the club ethos AND make sure the current manager wants to play them. It's not an either/or situation. You have to do both or it can easily end in flushing millions down the toilet for no on field return.
Roque Mesa's obviously not a bad footballer but he was never going to fit into Paul Clement's system as the holding midfielder (might have done a job for Carvalhal, mind, but by then the damage was done and he was off). Garry Monk didn't want a recently-converted winger as his new left back. Laudrup didn't know who Marvin Emnes was. |
Or Ngog, or Ki. | | | |
| Mawson to West Ham on 18:23 - Jun 29 with 1597 views | ploppy |
| Mawson to West Ham on 17:50 - Jun 29 by jasper_T |
We should sign players that fit the club ethos AND make sure the current manager wants to play them. It's not an either/or situation. You have to do both or it can easily end in flushing millions down the toilet for no on field return.
Roque Mesa's obviously not a bad footballer but he was never going to fit into Paul Clement's system as the holding midfielder (might have done a job for Carvalhal, mind, but by then the damage was done and he was off). Garry Monk didn't want a recently-converted winger as his new left back. Laudrup didn't know who Marvin Emnes was. |
So you also disagree with Brynmill_Jack's assertion that "Managers not being able to buy and sell who they want is what's got us back in the championship."
Good. | | | |
| Mawson to West Ham on 22:00 - Jun 29 with 1521 views | E20Jack |
| Mawson to West Ham on 18:05 - Jun 29 by 34dfgdf54 |
Unfair reflection.
First season we were miles safe, just won a cup, a hangover was inevitable. Second season, as I said earlier, small clubs like us, as described by yourself, was always going to struggle. Our heads were still above water when he left. |
It’s not unfair, it is a fact showing the state of play and how dire we were for the best part of a season. It wasn’t our second season either, we had the best squad we have had in memory earning a fortune out of the club - yet looked to be heading meekly into the Chanpionship with a similar point and return to what we saw this season.
Had to go, thankfully there was a small amount of wiggle room when Monk came over to rescue things. Who then went on to record our best ever finish before also allowing the club to fall based on his own ego. | |
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| Mawson to West Ham on 07:09 - Jun 30 with 1428 views | 34dfgdf54 |
| Mawson to West Ham on 22:00 - Jun 29 by E20Jack |
It’s not unfair, it is a fact showing the state of play and how dire we were for the best part of a season. It wasn’t our second season either, we had the best squad we have had in memory earning a fortune out of the club - yet looked to be heading meekly into the Chanpionship with a similar point and return to what we saw this season.
Had to go, thankfully there was a small amount of wiggle room when Monk came over to rescue things. Who then went on to record our best ever finish before also allowing the club to fall based on his own ego. |
It was Laudrup’s second season.
Where was we in the table when he left?
Best squad we have had in memory, earning a fortune, compared to what? Not the squad Jenkins assembled, which was absolutely diabolical. [Post edited 30 Jun 2018 8:43]
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| Mawson to West Ham on 08:02 - Jun 30 with 1379 views | dameedna |
The Mawson to West Ham thing has to be a good move for him. However our priorties lie in reducing the wage bill courtesy of Bony and Ayew. Mawson I feel we could keep and believe it would be good for his career as he would be a starter and we can probably afford him along with Naughton and Olsson. I am a firm believer in keeping the defence together and getting shot of Bony and Ayew unless they agree to drop their wages. Mawson is a player to keep along with Bartley and VDH. If Potter can keep Mawson and most of defence together we could be a mean set up. |  | | |
| Mawson to West Ham on 08:17 - Jun 30 with 1362 views | E20Jack |
| Mawson to West Ham on 07:09 - Jun 30 by 34dfgdf54 |
It was Laudrup’s second season.
Where was we in the table when he left?
Best squad we have had in memory, earning a fortune, compared to what? Not the squad Jenkins assembled, which was absolutely diabolical. [Post edited 30 Jun 2018 8:43]
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I can’t remember what position we were. We had 30 points from his last 34 games though which is what matters. We had the best squad we have had, yet the performances were the worst we had seen at that level and the buck stopped with Laudrup.
Had to be shown the door and thankfully we successfully rode off the back of that decision for the next 18 months achieving our highest ever finish. | |
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| Mawson to West Ham on 08:25 - Jun 30 with 1354 views | Whiterockin |
| Mawson to West Ham on 08:17 - Jun 30 by E20Jack |
I can’t remember what position we were. We had 30 points from his last 34 games though which is what matters. We had the best squad we have had, yet the performances were the worst we had seen at that level and the buck stopped with Laudrup.
Had to be shown the door and thankfully we successfully rode off the back of that decision for the next 18 months achieving our highest ever finish. |
If Potter had not come in, would you have preferred Monk or Laudrup as the next manager. I like probably 99% of supporters would have Laudrup in an instance. |  | | |
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