| Happy Fathers Day: 15:57 - Jun 17 with 22683 views | Shaky |
How Trump Came to Enforce a Practice of Separating Migrant Families
By Julie Hirschfeld Davis and Michael D. Shear
NYT, June 16, 2018
WASHINGTON – Almost immediately after President Trump took office, his administration began weighing what for years had been regarded as the nuclear option in the effort to discourage immigrants from unlawfully entering the United States.
Children would be separated from their parents if the families had been apprehended entering the country illegally, John F. Kelly, then the homeland security secretary, said in March 2017, “in order to deter more movement along this terribly dangerous network.”
For more than a decade, even as illegal immigration levels fell overall, seasonal spikes in unauthorized border crossings had bedeviled American presidents in both political parties, prompting them to cast about for increasingly aggressive ways to discourage migrants from making the trek.
Yet for George W. Bush and Barack Obama, the idea of crying children torn from their parents’ arms was simply too inhumane – and too politically perilous – to embrace as policy, and Mr. Trump, though he had made an immigration crackdown one of the central issues of his campaign, succumbed to the same reality, publicly dropping the idea after Mr. Kelly’s comments touched off a swift backlash.
But advocates inside the administration, most prominently Stephen Miller, Mr. Trump’s senior policy adviser, never gave up on the idea. Last month, facing a sharp uptick in illegal border crossings, Mr. Trump ordered a new effort to criminally prosecute anyone who crossed the border unlawfully – with few exceptions for parents traveling with their minor children.
And now Mr. Trump faces the consequences. With thousands of children detained in makeshift shelters, his spokesmen this past week had to deny accusations that the administration was acting like Nazis. Even evangelical supporters like Franklin Graham said its policy was “disgraceful.”
Among those who have professed objections to the policy is the president himself, who despite his tough rhetoric on immigration and his clear directive to show no mercy in enforcing the law, has searched publicly for someone else to blame for dividing families. He has falsely claimed that Democrats are responsible for the practice. But the kind of pictures so feared by Mr. Trump’s predecessors could end up defining a major domestic policy issue of his term.
Inside the Trump administration, current and former officials say, there is considerable unease about the policy, which is regarded by some charged with carrying it out as unfeasible in practice and questionable morally. Kirstjen Nielsen, the current homeland security secretary, has clashed privately with Mr. Trump over the practice, sometimes inviting furious lectures from the president that have pushed her to the brink of resignation.
But Mr. Miller has expressed none of the president’s misgivings. “No nation can have the policy that whole classes of people are immune from immigration law or enforcement,” he said during an interview in his West Wing office this past week. “It was a simple decision by the administration to have a zero tolerance policy for illegal entry, period. The message is that no one is exempt from immigration law.”
The administration’s critics are not buying that explanation. “This is not a zero tolerance policy, this is a zero humanity policy, and we can’t let it go on,” said Senator Jeff Merkley, Democrat of Oregon.
“Ripping children out of their parents’ arms to inflict harm on the child to influence the parents,” he added, “is unacceptable.”
Beyond those moral objections, Jeh C. Johnson, who as secretary of homeland security was the point man for the Obama administration’s own struggles with illegal immigration, argued that deterrence, in and of itself, is neither practical nor a long-term solution to the problem.
“I’ve seen this movie before, and I feel like what we are doing now, with the zero tolerance policy and separating parents and children for the purpose of deterrence, is banging our heads against the wall,” he said. “Whether it’s family detention, messaging about dangers of the journey, or messaging about separating families and zero tolerance, it’s always going to have at best a short-term reaction.”
And that view was based on hard experience.
When Central American migrants, including many unaccompanied children, began surging across the border in early 2014, Mr. Obama, the antithesis of his impulsive successor, had his own characteristic reaction: He formed a multiagency team at the White House to figure out what should be done.
“This was the bane of my existence for three years,” Mr. Johnson said. “No matter what you did, somebody was going to be very angry at you.”
The officials met in the office of Denis R. McDonough, the White House chief of staff, and convened a series of meetings in the Situation Room to go through their options. Migrants were increasingly exploiting existing immigration laws and court rulings, and using children as a way to get adults into the country, on the theory that families were being treated differently from single people.
“The agencies were surfacing every possible idea,” Cecilia Muñoz, Mr. Obama’s top domestic policy adviser, recalled, including whether to separate parents from their children. “I do remember looking at each other like, ‘We’re not going to do this, are we?’ We spent five minutes thinking it through and concluded that it was a bad idea. The morality of it was clear – that’s not who we are.”
They did, however, decide to vastly expand the detention of immigrant families, opening new facilities along the border where women and young children were held for long periods while they awaited a chance to have their cases processed.
Mr. Johnson wrote an open letter to appear in Spanish-language news outlets warning parents that their children would be deported if they entered the United States illegally. He traveled to Guatemala to deliver the message in person.
Opening a large family immigration detention facility in Dilley, Tex., he held a news conference to showcase what he called an “effective deterrent.”
The steps led to just the kind of brutal images that Mr. Obama’s advisers feared: hundreds of young children, many dirty and some in tears, who were being held with their families in makeshift detention facilities.
Immigrant advocacy groups denounced the policy, berating senior administration officials – some of whom were reduced to rueful apologies for a policy they said they could not justify – and telling Mr. Obama to his face during a meeting at the White House in late 2014 that he was turning his back on the most vulnerable people seeking refuge in the United States.
“I was pissed, and still am,” said Ben Johnson, the executive director of the American Immigration Lawyers Association. “I thought that he had a shocking disregard for due process.”
Before long, the Obama administration would face legal challenges, and be forced to stop detaining families indefinitely. A federal judge in Washington ordered the administration in 2015 to stop detaining asylum-seeking Central American mothers and children in order to deter others from their region from coming into the United States.
Under a 1997 consent decree known as the Flores settlement, unaccompanied children could be held in immigration detention for only a short period of time; in 2016, a federal judge ruled that the settlement applied to families as well, effectively requiring that they be released within 20 days. Many were released – some with GPS ankle bracelets to track their movements – and asked to return for a court date sometime in the future.
It was Mr. Bush, who had firsthand experience with the border as governor of Texas and ran for president as a “compassionate conservative,” who initiated the “zero tolerance” approach for illegal immigration on which Mr. Trump’s policy is modeled.
In 2005, he launched Operation Streamline, a program along a stretch of the border in Texas that referred all unlawful entrants for criminal prosecution, imprisoning them and expediting assembly-line-style trials geared toward quickly deporting them. The initiative yielded results and was soon expanded to more border sectors. Back then, however, exceptions were generally made for adults who were traveling with minor children, as well as juveniles and people who were ill.
Mr. Obama’s administration employed the program at the height of the migration crisis as well, although it generally did not treat first-time border crossers as priorities for prosecution, and it detained families together in Immigration and Customs Enforcement custody – administrative, rather than criminal, detention.
Discussions began almost immediately after Mr. Trump took office about vastly expanding Operation Streamline, with almost none of those limitations. Even after Mr. Kelly stopped talking publicly about family separation, the Department of Homeland Security quietly tested the approach last summer in certain areas in Texas.
Privately, Mr. Miller argued that bringing back “zero tolerance” would be a potent tool in a severely limited arsenal of strategies for stopping migrants from flooding across the border.
The idea was to end a practice referred to by its detractors as “catch and release,” in which illegal immigrants apprehended at the border are released into the interior of the United States to await the processing of their cases. Mr. Miller argued that the policy provided a perverse incentive for migrants, essentially ensuring that if they could make it to the United States border and claim a “credible fear” of returning home, they would be given a chance to stay under asylum laws, at least temporarily.
A lengthy backlog of asylum claims made it likely that it would be years before they would have to appear before a judge to back up that plea – and many never returned to do so.
The situation was even more complicated when children were involved. A 2008 law meant to combat the trafficking of minors places strict requirements on how unaccompanied migrant children from Central America are to be treated.
Minors from Mexico or Canada – countries contiguous with the United States – can be quickly sent back to their home countries unless it is deemed dangerous to do so. But those from other nations cannot be quickly returned; they must be transferred within 72 hours to the Office of Refugee Resettlement at the Department of Health and Human Services, and placed in the least restrictive setting possible. And the Flores ruling meant that children and families could not be held for more than 20 days.
In October, after Mr. Trump ended Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals, the Obama-era program that gave legal status to undocumented immigrants raised in the United States, Mr. Miller insisted that any legislative package to codify those protections contain changes to close what he called the loopholes encouraging illegal immigrants to come.
And in April, after the border numbers reached their zenith, Mr. Miller was instrumental in Mr. Trump’s decision to ratchet up the zero tolerance policy.
“A big name of the game is deterrence,” Mr. Kelly, now the chief of staff, told NPR in May. “The children will be taken care of – put into foster care or whatever – but the big point is they elected to come illegally into the United States, and this is a technique that no one hopes will be used extensively or for very long.”
Technically, there is no Trump administration policy stating that illegal border crossers must be separated from their children. But the “zero tolerance policy” results in unlawful immigrants being taken into federal criminal custody, at which point their children are considered unaccompanied alien minors and taken away.
Unlike Mr. Obama’s administration, Mr. Trump’s is treating all people who have crossed the border without authorization as subject to criminal prosecution, even if they tell the officer apprehending them that they are seeking asylum based on fear of returning to their home country, and whether or not they have their children in tow.
“Having children does not give you immunity from arrest and prosecution,” Attorney General Jeff Sessions said in a speech on Thursday in Fort Wayne, Ind.
“I would cite you to the Apostle Paul and his clear and wise command in Romans 13 to obey the laws of the government,” said Mr. Sessions, quoting Bible verse as he took exception to evangelical leaders who have called the practice abhorrent. “Because God has ordained them for the purpose of order.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/16/us/politics/family-separation-trump.html [Post edited 17 Jun 2018 15:57]
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| Happy Fathers Day: on 20:58 - Jun 28 with 1652 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Happy Fathers Day: on 20:53 - Jun 28 by Lohengrin |
I’m surprised it isn’t 100%. No need for it when illegals could simply be escorted back to the border and ushered across. |
People claiming asylum are not ‘illegals’ however much they are described as such. They are acting within international law.
Many are in that position. |  | | |
| Happy Fathers Day: on 21:06 - Jun 28 with 1635 views | Lohengrin |
| Happy Fathers Day: on 20:58 - Jun 28 by londonlisa2001 |
People claiming asylum are not ‘illegals’ however much they are described as such. They are acting within international law.
Many are in that position. |
”Under the 1951 Geneva Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees, asylum seekers must show that they have a well-founded fear of persecution due to their race, religion, nationality, political opinion or membership of a particular social group, and are unable or unwilling to seek protection from the authorities in their own country.”
I wonder how many are actually in that position? The countries they are leaving have entry criteria is it really that exceptional for the US to have their own and uphold them? |  |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Happy Fathers Day: on 23:35 - Jun 28 with 1600 views | Tummer_from_Texas |
| Happy Fathers Day: on 20:47 - Jun 28 by Humpty |
Mike,
Polls indicate two thirds of Americans disagree with Trump's policy of separating children from their parents.
Are you seriously suggesting 66% of Americans are of the extreme left? |
Not at all, and not at all surprised by those numbers, particularly if the question was phrased like I would suppose it was.
Most of the MSM here reports on this situation like these kids are being put in cages and mistreated, and without the context that children get separated from parents anytime the parent is arrested or detained. People are thus influenced by the messages they constantly hear. [Post edited 28 Jun 2018 23:42]
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| Happy Fathers Day: on 00:16 - Jun 29 with 1577 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Happy Fathers Day: on 23:35 - Jun 28 by Tummer_from_Texas |
Not at all, and not at all surprised by those numbers, particularly if the question was phrased like I would suppose it was.
Most of the MSM here reports on this situation like these kids are being put in cages and mistreated, and without the context that children get separated from parents anytime the parent is arrested or detained. People are thus influenced by the messages they constantly hear. [Post edited 28 Jun 2018 23:42]
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Could you list other misdemeanours that involve removal of children from both parents or family members while the offence is being processed please. Speeding perhaps? Driving without a seatbelt? Do these offences involve children being put in cages for weeks?
I’m sure, by the way, you’re aware that illegal entry is a misdemeanour.
Perhaps you’re influenced by the misleading messages you hear? In this case from Kirstjen Nielsen. | | | |
| Happy Fathers Day: on 01:01 - Jun 29 with 1557 views | E20Jack |
Late to the party on this one, I tend to stay away from Shakys copy and paste posts he does every week that largely get ignored.
However this is something that is an unfortunate by product of the situation. Parents are giving their children the morning after pill as they know getting raped is a probably part of the journey, many of the families are already in the US and are sending their children on the top of a train across 3 states. What some of these parents put their children through is tantamount to child abuse, in fact it would be seen as that if done here.
Illegal immigrants and the whole package that comes with it, the rape, the trafficking, the cartels, the mules, the drugs, the murder, the extortion. 80% of women that make the journey are raped according to amnesty international.
There is a toxic valve there that needs to be shut off. I am at a loss as to how anyone can deny that. |  |
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| Happy Fathers Day: on 01:26 - Jun 29 with 1547 views | Highjack |
| Happy Fathers Day: on 00:16 - Jun 29 by londonlisa2001 |
Could you list other misdemeanours that involve removal of children from both parents or family members while the offence is being processed please. Speeding perhaps? Driving without a seatbelt? Do these offences involve children being put in cages for weeks?
I’m sure, by the way, you’re aware that illegal entry is a misdemeanour.
Perhaps you’re influenced by the misleading messages you hear? In this case from Kirstjen Nielsen. |
i Imagine in most cases with those crimes the child would be returned to a relative or responsible guardian. In this instance when all relatives and guardians are thousands of miles away in different countries what are they supposed to do?
I agree they should be kept comfortable somewhere and not in cages but the only other option is to lock them up in adult detention centres with their family members but that isn’t particularly nice for them either. |  |
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| Happy Fathers Day: on 03:00 - Jun 29 with 1538 views | Tummer_from_Texas |
So Lisa, you'd rather see those kids kept with their parents, in an adult jail, than safe somewhere else for maybe 2 months, probably less?
Do you have any clue how ridiculous that is?
I still can't believe this is even being argued about. [Post edited 29 Jun 2018 3:01]
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| Happy Fathers Day: on 09:43 - Jun 29 with 1487 views | Humpty |
| Happy Fathers Day: on 23:35 - Jun 28 by Tummer_from_Texas |
Not at all, and not at all surprised by those numbers, particularly if the question was phrased like I would suppose it was.
Most of the MSM here reports on this situation like these kids are being put in cages and mistreated, and without the context that children get separated from parents anytime the parent is arrested or detained. People are thus influenced by the messages they constantly hear. [Post edited 28 Jun 2018 23:42]
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This is how the question was phrased.
Q15. As you may know, when some families trying to enter the U.S. illegally at the southern border have been caught
and detained, U.S. officials have separated parents from their children. Do you think this separation of parents and
children is acceptable, or unacceptable, or haven’t you heard enough about it to say?
Acceptable 17 36 5 16
Unacceptable 67 39 90 66
Haven't heard enough 12 19 3 13
Don't know/No answer 4 5 1 4
Seems pretty clear and fair to me.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/two-thirds-of-americans-say-separating-children-par |  | | |
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| Happy Fathers Day: on 09:54 - Jun 29 with 1472 views | Shaky |
This is potentially very interesting - justice Kennedy may in effect be recusing himself:
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| Happy Fathers Day: on 12:06 - Jun 29 with 1443 views | Shaky |
Trump rushing to complete Putin's agenda, before Bob Mueller puts his sorry fcuking ass in jail:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Axios
Scoop: Trump's private threat to upend global trade
By Jonathan Swan
Axios, 35 mins ago
President Trump has repeatedly told top White House officials he wants to withdraw the United States from the World Trade Organization, a move that would throw global trade into wild disarray, people involved in the talks tell Axios.
What we're hearing: “He’s [threatened to withdraw] 100 times. It would totally [screw] us as a country,” said a source who’s discussed the subject with Trump. The source added that Trump has frequently told advisers, "We always get fcuked by them [the WTO]. I don’t know why we’re in it. The WTO is designed by the rest of the world to screw the United States."
Flashback: During the campaign, Trump told NBC's Chuck Todd on "Meet the Press," in July 2016: "World Trade Organization is a disaster."
Some aides have tried to explain to Trump that in their view, the U.S. does well at the WTO, given the U.S. has an army of trade lawyers and created the system:
* The “Economic Report of the President” for 2018, which bears Trump’s signature on Page 11, states: “[T]he United States has won 85.7 percent of the cases it has initiated before the WTO since 1995, compared with a global average of 84.4 percent. In contrast, China’s success rate is just 66.7 percent.”
But Trump is unmoved by those arguments, according to sources with direct knowledge:
* Trump’s economic advisers do push back in the moment when he raises the idea of withdrawal.
* But they’ve never put in place a policy process to take the idea seriously, according to four sources with direct knowledge of his private comments.
* That dismissive attitude in the face of Trump’s insistence could ultimately prove to be a mistake – as history has shown with other policy ideas of which aides do not approve.
Between the lines: Even if his advisers put a policy process in place and try to make sure he’s well-informed on what it would mean to try to withdraw from the WTO – there is no guarantee that Trump won’t do it. History shows he doesn't care about the process.
* Remember when Trump upended his globalist trade advisers’ carefully constructed policy process and simply announced he’d be imposing massive tariffs on steel and aluminum imports? It’s not unimaginable that the same could eventually happen with his desire to try to withdraw from the WTO.
Why this matters: A U.S. withdrawal from the WTO would send global markets into a spiral and cast trillions of dollars of trade into doubt.
* It would also blow up an institution that for 70-plus years has been a pillar of global economic and political stability.
* The consequences of a U.S. withdrawal are so profound that, like Trump’s senior advisers, the trade community hasn’t seriously entertained the possibility that Trump would try to withdraw.
* A top trade lawyer in Washington said: “We think he’s nuts, but not that nuts."
The safety valve: Should Trump defy his advisers and announce a withdrawal at some point in the future, he would run into significant legal hurdles.
* As head of state, Trump under international law could make the notification at the WTO. But the U.S. law implementing the WTO agreements states quite plainly that withdrawal from the WTO requires an act of Congress.
What’s next? Probably nothing. This move seems too extreme, even for Trump.
* Sources with knowledge of the situation say the Trump administration will continue to call attention to various ways in which the U.S. encounters what some Trump advisers perceive is unfair and unbalanced treatment within framework of the WTO.
* The administration will likely continue to push the envelope on all its trade policies, fully expecting its actions will be challenged within the WTO.
But if Trump continues to feel as if he’s being unfairly stymied by the international body, you’d be a fool to confidently declare that he won’t follow through on his desires at some point.
https://www.axios.com/ | |
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| Happy Fathers Day: on 12:12 - Jun 29 with 1438 views | Shaky |
. . a pre-recorded comment from industry:
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| Happy Fathers Day: on 14:18 - Jun 29 with 1410 views | Lohengrin |
| Happy Fathers Day: on 12:12 - Jun 29 by Shaky |
. . a pre-recorded comment from industry:
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That is 100% fake.
You need to implement some sort of quality control mechanism to regulate this tidal wave of copied codswallop you ladle out. | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Happy Fathers Day: on 14:24 - Jun 29 with 1407 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Happy Fathers Day: on 03:00 - Jun 29 by Tummer_from_Texas |
So Lisa, you'd rather see those kids kept with their parents, in an adult jail, than safe somewhere else for maybe 2 months, probably less?
Do you have any clue how ridiculous that is?
I still can't believe this is even being argued about. [Post edited 29 Jun 2018 3:01]
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Nope.
You’ll have to show me where I said anything of the sort.
You didn’t answer the question by the way. You’ve said twice on this thread that others who are offenders have the same thing happen to them.
Could you give an example of a misdemeanour that results in children being removed from their families and put in a cage for weeks.
Thanks. | | | |
| Happy Fathers Day: on 14:26 - Jun 29 with 1404 views | E20Jack |
| Happy Fathers Day: on 14:18 - Jun 29 by Lohengrin |
That is 100% fake.
You need to implement some sort of quality control mechanism to regulate this tidal wave of copied codswallop you ladle out. |
Quality or control are words alien to Shaky and his google copy and paste splurges. | |
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| Happy Fathers Day: on 14:35 - Jun 29 with 1397 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Happy Fathers Day: on 01:26 - Jun 29 by Highjack |
i Imagine in most cases with those crimes the child would be returned to a relative or responsible guardian. In this instance when all relatives and guardians are thousands of miles away in different countries what are they supposed to do?
I agree they should be kept comfortable somewhere and not in cages but the only other option is to lock them up in adult detention centres with their family members but that isn’t particularly nice for them either. |
Just do what they’ve done until the US forgot it was supposed to be a civilised country.
This isn’t a new issue. It’s political posturing to get support for his wall (look what happens if I don’t get my way on this). The fact that innocent children are being punished in the most awful ways to make a political point doesn’t bother Trump in the slightest. They’re not the same as his children or the children of the sort of people he knows after all. They’re less than that. And his supporters think they’re less as well. Look at Tummer on here and his response. Kids? Whatever. Hysterical leftists, libtards, blah blah. Lock ‘em up. | | | |
| Happy Fathers Day: on 14:39 - Jun 29 with 1395 views | Lohengrin |
| Happy Fathers Day: on 14:26 - Jun 29 by E20Jack |
Quality or control are words alien to Shaky and his google copy and paste splurges. |
Is he even real? He barely manages more than a sentence of his own. I’m beginning to think he’s one of these bot things that infest the net. | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Happy Fathers Day: on 14:53 - Jun 29 with 1386 views | E20Jack |
Real? Almost certainly not.
But I doubt he is a bot either, although his reliance on google, copy and paste and changing his view to mirror others while still trying to come across as he is the creator of that view does somewhat suggest a pre programmed behaviour, or a deep rooted personality disorder. | |
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| Happy Fathers Day: on 14:56 - Jun 29 with 1383 views | Lohengrin |
| Happy Fathers Day: on 14:53 - Jun 29 by E20Jack |
Real? Almost certainly not.
But I doubt he is a bot either, although his reliance on google, copy and paste and changing his view to mirror others while still trying to come across as he is the creator of that view does somewhat suggest a pre programmed behaviour, or a deep rooted personality disorder. |
Are you suggesting he’s sat there at his keyboard like Norman Bates wearing one of his mother’s frocks? | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Happy Fathers Day: on 15:40 - Jun 29 with 1364 views | Tummer_from_Texas |
| Happy Fathers Day: on 14:24 - Jun 29 by londonlisa2001 |
Nope.
You’ll have to show me where I said anything of the sort.
You didn’t answer the question by the way. You’ve said twice on this thread that others who are offenders have the same thing happen to them.
Could you give an example of a misdemeanour that results in children being removed from their families and put in a cage for weeks.
Thanks. |
It's a pointless question. If you are detained and put in jail, you will be separated from your children, whether it is a felony or a misdemeanor. The only other option is to put your kids in jail with you, which would be titanically stupid and irresponsible on the authorities' part. So, in effect, that IS exactly what you are saying.
And "put in a cage for weeks" is completely false. Even the extremely Left-leaning, Trump-hating NPR has debunked that:
Customs and Border Protection facilities
If you've seen photos of children in what look like chain-link cages – whether unaccompanied minors in 2014 or separated children in 2018 – they are probably photos from a Customs and Border Protection facility.
Children usually are held here initially, but it is illegal to keep them for more than three days – these holding cells are not meant for long-term detention.
Has Shaky been doing your fact checking? | |
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| Happy Fathers Day: on 15:51 - Jun 29 with 1351 views | Tummer_from_Texas |
| Happy Fathers Day: on 14:35 - Jun 29 by londonlisa2001 |
Just do what they’ve done until the US forgot it was supposed to be a civilised country.
This isn’t a new issue. It’s political posturing to get support for his wall (look what happens if I don’t get my way on this). The fact that innocent children are being punished in the most awful ways to make a political point doesn’t bother Trump in the slightest. They’re not the same as his children or the children of the sort of people he knows after all. They’re less than that. And his supporters think they’re less as well. Look at Tummer on here and his response. Kids? Whatever. Hysterical leftists, libtards, blah blah. Lock ‘em up. |
No, Lisa, I don't think illegal immigrants' children are lessers at all. In fact they are the victims of a tragic situation, and I can sympathize with their parents for breaking the law. But they DID break the law, as opposed to immigrating legally. I've made that clear, particularly in one of my replies on page 6:
If you are an illegal immigrant, you are probably a better person than the one (American citizen) I described above. You are in a desperate, usually heartbreaking situation, so you broke the law. You get your kid back in maybe 2 months, usually less.
Your problem, like much of the Left these days, is that your feelings, emotions, and hate have completely destroyed your ability to process logic. Hence, you think I'm evil, even though I have stated the exact opposite of what you accuse me of. But again, no, the children of illegal immigrants are not worth less than other children. It's sad that your hate keeps you from understanding me on this. [Post edited 29 Jun 2018 15:59]
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| Happy Fathers Day: on 15:59 - Jun 29 with 1338 views | Shaky |
Whether or not the quote is attributable, the sentiments are 100% accurate.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
To Trump, Harley’s tariff decision is a personal – and unexpected – betrayal
Trump’s Harley-Davidson controversy, explained
by David J. Lynch and Philip Rucker
Washington Post, June 26
President Trump lashed out at Harley-Davidson on Tuesday over the company’s decision to move some production outside the United States, calling it “the beginning of the end” for the iconic motorcycle maker and threatening to respond with punishing taxes.
In a fusillade of tweets beginning shortly after 7 a.m., the president accused the company of using European tariffs as an excuse for manufacturing changes it already had planned; erroneously said Harley had shifted operations from a Kansas City, Mo., plant to Thailand; and demanded that its famous bikes “never be built in another country-never!”
White House aides say the president feels betrayed by the American manufacturer’s decision to move some production offshore to avoid becoming embroiled in Trump’s trade war with Europe.
His aggrieved tweetstorm – echoed in subsequent comments at the White House – made it clear that he took Harley’s action personally. But the outburst also reflected a president grappling with the effect of policies he expected to produce a more favorable outcome, say trade experts.
Trump’s tariffs on steel and aluminum will cost Harley up to $20 million this year, with European Union retaliation adding perhaps an additional $45 million, the company said.
Trump’s sudden feud with Harley – an American manufacturer he feted at the White House just last year – pitted a company driven by financial calculation against a businessman president who takes a deeply idiosyncratic and emotional view of global commerce.
Full story: https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/to-trump-harleys-tariff-decision | |
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| Happy Fathers Day: on 16:02 - Jun 29 with 1332 views | Shaky |
| Happy Fathers Day: on 14:39 - Jun 29 by Lohengrin |
Is he even real? He barely manages more than a sentence of his own. I’m beginning to think he’s one of these bot things that infest the net. |
Poor Lechgrin, feeling oh so triggered.
Nice then that you and Dim have something in common, and have formed a little mutual support group.  | |
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| Happy Fathers Day: on 16:03 - Jun 29 with 1328 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Happy Fathers Day: on 15:40 - Jun 29 by Tummer_from_Texas |
It's a pointless question. If you are detained and put in jail, you will be separated from your children, whether it is a felony or a misdemeanor. The only other option is to put your kids in jail with you, which would be titanically stupid and irresponsible on the authorities' part. So, in effect, that IS exactly what you are saying.
And "put in a cage for weeks" is completely false. Even the extremely Left-leaning, Trump-hating NPR has debunked that:
Customs and Border Protection facilities
If you've seen photos of children in what look like chain-link cages – whether unaccompanied minors in 2014 or separated children in 2018 – they are probably photos from a Customs and Border Protection facility.
Children usually are held here initially, but it is illegal to keep them for more than three days – these holding cells are not meant for long-term detention.
Has Shaky been doing your fact checking? |
You are now trying to argue whether a cage is the right word for these detention centres? That some children have now been in for more than two months? Cage, cell, prison, concentration camp. You choose the phrase that makes you feel less like a monster for supporting it.
Cos you know, libtards, leftists, fake news, blah blah. | | | |
| Happy Fathers Day: on 16:05 - Jun 29 with 1324 views | Lohengrin |
| Happy Fathers Day: on 16:02 - Jun 29 by Shaky |
Poor Lechgrin, feeling oh so triggered.
Nice then that you and Dim have something in common, and have formed a little mutual support group. |
Amused. I think that’s the word you are looking for.
What other antics do you get up to? Do you do a funny little dance? Do a funny little dance for me. | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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