| How much money? 12:54 - Aug 26 with 6979 views | Gowerjack |
How much money has the club accrued since relegation?
I'm thinking about this seasons parachute income.
Income from transfers out.
Savings on wages.
Genuine question.
Anyone got a breakdown?
Thanks |  |
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| How much money? on 13:02 - Aug 26 with 3586 views | hobo |
The trust will know the exact amount |  | | |
| How much money? on 13:03 - Aug 26 with 3578 views | Jango |
Regardless of what anyone says on here, nobody on this site has the faintest idea of what fees we’ve received/paid out and what wages and bonuses we were paying the players who have gone and what were paying those who have come in.
Those involved with the trust may know but they are not gonna give out that sort of information on here. [Post edited 26 Aug 2018 13:05]
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| How much money? on 13:07 - Aug 26 with 3554 views | Whiterockin |
As a matter of interest does anyone know when the parachute payment is made. Is it made in one payment at the start or end of the season or paid in installments. This would have a major impact on our finances. |  | | |
| How much money? on 13:11 - Aug 26 with 3537 views | hobo |
| How much money? on 13:07 - Aug 26 by Whiterockin |
As a matter of interest does anyone know when the parachute payment is made. Is it made in one payment at the start or end of the season or paid in installments. This would have a major impact on our finances. |
Again, the trust will know for sure. | | | |
| How much money? on 13:15 - Aug 26 with 3506 views | Shaky |
Based on the best available reports, since the end of last season the club has sold players that will bring in a total of £45 million plus another £5m in add-ons related to Mawson if he is ok.
They have then spent probably around £6 million on new players.
The problem is that the starting point was short term net debt of probably somewhere in the region of £80-85 million. Debt that would have been due for repayment in the current financial year ending next July.
And on that basis the club is by no means out of the shit yet, with luxury players like Bony still on the staff. [Post edited 26 Aug 2018 13:19]
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| How much money? on 14:07 - Aug 26 with 3364 views | lifelong |
| How much money? on 13:15 - Aug 26 by Shaky |
Based on the best available reports, since the end of last season the club has sold players that will bring in a total of £45 million plus another £5m in add-ons related to Mawson if he is ok.
They have then spent probably around £6 million on new players.
The problem is that the starting point was short term net debt of probably somewhere in the region of £80-85 million. Debt that would have been due for repayment in the current financial year ending next July.
And on that basis the club is by no means out of the shit yet, with luxury players like Bony still on the staff. [Post edited 26 Aug 2018 13:19]
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So, unless we get wealthy investors who prepared to plough money into the club, financially the club is fecked? |  | | |
| How much money? on 14:16 - Aug 26 with 3338 views | TheResurrection |
Not another facking borefest thread.
Narcissistic kunt. |  |
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| How much money? on 14:23 - Aug 26 with 3308 views | TheResurrection |
| How much money? on 14:07 - Aug 26 by lifelong |
So, unless we get wealthy investors who prepared to plough money into the club, financially the club is fecked? |
Not at all, the club is bang on track. The net debt Shakey Fraud is talking about is commitments and the Club has and is still addressing that. He just likes to scaremonger when all that's happening is the careful act that any prudent club should undertake when their income is about to halve. | |
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| How much money? on 14:24 - Aug 26 with 3310 views | Shaky |
| How much money? on 14:07 - Aug 26 by lifelong |
So, unless we get wealthy investors who prepared to plough money into the club, financially the club is fecked? |
Not necessarily.
In reality the debt is probably not all repayable within the current financial year leaving some wiggle room and scope for player trading.
I think if Bony can be offloaded by the end of the January window the club should produce positive cash-flow this year before player sales.
And with a bit of luck in the transfer market on new Potter acquisitions the situation could improve dramatically next season.
But for now the club is on life support financially, and from what I can tell there is a snowball's chance of the current owners chipping anything in for the foreseeable future. | |
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| How much money? on 14:25 - Aug 26 with 3304 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| How much money? on 13:15 - Aug 26 by Shaky |
Based on the best available reports, since the end of last season the club has sold players that will bring in a total of £45 million plus another £5m in add-ons related to Mawson if he is ok.
They have then spent probably around £6 million on new players.
The problem is that the starting point was short term net debt of probably somewhere in the region of £80-85 million. Debt that would have been due for repayment in the current financial year ending next July.
And on that basis the club is by no means out of the shit yet, with luxury players like Bony still on the staff. [Post edited 26 Aug 2018 13:19]
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What about the 2017/18 cash from Sky/BT?
When and how was that paid? | | | |
| How much money? on 14:27 - Aug 26 with 3294 views | Shaky |
| How much money? on 14:25 - Aug 26 by A_Fans_Dad |
What about the 2017/18 cash from Sky/BT?
When and how was that paid? |
Banked and spent in full. And then some, if the consistent track record in the Prem is anything to go by.. | |
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| How much money? on 15:58 - Aug 26 with 3143 views | Whiterockin |
| How much money? on 13:11 - Aug 26 by hobo |
Again, the trust will know for sure. |
Hopefully this is true.
I was only asking if anyone knows the time structure for parachute payments. Because so many on here are automatically surmising that the club has already received £50M from this source. I can't believe that when you get relegated you get the cash immediately on relegation or as your Championship season starts. If we have not received any payment yet, this seriously impacts on our cash flow and explains some of the financial decisions being made. Not sticking up for the board (I detest them as much as any other supporter) I am just looking for an explanation as to why some of the ludicrous decisions are being made on player movements.
Hopefully Phil or any trust board member can confirm when parachute payments are paid. [Post edited 26 Aug 2018 16:10]
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| How much money? on 16:18 - Aug 26 with 3086 views | KrisP |
"Money saved on wages" is hardly "money accrued" is it? | | | |
| How much money? on 16:49 - Aug 26 with 3018 views | TheResurrection |
| How much money? on 15:58 - Aug 26 by Whiterockin |
Hopefully this is true.
I was only asking if anyone knows the time structure for parachute payments. Because so many on here are automatically surmising that the club has already received £50M from this source. I can't believe that when you get relegated you get the cash immediately on relegation or as your Championship season starts. If we have not received any payment yet, this seriously impacts on our cash flow and explains some of the financial decisions being made. Not sticking up for the board (I detest them as much as any other supporter) I am just looking for an explanation as to why some of the ludicrous decisions are being made on player movements.
Hopefully Phil or any trust board member can confirm when parachute payments are paid. [Post edited 26 Aug 2018 16:10]
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It's like the EPL money, it gets paid in instalments. We would've had the last one May, June time and one is due next month from memory. | |
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| How much money? on 16:54 - Aug 26 with 2992 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| How much money? on 15:58 - Aug 26 by Whiterockin |
Hopefully this is true.
I was only asking if anyone knows the time structure for parachute payments. Because so many on here are automatically surmising that the club has already received £50M from this source. I can't believe that when you get relegated you get the cash immediately on relegation or as your Championship season starts. If we have not received any payment yet, this seriously impacts on our cash flow and explains some of the financial decisions being made. Not sticking up for the board (I detest them as much as any other supporter) I am just looking for an explanation as to why some of the ludicrous decisions are being made on player movements.
Hopefully Phil or any trust board member can confirm when parachute payments are paid. [Post edited 26 Aug 2018 16:10]
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"I can't believe that when you get relegated you get the cash immediately on relegation or as your Championship season starts. If we have not received any payment yet, this seriously impacts on our cash flow"
Which is why asked about last seasons payments, the last of which has to come after the end of the season as it includes the league position payment. | | | |
| How much money? on 19:06 - Aug 26 with 2828 views | bluey_the_blue |
| How much money? on 13:15 - Aug 26 by Shaky |
Based on the best available reports, since the end of last season the club has sold players that will bring in a total of £45 million plus another £5m in add-ons related to Mawson if he is ok.
They have then spent probably around £6 million on new players.
The problem is that the starting point was short term net debt of probably somewhere in the region of £80-85 million. Debt that would have been due for repayment in the current financial year ending next July.
And on that basis the club is by no means out of the shit yet, with luxury players like Bony still on the staff. [Post edited 26 Aug 2018 13:19]
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You say those transfers would bring in £45m - are you assuming all transfer money is paid up front or have you accounted for staggered payments? | | | |
| How much money? on 19:19 - Aug 26 with 2800 views | jasper_T |
| How much money? on 19:06 - Aug 26 by bluey_the_blue |
You say those transfers would bring in £45m - are you assuming all transfer money is paid up front or have you accounted for staggered payments? |
People tend to assume it's all up front but clubs like West Ham love to pay over 4 or 5 years.
We can sell those debts to Santander like we did with Gylfi, Ayew etc. but obviously the bank takes a cut in those situations. | | | |
| How much money? on 19:23 - Aug 26 with 2787 views | Chief |
| How much money? on 13:15 - Aug 26 by Shaky |
Based on the best available reports, since the end of last season the club has sold players that will bring in a total of £45 million plus another £5m in add-ons related to Mawson if he is ok.
They have then spent probably around £6 million on new players.
The problem is that the starting point was short term net debt of probably somewhere in the region of £80-85 million. Debt that would have been due for repayment in the current financial year ending next July.
And on that basis the club is by no means out of the shit yet, with luxury players like Bony still on the staff. [Post edited 26 Aug 2018 13:19]
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The third paragraph - about is being in all that debt, who are we actually in debt to? Forgive my ignorance here. |  |
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| How much money? on 19:54 - Aug 26 with 2700 views | Flashberryjack |
| How much money? on 13:11 - Aug 26 by hobo |
Again, the trust will know for sure. |
I'm a member of the trust, but if they told me it was Monday tomorrow, I'd check the calendar before making any plans. |  |
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| How much money? on 20:05 - Aug 26 with 2648 views | majorraglan |
To be honest, I am not sure if anyone outside the club and the Trust will have the full picture.
I would imagine some of the previous purchases may have been completed on an instalment basis, so over the next few years the club would need to settle the outstanding balance on previous transfers. I am pretty sure that if the club defaulted on these payments, the parachute payments are diverted to pay the club’s who are owed the money, it’s the same with player wages. I believe paying other clubs is designed to ensure the existence of other clubs isn’t put at risk.
In terms of sales, it is possible to sell a debt, so for example if Siggy was sold for £40m with payment due over 3years. For example Swansea could sell the debt to a financial company and get a reduced payment upfront, say £32m while the bank will receive the £40m over the original 3years.
There are likely to be monies owing to other clubs, but I would imagine money due to the Swans from Gylfi, AW etc has been received. Agents will also have taken a chunk of money from the club, so it is difficult to know exactly what’s going on. | | | |
| How much money? on 20:44 - Aug 26 with 2536 views | Shaky |
| How much money? on 19:06 - Aug 26 by bluey_the_blue |
You say those transfers would bring in £45m - are you assuming all transfer money is paid up front or have you accounted for staggered payments? |
Neither.
There is no way to know precisely how the payments are staged, but it is not particularly important either.
Over the years the club has bought and sold a large number of players with different staged payments. What I am assuming is that the receipts and outgoings can be roughly matched against each other over the medium term, with cash-flow peaks and troughs smoothed out by the bank overdraft. | |
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| How much money? on 20:47 - Aug 26 with 2514 views | Shaky |
| How much money? on 19:23 - Aug 26 by Chief |
The third paragraph - about is being in all that debt, who are we actually in debt to? Forgive my ignorance here. |
That will vary dramatically over the course of the season, but currently it is likely to be primarily to the bank assuming the parachute payment has not yet been received. | |
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| How much money? on 20:58 - Aug 26 with 2481 views | Chief |
| How much money? on 20:47 - Aug 26 by Shaky |
That will vary dramatically over the course of the season, but currently it is likely to be primarily to the bank assuming the parachute payment has not yet been received. |
So i assume we left the premier league roughly neutral in money terms - the transfers in roughly equalled transfers out and sky / sponsorship any other cash we were getting in covered wages and everything else?
Am I roughly correct there give or take a bit either way? | |
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| How much money? on 21:24 - Aug 26 with 2399 views | Shaky |
| How much money? on 20:58 - Aug 26 by Chief |
So i assume we left the premier league roughly neutral in money terms - the transfers in roughly equalled transfers out and sky / sponsorship any other cash we were getting in covered wages and everything else?
Am I roughly correct there give or take a bit either way? |
Not quite true.
Between 2012 and 2017 the club invested a total of just under £80 million net in players, spread over all years fairly evenly except '13 and '16 where player sales generated just under £4 million net each year.
No new capital was injected into the club during that period so the laws of finance dictate that investment was financed by some sort of debt.
However, that was not immediately apparent to everybody due to Jenkin's sleight of hand, although in fairness he may not actually have been fully aware of what he was doing himself.
Other than that you could put it that revenues were covering wages and other costs, although it is something of an oversimplification. | |
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| How much money? on 21:44 - Aug 26 with 2349 views | Chief |
| How much money? on 21:24 - Aug 26 by Shaky |
Not quite true.
Between 2012 and 2017 the club invested a total of just under £80 million net in players, spread over all years fairly evenly except '13 and '16 where player sales generated just under £4 million net each year.
No new capital was injected into the club during that period so the laws of finance dictate that investment was financed by some sort of debt.
However, that was not immediately apparent to everybody due to Jenkin's sleight of hand, although in fairness he may not actually have been fully aware of what he was doing himself.
Other than that you could put it that revenues were covering wages and other costs, although it is something of an oversimplification. |
£80million net in players? Really??? | |
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