| Wage bill BS 23:56 - Aug 28 with 6487 views | omarjack |
There must be some serious fudging going on in there. A reported wage bill of 99 m in the latest accounts is insane. If we want to compare our wages with other bigger clubs with obviously better players, It's practically an evidence that the Americans and their friends are getting a huge sum of this reported wage bill just so they can claim poverty.
Few examples:
Everton have a bill of 105 m
Southampton and Leicester, 112 m (surely it's higher than ours but not by much)
Stoke at 85 m only.
West Ham at 95 m FFS.
Tottenham have a world class squad with wages set at 127 m only.
So where did this 99 m really go?
We have a terrible squad in comparison to some of the clubs I mentioned. Senior squad can't possibly be getting paid more than 50 m..at a stretch, with manager, and manager pay offs imo.
And perhaps 25 m going to other staff and social security etc..what about the rest of the money? I just don't believe the reported wage bill at all.
The year before than our wages were at 82 m..easier to swallow, How did the wage bill increase to almost a hundred without really signing many high earners without getting rid of others?
It's all lies..50 m going on other wages like some medics, scouts and some ground staff is utter and complete bollocks. Most of it is going to the board's salaries no doubt.
It's all so they can say "oh, we don't have a pot to p!ss in as you can see in the official reports!"
In their first season since they took over, They reported a profit of 13.5 m I think? But I am certain they've made extra 25-30 m in profit from the club. They just reported it as "wages"
f*cking liars. It's their wages. [Post edited 28 Aug 2018 23:59]
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| Wage bill BS on 03:39 - Aug 29 with 3821 views | snork44 |
E20 and the Res will be along to state that you are talking bollocks! |  |
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| Wage bill BS on 07:14 - Aug 29 with 3664 views | awayjack |
Had a good debate with Jasper on this in another thread. Your right that £99m of wages in 2017 is off the scale compared to our peers, higher than Stoke and West Ham and not far off Spurs. I’d hope the Trust are all over this, plus the extra £27m of other expenses in 2017. £126m is an outrageous amount but probably more down to poor financial management than anything untoward. It’s hard to get an accurate breakdown but figures will include:
- Unlike well run clubs like Burnley (costs in 2017 £45m lower than ours) we lost discipline of serious wage structure and caps.
- Loan fees and likes of Gomis on ‘free’ transfers that we actually had to pay in excessive wages.
- Large bonuses for our league position in 2016/17.
- Agents fees (£7m or so in press).
- Compensation for sacking 3 managers and their coaching teams.
- Big increases in Board salaries and more consultants post the Yanks deal.
Most recognise we needed to cut costs. Player wages are largest and obvious we’ve taken a huge axe to these. Key question is what’s happening with tens of millions in other costs, including Board , consultants, management fees, associated offshore, vending and building companies, plus agents and huge number of back-office staff.
Lots of confidential stuff but the Trust should have detailed of all these costs and the plans to reduce to the levels needed outside the PL, including our extremely high non playing costs. |  | | |
| Wage bill BS on 07:25 - Aug 29 with 3607 views | E20Jack |
| Wage bill BS on 03:39 - Aug 29 by snork44 |
E20 and the Res will be along to state that you are talking bollocks! |
Have you read it?
I honestly didn’t think it would need me to say it. |  |
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| Wage bill BS on 08:38 - Aug 29 with 3453 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
The Trust Director needs to ask for a list of everyone on the payroll and their salary. |  |
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| Wage bill BS on 08:58 - Aug 29 with 3397 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Wage bill BS on 08:38 - Aug 29 by JACKMANANDBOY |
The Trust Director needs to ask for a list of everyone on the payroll and their salary. |
You have a point.
Everybody to be named, and everybody - say - over £50k to have their actual salary listed.
Its not unreasonable for the Trust to ask for this in the circumstances. |  |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Wage bill BS on 09:33 - Aug 29 with 3293 views | PapaLazarou |
Got to agree that the Trust should be in the position to demand a full scale audit of everyone earning over a certain amount per year, something isn't adding up there. |  | | |
| Wage bill BS on 10:11 - Aug 29 with 3184 views | awayjack |
| Wage bill BS on 08:58 - Aug 29 by Kilkennyjack |
You have a point.
Everybody to be named, and everybody - say - over £50k to have their actual salary listed.
Its not unreasonable for the Trust to ask for this in the circumstances. |
Yup and same analysis of non-wage costs with specific details of any consultants, management fees, offshore transfers, agents and all costs directly related to businesess the directors, shareholders or their family have an interest in. | | | |
| Wage bill BS on 10:12 - Aug 29 with 3179 views | Shaky |
| Wage bill BS on 09:33 - Aug 29 by PapaLazarou |
Got to agree that the Trust should be in the position to demand a full scale audit of everyone earning over a certain amount per year, something isn't adding up there. |
By virtue of company Law a business of this size is already obliged to carry out an audit for the benefit of all shareholders, and in the case of Swansea that is carried out by BDO which is a perfectly respectable firm.
As part of that audit they are obliged to report how much is paid to directors and in 2017 that amounted to £633,666 earned by 1 guy, which by a simple process of deduction is Jenkins.
Nothing fishy going on here, except the management genius of Jenkins at work taking the club to 10th place in the ranking of Premier league wage bills.
Oytstanding. |  |
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| Wage bill BS on 10:14 - Aug 29 with 3162 views | LeonWasGod |
"A reported wage bill of 99 m [is] practically an evidence that the Americans and their friends are getting a huge sum of this reported wage bill".
What have you been smoking?
The only thing you can draw from the headline figure is that we overpaid sh*t players. |  | | |
| Wage bill BS on 10:18 - Aug 29 with 3146 views | Jinxy |
Perhaps an external financial audit could be commissioned? Not necessarily for investigative purposes, ahem, more so in order to enhance the efficient running of the club. There should be no opposition to it if there are no irregularities. |  | | |
| Wage bill BS on 10:20 - Aug 29 with 3136 views | Catullus |
On another thread I speculated the wage bill was around 102 million, after Dineen's comments. Then I speculated, with all the departures that we had seiously cut it back when 12 players and the loan signings left.
Without seeing the accounts and accepting my figures aren't correct but possibly close, this isn't surprising to me. Still, doing basic maths we should be able to afford 2/3 loan signings? Then, that was before Narsingh, Dyer and Routledge said they wanted to stay. I love Dyer and Routs but their time here was up already, they need to find new clubs and maybe that's the problem, no one else wants them on their wages. Narsingh has done nothing to engender any loyalty from me.
All the posts about negligence, incompetence, bad decisions and/or feathering of nests, they all look very true. |  |
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| Wage bill BS on 10:21 - Aug 29 with 3127 views | Shaky |
| Wage bill BS on 10:18 - Aug 29 by Jinxy |
Perhaps an external financial audit could be commissioned? Not necessarily for investigative purposes, ahem, more so in order to enhance the efficient running of the club. There should be no opposition to it if there are no irregularities. |
Well the cost of such an exercise both in terms of cash and management time would be pretty good reasons not to reinvent the wheel, with both at a considerable premium in the club currently. | |
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| Wage bill BS on 10:25 - Aug 29 with 3094 views | Jinxy |
| Wage bill BS on 10:21 - Aug 29 by Shaky |
Well the cost of such an exercise both in terms of cash and management time would be pretty good reasons not to reinvent the wheel, with both at a considerable premium in the club currently. |
Fair point, but perhaps benefits would outweigh costs, resources etc.. I'm sure this would have been already considered by the Trust though, especially given some of the newer members with sound financial know-how far greater than I. | | | |
| Wage bill BS on 10:26 - Aug 29 with 3088 views | WarwickHunt |
| Wage bill BS on 10:12 - Aug 29 by Shaky |
By virtue of company Law a business of this size is already obliged to carry out an audit for the benefit of all shareholders, and in the case of Swansea that is carried out by BDO which is a perfectly respectable firm.
As part of that audit they are obliged to report how much is paid to directors and in 2017 that amounted to £633,666 earned by 1 guy, which by a simple process of deduction is Jenkins.
Nothing fishy going on here, except the management genius of Jenkins at work taking the club to 10th place in the ranking of Premier league wage bills.
Oytstanding. |
666?
Hmmm... |  | | |
| Wage bill BS on 10:44 - Aug 29 with 3022 views | waynekerr55 |
| Wage bill BS on 10:12 - Aug 29 by Shaky |
By virtue of company Law a business of this size is already obliged to carry out an audit for the benefit of all shareholders, and in the case of Swansea that is carried out by BDO which is a perfectly respectable firm.
As part of that audit they are obliged to report how much is paid to directors and in 2017 that amounted to £633,666 earned by 1 guy, which by a simple process of deduction is Jenkins.
Nothing fishy going on here, except the management genius of Jenkins at work taking the club to 10th place in the ranking of Premier league wage bills.
Oytstanding. |
More Oyston than Oytstanding |  |
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| Wage bill BS on 10:59 - Aug 29 with 2956 views | vetchonian |
| Wage bill BS on 10:20 - Aug 29 by Catullus |
On another thread I speculated the wage bill was around 102 million, after Dineen's comments. Then I speculated, with all the departures that we had seiously cut it back when 12 players and the loan signings left.
Without seeing the accounts and accepting my figures aren't correct but possibly close, this isn't surprising to me. Still, doing basic maths we should be able to afford 2/3 loan signings? Then, that was before Narsingh, Dyer and Routledge said they wanted to stay. I love Dyer and Routs but their time here was up already, they need to find new clubs and maybe that's the problem, no one else wants them on their wages. Narsingh has done nothing to engender any loyalty from me.
All the posts about negligence, incompetence, bad decisions and/or feathering of nests, they all look very true. |
HOw can you say there has been,"negligence,incompetence,bad decsion making".
We shoulod be so grateful fo have Huw at the helm to give us what we have been given.
Listen to a couple ( or maybe the same person with multiple personality disorder) Huw has done a sterling job and we should not be questioning him or his contiuned presence. | |
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| Wage bill BS on 11:49 - Aug 29 with 2831 views | WxmJax |
I've never understood how the 'wage bill' is so high. If the average wage for 20 players was £50k per week, this would amount to £52m. Add another 300 people doing various jobs on £50k a year for another £15m and we're still only 2/3rds of the way to the total bill and I think I'm overestimating the figures. |  |
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| Wage bill BS on 12:23 - Aug 29 with 2731 views | PozuelosSideys |
There are bundles of additional add-on costs to a basic payroll - I assume most of our players aren't on it and that theyd be self employed? If its the latter, then you can add VAT at 20%. If they are payrolled then there is likely to up to a 30% additional employer cost to be paid which covers NICS etc - that's assuming nobody is pensionable which they probably are.
All the match bonuses are probably put through in the overall wage bill. Plus I suspect we are carrying incurred costs from previous seasons for playing staff who are no longer here but we still technically pay a figure - like Ayew on loan - we are covering part of the cost - that's £1.5m if we still pay £20k a week
Its not as black and white as just saying 30 players*average £20kpw*52 = doom and gloom
Think we were at around 90% wages to income ratio last time it was reported about a year ago as well. |  |
| "Michu, Britton and Williams could have won 3-0 on their own. They wouldn't have required a keeper." | | Poll: | Hattricks |
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| Wage bill BS on 12:38 - Aug 29 with 2664 views | jasper_T |
| Wage bill BS on 11:49 - Aug 29 by WxmJax |
I've never understood how the 'wage bill' is so high. If the average wage for 20 players was £50k per week, this would amount to £52m. Add another 300 people doing various jobs on £50k a year for another £15m and we're still only 2/3rds of the way to the total bill and I think I'm overestimating the figures. |
We have over 100 players on the books even now (when you include first and second year scholars).
Our Premier League squad was closer to 40 players than 20 when you include the deadwood out on dubious loans. | | | |
| Wage bill BS on 12:49 - Aug 29 with 2619 views | monmouth |
The statutory audit will only confirm that the accounts are 'true and fair' in material respects. ie that it is material true and fair that 'wages' are 99m. I would think management or consultancy fees would be a separate line. Certainly payments to directors are disclosed separately as Shaky said.
In any case, Stuart MacDonald (who is an accountant I believe?) sits on the board that signs off the accounts and will therefore have a detailed breakdown of the constituents of the wages total, given its size and materiality.. |  |
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| Wage bill BS on 12:59 - Aug 29 with 2575 views | AguycalledJack |
| Wage bill BS on 10:59 - Aug 29 by vetchonian |
HOw can you say there has been,"negligence,incompetence,bad decsion making".
We shoulod be so grateful fo have Huw at the helm to give us what we have been given.
Listen to a couple ( or maybe the same person with multiple personality disorder) Huw has done a sterling job and we should not be questioning him or his contiuned presence. |
Yep. As promised, were definitely at the next level. | | | |
| Wage bill BS on 13:11 - Aug 29 with 2520 views | awayjack |
| Wage bill BS on 12:23 - Aug 29 by PozuelosSideys |
There are bundles of additional add-on costs to a basic payroll - I assume most of our players aren't on it and that theyd be self employed? If its the latter, then you can add VAT at 20%. If they are payrolled then there is likely to up to a 30% additional employer cost to be paid which covers NICS etc - that's assuming nobody is pensionable which they probably are.
All the match bonuses are probably put through in the overall wage bill. Plus I suspect we are carrying incurred costs from previous seasons for playing staff who are no longer here but we still technically pay a figure - like Ayew on loan - we are covering part of the cost - that's £1.5m if we still pay £20k a week
Its not as black and white as just saying 30 players*average £20kpw*52 = doom and gloom
Think we were at around 90% wages to income ratio last time it was reported about a year ago as well. |
Agree £20k a week is too simplistic but the unfavourable comparisons with other clubs wage costs are highly relevant. Burnley had similar income, probably a better squad but their wages in 2017 were £61m (ours £99m) and their other expenses £11m (ours £27m). Key point is if we’re run so badly our cost base was £55m more than Burnley, it can’t be sustained without selling our most valuable players every window.
So question is why are our costs so high when compared to Burnley, or clubs with far larger squads / higher profile players like Stoke or West Ham? If
Re VAT players are on wages not self employed so no VAT cost. VAT would be recoverable anyway.
Employees NI is just over 14% at top, and most players sort their own pensions / investments out. Bonuses I suspect are much higher, not just goals / wins etc but large bonuses based on our league position / avoiding relegation. Assume in 2018 account these bonuses will be much lower. | | | |
| Wage bill BS on 13:13 - Aug 29 with 2517 views | Tom1912 |
| Wage bill BS on 10:59 - Aug 29 by vetchonian |
HOw can you say there has been,"negligence,incompetence,bad decsion making".
We shoulod be so grateful fo have Huw at the helm to give us what we have been given.
Listen to a couple ( or maybe the same person with multiple personality disorder) Huw has done a sterling job and we should not be questioning him or his contiuned presence. |
Huw and his cronies have been more than amply rewarded for what they did for the club.
Huw was also a very good chairman below the PL and deserves a huge amount of credit for taking us up through the leagues.
However, at PL level his limitations were eventually exposed and there have been awful decisions made over the last few years that have left the club in a huge mess which we are now having to unravel. He has certainly not been deserving of his huge salary and ideally we would have replaced him by now. | | | |
| Wage bill BS on 13:19 - Aug 29 with 2497 views | Shaky |
| Wage bill BS on 13:11 - Aug 29 by awayjack |
Agree £20k a week is too simplistic but the unfavourable comparisons with other clubs wage costs are highly relevant. Burnley had similar income, probably a better squad but their wages in 2017 were £61m (ours £99m) and their other expenses £11m (ours £27m). Key point is if we’re run so badly our cost base was £55m more than Burnley, it can’t be sustained without selling our most valuable players every window.
So question is why are our costs so high when compared to Burnley, or clubs with far larger squads / higher profile players like Stoke or West Ham? If
Re VAT players are on wages not self employed so no VAT cost. VAT would be recoverable anyway.
Employees NI is just over 14% at top, and most players sort their own pensions / investments out. Bonuses I suspect are much higher, not just goals / wins etc but large bonuses based on our league position / avoiding relegation. Assume in 2018 account these bonuses will be much lower. |
On the comparison front it is fair to say the longer a club has been in the top flight, the higher its relative costs are likely to be as wages inflate over time.
Furthermore fairly newly promoted clubs arrive with Championship level costs and the fresh memories of having to survive on that level of TV income which no doubt encourages caution.
However, that said Jenkins clearly allowed wage costs to spiral completely out of control, and in my view much of that can be traced back to the decisions to sign players like Gomis and A Ayew MK I on free transfers compensated by inflated wages.
That sort of thing gets around quickly in a dressing room, and is then reflected in negotiated wages over the ensuing years. [Post edited 29 Aug 2018 13:20]
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| Wage bill BS on 13:44 - Aug 29 with 2440 views | Badlands |
It's been said by many managers over many years, it is difficult getting players to come to Swansea.
Outside our world we are a small backwater of England miles from anywhere and not much to do. Fabianski enjoyed his quiet rural life here but most don't relish the prospect. W have also been thought to have difficulty in retaining good managers and not securing quality alternatives.
We have, in recent years, had to pay silly money in transfers and salaries for poor players.
I would hazard a guess we also have been paying above average for our under 23s.
It quickly adds up. |  |
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