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Trust Chairman’s Update 19:13 - Sep 5 with 12588 viewsDarran

‘It has been almost three weeks since the last update I provided to our members about events at Swans Trust, at what is a critical time for both the Trust and the Club.

I have some key updates for you around the mediation process that we announced in May and the questions we have asked the football club around the decisions taken over the last few months.

Let me start with an update about the mediation process. In May, we informed our members that we had attempted to engage with the majority owners of Swansea City and other parties (including Huw Jenkins and Martin Morgan) through a formal mediation process, beginning with a claim letter that set out the Trust’s legal case in detail and proposed a mediation. Mediation is a voluntary and confidential process in which relevant parties seek to resolve disputes with the assistance of a trained independent and impartial mediator.

Our aim was, and remains, to seek an agreement to settle past differences, subject to members’ approval, with a view to moving ahead together with the task of rebuilding the club and returning it to top level football.

The Trust entered this process in good faith, attempting to resolve all issues without the need for formal court proceedings. Unfortunately, the legal representatives of the majority owners initially refused our offer to mediate, questioning whether it was genuine, and bizarrely accused the Trust of trying to harm the Club.

An initial ’Without Prejudice’ meeting was held with Huw Jenkins and Martin Morgan in early June, however there has been no follow up meeting with them or their lawyers, although the Trust was open to the possibility.

The courts have a ‘Practice Direction’, which sets out the guidelines which parties in dispute should follow before they start court proceedings. This includes trying to reach agreement by means such as mediation. The Practice Direction outlines a maximum timeline within which the relevant parties should provide a full written response to the Trust’s claim. The Trust and its legal representatives have provided every opportunity for this to be met, even allowing the maximum possible timeline which is usually reserved for more complex cases than this. Unfortunately, this deadline passed on 20thAugust without a response being received, either from the majority owners or the others.

Since the deadline passed, things have progressed a little. Our legal team were contacted by the legal representatives of the majority owners and, as a result, we are currently in discussions to arrange a meeting between the Trust, the majority owners and other parties within the next few weeks.

As a Trust, we must continue to protect our legal position. As part of the mediation process, the Trust requested access to various pieces of documentation relating to the 2016 sale.These documents have not yet been received. On the advice of our legal team, the Trust board has instructed our lawyers to initiate legal action to obtain access to these documents, unless they are provided within a further 7 days. This is a limited legal action specifically to obtain access to these documents. It is not the same as undertaking legal action relating to the sale itself and its impact on the Trust’s shareholding. We hope those issues can still be resolved as part of the discussions that are scheduled to take place in the next few weeks. However, these documents are important so that the Trust can best advise its members on the next course of action to take, which could mean undertaking legal action relating to the 2016 sale and its impact on the Trust’s position.

I can assure you that we will investigate every option available to us to ensure that we get the right result for the Trust, whichwill only be concluded following a full consultation and ballot of our members. We will, of course, continue to keep you updated as things progress.



As representatives of the fans, it is key that we understand the reasons for decisions made by the Club and gain assurances on the financial management of the Club. In my last update, I said that the Trust had sent a comprehensive list of questions to the majority owners of the Club, to obtain some clarity on the club’s financial position after this summer, understand the reasons for why decisions were made as well as seeking to ensure that the decisions taken are in the best interests of the Club. Many of these questions related to our transfer dealings this summer, but we also sought clarity on our financial obligations in the future, such as the salaries of senior employees. We know that relegation to the Championship means that we will receive considerably less revenue than previously, and we need to cut our cloth accordingly, but without visibility on the current situation we cannot say if the decisions taken were in the Club’s best interests.

The majority owners have responded to our requests and offered to meet with Stuart MacDonald, our Supporter Director, to answer our questions and provide those assurances. That was a positive step. However, the club havealso insisted that before any meeting takes place that an NDA (Non-Disclosure Agreement) was signed by Stuart. This NDA would have prevented Stuart releasing key information into the public domain but, crucially, also stopped him from providing any information to the Trust board. This is unacceptable as it would mean that the Trust board could not gain the reassurances that we needed, plus puts our Supporter Director in an impossible position.

We have advised the majority owners that our Supporter Director will not be signing this document and we are deeply disappointed and angry that it was suggested he should sign in the first place given both Stuart’s position as a Director of the Club (which already brings with it fiduciary duties regarding confidential information being made public) but also our position as a 21% shareholder and representative of the fans. We will continue to push for these answers but not being able to provide them at this time is very disappointing.

Furthermore, the request to sign an NDA arrived just 48 hours after some key commercial information relating to the club was released via a private message exchange on Twitter by a current employee (and former shareholder) with a young supporter, which later entered the public domain. Whilst we welcome all levels of fan engagement by members of the Club’s hierarchy, it is completely inappropriate that the Supporter Director is asked to withhold information from the Trust board whilst others release this information to anyone who asks. Not for the first time, we have expressed our strong opinion that Leigh Dineen’s continued employment at the football club is inappropriate, not least due to his unprofessionalism in this matter.

On a separate note we were pleased to play a part in the competitive pricing for the Carabao Cup tie against Crystal Palace and we commend the club for listening to our viewpoints on this matter. While the result did not go our way, there were some promising debuts for some of our younger players which was pleasing to see.

I would also like to applaud the excellent efforts of Graham Potter, the coaching staff and the playing squad in performing so well at the start of this season. There has also been an obvious change in footballing philosophy on the pitch and this has made watching the Swans a much more enjoyable experience than in recent times.

This is a critical time for this organisation, and the Club as a whole. The Trust is only as strong as its membership and, in the coming weeks, we will be seeking to increase our membership base to provide as strong a voice for the fans as possible. We would welcome your help in getting the message out to fans about the importance of joining and the need for a strong Supporters Trust, especially at this time.

I would like to thank everyone who has joined us this evening and for all members who have already joined for this year. We will now open for any questions’
[Post edited 5 Sep 2018 19:17]

The first ever recipient of a Planet Swans Lifetime Achievement Award.
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Trust Chairman’s Update on 23:02 - Sep 5 with 1367 viewsbarry_island

Trust Chairman’s Update on 22:25 - Sep 5 by Yossarian

Yeah- just look at Dineen on Twitter...a point emphasised again by Phil in his address.


A clumsy diversionary tactic possibly?

If these "leaks" and friendly fireside chats with Uncle Sam's boys do nothing else, they show us the importance of these "useless" Trust forums in the eyes of the Board, both ancient and modern.

Swansea City, THE Austerity Club.

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Trust Chairman’s Update on 23:05 - Sep 5 with 1349 viewsUxbridge

Trust Chairman’s Update on 23:01 - Sep 5 by _

Why did they insist on an NDA? Simple question.


Simple answer, you'd have to ask them. There are far leakier sieves in Swansea than the Trust. Always have been.

Blog: Whose money is it anyway?

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Trust Chairman’s Update on 23:05 - Sep 5 with 1348 viewsDarran

Trust Chairman’s Update on 22:52 - Sep 5 by EasternJack

Did you vote for the trust’s recommendation to sell their shares and absolve the majority owners and previous shareholders of any legal consequences?
[Post edited 5 Sep 2018 22:54]


I voted for legal action. Why?

The first ever recipient of a Planet Swans Lifetime Achievement Award.
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Trust Chairman’s Update on 23:10 - Sep 5 with 1300 views_

Trust Chairman’s Update on 23:05 - Sep 5 by Uxbridge

Simple answer, you'd have to ask them. There are far leakier sieves in Swansea than the Trust. Always have been.


So you didn't even ask?

You're all out of time....the past was yours but the future's mine.
Poll: With what we've seen since June, Potter in, players out etc, are the Americans

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Trust Chairman’s Update on 23:11 - Sep 5 with 1296 viewsIAN05

Trust Chairman’s Update on 23:05 - Sep 5 by Uxbridge

Simple answer, you'd have to ask them. There are far leakier sieves in Swansea than the Trust. Always have been.


You only need anyone of the Jenkins/Morgan surname within distance to realise that. The same family links will happily tell you anything that know, especially their real views on American owners.
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Trust Chairman’s Update on 23:13 - Sep 5 with 1279 viewsUxbridge

Trust Chairman’s Update on 23:10 - Sep 5 by _

So you didn't even ask?


Sorry, I thought you wanted the real reason. I could only speculate on that.

They said the information asked for was beyond what a director would normally receive. Which, to be blunt, is balls.

Blog: Whose money is it anyway?

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Trust Chairman’s Update on 23:15 - Sep 5 with 1261 viewsEasternJack

Trust Chairman’s Update on 23:05 - Sep 5 by Darran

I voted for legal action. Why?


Good to hear. Don’t you think the trust are being hypocritical and borderline schizophrenic with this current change of tack? It may explain the way they’re now being treated by the owners? I don’t agree with their tactics, but I understand why the owners may not trust the trust.

Add to that, the trust are still tiptoeing around the issue. Why entertain any discussion (that have strings attached) when they’ve already followed due process and waited the required time?

They’re entitled to this information and have adequate controls in place around non disclosure. Phil’s statement suggests that they’ve paused the legal route to obtain this data. Would be good to confirm if that is not true.

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Trust Chairman’s Update on 23:16 - Sep 5 with 1255 viewsIAN05

Trust Chairman’s Update on 22:02 - Sep 5 by _

I was under the impression life itself had asked Stu to sign a facking great big walloping NDA ;-)


Tonight was first time I've seen Stu really fronting up publicly. I'm a big fan of Stu as person and as a Swans fan but I worry he is too passive for what we need in a supporter director.

We need someone who will interogate and represent supporters and not necessarily a peace keeper.
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Trust Chairman’s Update on 23:18 - Sep 5 with 1243 viewsDarran

Trust Chairman’s Update on 23:15 - Sep 5 by EasternJack

Good to hear. Don’t you think the trust are being hypocritical and borderline schizophrenic with this current change of tack? It may explain the way they’re now being treated by the owners? I don’t agree with their tactics, but I understand why the owners may not trust the trust.

Add to that, the trust are still tiptoeing around the issue. Why entertain any discussion (that have strings attached) when they’ve already followed due process and waited the required time?

They’re entitled to this information and have adequate controls in place around non disclosure. Phil’s statement suggests that they’ve paused the legal route to obtain this data. Would be good to confirm if that is not true.


Seems to me like the Americans moved the goalposts creating this current change of tack.

Well not really just to me it’s public knowledge that’s what happened isn’t it?

The first ever recipient of a Planet Swans Lifetime Achievement Award.
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Trust Chairman’s Update on 23:19 - Sep 5 with 1240 viewsUxbridge

Trust Chairman’s Update on 23:15 - Sep 5 by EasternJack

Good to hear. Don’t you think the trust are being hypocritical and borderline schizophrenic with this current change of tack? It may explain the way they’re now being treated by the owners? I don’t agree with their tactics, but I understand why the owners may not trust the trust.

Add to that, the trust are still tiptoeing around the issue. Why entertain any discussion (that have strings attached) when they’ve already followed due process and waited the required time?

They’re entitled to this information and have adequate controls in place around non disclosure. Phil’s statement suggests that they’ve paused the legal route to obtain this data. Would be good to confirm if that is not true.


It is not true. The legal action regarding the documentation is in progress.

There will be a meeting in the next couple of weeks with the Americans. Until then, the wheels won't stop turning on the legal path. There's still work that would need to be done before any members consultation voting on legal action for example.

I'm not sure if people understand the effort that goes into preparing a legal case and following the required process. It takes time, especially for a members organisation. It's not just a case of pulling the trigger and kicking it off.

Blog: Whose money is it anyway?

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Trust Chairman’s Update on 23:21 - Sep 5 with 1227 viewsUxbridge

Trust Chairman’s Update on 23:16 - Sep 5 by IAN05

Tonight was first time I've seen Stu really fronting up publicly. I'm a big fan of Stu as person and as a Swans fan but I worry he is too passive for what we need in a supporter director.

We need someone who will interogate and represent supporters and not necessarily a peace keeper.


In fairness, Stu has been at the top table for every one of the fans forums in the last couple of years at least. Longer probably. Probably more questions for him today given the nature of the discussion though.

I've long said he'd help his own cause by being more active online though. As Phil mentioned, Stu will be dong an online Q&A in the coming weeks.

Blog: Whose money is it anyway?

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Trust Chairman’s Update on 23:24 - Sep 5 with 1218 viewsEasternJack

Trust Chairman’s Update on 23:19 - Sep 5 by Uxbridge

It is not true. The legal action regarding the documentation is in progress.

There will be a meeting in the next couple of weeks with the Americans. Until then, the wheels won't stop turning on the legal path. There's still work that would need to be done before any members consultation voting on legal action for example.

I'm not sure if people understand the effort that goes into preparing a legal case and following the required process. It takes time, especially for a members organisation. It's not just a case of pulling the trigger and kicking it off.


Thank Uxbridge. Again, good to hear.

The way I read the statement suggested that it was paused now that the club have reached out (obviously in response to the action). The NDA request is outrageous, shows bad faith and should refocus efforts on the legal route.

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Trust Chairman’s Update on 23:28 - Sep 5 with 1191 viewsUxbridge

Trust Chairman’s Update on 23:24 - Sep 5 by EasternJack

Thank Uxbridge. Again, good to hear.

The way I read the statement suggested that it was paused now that the club have reached out (obviously in response to the action). The NDA request is outrageous, shows bad faith and should refocus efforts on the legal route.


No worries. Anyway, nothing will pause. Plenty to be getting on with to prepare for that path in the meantime.

And yes, I completely agree. It'd be one thing to ask other members of the Trust board privy to the information to sign a standard NDA, but a director of the club? As you say, outrageous.

Blog: Whose money is it anyway?

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Trust Chairman’s Update on 23:28 - Sep 5 with 1184 views_

Trust Chairman’s Update on 23:13 - Sep 5 by Uxbridge

Sorry, I thought you wanted the real reason. I could only speculate on that.

They said the information asked for was beyond what a director would normally receive. Which, to be blunt, is balls.


To them, in their world, I'm guessing that would be correct.

When they brought the Club it was clear they wanted to control the lot and be the sole decision makers. They're finding it as hard to come to terms with your involvement as you are with their control.

But it wasn't a "no" from them and I know the offer came with impossible (in your eyes) attachments. But that's just their way of operating versus your amateur set up - because with all the respect in the world that's what they see you as.

They don't trust you either, I think that's a fair statement, isn't it?

You're all out of time....the past was yours but the future's mine.
Poll: With what we've seen since June, Potter in, players out etc, are the Americans

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Trust Chairman’s Update on 23:31 - Sep 5 with 1163 viewsUxbridge

Trust Chairman’s Update on 23:28 - Sep 5 by _

To them, in their world, I'm guessing that would be correct.

When they brought the Club it was clear they wanted to control the lot and be the sole decision makers. They're finding it as hard to come to terms with your involvement as you are with their control.

But it wasn't a "no" from them and I know the offer came with impossible (in your eyes) attachments. But that's just their way of operating versus your amateur set up - because with all the respect in the world that's what they see you as.

They don't trust you either, I think that's a fair statement, isn't it?


Your post seems to imply they are the ones acting professionally. I think that's nonsense. There's a wealth of professional experience on the Trust board.

If you want to know what I think, I think the idea of having to engage with anyone is a cultural struggle for them. It's not what they're used to. If they want to resolve the issues, they are the ones that are going to have to change though.

Blog: Whose money is it anyway?

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Trust Chairman’s Update on 23:35 - Sep 5 with 1125 views_

Trust Chairman’s Update on 23:31 - Sep 5 by Uxbridge

Your post seems to imply they are the ones acting professionally. I think that's nonsense. There's a wealth of professional experience on the Trust board.

If you want to know what I think, I think the idea of having to engage with anyone is a cultural struggle for them. It's not what they're used to. If they want to resolve the issues, they are the ones that are going to have to change though.


Nobody on the Trust Board has been in a position to finance and head up a multi million pound company.

Your experience doesn't come close to theirs.

We want something they have. You change.

You're all out of time....the past was yours but the future's mine.
Poll: With what we've seen since June, Potter in, players out etc, are the Americans

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Trust Chairman’s Update on 23:38 - Sep 5 with 1110 viewsDarran

Trust Chairman’s Update on 23:28 - Sep 5 by _

To them, in their world, I'm guessing that would be correct.

When they brought the Club it was clear they wanted to control the lot and be the sole decision makers. They're finding it as hard to come to terms with your involvement as you are with their control.

But it wasn't a "no" from them and I know the offer came with impossible (in your eyes) attachments. But that's just their way of operating versus your amateur set up - because with all the respect in the world that's what they see you as.

They don't trust you either, I think that's a fair statement, isn't it?


Aye amateur like Jonathan Hayden Williams a solicitor and expert in mediation who’s working on behalf of the Trust. lol

The first ever recipient of a Planet Swans Lifetime Achievement Award.
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Trust Chairman’s Update on 23:40 - Sep 5 with 1096 views_

Trust Chairman’s Update on 23:16 - Sep 5 by IAN05

Tonight was first time I've seen Stu really fronting up publicly. I'm a big fan of Stu as person and as a Swans fan but I worry he is too passive for what we need in a supporter director.

We need someone who will interogate and represent supporters and not necessarily a peace keeper.


Every time I say something derogatory about him I get pissed off with myself as I know he's a lovely fella, but he's not what we need as SD. He's as quiet and as gentle as they come. The Trust know this though and they've done nothing to deal with it.

The result. We keep plodding on to Nowhere.

You're all out of time....the past was yours but the future's mine.
Poll: With what we've seen since June, Potter in, players out etc, are the Americans

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Trust Chairman’s Update on 23:42 - Sep 5 with 1078 views_

Trust Chairman’s Update on 23:21 - Sep 5 by Uxbridge

In fairness, Stu has been at the top table for every one of the fans forums in the last couple of years at least. Longer probably. Probably more questions for him today given the nature of the discussion though.

I've long said he'd help his own cause by being more active online though. As Phil mentioned, Stu will be dong an online Q&A in the coming weeks.


You all hide behind a silent man because none of you have what it takes to get stuck in where it's really needed.

You're all out of time....the past was yours but the future's mine.
Poll: With what we've seen since June, Potter in, players out etc, are the Americans

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Trust Chairman’s Update on 23:46 - Sep 5 with 1058 viewsUxbridge

Trust Chairman’s Update on 23:35 - Sep 5 by _

Nobody on the Trust Board has been in a position to finance and head up a multi million pound company.

Your experience doesn't come close to theirs.

We want something they have. You change.


The Trust has changed.

There are also people in the Trust far more experienced in the realities of our football club than a couple of hedge fund managers. We could play that game all day. Well not now as I'm off to bed.

I'll make one final point before I go. The goals of the Trust and the Americans could easily align. The fact the relationship has been as fraught as it has been is due to the lack of engagement from one side. That's on them, pure and simple. Disagree all you want, but a lot of this could have been easily avoidable.

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Trust Chairman’s Update on 01:00 - Sep 6 with 969 viewsLoyal

Trust Chairman’s Update on 20:28 - Sep 5 by TheResurrection

This fool is a prime example why the Americans may not want to disclose sensitive information. Phil uses Darren as his mouthpiece whenever he wants something shutting down or, not so discretely, getting out there. This site bans and censors people.

There's no wonder they don't want club information in the hands of this Dick.


Whose a dick now?
Phil?

Nolan sympathiser, clout expert, personal friend of Leigh Dineen, advocate and enforcer of porridge swallows. The official inventor of the tit w@nk.
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Trust Chairman’s Update on 01:02 - Sep 6 with 969 viewsLoyal

Trust Chairman’s Update on 21:03 - Sep 5 by Shaky

Including Jenkins?

Notwithstanding his apparent demotion, I find that very hard to believe indeed!


Yeah but they don't lie OK ® etc...

Nolan sympathiser, clout expert, personal friend of Leigh Dineen, advocate and enforcer of porridge swallows. The official inventor of the tit w@nk.
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Trust Chairman’s Update on 01:22 - Sep 6 with 953 viewsLoyal

Trust Chairman’s Update on 23:21 - Sep 5 by Uxbridge

In fairness, Stu has been at the top table for every one of the fans forums in the last couple of years at least. Longer probably. Probably more questions for him today given the nature of the discussion though.

I've long said he'd help his own cause by being more active online though. As Phil mentioned, Stu will be dong an online Q&A in the coming weeks.


Fck me, will he have a tartan blanket on his knees and be wheeled in like young Mr Grace waving his walking stick in the air ! This guy needs to stand up and start thinking properly about what the fck he is about or stand aside and let someone do the job who has a pair of balls and the aptitude to do it - without giving the impression they are a scared mouse in the corner.

Every single person who has held this role has either been bullied, ignored or useless, in the words of T2C or the Res or whatever tossing dress he is wearing tonight... Its facking bollox.
[Post edited 6 Sep 2018 1:27]

Nolan sympathiser, clout expert, personal friend of Leigh Dineen, advocate and enforcer of porridge swallows. The official inventor of the tit w@nk.
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Trust Chairman’s Update on 04:00 - Sep 6 with 886 viewsDewi1jack

Trust Chairman’s Update on 19:58 - Sep 5 by E20Jack

But this is the exact reason we were telling the Trust to take legal action years ago. The fans voted not to.

I am fully behind the club in all aspects. But that doesn’t mean I am not behind legal action and it needs to happen. The Trust and it’s membership are unfortunately years behind.


Did you vote with the 200 odd of us for legal action?
Or for the 500 odd who voted for no action?

Or were you one of the other 50% ish who couldn't be arzed to vote on the club they profess to support?


Or worse.
You shout from the sidelines about the Trust yet wouldn't join, citing some lame excuses about whatever, bumping your gums but unwilling to take any action yourself?
Are you a member now?

You are an apologist for the very behaviour in that update. And that makes you just as bad a no mark as them.
You stick with supporting the board and let those of us who do give a fug about the club get on with supporting that.

If you wake up breathing, thats a good start to your day and you'll make many thousands of people envious.

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Trust Chairman’s Update on 06:11 - Sep 6 with 839 viewsPhil_S

Trust Chairman’s Update on 23:15 - Sep 5 by EasternJack

Good to hear. Don’t you think the trust are being hypocritical and borderline schizophrenic with this current change of tack? It may explain the way they’re now being treated by the owners? I don’t agree with their tactics, but I understand why the owners may not trust the trust.

Add to that, the trust are still tiptoeing around the issue. Why entertain any discussion (that have strings attached) when they’ve already followed due process and waited the required time?

They’re entitled to this information and have adequate controls in place around non disclosure. Phil’s statement suggests that they’ve paused the legal route to obtain this data. Would be good to confirm if that is not true.


Easily confirmed as not true.

It's interesting how these get reports and interpreted which is exactly the point I made to the room tonight why we release these on the night of a forum to allow people to ask questions.

The two issues discussed

* Mediation/legal
* Getting the answers to key financial questions

Are completely separate. Mediation/legal continues despite their request to meet. This could easily b a delaying tactic (and likely many will say that it is) so we carry o with the strategy not sit and wait for that meeting to take place and then start again.

The key financial questions remain just that and we are going back with a suggestion as to what level of NDA we (as an organisation) may be prepared to accept. I have no issue with not being able to release commercially sensitive information into the public but when presented with a document that essentially says that Stuart can be given it but he cannot tell anyone he has seen it nor that he is happy with it then it is massive over restrictive.

Will mediation work? I have my own personal opinion on that but we have a clear legal process that is being followed and the consultation that this process will involve will not be a million miles off now. Nobody is being walked over, this is a completely different board to the last one I chaired and it is active in what we are doing. And the key is we are doing it right no matter how frustrating it can seem at times.

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