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McDonnell at the Labour conference 17:42 - Sep 24 with 5983 viewswaynekerr55

Admittedly an extract from Gideon's Evening Standard

"Water bills have risen 40% in the 25 years post privatisation. "

Correct me if I'm wrong but that works out at 1.6% per annum and below the BoE target. Add to the chronic under investment in the infrastructure pre privatisation, I don't get what point he's trying to make. Labour should be smashing the Tories out of the park...
[Post edited 24 Sep 2018 17:43]

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McDonnell at the Labour conference on 21:52 - Sep 25 with 1363 viewsJack_Meoff

McDonnell at the Labour conference on 20:37 - Sep 25 by Catullus

Nobody but the fans care who a football club is sold to. However, when a government sells an asset...in Royal Mail's case sells it off cheap....and all we see is price rises and billions of profit going overseas, no wonder people are unhappy. Private buusinesses aren't a public ocncern either, the owners can do what they like.
The trouble we have today is the choice politically is between the "greed is good" tory and and an extreme socialist Labour.
We need the middle ground but even then, Blair considers himself a centrist and have we had a genuine centrist?
In business terms we all too often see that the bigger a business gets, the less it cares about staff and the focus is firmly on profits. Restricting the size a business can grow to, cutting back on globalism...a sort of capitalism with a socialist bent, seems like a better way to me because neither capitalism or socialism work by themselves.


'Extreme Socialist' Labour? I don't know mate. Having the public benefit from publically paid for assets really isn't that radical when looked at objectively. What's extreme is having foreign states benefit from our publicly paid for assets. Like Germany, France, Italy and Holland do from our railways. And, like you stated, our Royal Mail going for a song and then the profits whisked away. Theft, basically.

Yet when someone speaks against this practice it's to the backdrop of 'Communist', as if there's going to be immediate erection of guntowers to accompany any nationalisation.

I'm no dyed in the wool Corbynista. I happen to think democracy is an illusion. What I do think is though is that a party that wants national assets to benefit the nation is a danger to the bottom line of private hands. I also think that a party with a leader who won't sell armaments de facto like the Tories are doing to the Saudis is a danger to the bottom line.

I also think that the main reason for the whole antisemitic media bombardment was that the private hands that do very nicely out of our country are getting desperate. Because Corbyn, like him or not, is bad for the bottom line. And that's the only thing the parasites that really run the show give any f*ck about.
[Post edited 25 Sep 2018 21:57]

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McDonnell at the Labour conference on 04:07 - Sep 26 with 1331 viewsPozuelosSideys

McDonnell at the Labour conference on 21:52 - Sep 25 by Jack_Meoff

'Extreme Socialist' Labour? I don't know mate. Having the public benefit from publically paid for assets really isn't that radical when looked at objectively. What's extreme is having foreign states benefit from our publicly paid for assets. Like Germany, France, Italy and Holland do from our railways. And, like you stated, our Royal Mail going for a song and then the profits whisked away. Theft, basically.

Yet when someone speaks against this practice it's to the backdrop of 'Communist', as if there's going to be immediate erection of guntowers to accompany any nationalisation.

I'm no dyed in the wool Corbynista. I happen to think democracy is an illusion. What I do think is though is that a party that wants national assets to benefit the nation is a danger to the bottom line of private hands. I also think that a party with a leader who won't sell armaments de facto like the Tories are doing to the Saudis is a danger to the bottom line.

I also think that the main reason for the whole antisemitic media bombardment was that the private hands that do very nicely out of our country are getting desperate. Because Corbyn, like him or not, is bad for the bottom line. And that's the only thing the parasites that really run the show give any f*ck about.
[Post edited 25 Sep 2018 21:57]


Mate, im suprised at you. If ever you needed an indication of what Corbyn (and moreso, McDonnell) are capable of and intend for the UK, then their latest crackpot idea of taking 10% of all companies with over 250 employees in the UK is it.

THAT is theft. It is very much Communist. Corbyn is a stooge. Hes the puppet who is being wheeled out like a senile grandad whilst McDonell, Mcluskey and Momentum pull the strings. Be afraid. Be very, very afraid.

While we are at it, McDonell was actually sacked for setting an illegal (yes, illegal) budget by Livingstone while he was mayor of London.

Apparently, McD is able to renationlise the trains for free.. or so he says. Yet those who are actually able to use a calculator cost it at around £176 billion. So either he is lying or he genuinely does not have a clue.

These people are not driven by a desire to help the poor. They are driven by their hatred of the rich and the private sector. Very different things.

As for the Royal Mail stitch up and the sale of public assets - couldnt agree more.

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McDonnell at the Labour conference on 09:46 - Sep 26 with 1295 viewsCatullus

McDonnell at the Labour conference on 21:52 - Sep 25 by Jack_Meoff

'Extreme Socialist' Labour? I don't know mate. Having the public benefit from publically paid for assets really isn't that radical when looked at objectively. What's extreme is having foreign states benefit from our publicly paid for assets. Like Germany, France, Italy and Holland do from our railways. And, like you stated, our Royal Mail going for a song and then the profits whisked away. Theft, basically.

Yet when someone speaks against this practice it's to the backdrop of 'Communist', as if there's going to be immediate erection of guntowers to accompany any nationalisation.

I'm no dyed in the wool Corbynista. I happen to think democracy is an illusion. What I do think is though is that a party that wants national assets to benefit the nation is a danger to the bottom line of private hands. I also think that a party with a leader who won't sell armaments de facto like the Tories are doing to the Saudis is a danger to the bottom line.

I also think that the main reason for the whole antisemitic media bombardment was that the private hands that do very nicely out of our country are getting desperate. Because Corbyn, like him or not, is bad for the bottom line. And that's the only thing the parasites that really run the show give any f*ck about.
[Post edited 25 Sep 2018 21:57]


We know Corbyn is a friend of Maduro and a fan of what's happened in Venezuela despite it being a disaster for the population. Venezuelans are fleeing the country by the tens of thousand. That's a pretty extreme socialist ideal to follow and we know Corbyn is a fan of Marx too. Then there's Momentum, the tail that's wagging the dog, do we want a return to the 70's? Do we want mass strikes, rubbish left on the streets for weeks, hospitals running off batteries and using candles for lighting?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1525089/Decade-that-dimmed-the-strike-hit-Seven

Then the "Winter of discontent" and Thatcher came, many still moan about Thatcher and maybe she went too far, or maybe the unions did. The truth is somewhere in the middle, as usual but people were dying, we had a 3 day week, there was a major health risk nationally as rubbish piled up.
I guess we were lucky in my house (or I was) because I spent my spare time over the field with my mates, not on any electrical gadget because we didn't have them and we still had coal fires so we didn't go cold. Until 1973 I was having a bath in big iron tub in front of the coal fire then making toast with a toasting fork in front of the same fire, wrapped in a towel to dry off.
Imagine what a national strike would do today. No central heating to start with, imagine another winter of discontent if we change the laws on Unions back to the 70's?
Corbyn and Momentum aren't the way forward.
I said it before, we need to change the rules for management, make managers legally reponsible for decisions, put employee welfare at the forefront of rules and (one area where I feel strongly which businesses wouldn't like) is to restrict how much profit any company can take in share dividends. We need to ensure profit is reinvested in businesses, sustaining and creating. No company that makes massive profits should be legally allowed to cut jobs just to make more profit for shareholders. The law on pensions needs changing too, there should be no such things as a pension fund being overfunded. Under Blair the law said, and I could be wrong and hope someone will put me right if so, a pension fund couldn't have more than a certain amount of funding, if it was in the black too much the government would take it. They took billions out of the Royal Mail fund which effectively caused it's bankruptcy when the markets went south.
Shouldn't pension funds be allowed to increase as far as they can and pensioners see the benefit? Imagine that, a pension fund being run for the benefit of retired workers?
Instead the incoming Tory government had to bail out Royal Mails pension, take over it's liabilities and responsibilities, those liabilities were said to be 35 billion!

http://obr.uk/box/implications-of-transferring-the-historic-deficit-of-royal-mai

Imagine if the state pension wasn't such a concern because massive profits were used to create well funded pension schemes and one day we didn't need a state pension. Imagine the workers getting a fair shake in retirement?

Turning the clock back isn't the way, we need progression not recession.

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
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McDonnell at the Labour conference on 10:14 - Sep 26 with 1279 viewscontroversial_jack

McDonnell at the Labour conference on 09:46 - Sep 26 by Catullus

We know Corbyn is a friend of Maduro and a fan of what's happened in Venezuela despite it being a disaster for the population. Venezuelans are fleeing the country by the tens of thousand. That's a pretty extreme socialist ideal to follow and we know Corbyn is a fan of Marx too. Then there's Momentum, the tail that's wagging the dog, do we want a return to the 70's? Do we want mass strikes, rubbish left on the streets for weeks, hospitals running off batteries and using candles for lighting?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1525089/Decade-that-dimmed-the-strike-hit-Seven

Then the "Winter of discontent" and Thatcher came, many still moan about Thatcher and maybe she went too far, or maybe the unions did. The truth is somewhere in the middle, as usual but people were dying, we had a 3 day week, there was a major health risk nationally as rubbish piled up.
I guess we were lucky in my house (or I was) because I spent my spare time over the field with my mates, not on any electrical gadget because we didn't have them and we still had coal fires so we didn't go cold. Until 1973 I was having a bath in big iron tub in front of the coal fire then making toast with a toasting fork in front of the same fire, wrapped in a towel to dry off.
Imagine what a national strike would do today. No central heating to start with, imagine another winter of discontent if we change the laws on Unions back to the 70's?
Corbyn and Momentum aren't the way forward.
I said it before, we need to change the rules for management, make managers legally reponsible for decisions, put employee welfare at the forefront of rules and (one area where I feel strongly which businesses wouldn't like) is to restrict how much profit any company can take in share dividends. We need to ensure profit is reinvested in businesses, sustaining and creating. No company that makes massive profits should be legally allowed to cut jobs just to make more profit for shareholders. The law on pensions needs changing too, there should be no such things as a pension fund being overfunded. Under Blair the law said, and I could be wrong and hope someone will put me right if so, a pension fund couldn't have more than a certain amount of funding, if it was in the black too much the government would take it. They took billions out of the Royal Mail fund which effectively caused it's bankruptcy when the markets went south.
Shouldn't pension funds be allowed to increase as far as they can and pensioners see the benefit? Imagine that, a pension fund being run for the benefit of retired workers?
Instead the incoming Tory government had to bail out Royal Mails pension, take over it's liabilities and responsibilities, those liabilities were said to be 35 billion!

http://obr.uk/box/implications-of-transferring-the-historic-deficit-of-royal-mai

Imagine if the state pension wasn't such a concern because massive profits were used to create well funded pension schemes and one day we didn't need a state pension. Imagine the workers getting a fair shake in retirement?

Turning the clock back isn't the way, we need progression not recession.


Venezuela is not a disaster because of it's socialist policies, but because of the attempted coup by the right wing, the big corps and the backing of certain outside nations.You need to read up on this, mate

Quoting the 70s as being a terrible era is simply not true, certain events did happen, but on the whole the 70s were prosperous and egalitarian -the gap between rich and poor was at it's narrowest ever during 78. During the 70s ppl had work, many could afford a mortgage, and had decent pensions, what have we got today to compare? The 70s also had great music, not so the fashions though.
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McDonnell at the Labour conference on 10:23 - Sep 26 with 1277 viewsShaky

You're wrong, Wayne

The claim is that water prices have risen by 40% in **real terms** since privatisation which means after the effects of inflation.

Furthermore, the effect of compounding means you can't just divide 40% by 25 years to get the average annual real increase. There's a formula. . .

Other than that McDonnell is right. Thatcher's privatisation schemes were only really successful in transferring state assets primarily to her natural voters at knock down prices.

the value for money promised has largely failed ot materialise with prices generally having risen well beyond inflation, while certain industries like electricity generation have become casebook studies in malinvestment.

However, there are numerous piecemeal changes that could be made via the regulatory structure to make these privatised businesses more geared to providing public services.

Far more sensible to try that rather than announce these revolutionary changes that Team Corbyn is so fond of. They really do need to grow up, or else vacate the premises and let the grown-ups take back control.
[Post edited 26 Sep 2018 10:37]

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McDonnell at the Labour conference on 10:35 - Sep 26 with 1269 viewsCatullus

McDonnell at the Labour conference on 10:14 - Sep 26 by controversial_jack

Venezuela is not a disaster because of it's socialist policies, but because of the attempted coup by the right wing, the big corps and the backing of certain outside nations.You need to read up on this, mate

Quoting the 70s as being a terrible era is simply not true, certain events did happen, but on the whole the 70s were prosperous and egalitarian -the gap between rich and poor was at it's narrowest ever during 78. During the 70s ppl had work, many could afford a mortgage, and had decent pensions, what have we got today to compare? The 70s also had great music, not so the fashions though.


I have read about it,

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/oct/11/venezuela-on-the-brink-a-journey-t

Even a left wing paper says it's the governments policy that's causing the problems. Of course the coup happened in March this year and the problems have been there for much longer, going back almost to when Chavez took over in 1999. The crisis really started to hit home in 2014 though,

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-36319877

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
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McDonnell at the Labour conference on 10:52 - Sep 26 with 1257 viewscontroversial_jack

McDonnell at the Labour conference on 10:35 - Sep 26 by Catullus

I have read about it,

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/oct/11/venezuela-on-the-brink-a-journey-t

Even a left wing paper says it's the governments policy that's causing the problems. Of course the coup happened in March this year and the problems have been there for much longer, going back almost to when Chavez took over in 1999. The crisis really started to hit home in 2014 though,

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-36319877


No, this is what the Guardian says
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/mar/20/venezuela-revolt-truth-not
1
McDonnell at the Labour conference on 11:22 - Sep 26 with 1235 viewsbluey_the_blue

McDonnell at the Labour conference on 10:52 - Sep 26 by controversial_jack

No, this is what the Guardian says
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/mar/20/venezuela-revolt-truth-not


No, that's what an *opinion* piece in the Guardian says. An *opinion* piece by someone who co-wrote an Oliver Stone documentary.

It's akin to citing Owen Jones pieces as news items.
1
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McDonnell at the Labour conference on 11:25 - Sep 26 with 1233 viewswaynekerr55

McDonnell at the Labour conference on 10:23 - Sep 26 by Shaky

You're wrong, Wayne

The claim is that water prices have risen by 40% in **real terms** since privatisation which means after the effects of inflation.

Furthermore, the effect of compounding means you can't just divide 40% by 25 years to get the average annual real increase. There's a formula. . .

Other than that McDonnell is right. Thatcher's privatisation schemes were only really successful in transferring state assets primarily to her natural voters at knock down prices.

the value for money promised has largely failed ot materialise with prices generally having risen well beyond inflation, while certain industries like electricity generation have become casebook studies in malinvestment.

However, there are numerous piecemeal changes that could be made via the regulatory structure to make these privatised businesses more geared to providing public services.

Far more sensible to try that rather than announce these revolutionary changes that Team Corbyn is so fond of. They really do need to grow up, or else vacate the premises and let the grown-ups take back control.
[Post edited 26 Sep 2018 10:37]


Hence my 'disclaimer' that it was lifted from Gideon's Standard.

But yes, I agree. Then again it could be argued that we get the politics we deserve, no matter what our leanings be

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McDonnell at the Labour conference on 11:26 - Sep 26 with 1231 viewscontroversial_jack

McDonnell at the Labour conference on 11:22 - Sep 26 by bluey_the_blue

No, that's what an *opinion* piece in the Guardian says. An *opinion* piece by someone who co-wrote an Oliver Stone documentary.

It's akin to citing Owen Jones pieces as news items.


It's an article by a journo
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McDonnell at the Labour conference on 11:27 - Sep 26 with 1230 viewswaynekerr55

McDonnell at the Labour conference on 11:22 - Sep 26 by bluey_the_blue

No, that's what an *opinion* piece in the Guardian says. An *opinion* piece by someone who co-wrote an Oliver Stone documentary.

It's akin to citing Owen Jones pieces as news items.


Genuine question here. What does Owen Jones do? Other than grind my gears and annoy me!

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McDonnell at the Labour conference on 11:51 - Sep 26 with 1223 viewsJoe_bradshaw

McDonnell at the Labour conference on 11:22 - Sep 26 by bluey_the_blue

No, that's what an *opinion* piece in the Guardian says. An *opinion* piece by someone who co-wrote an Oliver Stone documentary.

It's akin to citing Owen Jones pieces as news items.


It’s also an opinion piece which is four and a half years old.

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McDonnell at the Labour conference on 12:03 - Sep 26 with 1212 viewsbluey_the_blue

McDonnell at the Labour conference on 11:26 - Sep 26 by controversial_jack

It's an article by a journo


It's an opinion piece, hence handily tagged "opinion" by the Guardian.

Journalist?

Really?
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McDonnell at the Labour conference on 12:05 - Sep 26 with 1211 viewscontroversial_jack

McDonnell at the Labour conference on 11:51 - Sep 26 by Joe_bradshaw

It’s also an opinion piece which is four and a half years old.


Well, it has been going on for a while.Here's another from John Pilger, the finest journo of our times http://johnpilger.com/articles/the-struggle-of-venezuela-against-a-common-enemy
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McDonnell at the Labour conference on 13:38 - Sep 26 with 1183 viewsJoe_bradshaw

McDonnell at the Labour conference on 12:05 - Sep 26 by controversial_jack

Well, it has been going on for a while.Here's another from John Pilger, the finest journo of our times http://johnpilger.com/articles/the-struggle-of-venezuela-against-a-common-enemy


That one is three and a half years old. Things change and opinions change as a consequence.

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McDonnell at the Labour conference on 15:50 - Sep 26 with 1156 viewscontroversial_jack

McDonnell at the Labour conference on 13:38 - Sep 26 by Joe_bradshaw

That one is three and a half years old. Things change and opinions change as a consequence.


Causes don't though
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McDonnell at the Labour conference on 17:26 - Sep 26 with 1137 viewsCatullus

McDonnell at the Labour conference on 11:26 - Sep 26 by controversial_jack

It's an article by a journo


No, it's an article by Mark Weisbrot, a left wing American economist

https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2017/02/16/sell-ecuador-mark-weisbrot-i

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
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McDonnell at the Labour conference on 18:27 - Sep 26 with 1119 viewscontroversial_jack

McDonnell at the Labour conference on 17:26 - Sep 26 by Catullus

No, it's an article by Mark Weisbrot, a left wing American economist

https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2017/02/16/sell-ecuador-mark-weisbrot-i


Whatever, but it's a contrasting view
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McDonnell at the Labour conference on 19:37 - Sep 26 with 1106 viewsCatullus

McDonnell at the Labour conference on 18:27 - Sep 26 by controversial_jack

Whatever, but it's a contrasting view


No, it's an article by a left winger in support of a left wing government.

As long as we persist with following either left or right wings, we'll always be divided. Even so called centrists are left or right.
The right make the wealth gap larger then the left come in and attack the rich making them shut up shop so destroying wealth creation and making everyone poorer and hitting the poorest the hardest because we end up with things like "austerity" when the right get back into power.
Right or left, they have all failed the majority in this country for decades.

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
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McDonnell at the Labour conference on 19:43 - Sep 26 with 1101 viewscontroversial_jack

McDonnell at the Labour conference on 19:37 - Sep 26 by Catullus

No, it's an article by a left winger in support of a left wing government.

As long as we persist with following either left or right wings, we'll always be divided. Even so called centrists are left or right.
The right make the wealth gap larger then the left come in and attack the rich making them shut up shop so destroying wealth creation and making everyone poorer and hitting the poorest the hardest because we end up with things like "austerity" when the right get back into power.
Right or left, they have all failed the majority in this country for decades.


Therefore, anything else would be an article by a right winger in support of overthrowing the govt in favour of a right wing govt.
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McDonnell at the Labour conference on 21:14 - Sep 26 with 1078 viewsCatullus

McDonnell at the Labour conference on 19:43 - Sep 26 by controversial_jack

Therefore, anything else would be an article by a right winger in support of overthrowing the govt in favour of a right wing govt.


Ummmm, no. There could be an article by a centrist!! These days there are lots about who don't identify with left or right. I mean real centrists, not joking ones like Blair.

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
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McDonnell at the Labour conference on 22:36 - Sep 28 with 992 viewsJack_Meoff

McDonnell at the Labour conference on 04:07 - Sep 26 by PozuelosSideys

Mate, im suprised at you. If ever you needed an indication of what Corbyn (and moreso, McDonnell) are capable of and intend for the UK, then their latest crackpot idea of taking 10% of all companies with over 250 employees in the UK is it.

THAT is theft. It is very much Communist. Corbyn is a stooge. Hes the puppet who is being wheeled out like a senile grandad whilst McDonell, Mcluskey and Momentum pull the strings. Be afraid. Be very, very afraid.

While we are at it, McDonell was actually sacked for setting an illegal (yes, illegal) budget by Livingstone while he was mayor of London.

Apparently, McD is able to renationlise the trains for free.. or so he says. Yet those who are actually able to use a calculator cost it at around £176 billion. So either he is lying or he genuinely does not have a clue.

These people are not driven by a desire to help the poor. They are driven by their hatred of the rich and the private sector. Very different things.

As for the Royal Mail stitch up and the sale of public assets - couldnt agree more.


Fair cop Poz I'd posted before reading about McDonnell's 10% plan. My reply would have been different. I'll not really disagree there tbh. There's a difference between wanting to do something about tax avoiding/evading/exploitation by multinationals and their 'sweetheart' HMRC deals, and implementing a policy like this. With regard to the call of 'Communism' I was referring to the press fear mongering about nationalisation. The press were warning in the week about 'hardship' if the 'utilities were nationalised.'Hardship?' Have we all been in a coma for the last seven years to not laugh at this sh*te?

With regard to the train renationalisation what kills me is that the media concentration is on the fact that someone has his sums wrong, not how much the privatisation of an asset has cost in the meantime. (I will concede that as Shadow Chancellor he should really get his sums right ... )

£176 billion to repurchase a once owned asset? That should be headline news surely? Without taking into accounts dividends paid in during the last 30+ years. It's deliberate policy - get the public pay for an asset then sell it cheaply so private hands can benefit. The exact model that the 'Royal Mail' stitch up was based on. If it ain't broke...

Thieving, rotten, bastards. UK plc (scam) - money laundering the name of the game. I mean, the clue is the term 'National Debt.' The nation picks the debt up. Where oh where do the profits go? Answers on a postcard. A postcard perhaps to the Caymans, British Virgin Islands, Panama, Jersey or Guernsey. Etc, etc
[Post edited 28 Sep 2018 22:53]

If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face--forever.

0
McDonnell at the Labour conference on 22:46 - Sep 28 with 985 viewsJack_Meoff

McDonnell at the Labour conference on 09:46 - Sep 26 by Catullus

We know Corbyn is a friend of Maduro and a fan of what's happened in Venezuela despite it being a disaster for the population. Venezuelans are fleeing the country by the tens of thousand. That's a pretty extreme socialist ideal to follow and we know Corbyn is a fan of Marx too. Then there's Momentum, the tail that's wagging the dog, do we want a return to the 70's? Do we want mass strikes, rubbish left on the streets for weeks, hospitals running off batteries and using candles for lighting?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1525089/Decade-that-dimmed-the-strike-hit-Seven

Then the "Winter of discontent" and Thatcher came, many still moan about Thatcher and maybe she went too far, or maybe the unions did. The truth is somewhere in the middle, as usual but people were dying, we had a 3 day week, there was a major health risk nationally as rubbish piled up.
I guess we were lucky in my house (or I was) because I spent my spare time over the field with my mates, not on any electrical gadget because we didn't have them and we still had coal fires so we didn't go cold. Until 1973 I was having a bath in big iron tub in front of the coal fire then making toast with a toasting fork in front of the same fire, wrapped in a towel to dry off.
Imagine what a national strike would do today. No central heating to start with, imagine another winter of discontent if we change the laws on Unions back to the 70's?
Corbyn and Momentum aren't the way forward.
I said it before, we need to change the rules for management, make managers legally reponsible for decisions, put employee welfare at the forefront of rules and (one area where I feel strongly which businesses wouldn't like) is to restrict how much profit any company can take in share dividends. We need to ensure profit is reinvested in businesses, sustaining and creating. No company that makes massive profits should be legally allowed to cut jobs just to make more profit for shareholders. The law on pensions needs changing too, there should be no such things as a pension fund being overfunded. Under Blair the law said, and I could be wrong and hope someone will put me right if so, a pension fund couldn't have more than a certain amount of funding, if it was in the black too much the government would take it. They took billions out of the Royal Mail fund which effectively caused it's bankruptcy when the markets went south.
Shouldn't pension funds be allowed to increase as far as they can and pensioners see the benefit? Imagine that, a pension fund being run for the benefit of retired workers?
Instead the incoming Tory government had to bail out Royal Mails pension, take over it's liabilities and responsibilities, those liabilities were said to be 35 billion!

http://obr.uk/box/implications-of-transferring-the-historic-deficit-of-royal-mai

Imagine if the state pension wasn't such a concern because massive profits were used to create well funded pension schemes and one day we didn't need a state pension. Imagine the workers getting a fair shake in retirement?

Turning the clock back isn't the way, we need progression not recession.


The Tories were more than happy to take on Royal Mail pension liabilities. Taken on means make the public pay for it. As they weren't profitable. It gets shoved on the 'National Debt' (who the f*ck would even notice these days) and all the profitable bits were privatised. Huzzah and large gins all round!

Progression indeed. Let's take the conversation a step further - I wonder whilst we exist in this debt based paradigm then we're essentially f*cked. No mathematical way out. We can argue the toss left/right/labour/tory/up/down/daddy/chips - unless we reform the way money works with regard to a nation's ability to function credit wise then we're basically circling the drain at greater or lesser speed.

If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face--forever.

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McDonnell at the Labour conference on 14:10 - Sep 29 with 929 viewsCatullus

McDonnell at the Labour conference on 22:46 - Sep 28 by Jack_Meoff

The Tories were more than happy to take on Royal Mail pension liabilities. Taken on means make the public pay for it. As they weren't profitable. It gets shoved on the 'National Debt' (who the f*ck would even notice these days) and all the profitable bits were privatised. Huzzah and large gins all round!

Progression indeed. Let's take the conversation a step further - I wonder whilst we exist in this debt based paradigm then we're essentially f*cked. No mathematical way out. We can argue the toss left/right/labour/tory/up/down/daddy/chips - unless we reform the way money works with regard to a nation's ability to function credit wise then we're basically circling the drain at greater or lesser speed.


The RM pensionscheme and RM itself are two seperate things. We can argue about the business losing money but it was Blair who sold it off and until he and Brown did their thing the pension scheme was well funded.
What you say about money, well money itself is the problem. Money is the tool used to keep the few in power and the many in thrall. Very communist sounding I know but it's true. The problem these days is how would you make the world work without money?
Adam Price wants to guarantee everyone a job...how does he pay for it? Maybe everyone should be guaranteed a job they can do for a minimum lifestyle and the higher up you rise the more perks you get? A postman gets 6 weeks off and two weeks abroad but a Brain surgeon gets 10 weeks off, 4 abroad.....but then reality strikes and you know the whole world would have to adopt it, we'd all have to have the same standards, the same laws and that'll never happen so we're stuck with things the way they are. Whatever scenario you come up with, you'd have to change the world. Before you can change the world, you have to change people or at east get them all to work in the same direction, you've more chance of having a breakfast chat with God!

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
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McDonnell at the Labour conference on 14:23 - Sep 29 with 917 viewstrampie

McDonnell at the Labour conference on 14:10 - Sep 29 by Catullus

The RM pensionscheme and RM itself are two seperate things. We can argue about the business losing money but it was Blair who sold it off and until he and Brown did their thing the pension scheme was well funded.
What you say about money, well money itself is the problem. Money is the tool used to keep the few in power and the many in thrall. Very communist sounding I know but it's true. The problem these days is how would you make the world work without money?
Adam Price wants to guarantee everyone a job...how does he pay for it? Maybe everyone should be guaranteed a job they can do for a minimum lifestyle and the higher up you rise the more perks you get? A postman gets 6 weeks off and two weeks abroad but a Brain surgeon gets 10 weeks off, 4 abroad.....but then reality strikes and you know the whole world would have to adopt it, we'd all have to have the same standards, the same laws and that'll never happen so we're stuck with things the way they are. Whatever scenario you come up with, you'd have to change the world. Before you can change the world, you have to change people or at east get them all to work in the same direction, you've more chance of having a breakfast chat with God!


Without reading Price's economic plan again it was guaranteeing a job for 18-24 year olds [who want a job and who have been unable to source a job for 90 days] as the cost in personal, economic and social costs is huge and no doubt would pay for these jobs.

Continually being banned by Planet Swans for Porthcawl and then being reinstated.
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