| How Americans see us 05:07 - Sep 28 with 4055 views | Glyn1 |
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/in-britain-even-children-are-feeling-the-e
But all of us know that there are failing towns all over the country. Walk from the train station to the Liberty and you'll know what I mean, but I also include Rotherham, Mansfield and so many more.
And we are "one of the wealthiest countries in the world". [Post edited 28 Sep 2018 5:12]
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| How Americans see us on 05:56 - Sep 28 with 2776 views | peenemunde |
40 plus years in the eu and the country is in a mess. |  | | |
| How Americans see us on 06:17 - Sep 28 with 2761 views | PawelAbbott |
| How Americans see us on 05:56 - Sep 28 by peenemunde |
40 plus years in the eu and the country is in a mess. |
The report states that on leaving the EU the situation will become worse. |  | | |
| How Americans see us on 06:33 - Sep 28 with 2753 views | peenemunde |
| How Americans see us on 06:17 - Sep 28 by PawelAbbott |
The report states that on leaving the EU the situation will become worse. |
Which we know is nonsense | | | |
| How Americans see us on 07:06 - Sep 28 with 2734 views | PawelAbbott |
| How Americans see us on 06:33 - Sep 28 by peenemunde |
Which we know is nonsense |
I can’t be bothered to reply about Brexit.
What I would say though is that, to blame the increased numbers of children on poverty on welfare cuts is a very short termed view.
The root of the problem is the incredible decline of industry in this country over the last 40 years. If there was more high paying jobs brought through an increase in the manufacturing and service industries we wouldn’t have so many people relying on benefits.
Just looked the enormou decline in the Swansea area over the years. Gone are the refineries, the factories, the BT presence and the Fords plants etc. To be replaced with a vast expansion of the university and a handful of call centres.
If people had better paying work they wouldn’t need to rely on welfare. | | | |
| How Americans see us on 08:44 - Sep 28 with 2671 views | ItchySphincter |
| How Americans see us on 07:06 - Sep 28 by PawelAbbott |
I can’t be bothered to reply about Brexit.
What I would say though is that, to blame the increased numbers of children on poverty on welfare cuts is a very short termed view.
The root of the problem is the incredible decline of industry in this country over the last 40 years. If there was more high paying jobs brought through an increase in the manufacturing and service industries we wouldn’t have so many people relying on benefits.
Just looked the enormou decline in the Swansea area over the years. Gone are the refineries, the factories, the BT presence and the Fords plants etc. To be replaced with a vast expansion of the university and a handful of call centres.
If people had better paying work they wouldn’t need to rely on welfare. |
....and the industry has gone as the result of privatisation. I don't think that can be blamed on the EU as plenty of EU countries still have heavy industry and manufacturing, they bought ours. In our lifetime, especially growing up in the late 70's and 80's, the country has been run by criminals. |  |
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| How Americans see us on 09:21 - Sep 28 with 2630 views | johnlangy |
| How Americans see us on 06:33 - Sep 28 by peenemunde |
Which we know is nonsense |
No we don't. | | | |
| How Americans see us on 09:45 - Sep 28 with 2606 views | LeonWasGod |
| How Americans see us on 05:56 - Sep 28 by peenemunde |
40 plus years in the eu and the country is in a mess. |
Quite right. Despite Osborne and successor's wide-reaching, progressive social programmes aimed at improving homelessness, child poverty, mental health support, social mobility of disabled and metal health sufferers, and real wage growth for the masses; we've found ourselves in a worse position because Donald Tusk keeps nipping over and stealing people's pocket money.  The b@stard. |  | | |
| How Americans see us on 10:05 - Sep 28 with 2585 views | Highjack |
| How Americans see us on 05:56 - Sep 28 by peenemunde |
40 plus years in the eu and the country is in a mess. |
People don’t realise that austerity across Europe since the financial crisis has been explicitly EU driven. If a countries debt goes above 60% or their deficit is above 3% of GDP then they face sanctions. The tories are often blamed for austerity and it certainly fits with their ideology but it actually started in 2009 when we committed to cuts in the police force and raise VAT in order to comply with EU rules. Think it’s called the Euro plus pact or something. It was the start of the famous “long term economic plan” to slash the defecit and everything is still being slashed to this day.
It never ceases to amaze me how people who are always railing against austerity are usually the ones unwavering in their support for the EU whose economic policy is as neoliberal and “Tory” as you can possibly get. |  |
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| How Americans see us on 10:11 - Sep 28 with 2576 views | Highjack |
| How Americans see us on 10:05 - Sep 28 by Highjack |
People don’t realise that austerity across Europe since the financial crisis has been explicitly EU driven. If a countries debt goes above 60% or their deficit is above 3% of GDP then they face sanctions. The tories are often blamed for austerity and it certainly fits with their ideology but it actually started in 2009 when we committed to cuts in the police force and raise VAT in order to comply with EU rules. Think it’s called the Euro plus pact or something. It was the start of the famous “long term economic plan” to slash the defecit and everything is still being slashed to this day.
It never ceases to amaze me how people who are always railing against austerity are usually the ones unwavering in their support for the EU whose economic policy is as neoliberal and “Tory” as you can possibly get. |
Here is an article from 2009 with every EU countries commitment to reduce spending:
https://www.europeaninstitute.org/index.php/112-european-affairs/special-g-20-is
U.K. - biggest spending cut in 60 years. 490,000 public sector jobs slashed. Welfare slashed. Vat raised. Police cut. Retirement age raised. Etc etc etc.
All of this has happened in the meantime and is continuing to happen and it’s because of EU rules. | |
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| How Americans see us on 10:46 - Sep 28 with 2528 views | controversial_jack |
| How Americans see us on 10:11 - Sep 28 by Highjack |
Here is an article from 2009 with every EU countries commitment to reduce spending:
https://www.europeaninstitute.org/index.php/112-european-affairs/special-g-20-is
U.K. - biggest spending cut in 60 years. 490,000 public sector jobs slashed. Welfare slashed. Vat raised. Police cut. Retirement age raised. Etc etc etc.
All of this has happened in the meantime and is continuing to happen and it’s because of EU rules. |
So, when we leave the EU austerity will cease? I'll remember this post a year or two down the line and remind you of it. | | | |
| How Americans see us on 11:19 - Sep 28 with 2506 views | Highjack |
| How Americans see us on 10:46 - Sep 28 by controversial_jack |
So, when we leave the EU austerity will cease? I'll remember this post a year or two down the line and remind you of it. |
I didn’t say it would cease, no doubt the tories have no qualms about implementing such policies. But the point is the issue of choice. If for example a corbyn government or any other government wanted to borrow to fund a radical investment in the nhs or a nationalisation project or house building etc and broke EU spending rules it would be likely we would face Eu sanctions and get punished for it. | |
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| How Americans see us on 11:20 - Sep 28 with 2501 views | Catullus |
| How Americans see us on 10:11 - Sep 28 by Highjack |
Here is an article from 2009 with every EU countries commitment to reduce spending:
https://www.europeaninstitute.org/index.php/112-european-affairs/special-g-20-is
U.K. - biggest spending cut in 60 years. 490,000 public sector jobs slashed. Welfare slashed. Vat raised. Police cut. Retirement age raised. Etc etc etc.
All of this has happened in the meantime and is continuing to happen and it’s because of EU rules. |
And as I posted elsewhere it's not explicit law that these things happen but our own politicians have used the EU as a useful idiot and taken cuts and privatisation beyond where they needed to go which, in my opinion has been for personal gain, be that gain in political standing, financial reward or both, like Tony Blair.
It's not all down to that though, the EU has given many companies subsidies and they move from the UK to Eastern European countries. The idea may be to improve economies there but at the same time it has worsened the economy here and it's a long term effect. EU rules are supposed to prevent these moves if they are for financial gain, eg, moving from UK to a country with a lower wage economy but still it happens and has been going on for over 10 years.
https://www.ft.com/content/74ab02a6-fd85-11df-a049-00144feab49a
I would love to know who in our governments past and present (including civil servants) has made money out of these moves.
Then another perspective is that our politicians are fully committed to Europe and wanted us so tied in that to leave would be a total disaster economically and we may or may not be at that point. When Brexit happens we will find out.
For 20 years our politicians have suspected the majority of us are Eurosceptic, Tony Blair certainly thought so which makes what has been going on even worse, our own governments operating in a way they believe to be against the country's wishes, against the majority wish.
So whether the EU is directly or indirectly responsible, it has been making this country worse.
Western Europe has been made worse so the Eastern Europe can catch up but the Eastern working classes haven't gained, all the profit has been taken by the rich.
Right there is the problem, unless you take.....literally take trillions off all the mega rich of the world and spend it on improving things at the lower end nothing will change. Even then you have to legislate for income, to say there is a maximum a mount of wealth you can have and that is extreme socialism, communism almost and that doesn't work because human nature drives people to want more, by fair means or foul.
I went to Moscow 20 years ago and met a very nice Russian fella who told me what life was like in the USSR and it was very Orwellian, some pigs certainly were more equal. At the same time Capitalism only increases the wealth of the few.
The only answer is to do away with money and restrict property ownership but even that wouldn't work....face it, we're screwed. There will always be have's and have nots and we are heading backwards, to Victoriana when we doffed our caps to our betters. Ok, that's an extreme version but unless we can find a better way, better than either left or right are offering then there isn't much hope of a better world.
Americans might see us a certain way but their country is no better. There are pop up cities where homeless people live, even people in work who live out of the back of their car. People who can't afford more than very basic medical insurance to who any cancer is a death sentence whereas here you at least have a chance. Predictably I suppose, under Trump it is getting worse, according to the UN anyway,
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/06/22/us/america-poverty-un-report/index.html
Though Trump would probably deny it or say it was the poors fault.......maybe he's going to build walls in concentric circles, one to keep immigrants out, one to keep the workshy out out, one for the workers to live inside and one to protect the rich who live in the ivory towers inside the biggest walls. | |
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| How Americans see us on 11:27 - Sep 28 with 2493 views | controversial_jack |
| How Americans see us on 11:19 - Sep 28 by Highjack |
I didn’t say it would cease, no doubt the tories have no qualms about implementing such policies. But the point is the issue of choice. If for example a corbyn government or any other government wanted to borrow to fund a radical investment in the nhs or a nationalisation project or house building etc and broke EU spending rules it would be likely we would face Eu sanctions and get punished for it. |
We are going to get punished when we leave | | | |
| How Americans see us on 11:31 - Sep 28 with 2487 views | peenemunde |
| How Americans see us on 09:21 - Sep 28 by johnlangy |
No we don't. |
You don’t because you are thick. | | | |
| How Americans see us on 11:57 - Sep 28 with 2458 views | Catullus |
| How Americans see us on 11:27 - Sep 28 by controversial_jack |
We are going to get punished when we leave |
That doesn't leave much of a choice if Corbyn is PM then. Stay in, have Corbyn bankrupt the country AND be punished by the EU, or leave and be punished by the EU.
In which case the lesser of two evils is just to leave. Lets face it, if Corbyn bankrupted us it would please any racist/xenophobe/little Englander because who'd want to come to a car crash country?
Of course anything is possible, we may yet strike a suitable deal with the EU and Corbyn may become PM and prove his brand of socialism can work.
I reckon there's more chance of the remain politicians managing to keep us in the EU but we'd become a shadow member, largely ignored by the others because our terms of membership were worse and the people of the UK aren't fully committed to membership and likely to choose leave again in the future.
One last thought, if the UK wasn't as important to the EU as some leavers claim, was as of little importance as some remainers claim, why haven't they just told us to do one and go to WTO rules?
Why do they keep saying we will keep trying right up until the last moment? If the EU really cared about us staying inside it's influence maybe it should have made more effort when Cameron went asking? Or did it think, like so many UK politicians that we would never choose leave and like Westminster was caught with it's pants down and doesn't want a no deal but it's ideology dictates it can't give us a good deal and even a fair deal is unlikely?
Hasn't history proved sticking rigidly to an ideology is just storing up problems. Even democratic ideologies are changed here and there.
The longer the farce goes on the more questions it raises, by farce I mean the mess politicians have made of it. | |
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| How Americans see us on 12:29 - Sep 28 with 2430 views | controversial_jack |
| How Americans see us on 11:57 - Sep 28 by Catullus |
That doesn't leave much of a choice if Corbyn is PM then. Stay in, have Corbyn bankrupt the country AND be punished by the EU, or leave and be punished by the EU.
In which case the lesser of two evils is just to leave. Lets face it, if Corbyn bankrupted us it would please any racist/xenophobe/little Englander because who'd want to come to a car crash country?
Of course anything is possible, we may yet strike a suitable deal with the EU and Corbyn may become PM and prove his brand of socialism can work.
I reckon there's more chance of the remain politicians managing to keep us in the EU but we'd become a shadow member, largely ignored by the others because our terms of membership were worse and the people of the UK aren't fully committed to membership and likely to choose leave again in the future.
One last thought, if the UK wasn't as important to the EU as some leavers claim, was as of little importance as some remainers claim, why haven't they just told us to do one and go to WTO rules?
Why do they keep saying we will keep trying right up until the last moment? If the EU really cared about us staying inside it's influence maybe it should have made more effort when Cameron went asking? Or did it think, like so many UK politicians that we would never choose leave and like Westminster was caught with it's pants down and doesn't want a no deal but it's ideology dictates it can't give us a good deal and even a fair deal is unlikely?
Hasn't history proved sticking rigidly to an ideology is just storing up problems. Even democratic ideologies are changed here and there.
The longer the farce goes on the more questions it raises, by farce I mean the mess politicians have made of it. |
Austerity is a Tory policy of choice, it is not one of Labours, don't go blaming the EU for this | | | |
| How Americans see us on 12:45 - Sep 28 with 2404 views | Highjack |
| How Americans see us on 12:29 - Sep 28 by controversial_jack |
Austerity is a Tory policy of choice, it is not one of Labours, don't go blaming the EU for this |
It really isn’t. It was committed to in 2009 to comply with EU rules. It’s there in f*cking black and white. | |
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| How Americans see us on 12:50 - Sep 28 with 2397 views | Ebo |
| How Americans see us on 10:11 - Sep 28 by Highjack |
Here is an article from 2009 with every EU countries commitment to reduce spending:
https://www.europeaninstitute.org/index.php/112-european-affairs/special-g-20-is
U.K. - biggest spending cut in 60 years. 490,000 public sector jobs slashed. Welfare slashed. Vat raised. Police cut. Retirement age raised. Etc etc etc.
All of this has happened in the meantime and is continuing to happen and it’s because of EU rules. |
Now this is proof that you really are an idiot. |  |
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| How Americans see us on 12:55 - Sep 28 with 2393 views | Catullus |
| How Americans see us on 12:29 - Sep 28 by controversial_jack |
Austerity is a Tory policy of choice, it is not one of Labours, don't go blaming the EU for this |
Where did I mention austerity let alone blame it on the EU? Though I suspect that what the EU forced on Greece was very much austerity.....or would you disagree?
I actually said the EU were useful idiots used as an excuse by our own politicians. | |
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| How Americans see us on 13:10 - Sep 28 with 2381 views | Highjack |
| How Americans see us on 12:50 - Sep 28 by Ebo |
Now this is proof that you really are an idiot. |
Would you like to expand on that and explain why or are you just going to throw an insult and run away like a child? | |
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| How Americans see us on 13:44 - Sep 28 with 2342 views | Uxbridge |
| How Americans see us on 12:45 - Sep 28 by Highjack |
It really isn’t. It was committed to in 2009 to comply with EU rules. It’s there in f*cking black and white. |
I'm not sure anyone seriously believes that the Tories slashed public expenditure in some sort of fear of punitive action from the EU. It's a bit silly IMO. |  |
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| How Americans see us on 14:28 - Sep 28 with 2284 views | Highjack |
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-45680430
Italy’s elected government have angered the EU by passing a budget. How f*cking dare they? And there’s another brilliant quote about “the markets” (praise be upon them) not liking it. | |
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| How Americans see us on 14:43 - Sep 28 with 2270 views | Dewi1jack |
| How Americans see us on 12:29 - Sep 28 by controversial_jack |
Austerity is a Tory policy of choice, it is not one of Labours, don't go blaming the EU for this |
Brown and Blair agreed to the EU terms we are seeing today with austerity
Really didn't think they were "Tory" Politicians.
My mistake. Sorry
In reality only 3/4 countries matter to the EU.
The countries paying the largest share to keep meaningless politicians and civil servants in work.
The countries subsidising the likes of Greece, Spain, Portugal,Italy and some of the new members to stop their economies crashing.
Once the other politicians have to go to their voters and explain why they are having to pay more taxes to cover such countries then there may be a mass exodus.
That may lead to a really free, equal trade throughout the World. No one knows for sure either way
One of those countries is leaving.
EU are not happy bunnies as it could lead to others wanting the same.
Personally I'd put all the Worlds politicians on Christmas Island and let them rule from there.
We'll send food parcels weekly  |  |
| If you wake up breathing, thats a good start to your day and you'll make many thousands of people envious. |
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| How Americans see us on 14:46 - Sep 28 with 2265 views | westside |
When you walk from the train station to the liberty you can see a refurbished train station, high st urban village, uwtsd business faculty, dyfatty flats refurbished, hafod houses refurbished, new Morfa road bypass, st davids student flats, new homes along the river, new train depot, copperworks being turned into a museum, copper quarter flats, liberty stadium, Morfa retail park, new bus lanes and bus stops, park and ride, etc so it's hardly the bronx |  | | |
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