| Youth Set Up 03:12 - Oct 3 with 4445 views | Swan91 |
genuine question. I remember before when we were in the PL, many complained that the youth set up was a waste of money and we didn't produce anyone good since the likes of Ben Davies and Joe Allen. I personally said that it is a long term thing and we weren't going to see short term results.
looking at our squads in the CH so far I believe there have been around 7 players who have featured for us who came from our youth set up (if anyone has the exact figure let me know). and most of them have showed to be good solid players for us at an early age.
This has helped us also get back to the "Swansea way" of playing because these youngsters were still playing that way even though the main squad lost its way for a while.
These youngsters are still young with lots of potential that could only grow with our winning way and many game time and who knows, could step up to the PL if we get promoted in the next couple of seasons.
So people who complained before, do you think the money going into the youth set up was worth it? |  | | |  |
| Youth Set Up on 07:01 - Oct 3 with 4352 views | Dr_Winston |
The people bitching about the youth setup previously were idiots typical of the demanding, want everything now mindset.
Firstly, the Academy has only really been in place for about five years. Takes a lot longer than that to consistently start producing players of a league standard, let alone Premier League quality every season like they wanted. Of course, a club can still produce players without an Academy as we did with Davies and Allen, but as is so often overlooked, they were the first two in about 20 years. Eventually we should produce more of them more often with a decent setup. To see how the Academy has already improved matters just look at how many of our products are now playing League football as opposed to LOW or non-league. The standard is rising but as you say, it doesn't happen overnight.
Secondly, we've spent most of that time fighting against relegation, and managers will obviously be reluctant to give young players a game in that situation. The likes of Roberts and Rodon would not be getting the game time they are now if we were still up against it in the PL. Now we're not Potter can give them a chance and they're thriving.
I will say that perhaps the focus of the u23 team has been a bit off, and too many players who were never going to get into the first team were here too long, like Kenji Gorre, but you could counter that by saying a competitive youth team playing against better quality opposition has better prepared Rodon and co for the games they're getting now. |  |
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| Youth Set Up on 21:16 - Oct 3 with 4155 views | awayjack |
Not heard many fans complain about the youth / academy set up?
Not sure who the 7 players are in current squad? Rodon and Roberts are two that stand out.
Are you confusing our own youth development with players like Grimes, Byers, McBurnie etc that were bought from other clubs? I’ve heard a lot more gripes about money wasted on U23 players rather than developing local lads from other clubs that have failed - Rory Donnelly over Gwion Edwards for example. |  | | |
| Youth Set Up on 21:29 - Oct 3 with 4137 views | Loyal |
Always been a fan of the reserve sides and commented on them many times, the local products have been absolutely spot on and thanks to Richards and Toshack for that. Barnsley missed a huge trick not appointing Cameron. The recruitment of players like Grimes, who let's be honest was a spectacular failure until this season and McBurnie etc.. Are products of a poor scouting network that somehow has come good. And how?
This is a football post nothing more, so as it was Jenkins who took the flak for the scouting shambles for 3 years I will now say the success of those players is down to him. He authorised them coming, most certainly had a say in them remaining and Baker Richardson etc.. Clearly was spotted by him when he played for Coventry.
Move everything to one side and you have to say he deserves some credit. Yes, he does its in front of us and clearly to see. Some would even say thank fck he did preside over this - because had he not this season would have been a fcking nightmare. |  |
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| Youth Set Up on 21:30 - Oct 3 with 4135 views | jasper_T |
From our own youth setup:
- Connor Roberts
- Joe Rodon
- Brandon Cooper (Cup)
- Liam Cullen (Cup) (Sub)
Played with the U18s
- Dan James (Hull's academy)
Played with the U23s
- Ollie McBurnie (Bradford)
- Cian Harries (Coventry) (Cup)
- Jay Fulton (Falkirk)
- George Byers (Watford)
- Courtney Baker-Richardson (Coventry released to non-league)
- Tyler Reid (Man Utd) (Cup) (Sub) | | | |
| Youth Set Up on 21:52 - Oct 3 with 4083 views | _ |
| Youth Set Up on 21:29 - Oct 3 by Loyal |
Always been a fan of the reserve sides and commented on them many times, the local products have been absolutely spot on and thanks to Richards and Toshack for that. Barnsley missed a huge trick not appointing Cameron. The recruitment of players like Grimes, who let's be honest was a spectacular failure until this season and McBurnie etc.. Are products of a poor scouting network that somehow has come good. And how?
This is a football post nothing more, so as it was Jenkins who took the flak for the scouting shambles for 3 years I will now say the success of those players is down to him. He authorised them coming, most certainly had a say in them remaining and Baker Richardson etc.. Clearly was spotted by him when he played for Coventry.
Move everything to one side and you have to say he deserves some credit. Yes, he does its in front of us and clearly to see. Some would even say thank fck he did preside over this - because had he not this season would have been a fcking nightmare. |
Some have been trying to drum that into people like you for months
Good post.
(wasn't a funny one though was it?) 😉 |  |
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| Youth Set Up on 22:15 - Oct 3 with 4051 views | majorraglan |
Developing youth players takes time and in my opinion is the one area the club should not cut back, this is where the focus should be. It’s not a short term fix, it takes time but if the club gets it right then the benefits will be very rewarding.
We had a recession in the 80’s and one of the first areas that got hit was training and apprenticeships, when we came out the other end there was a big skills shortage.
Developing players for the PL is a real challenge even for clubs like Man City, Arsenal and Chelsea, they have worldwide scouting networks picking off the cream from around Europe and the world. People who think Swansea are just going to open an academy and turn out a team of PL players are deluded. The club is developing some solid youngsters who will make a living in the game at various levels and 1 or 2 may go on to become PL players, but it’s not guaranteed. The lower the level the more players the club will turn out. What is apparent is that the academy has turned out quite a few youngsters who are currently giving a good account of themselves in the league; that is a good reflection on the academy. Toshack jr et al have done a good job so far.
If I were K and L I would be investing more money in the academy, the wages of 1 good quality championship player on £10k per week would go a long way in the academy. When it comes to the academy, the club should be hiring the best coaching talent it can afford. | | | |
| Youth Set Up on 03:03 - Oct 4 with 3936 views | Loyal |
| Youth Set Up on 21:52 - Oct 3 by _ |
Some have been trying to drum that into people like you for months
Good post.
(wasn't a funny one though was it?) 😉 |
Never seen you down Landore mate, so I'm not sure you can comment 😉
I always give credit where it is due, and have always held this belief regards our reserves and have been hounded by many as a result of stating it for years.
I just don't forgive cnts who cheat for their own gain.
As I said this is a football post. | |
| Nolan sympathiser, clout expert, personal friend of Leigh Dineen, advocate and enforcer of porridge swallows.
The official inventor of the tit w@nk. | | Poll: | Who should be Swansea number 1 |
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| Youth Set Up on 06:48 - Oct 4 with 3888 views | Dr_Winston |
| Youth Set Up on 21:29 - Oct 3 by Loyal |
Always been a fan of the reserve sides and commented on them many times, the local products have been absolutely spot on and thanks to Richards and Toshack for that. Barnsley missed a huge trick not appointing Cameron. The recruitment of players like Grimes, who let's be honest was a spectacular failure until this season and McBurnie etc.. Are products of a poor scouting network that somehow has come good. And how?
This is a football post nothing more, so as it was Jenkins who took the flak for the scouting shambles for 3 years I will now say the success of those players is down to him. He authorised them coming, most certainly had a say in them remaining and Baker Richardson etc.. Clearly was spotted by him when he played for Coventry.
Move everything to one side and you have to say he deserves some credit. Yes, he does its in front of us and clearly to see. Some would even say thank fck he did preside over this - because had he not this season would have been a fcking nightmare. |
Theory works if you subscribe to the belief that we paid £2m for Matt Grimes just in case we got relegated. We signed these players in the hope that they'd become Premier League quality.
The previous scouting network hasn't become justified. The team has dropped to a level where some of their acquisitions are finally of use. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Youth Set Up on 07:33 - Oct 4 with 3857 views | TailGunner |
The old Centre of excellence churned out decent players without the investment also.
Allen
B Davies
Marley Watkins
Emyr Huws
Shaun Mac
Kris O'Leary
Gwion Edwards
Jazz Richards.
Joe and Connor also started in the excellence. As did B Cooper, and the majority of emerging 16s and 18s.
No facilities then, but professional standard players still emerged. As stated plenty of ours were bought in.
I believe the quality of coach is more important than facilities. Although state of the art of course is preferred over the Elba, Ashleigh rd etc. | | | |
| Youth Set Up on 11:04 - Oct 4 with 3742 views | jasper_T |
| Youth Set Up on 07:33 - Oct 4 by TailGunner |
The old Centre of excellence churned out decent players without the investment also.
Allen
B Davies
Marley Watkins
Emyr Huws
Shaun Mac
Kris O'Leary
Gwion Edwards
Jazz Richards.
Joe and Connor also started in the excellence. As did B Cooper, and the majority of emerging 16s and 18s.
No facilities then, but professional standard players still emerged. As stated plenty of ours were bought in.
I believe the quality of coach is more important than facilities. Although state of the art of course is preferred over the Elba, Ashleigh rd etc. |
Imagine how good the current u11s are going to be when they're all grown up, then.
Or will someone jump through hoops to credit the old C of E for them, too? | | | |
| Youth Set Up on 11:04 - Oct 4 with 3742 views | Loyal |
| Youth Set Up on 06:48 - Oct 4 by Dr_Winston |
Theory works if you subscribe to the belief that we paid £2m for Matt Grimes just in case we got relegated. We signed these players in the hope that they'd become Premier League quality.
The previous scouting network hasn't become justified. The team has dropped to a level where some of their acquisitions are finally of use. |
As I stated I agree, it was a shambles but in amongst it Beaky either luckily or with a bit of foresight got us through it. Fair play and credit to him, however he deemed that his job and I expect him to do it. A million for Mcburnie as well.
I would expect he felt his 7 million reward for selling out was justified due to the money he has brought in before the absolute total failures of Ayews, Bony, Bastin, Spiv bloke etc...
And of course I reckon he was instrumental in the Potter recruitment although anyone believe the rumour Potter actually contacted Huw first off? | |
| Nolan sympathiser, clout expert, personal friend of Leigh Dineen, advocate and enforcer of porridge swallows.
The official inventor of the tit w@nk. | | Poll: | Who should be Swansea number 1 |
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| Youth Set Up on 11:12 - Oct 4 with 3728 views | jasper_T |
| Youth Set Up on 06:48 - Oct 4 by Dr_Winston |
Theory works if you subscribe to the belief that we paid £2m for Matt Grimes just in case we got relegated. We signed these players in the hope that they'd become Premier League quality.
The previous scouting network hasn't become justified. The team has dropped to a level where some of their acquisitions are finally of use. |
Matt Grimes was never integrated into the u23s setup. I honestly don't remember him even playing for them. Maybe once or twice? Probably got as many PL appearances.
There's a difference between the experienced young players we spent millions on for the PL (Grimes, Barrow) and those we brought in fresh from other academies on frees etc. (Byers, Reid) to bolster the development ranks. And there's a wide range in between (none of the Scots were cheap) who came in at various stages of their development.
No one subscribes to the belief that every young player was bought for the same specific purpose. | | | |
| Youth Set Up on 11:28 - Oct 4 with 3690 views | TailGunner |
| Youth Set Up on 11:04 - Oct 4 by jasper_T |
Imagine how good the current u11s are going to be when they're all grown up, then.
Or will someone jump through hoops to credit the old C of E for them, too? |
Depends who is coaching them...
Just putting a bit of balance out there.
The youth set up was productive under ridiculous circumstances before Academy status & facilities - you can ignore it if you wish | | | |
| Youth Set Up on 11:55 - Oct 4 with 3641 views | _ |
| Youth Set Up on 06:48 - Oct 4 by Dr_Winston |
Theory works if you subscribe to the belief that we paid £2m for Matt Grimes just in case we got relegated. We signed these players in the hope that they'd become Premier League quality.
The previous scouting network hasn't become justified. The team has dropped to a level where some of their acquisitions are finally of use. |
Fair play that's got to be one of the most pithy and pathetic comments I've read in a good while.
You seem to think a football club exists around it's first team and bringing in players who have or show potential is a waste of time.
Utter nonsense.
For one we were never guaranteed to stay in the EPL, we were always going to be on a knife edge being in there.
The careful and methodical acquisition of younger players who were clearly never bought to go straight into the first team is once again proving we do things differently and were a step above the rest.
This goes back to Martinez when his whole ethos was on a standard of football replicated throughout the age groups. Let's get them playing the right way, let them be technical, let them be capable of receiving a pass under pressure and recycle it quickly.
OK the first team got into the inevitable EPL trap but the club has kept to its DNA to coin Brendan and be a little bit corny.
McBurnie, Grimes, Fulton, Byers, Baker Richardson, these were all players who were never really brought in to challenge in the short term for the EPL, not unless they themselves proved otherwise, but it would've been a massive ask.
They were brought in to be developed and then anything can happen. They've always been a very carefully planned insurance policy as well. | |
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| Youth Set Up on 23:47 - Oct 4 with 3451 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Youth Set Up on 07:33 - Oct 4 by TailGunner |
The old Centre of excellence churned out decent players without the investment also.
Allen
B Davies
Marley Watkins
Emyr Huws
Shaun Mac
Kris O'Leary
Gwion Edwards
Jazz Richards.
Joe and Connor also started in the excellence. As did B Cooper, and the majority of emerging 16s and 18s.
No facilities then, but professional standard players still emerged. As stated plenty of ours were bought in.
I believe the quality of coach is more important than facilities. Although state of the art of course is preferred over the Elba, Ashleigh rd etc. |
You can’t argue with fact.
Spot on.
Our CoE regularly produced premier league and international standard players.
Our Money soaked Academy went missing in action when our club got relegated from the Premier League.
Thats the truth of the matter. |  |
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| Youth Set Up on 07:17 - Oct 5 with 3385 views | waynekerr55 |
I'd suggest that playing on cabbage patches once in a while would help players. Bear in mind most of them won't be playing on the carpets of the championship or the premier league |  |
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| Youth Set Up on 07:33 - Oct 5 with 3368 views | glanmorjak |
| Youth Set Up on 07:17 - Oct 5 by waynekerr55 |
I'd suggest that playing on cabbage patches once in a while would help players. Bear in mind most of them won't be playing on the carpets of the championship or the premier league |
Wayne,
as an experienced coach in youth football in years gone by what is your opinion of the academy's Head of Education Roy Thomas as a person to set the standards at the academy. | | | |
| Youth Set Up on 09:36 - Oct 5 with 3309 views | waynekerr55 |
| Youth Set Up on 07:33 - Oct 5 by glanmorjak |
Wayne,
as an experienced coach in youth football in years gone by what is your opinion of the academy's Head of Education Roy Thomas as a person to set the standards at the academy. |
Is he Head of Education? | |
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| Youth Set Up on 10:02 - Oct 5 with 3296 views | Catullus |
Academies are really quite ineffective in the EPL. The number of players moving up to regular first team football in the EPL is tiny as most clubs won't take a chance and try to buy in ready made, EPL ready players.
However, since relegation the academy has proved vital and without it we'd probably be screwed right now.
The odds of a kid getting through an academy to being a pro footballer are terrible, as it says in the link, you've more chance of being hit by a meteorite.
http://uk.businessinsider.com/michael-calvin-shocking-statistic-why-children-foo
Not to forget that even if you are the best players in an academy there are still very few opportunities but in the EPL there is another side to academies too, a darker side that all parents must think about
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/4938593/Football-academies-kicking-an | |
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| Youth Set Up on 10:10 - Oct 5 with 3286 views | theloneranger |
| Youth Set Up on 09:36 - Oct 5 by waynekerr55 |
Is he Head of Education? |
Roy Thomas is Head of Academy Coaching |  |
| Everyday above ground ... Is a good day! 😎 |
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| Youth Set Up on 10:05 - Oct 6 with 3101 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Youth Set Up on 10:02 - Oct 5 by Catullus |
Academies are really quite ineffective in the EPL. The number of players moving up to regular first team football in the EPL is tiny as most clubs won't take a chance and try to buy in ready made, EPL ready players.
However, since relegation the academy has proved vital and without it we'd probably be screwed right now.
The odds of a kid getting through an academy to being a pro footballer are terrible, as it says in the link, you've more chance of being hit by a meteorite.
http://uk.businessinsider.com/michael-calvin-shocking-statistic-why-children-foo
Not to forget that even if you are the best players in an academy there are still very few opportunities but in the EPL there is another side to academies too, a darker side that all parents must think about
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/4938593/Football-academies-kicking-an |
Why did our small club spend millions on it then if it does not work in PL ?
Spend that same money on players and we stay up ...?
And how do we afford the cash soaked Academy now that we have no money ?
It makes no sense. | |
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| Youth Set Up on 10:15 - Oct 6 with 3083 views | peenemunde |
| Youth Set Up on 10:05 - Oct 6 by Kilkennyjack |
Why did our small club spend millions on it then if it does not work in PL ?
Spend that same money on players and we stay up ...?
And how do we afford the cash soaked Academy now that we have no money ?
It makes no sense. |
It makes no sense to you because you are as thick as two short planks. 🤣 |  | | |
| Youth Set Up on 20:32 - Oct 7 with 2900 views | jasper_T |
| Youth Set Up on 10:05 - Oct 6 by Kilkennyjack |
Why did our small club spend millions on it then if it does not work in PL ?
Spend that same money on players and we stay up ...?
And how do we afford the cash soaked Academy now that we have no money ?
It makes no sense. |
We didn't get relegated due to a lack of spending money on players. Another Sam Clucas on the books wouldn't have done a damn thing to keep us up.
The money spent on the academy (players & facilities) was peanuts compared to what we wasted on senior players and agents over the last 7 years, a tiny portion of our monster PL income. | | | |
| Youth Set Up on 10:47 - Oct 8 with 2852 views | Catullus |
| Youth Set Up on 20:32 - Oct 7 by jasper_T |
We didn't get relegated due to a lack of spending money on players. Another Sam Clucas on the books wouldn't have done a damn thing to keep us up.
The money spent on the academy (players & facilities) was peanuts compared to what we wasted on senior players and agents over the last 7 years, a tiny portion of our monster PL income. |
100% agree. We spent over 7 million on agents last season...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/43635389
...more than the academy costs.
Though I said the academy was pretty worthless to us in the EPL in the Championship it is a vital asset. Spending 5 million on something that gives us 3/4/5 players of the right standard is much more cost effective than paying 5 million for one player and possibly as much in wages as 2/3/4 promoted academy players get.
It's to the EPL's shame that homegrown youngsters don't get a chance, they'd rather spend ridiculous amounts on foreign players. If homegrown players had their chances they would improve substantially and costs would be much lower. I don't think the way the EPL has gone is sustainable, one day the bubble will burst. | |
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