| FAO Plaid Cymru Nationalists 11:34 - Oct 5 with 15529 views | CopperJack |
Can someone explain something to me, please?
So, you want to leave our biggest market (the UK), on top of all the financial aid we get from England (infinitely more than from the EU, the south east of England basically bankrolls the UK), to join the EU and expatriate those powers to another foreign power in Brussels?
This post isn't meant to be inflammatory, I genuinely don't get it. Besides an irrational hatred of England, the stance of 'life isn't worth living outside of the EU', doesn't match with 'life isn't worth living inside the UK'. They're entirely contrary, in fact.
If you want independence, and be in charge of all our own rules, then fine, I get that, but then don't then gift all those powers to Brussels. If you're concerned with leaving the single market, why would you advocate leaving our BIGGEST market - not to mention the number of people who commute across the border. The EU isn't the land of milk and honey that the nationalists and media portray it, just look at youth unemployment across the EU - there are much bigger and wealthier countries with higher unemployment rates than us, because we're part of the UK.
It just strikes me as 'we're willing to take anything to stick it up the nasty English', but would love clarification on how these two stances aren't contrary. Thanks |  |
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| FAO Plaid Cymru Nationalists on 17:58 - Oct 7 with 1555 views | valleyboy |
| FAO Plaid Cymru Nationalists on 17:45 - Oct 7 by Kilkennyjack |
Do you think Welsh people are uniquely dull, and are unable to function without Westmonster ?
Thats what it sounds like.
Re-read what John has posted and educate yourself.
Giving welsh people responsibility for making decisions that impact Wales, and make those decisions in Wales. Thats normal.
We can save billions by cancelling Brexit and cancelling Trident. |
If you are dull enough to listen to John
That’s your problem
It doesn’t matter where Welsh companies pay their tax or come to that any company in the U.K.
All monies go into a big pot in the Treasury
Mind you a bill was passed in Parliament to allow the Welsh Assembly to raise certain taxes, but as of last week, a report came out from them saying they were still discussing the “Framework” of how these taxes could be raised
One thing you should be aware of, is the Welsh Assembly will now be ale raise your personal income tax rate and instead of paying something like 20 pence in the pound (£) for low earners that could go up to 22- 24 pence in the pound (£) | | | |
| FAO Plaid Cymru Nationalists on 18:00 - Oct 7 with 1555 views | yescomeon |
| FAO Plaid Cymru Nationalists on 17:31 - Oct 7 by valleyboy |
What has taxes got to do with the deficit
All taxes are paid into the treasury full stop
The deficit is a simple result of what Wales get from Westminster and what the Welsh Assembly spends
In other words Wales spent (for the last official figures produced) £15 billion more than what the got from central government
Whether Wales should get more money from Westminster is another matter
If they did, it would only be wasted on stupid projects has what has been done in the pasr |
You seem to be missing the fundamental point that what Wales gets from Westminster is not as much as revenue that an independent Wales would generate, because of the reasons discussed in many other threads and touched upon in this thread. So when calculating the deficit of an independent Wales, what Wales gets from Westminster is largely irrelevant. |  |
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| FAO Plaid Cymru Nationalists on 18:08 - Oct 7 with 1538 views | valleyboy |
| FAO Plaid Cymru Nationalists on 18:00 - Oct 7 by yescomeon |
You seem to be missing the fundamental point that what Wales gets from Westminster is not as much as revenue that an independent Wales would generate, because of the reasons discussed in many other threads and touched upon in this thread. So when calculating the deficit of an independent Wales, what Wales gets from Westminster is largely irrelevant. |
That is an assumption on your part in whether Wales can generate
The GDP of Wales is around the £60 billion mark
That is the total wealth created by the people of Wales
In the last figures published, the deficit was 25% of GDP
If that doesn’t give you some indication in what Wales would be up against if they had independence then nothing will | | | |
| FAO Plaid Cymru Nationalists on 18:48 - Oct 7 with 1512 views | yescomeon |
| FAO Plaid Cymru Nationalists on 18:08 - Oct 7 by valleyboy |
That is an assumption on your part in whether Wales can generate
The GDP of Wales is around the £60 billion mark
That is the total wealth created by the people of Wales
In the last figures published, the deficit was 25% of GDP
If that doesn’t give you some indication in what Wales would be up against if they had independence then nothing will |
If you only take into account the income tax that is raised in Wales then you are underestimating the Wales' tax income, and therefore overestimating the deficit (at least as much as I understand the deficit). What I haven't taken into account is that businesses may leave an independent Wales, but the could equally move to an independent Wales. But if you are an independent nation then you have far more power to make that happen than as a region of the UK, and that for me is the main argument for independence. Unless there was a dramatic rebalancing of power in the UK with Wales getting home rule.
On your last point you are right (although I can't seem to find that figure of 25% and have never seen a figure that high) and I don't think I've suggested that things will be easy. | |
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| FAO Plaid Cymru Nationalists on 19:40 - Oct 7 with 1492 views | valleyboy |
| FAO Plaid Cymru Nationalists on 18:48 - Oct 7 by yescomeon |
If you only take into account the income tax that is raised in Wales then you are underestimating the Wales' tax income, and therefore overestimating the deficit (at least as much as I understand the deficit). What I haven't taken into account is that businesses may leave an independent Wales, but the could equally move to an independent Wales. But if you are an independent nation then you have far more power to make that happen than as a region of the UK, and that for me is the main argument for independence. Unless there was a dramatic rebalancing of power in the UK with Wales getting home rule.
On your last point you are right (although I can't seem to find that figure of 25% and have never seen a figure that high) and I don't think I've suggested that things will be easy. |
Wales has a population of about 3 million
Out of those 3 million only about 1.345 million are in employment as of June of this year
Of that 1.345 million around about 21% hardly pays any tax at all
So only just over 1 million pay tax
In monetary terms it’s not that much | | | |
| FAO Plaid Cymru Nationalists on 19:53 - Oct 7 with 1483 views | valleyboy |
| FAO Plaid Cymru Nationalists on 18:48 - Oct 7 by yescomeon |
If you only take into account the income tax that is raised in Wales then you are underestimating the Wales' tax income, and therefore overestimating the deficit (at least as much as I understand the deficit). What I haven't taken into account is that businesses may leave an independent Wales, but the could equally move to an independent Wales. But if you are an independent nation then you have far more power to make that happen than as a region of the UK, and that for me is the main argument for independence. Unless there was a dramatic rebalancing of power in the UK with Wales getting home rule.
On your last point you are right (although I can't seem to find that figure of 25% and have never seen a figure that high) and I don't think I've suggested that things will be easy. |
As I wrote in a previous posting, the tax revenue is immaterial as all taxes raise goes to the Treasury
In the year that the last deficit figures were published (2015) the difference between the money Wales received from Westminster and the money spent by the Welsh Assembly showed a deficit of £14.7 billion
It’s as simple as that
The difference between what you get from Westminser and what the welsh Government spends
Remembering as well that all benefits paid to the people out of work because of sickness etc., does not come out of the grant received from Westminster | | | |
| FAO Plaid Cymru Nationalists on 19:54 - Oct 7 with 1483 views | Catullus |
| FAO Plaid Cymru Nationalists on 18:48 - Oct 7 by yescomeon |
If you only take into account the income tax that is raised in Wales then you are underestimating the Wales' tax income, and therefore overestimating the deficit (at least as much as I understand the deficit). What I haven't taken into account is that businesses may leave an independent Wales, but the could equally move to an independent Wales. But if you are an independent nation then you have far more power to make that happen than as a region of the UK, and that for me is the main argument for independence. Unless there was a dramatic rebalancing of power in the UK with Wales getting home rule.
On your last point you are right (although I can't seem to find that figure of 25% and have never seen a figure that high) and I don't think I've suggested that things will be easy. |
If Welsh GDP is 60 billion and the stated deficit is 15 billion then it is 25%.
If Wales chose independence there would be many problems and watching brexit unfold should give us that clue. We (the UK) aren't as closely tied to the EU as Wales is to the UK. Negotiating our withdrawal, sorting out a trade deal, it would be hard work. We would need a deal as we wouldn't automatically be members of the EU and it would take a while to sort that out. Wales could be stuck in limbo with only WTO rules to trade on, if that is bad for the UK and EU, how bad could that be for Wales?
Then there's the question of investment, where does Wales raise the money needed to build the infrastructure and invest in business that we are badly in need of? Even with our 5% of everything state owned we need billions on top, could we borrow it and how much interest will we pay? After all Wales doesn't have it's own credit rating so would anyone lend to us?
Interesting that today an SNP MP claimed they could push through independence without a referendum, if Corbyn got into Downing street this MP (Cherry) said the price of SNP support could be high, whatever that means. | |
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| FAO Plaid Cymru Nationalists on 20:03 - Oct 7 with 1480 views | yescomeon |
| FAO Plaid Cymru Nationalists on 19:53 - Oct 7 by valleyboy |
As I wrote in a previous posting, the tax revenue is immaterial as all taxes raise goes to the Treasury
In the year that the last deficit figures were published (2015) the difference between the money Wales received from Westminster and the money spent by the Welsh Assembly showed a deficit of £14.7 billion
It’s as simple as that
The difference between what you get from Westminser and what the welsh Government spends
Remembering as well that all benefits paid to the people out of work because of sickness etc., does not come out of the grant received from Westminster |
It doesn't matter. | |
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| FAO Plaid Cymru Nationalists on 20:03 - Oct 7 with 1479 views | peenemunde |
| FAO Plaid Cymru Nationalists on 19:54 - Oct 7 by Catullus |
If Welsh GDP is 60 billion and the stated deficit is 15 billion then it is 25%.
If Wales chose independence there would be many problems and watching brexit unfold should give us that clue. We (the UK) aren't as closely tied to the EU as Wales is to the UK. Negotiating our withdrawal, sorting out a trade deal, it would be hard work. We would need a deal as we wouldn't automatically be members of the EU and it would take a while to sort that out. Wales could be stuck in limbo with only WTO rules to trade on, if that is bad for the UK and EU, how bad could that be for Wales?
Then there's the question of investment, where does Wales raise the money needed to build the infrastructure and invest in business that we are badly in need of? Even with our 5% of everything state owned we need billions on top, could we borrow it and how much interest will we pay? After all Wales doesn't have it's own credit rating so would anyone lend to us?
Interesting that today an SNP MP claimed they could push through independence without a referendum, if Corbyn got into Downing street this MP (Cherry) said the price of SNP support could be high, whatever that means. |
Push through independence without a referendum 🤣
I’d like to see that attempted. |  | | |
| FAO Plaid Cymru Nationalists on 20:06 - Oct 7 with 1477 views | yescomeon |
| FAO Plaid Cymru Nationalists on 19:54 - Oct 7 by Catullus |
If Welsh GDP is 60 billion and the stated deficit is 15 billion then it is 25%.
If Wales chose independence there would be many problems and watching brexit unfold should give us that clue. We (the UK) aren't as closely tied to the EU as Wales is to the UK. Negotiating our withdrawal, sorting out a trade deal, it would be hard work. We would need a deal as we wouldn't automatically be members of the EU and it would take a while to sort that out. Wales could be stuck in limbo with only WTO rules to trade on, if that is bad for the UK and EU, how bad could that be for Wales?
Then there's the question of investment, where does Wales raise the money needed to build the infrastructure and invest in business that we are badly in need of? Even with our 5% of everything state owned we need billions on top, could we borrow it and how much interest will we pay? After all Wales doesn't have it's own credit rating so would anyone lend to us?
Interesting that today an SNP MP claimed they could push through independence without a referendum, if Corbyn got into Downing street this MP (Cherry) said the price of SNP support could be high, whatever that means. |
Yeah, of course it's going to be hard, but the route is much easier now following brexit, as one of the main obstacles, an independent Wales not being in the EU, has been removed, as independent or not, Wales wont be in the EU.
For both Scotland and NI independence and unification is only a matter of time. Where that leaves Wales is up to us. | |
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| FAO Plaid Cymru Nationalists on 20:09 - Oct 7 with 1475 views | peenemunde |
| FAO Plaid Cymru Nationalists on 20:06 - Oct 7 by yescomeon |
Yeah, of course it's going to be hard, but the route is much easier now following brexit, as one of the main obstacles, an independent Wales not being in the EU, has been removed, as independent or not, Wales wont be in the EU.
For both Scotland and NI independence and unification is only a matter of time. Where that leaves Wales is up to us. |
Wales would never vote for independence and anyone who says differently are mental. | | | |
| FAO Plaid Cymru Nationalists on 20:15 - Oct 7 with 1470 views | valleyboy |
| FAO Plaid Cymru Nationalists on 19:54 - Oct 7 by Catullus |
If Welsh GDP is 60 billion and the stated deficit is 15 billion then it is 25%.
If Wales chose independence there would be many problems and watching brexit unfold should give us that clue. We (the UK) aren't as closely tied to the EU as Wales is to the UK. Negotiating our withdrawal, sorting out a trade deal, it would be hard work. We would need a deal as we wouldn't automatically be members of the EU and it would take a while to sort that out. Wales could be stuck in limbo with only WTO rules to trade on, if that is bad for the UK and EU, how bad could that be for Wales?
Then there's the question of investment, where does Wales raise the money needed to build the infrastructure and invest in business that we are badly in need of? Even with our 5% of everything state owned we need billions on top, could we borrow it and how much interest will we pay? After all Wales doesn't have it's own credit rating so would anyone lend to us?
Interesting that today an SNP MP claimed they could push through independence without a referendum, if Corbyn got into Downing street this MP (Cherry) said the price of SNP support could be high, whatever that means. |
Britain has never elected a left wing party and I don’t think it ever will
As for the SNP pushing through independence
There’s a problem
They have to convince the people of Scotland and if the Polls are to believed the percentage vote for independence hasn’t shifted
They haven’t agreed what currency they will use, as it was made plain in the last referendum that they would not be able to use the pound (£) as ther currency
They wouldn’t be able to use the Euro as they wouldn’t be in the EU, as they will be taken out of the EU at the same time as the rest of the U.K.
What also if Scotland could not export their products to their biggest market | | | |
| FAO Plaid Cymru Nationalists on 20:18 - Oct 7 with 1463 views | Catullus |
| FAO Plaid Cymru Nationalists on 20:06 - Oct 7 by yescomeon |
Yeah, of course it's going to be hard, but the route is much easier now following brexit, as one of the main obstacles, an independent Wales not being in the EU, has been removed, as independent or not, Wales wont be in the EU.
For both Scotland and NI independence and unification is only a matter of time. Where that leaves Wales is up to us. |
Easier following Brexit? The route to independence might be easier but the path afterwards is much harder. You don't answer the points, what about a trade deal, we'd have to negotiate with every country whilst attempting to join the EU?
What about borrowing? With no credit rating would it be possible and if yes, at what cost?
If Welsh politicians can't get a better deal from Westminster (as the Scottish have done) are they up to the negotiations we'd be having with all the other countries (including England) AND the EU? | |
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| FAO Plaid Cymru Nationalists on 20:18 - Oct 7 with 1462 views | valleyboy |
| FAO Plaid Cymru Nationalists on 20:09 - Oct 7 by peenemunde |
Wales would never vote for independence and anyone who says differently are mental. |
Only fools that listen to the likes of this John that they tell me that knows better, or members of Plaid Cymru | | | |
| FAO Plaid Cymru Nationalists on 20:20 - Oct 7 with 1461 views | yescomeon |
| FAO Plaid Cymru Nationalists on 20:18 - Oct 7 by Catullus |
Easier following Brexit? The route to independence might be easier but the path afterwards is much harder. You don't answer the points, what about a trade deal, we'd have to negotiate with every country whilst attempting to join the EU?
What about borrowing? With no credit rating would it be possible and if yes, at what cost?
If Welsh politicians can't get a better deal from Westminster (as the Scottish have done) are they up to the negotiations we'd be having with all the other countries (including England) AND the EU? |
That all comes under "it's going to be hard". | |
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| FAO Plaid Cymru Nationalists on 20:41 - Oct 7 with 1440 views | Kilkennyjack |
| FAO Plaid Cymru Nationalists on 20:09 - Oct 7 by peenemunde |
Wales would never vote for independence and anyone who says differently are mental. |
Do you know many young welsh people ?
Very different views on Royalty, the establishment (like the BBC), and the end of the UK as we have known it. Informed, educated, and European,
Wales does not need a vote of course, as it never voted to join. It was Annexed.
That said, a vote is the best way to progress this.
No doubt a free Scotland and a united Ireland will iron out all the problems as they will get there first. Its going to be great.
The other side of fear lies freedom. |  |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| FAO Plaid Cymru Nationalists on 20:49 - Oct 7 with 1435 views | Catullus |
| FAO Plaid Cymru Nationalists on 20:20 - Oct 7 by yescomeon |
That all comes under "it's going to be hard". |
Seeing as Plaid are all for independence but rejoining the EU, it's not easier following brexit at all.
We have to fulfill all the "Copenhagen criteria" and our government has to do that whilst negotiating with all the other countries AND trying to sort out Wales.
Nobody with a brain ever thought brexit was going to be easy and I'd suggest saying "it'll be easier after brexit" is vastly understating the problem. To start with, persuading the majority of the Welsh electorate to choose independence is a massive job.
Who covers welfare payments (if we left the union and were setting up our own system) and who covers the police, NHS, schools etc. Everything Westminster warned Scotland about (such as not being allowed to use Sterling) would also apply to Wales. It would be another project fear, in essence but with one difference, they could dictate the outcome of very much of it, there wouldn't be as much guesswork and so many bogus estimations.
At least we would have swathes of England over a barrel (almost literally) for water supplies!! Investing in renewable energy, more solar, hydro and wind farms would be our best way forward because we could sell the energy on. This is one area where Westminster has been totally useless. | |
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| FAO Plaid Cymru Nationalists on 00:13 - Oct 8 with 1406 views | Josey_Wales37 |
| FAO Plaid Cymru Nationalists on 17:12 - Oct 7 by peenemunde |
Do you support Swansea playing in the welsh leagues ? |
Would support them in any league, but think is totally irrelevant really as I don't think there any rules that state that Swans would have to leave the English league set up. | | | |
| FAO Plaid Cymru Nationalists on 00:58 - Oct 8 with 1393 views | Josey_Wales37 |
| FAO Plaid Cymru Nationalists on 17:17 - Oct 7 by CopperJack |
Hahaha, so Welsh nationalism is all great, British nationalism is all bad. Do me a favour. Welsh nationalism is booing GSTQ at the Olympics (very inclusive), or measuring our success against how England fare in competitions, or blaming Westminster for the ineptitude of our own government. British nationalism is equally bad which is why parties like UKIP are a laughing stock.
Welsh nationalists, as articulated above, hate everything British because of nonsense historical reasons. Again, the sheer fact they want to leave our biggest market and where we get the majority of our money from (who do you think pays for free prescriptions because it isn't the call centre jobs across south Wales) to expatriate those powers to a foreign power who we don't elect...all so we can be slightly different to England. It's so strikingly xenophobic it's laughable. |
Thing is though, the Welsh Independence movement that is growing at this very movement is not all to do with Welsh nationalists, it is made up of other nationalities that live in Wales and see how things are. Ie, some of the people involved in the Yes Cymru movement are English. England as a country has many amazing places/people.
As for being Welsh Nationalist, I am sick of seeing our culture and identity being eroded away and having stuff forced on us. Since Dai Lloyd stood up in Senedd earlier this year telling of the commodities Wales has that are sellable like food (we produce huge amounts meat/veg etc), Energy, Water etc (we provide large parts of 'UK'), we have seen our own produce in every shop, at Royal Welsh show covered in UJ flags Everything is being aimed towards British Nationalism.
Don't get me wrong, I understand some peoples reasons for leaning more towards British Nationalism, like it might be because of job they have had like military or something, or some might still be under belief that because we have no coal mines any more etc, but that doesn't mean these people can not have their heads turned, I actually know of some people in big jobs who have. And imo more will over time as more myths are busted and people realise doesn't matter who in power, nothing changes in Wales, in fact gets worse.
I do agree with your point about the Welsh gov though as well, they are every bit as much to blame as UK gov. Time for change. | | | |
| FAO Plaid Cymru Nationalists on 06:20 - Oct 8 with 1357 views | peenemunde |
| FAO Plaid Cymru Nationalists on 00:13 - Oct 8 by Josey_Wales37 |
Would support them in any league, but think is totally irrelevant really as I don't think there any rules that state that Swans would have to leave the English league set up. |
You didn’t answer the question so let me rephrase it - would you prefer Swansea playing in the Welsh league instead of the English leagues. | | | |
| FAO Plaid Cymru Nationalists on 07:25 - Oct 8 with 1352 views | Kilkennyjack |
| FAO Plaid Cymru Nationalists on 06:20 - Oct 8 by peenemunde |
You didn’t answer the question so let me rephrase it - would you prefer Swansea playing in the Welsh league instead of the English leagues. |
This is bollox.
Did your Brexidiot friends like dumbo Boris, evil Mogg, and the dancing Maybot worry about English clubs participation in the Champions Leaguevwhen pushing Brexit ? No - because one is politics and one is sport.
I am sure our nice European friends would help us out if needed. You know nice people like Rangel, Fab, Amat, JDG, Pablo, Gomis, Michael VDH, these people are not our enemies. You thick tw@@t. | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| FAO Plaid Cymru Nationalists on 09:34 - Oct 8 with 1325 views | peenemunde |
| FAO Plaid Cymru Nationalists on 07:25 - Oct 8 by Kilkennyjack |
This is bollox.
Did your Brexidiot friends like dumbo Boris, evil Mogg, and the dancing Maybot worry about English clubs participation in the Champions Leaguevwhen pushing Brexit ? No - because one is politics and one is sport.
I am sure our nice European friends would help us out if needed. You know nice people like Rangel, Fab, Amat, JDG, Pablo, Gomis, Michael VDH, these people are not our enemies. You thick tw@@t. |
What is bollocks about asking a question ? Maybe the truth is a little bit uncomfortable for you.
It’s also a case of “when suits”.
You keep on mentioning the word “enemy”, you obviously listen to Gerry Adams to much. | | | |
| FAO Plaid Cymru Nationalists on 09:37 - Oct 8 with 1325 views | Catullus |
| FAO Plaid Cymru Nationalists on 07:25 - Oct 8 by Kilkennyjack |
This is bollox.
Did your Brexidiot friends like dumbo Boris, evil Mogg, and the dancing Maybot worry about English clubs participation in the Champions Leaguevwhen pushing Brexit ? No - because one is politics and one is sport.
I am sure our nice European friends would help us out if needed. You know nice people like Rangel, Fab, Amat, JDG, Pablo, Gomis, Michael VDH, these people are not our enemies. You thick tw@@t. |
Show me a post where anybody has said these people are our enemies, go on. Well you can't because it's nonsense put out there by you to give a reason for name calling.
You say one is politics and one is sport then you bring the two together, laughable really.
No one can answer my point though, how does Wales fund itself if we choose independence? I mean in the short term whilst we negotiate terms with other countries and try to join the EU, assuming Wales voted to join the EU, we may decide being totally independent is better. Can anyone tell me where we will get the money from in the short term?
I accept Wales has potential, I accept we have an energy surplus and water to sell, I accept we have plenty of farmland and could be self sufficient. However, we also have a lot of sick people, Wales has a massive health problem,
http://www.itv.com/news/wales/2012-05-09/charity-highlights-effects-of-arthritis
.....and it's only getting worse. How long will it take to raise the money and properly invest it in the NHS?
There will be a gap surely, a massive one. Where I can also agree is that if Scotland goes independent it will tell us a lot of what we need to know.
That leads to another question, if Scotland leaves the union and it becomes a total disaster, will Welsh nats/Plaid/A.N.Other independence supporters stop asking the question or would hatred of the English Parliament still drive people on?
Edit, obviously I accept that if Scotland leaves and it's a roaring success it will drive the indy supporters on. Maybe the best course of action is wait and see, it's been 800 years (almost) another decade is hardly a big thing. [Post edited 8 Oct 2018 9:40]
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| FAO Plaid Cymru Nationalists on 09:44 - Oct 8 with 1319 views | Josey_Wales37 |
| FAO Plaid Cymru Nationalists on 06:20 - Oct 8 by peenemunde |
You didn’t answer the question so let me rephrase it - would you prefer Swansea playing in the Welsh league instead of the English leagues. |
Of course I would prefer them to play in top leagues, just cant see what relevance it has, as there no evidence I have seen that would suggest that this would mean any of the clubs that are signed up to play in the English league system would have to change in event of something like this. | | | |
| FAO Plaid Cymru Nationalists on 10:02 - Oct 8 with 1307 views | Catullus |
| FAO Plaid Cymru Nationalists on 09:44 - Oct 8 by Josey_Wales37 |
Of course I would prefer them to play in top leagues, just cant see what relevance it has, as there no evidence I have seen that would suggest that this would mean any of the clubs that are signed up to play in the English league system would have to change in event of something like this. |
There was even a suggestion that if Catalonia went independent and Spain kicked Barca out of La Liga, they could join the EPL.
It is a possibility though, if Wales left the Union there is a chance that Welsh clubs could be invited to leave. There are a lot ( a minority yes ) of English "supporters" who would ditch Welsh clubs though there are also many who conversely, would let Scottish teams in.
I'd suggested this possibility because all things are possible. I accept it could be called a Unionist doing "project fear" because lets face it, indy is an unknown and many find the unknown scary. We make judgement calls depending on the level of scariness. I find Weslh Independence more scary than being part of the UK after Brexit. | |
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