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French Guyana Border - NI Border 13:43 - Oct 17 with 5527 viewswestwalesed

French Guyana is part of France, uses the Euro, and is part of the territory of the European Union.

It's border is over 1200km long and is shared with Brazil and Suriname. Is it a hard border all the way? I have no idea.

Just throwing this out there.


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French Guyana Border - NI Border on 17:37 - Oct 18 with 1126 viewsmagicdaps10

French Guyana Border - NI Border on 17:18 - Oct 18 by Kilkennyjack

“The Good Friday Agreement states that "the Secretary of State" should call a referendum "‘if at any time it appears likely to him that a majority of those voting would express a wish that Northern Ireland should cease to be part of the United Kingdom and form part of a united Ireland."

The GFA covers this possibility.

A United Ireland in Europe would be very interesting ..
Brexidiot Britain will be less interesting ...


I can assure you, a United Ireland will be very interesting......a country that they rely on heavily, being out of the EU and a whole can of worms opened up again with an extra 2m plus people in house to entertain.
Not forgetting those 2m plus people will not besinging from the same hymn sheet.

As for post brexit Uk.......that might not be as much fun but we already know that. Its funny how those people who laugh and mock from a far end up with a worried face at the end.

The GFA was superb for Ireland, anything that threatens that is a serious threat.....that threat is very real again.
My wife is from Donegal and she fears check points on the border again.

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French Guyana Border - NI Border on 17:38 - Oct 18 with 1123 viewslondonlisa2001

French Guyana Border - NI Border on 16:08 - Oct 18 by Jango

Cameron called the referendum because it was the will of the people, not because of those 3.


If you believe that you’ll believe anything.

The referendum wasn’t anything to do with the ‘will of the people’.

It was mooted to attempt to shut up the right wing of the Tory party and to scupper the increasing annoyance of the influence of Farage. It then descended even further into personality driven farce when Boris Johnson took a calculated gamble to stand in favour of Brexit, despite his previous consistent support of the EU, as he thought it would leave him best placed to become Tory leader. He expected remain to win, but also expected to be able to point at a sizeable minority in favour of leaving, to explain why he, as someone who understood the issues, could represent them as new ‘harmonising’ leader, as Cameron would no longer be accepted by them.
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French Guyana Border - NI Border on 17:45 - Oct 18 with 1109 viewsJango

French Guyana Border - NI Border on 17:38 - Oct 18 by londonlisa2001

If you believe that you’ll believe anything.

The referendum wasn’t anything to do with the ‘will of the people’.

It was mooted to attempt to shut up the right wing of the Tory party and to scupper the increasing annoyance of the influence of Farage. It then descended even further into personality driven farce when Boris Johnson took a calculated gamble to stand in favour of Brexit, despite his previous consistent support of the EU, as he thought it would leave him best placed to become Tory leader. He expected remain to win, but also expected to be able to point at a sizeable minority in favour of leaving, to explain why he, as someone who understood the issues, could represent them as new ‘harmonising’ leader, as Cameron would no longer be accepted by them.


Keep telling yourself that.
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French Guyana Border - NI Border on 17:47 - Oct 18 with 1105 viewslondonlisa2001

French Guyana Border - NI Border on 17:18 - Oct 18 by Kilkennyjack

“The Good Friday Agreement states that "the Secretary of State" should call a referendum "‘if at any time it appears likely to him that a majority of those voting would express a wish that Northern Ireland should cease to be part of the United Kingdom and form part of a united Ireland."

The GFA covers this possibility.

A United Ireland in Europe would be very interesting ..
Brexidiot Britain will be less interesting ...


The Secretary of State couldn’t possibly say that outcome would be likely at the moment. Possible, but not likely.

Stripping away the detail, the whole point of the GFA is that it created a hybrid fudge, whereby Northern Ireland could be seen as a self governing country, equally tied to both GB and the Republic depending on your viewpoint. That’s been fine and dandy, as both countries being part of the EU has allowed that to bump along relatively happily. The problem is that if the UK and the EU diverge, without alignment, that happy status quo falls apart.
Once it falls apart, half of the population of NI end up deeply unhappy - not good news for anyone. Far better to leave as is until demographics mean that the vast majority can be happy. We are not at that point, although it is highly likely to happen in the future. Not by March though...
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French Guyana Border - NI Border on 17:58 - Oct 18 with 1092 viewslondonlisa2001

French Guyana Border - NI Border on 17:45 - Oct 18 by Jango

Keep telling yourself that.


I’m not telling myself anything. That is what happened.
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French Guyana Border - NI Border on 18:04 - Oct 18 with 1089 viewsJango

French Guyana Border - NI Border on 17:58 - Oct 18 by londonlisa2001

I’m not telling myself anything. That is what happened.


In Lisa’s world where she knows better than anyone else on everything.
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French Guyana Border - NI Border on 18:13 - Oct 18 with 1084 viewslondonlisa2001

French Guyana Border - NI Border on 18:04 - Oct 18 by Jango

In Lisa’s world where she knows better than anyone else on everything.


Nope.

But it is factually what happened.

There is no ‘alternative opinion’ on facts. They are what they are.

People can have different opinions on, as an example, what will happen in the future after Brexit, or whether we will have a second referendum, or whether we will have a deal or no deal, but it’s not possible to have different opinions on something that is a matter of fact.
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French Guyana Border - NI Border on 18:34 - Oct 18 with 1072 viewsKilkennyjack

French Guyana Border - NI Border on 17:47 - Oct 18 by londonlisa2001

The Secretary of State couldn’t possibly say that outcome would be likely at the moment. Possible, but not likely.

Stripping away the detail, the whole point of the GFA is that it created a hybrid fudge, whereby Northern Ireland could be seen as a self governing country, equally tied to both GB and the Republic depending on your viewpoint. That’s been fine and dandy, as both countries being part of the EU has allowed that to bump along relatively happily. The problem is that if the UK and the EU diverge, without alignment, that happy status quo falls apart.
Once it falls apart, half of the population of NI end up deeply unhappy - not good news for anyone. Far better to leave as is until demographics mean that the vast majority can be happy. We are not at that point, although it is highly likely to happen in the future. Not by March though...


Well the fact that the north of Ireland voted to stay in the EU, in 2016, might well be enough to call the vote. Thats a hard fact, and then Its a judgement call, of course,

Brexit is the new game changer.

An English speaking Ireland in the EU may become everything that Brexidiot Britain is no longer. You know, access to market, inclusive, welcoming, collaborative, modern and forward thinking.


‘Our time will come 🍀’.

Beware of the Risen People

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French Guyana Border - NI Border on 18:39 - Oct 18 with 1070 viewslondonlisa2001

French Guyana Border - NI Border on 18:34 - Oct 18 by Kilkennyjack

Well the fact that the north of Ireland voted to stay in the EU, in 2016, might well be enough to call the vote. Thats a hard fact, and then Its a judgement call, of course,

Brexit is the new game changer.

An English speaking Ireland in the EU may become everything that Brexidiot Britain is no longer. You know, access to market, inclusive, welcoming, collaborative, modern and forward thinking.


‘Our time will come 🍀’.


Couldn’t use that argument.

Scotland voted far more decisively to remain within the EU than NI and voted against independence.

And there already is an English speaking Ireland in the EU...
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French Guyana Border - NI Border on 19:16 - Oct 18 with 1044 viewstrampie

French Guyana Border - NI Border on 12:55 - Oct 18 by londonlisa2001

That solution also falls foul of the Good Friday agreement...


Not if it passes a vote, a united Ireland is fully in keeping with the GFA in that scenario.

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French Guyana Border - NI Border on 19:19 - Oct 18 with 1042 viewsJango

French Guyana Border - NI Border on 18:13 - Oct 18 by londonlisa2001

Nope.

But it is factually what happened.

There is no ‘alternative opinion’ on facts. They are what they are.

People can have different opinions on, as an example, what will happen in the future after Brexit, or whether we will have a second referendum, or whether we will have a deal or no deal, but it’s not possible to have different opinions on something that is a matter of fact.


Please present the facts then. Or is it factual to you because it’s what you’ve come up with in your deluded mind.
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French Guyana Border - NI Border on 19:35 - Oct 18 with 1035 viewsexiledclaseboy

French Guyana Border - NI Border on 16:08 - Oct 18 by Jango

Cameron called the referendum because it was the will of the people, not because of those 3.


Ha. That’s the funniest one yet. I’m pretty sure not even you believe it.

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French Guyana Border - NI Border on 19:43 - Oct 18 with 1024 viewsJango

French Guyana Border - NI Border on 19:35 - Oct 18 by exiledclaseboy

Ha. That’s the funniest one yet. I’m pretty sure not even you believe it.


Cameron made the promise of a referendum in his manifesto to win back the votes from UKIP, it worked and he then honoured his manifesto. That is a fact
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French Guyana Border - NI Border on 20:09 - Oct 18 with 1013 viewsexiledclaseboy

French Guyana Border - NI Border on 19:43 - Oct 18 by Jango

Cameron made the promise of a referendum in his manifesto to win back the votes from UKIP, it worked and he then honoured his manifesto. That is a fact


Well yes. But that’s not what you said at all.

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French Guyana Border - NI Border on 20:20 - Oct 18 with 1008 viewsKilkennyjack

French Guyana Border - NI Border on 18:39 - Oct 18 by londonlisa2001

Couldn’t use that argument.

Scotland voted far more decisively to remain within the EU than NI and voted against independence.

And there already is an English speaking Ireland in the EU...


Yes - similar in Scotland. Brexit changes ensure a second Scottish Referendum vote very soon.
Comrade Nicola is on the case.
The logic applies in both cases rather than neither.

The Republic is doing well, of course, but the future model is not the same.
The Republic is doing well even whilst Britain is a stable western democracy within Europe.

The addition of Belfast and Derry will ‘power up’ the new larger Republic - and Britain will be a low cost sweat shop (Singapore style) economy rather than a stable western democracy within Europe.

🍀

Beware of the Risen People

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French Guyana Border - NI Border on 21:58 - Oct 18 with 983 viewsyescomeon

French Guyana Border - NI Border on 14:12 - Oct 18 by westwalesed

Yu, I'm starting to think the only solution is a NI Referendum on:

a) reunification with the Republic of Ireland and remain in the EU;
b) continued union with the UK and a hard border with the Republic.


It's not just for the people of NI to decide though. The people of the ROI also need a say as unification has implications for their country two. It would almost require two simultaneous referendums on the same issue but with different forms of the question. For the ROI a yes/no 'do you accept the unification of NI and the ROI'. And for NI some kind of order of preference from (a) unification with the ROI, (b) continued union with the UK w/ hard border, (c) in the event of refusal by the ROI to accept unification independence for NI from the UK.

It might be likely that the ROI would vote in favour of unification but I don't think it's a given.

Upthecity!

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French Guyana Border - NI Border on 22:23 - Oct 18 with 975 viewsCatullus

French Guyana Border - NI Border on 20:20 - Oct 18 by Kilkennyjack

Yes - similar in Scotland. Brexit changes ensure a second Scottish Referendum vote very soon.
Comrade Nicola is on the case.
The logic applies in both cases rather than neither.

The Republic is doing well, of course, but the future model is not the same.
The Republic is doing well even whilst Britain is a stable western democracy within Europe.

The addition of Belfast and Derry will ‘power up’ the new larger Republic - and Britain will be a low cost sweat shop (Singapore style) economy rather than a stable western democracy within Europe.

🍀


Belfast and Derry will power the Republic? I suppose that depends on whether or not NI is in profit or needs subsidising.

As for Irish unity,

https://sluggerotoole.com/2012/08/22/does-the-south-really-want-the-north-as-par

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
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French Guyana Border - NI Border on 22:30 - Oct 18 with 964 viewstrampie

All the recent polls i've seen in the Republic are massively for unification.
[Post edited 18 Oct 2018 22:59]

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French Guyana Border - NI Border on 05:53 - Oct 19 with 901 viewsJango

French Guyana Border - NI Border on 20:09 - Oct 18 by exiledclaseboy

Well yes. But that’s not what you said at all.


Of course it is. He won back the votes based on that promise meaning it’s the will of the people (or his voters if you’re being funny). Not really hard to understand is it.
[Post edited 19 Oct 2018 5:56]
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French Guyana Border - NI Border on 05:57 - Oct 19 with 897 viewsexiledclaseboy

French Guyana Border - NI Border on 05:53 - Oct 19 by Jango

Of course it is. He won back the votes based on that promise meaning it’s the will of the people (or his voters if you’re being funny). Not really hard to understand is it.
[Post edited 19 Oct 2018 5:56]


Now that you’ve explained your “will of the people” comment I fully understand what you meant by it. I just have to return to my original reaction, that your point is complete pigswill.

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French Guyana Border - NI Border on 06:23 - Oct 19 with 880 viewsJango

French Guyana Border - NI Border on 05:57 - Oct 19 by exiledclaseboy

Now that you’ve explained your “will of the people” comment I fully understand what you meant by it. I just have to return to my original reaction, that your point is complete pigswill.


You can have as many theories as you want but unlike certain people I’m basing mine on actual facts. people called for a referendum and the majority won the vote.
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French Guyana Border - NI Border on 07:15 - Oct 19 with 868 viewsKilkennyjack

French Guyana Border - NI Border on 06:23 - Oct 19 by Jango

You can have as many theories as you want but unlike certain people I’m basing mine on actual facts. people called for a referendum and the majority won the vote.


Very few people did.

It was used by Dai Cam to nick the ukip vote and win an election.
It was as cynical as that.
Joyless.

And i mean nobody thought people were that thick.

Beware of the Risen People

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French Guyana Border - NI Border on 08:57 - Oct 19 with 846 viewsCatullus

French Guyana Border - NI Border on 16:50 - Oct 18 by trampie

That is what the Communists say,' the World belongs to no one' and i'm sure the animals agree as well.


The Communists say no one can own anything but maybe you can't see the difference. It's quite literal, Humanity does not own the planet any more than a person owns the mites living on him or her.

Kilkenny,I feel maybe you missed the point about trouble returning to Ireland, can you not see that there is every prospect of Unionist terrorists returning if they are unified? If you have a look there is plenty of evidence that many Southern Irish aren't really bothered bout NI anyway. It's all those young people see, they look at the world in a different way.

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
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French Guyana Border - NI Border on 09:20 - Oct 19 with 838 viewswestwalesed

French Guyana Border - NI Border on 21:58 - Oct 18 by yescomeon

It's not just for the people of NI to decide though. The people of the ROI also need a say as unification has implications for their country two. It would almost require two simultaneous referendums on the same issue but with different forms of the question. For the ROI a yes/no 'do you accept the unification of NI and the ROI'. And for NI some kind of order of preference from (a) unification with the ROI, (b) continued union with the UK w/ hard border, (c) in the event of refusal by the ROI to accept unification independence for NI from the UK.

It might be likely that the ROI would vote in favour of unification but I don't think it's a given.


Agree that the ROI would need to have their own referendum - though I can't see any other result than being in favour?

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French Guyana Border - NI Border on 09:25 - Oct 19 with 834 viewsProfessor

French Guyana Border - NI Border on 17:45 - Oct 18 by Jango

Keep telling yourself that.


Lisa (and Kilkenny) are right. It was a Cameron gambit to win the election and take votes from UKIP and to muzzle the right wing of his party. The remain campaign was a massive 'cock up' , and Cameron did not bank on a left-wing Labour leader who, along with people like Frank Field, never supported the EU. They assumed victory and let lies (350 million a week for the NHS) and the charisma of Farage win votes along with the disaffected in Wales and the North vote leave (with exceptions like Liverpool and Manchester where EU money has driven their resurgence). People, also wrongly, believed voting leave would cause the collapse the Tory government and let Labour in -in effect it was a vote against Cameron who now looks like a sane and effective leader.

So we are left with the most ineffective PM in my lifetime (and yes that includes Jim Callaghan), opportunistic vultures like Boris and right wing nutters like Rees-Mogg and a mess of titanic proportions. I have seen few solutions to how Brexit will improve our lives and plenty of examples such as environmental protection , individual rights and public health that will be eroded. It is likely the DfID/ODA budget will be slashed (and I don't want any BS of how we should not have this- I have seen the difference it makes in Ethiopia and Malawi first hand). I am fifty and reasonably comfortable but what about my 16 and 12 year olds? Will they like many in the US have 3 jobs to make ends meet? We were duped and lied to. If the GFA collapses and a return to violence ensues then Brexit is beyond an omnishambles. Much of the work to allow Blair, Aherne and Clinton to back in its glory was done by Sir John Major's government. I think Sir John's ( an honourable and decent man in my opinion) recent lecture on the Brexit disaster is a prescient lesson for us,
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