| The Italian Budget 00:23 - Oct 24 with 2273 views | Kerouac |
The Italian government want to do what the Labour Party have been saying we should do here...namely, spend more government money to stimulate growth.
The EU Commission is "demanding changes", telling Italy to revise it's budget.
The Commission said the first draft represented a "particularly serious non-compliance" with its recommendations.
The Commission Vice-President for the euro, Valdis Dombrovskis, said Italy's response to the commission's concerns was "not sufficient" to assuage fears - and the euro's rules were the same for everybody.
So I ask, as many of the Remainers on here are also supporters of higher government spending in the UK how do you feel about the statements from the commission?
Should Italy press ahead with their budget plans regardless? |  |
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| The Italian Budget on 03:16 - Oct 24 with 2225 views | Highjack |
Demanding changes and fines for non-compliance, but Italy still has its sovereignty folks. Honest! |  |
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| The Italian Budget on 08:37 - Oct 24 with 2141 views | ItchySphincter |
Plenty of remainers would agree that the EU's broken as it is. I chance to reform might have been nice. |  |
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| The Italian Budget on 10:51 - Oct 24 with 2081 views | Catullus |
| The Italian Budget on 08:37 - Oct 24 by ItchySphincter |
Plenty of remainers would agree that the EU's broken as it is. I chance to reform might have been nice. |
Well yes, and I have said if the EU reformed I could happily change my vote. However it has been shown several times that the EU doesn't do reform, it sticks to it's ideology.
As I have said several times, the EU doesn't like state aid, it likes to say it champions competition and competition should mean lower prices, more efficiency etc but the reality has been different and they have become frinds of the corporations.
If the EU leaders and commission were elected we could get rid of the current lot and put people in charge who say they would change it. As long as the current leaders effectively choose the next leaders, nothing will change.
Letting the Council make the nomination and having the MEP's rubber stamp it isn't my idea of democracy.
Saying that, there are plenty on here who don't seem to think the people should be making these choices either! |  |
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| The Italian Budget on 14:09 - Oct 24 with 2005 views | Highjack |
5 other countries have also received letters from the EU telling them off about planning to spend too much in their respective budgets although not in as strong terms as the one received by Rome.
How did we get to the point where nationally elected Governments are being told how and when they can spend the money from the taxpayer? Or not in this case.
Why does anybody want to be part of this?
Does anybody still believe that austerity isn't driven by the EU? | |
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| The Italian Budget on 18:00 - Oct 24 with 1926 views | LeonWasGod |
| The Italian Budget on 14:09 - Oct 24 by Highjack |
5 other countries have also received letters from the EU telling them off about planning to spend too much in their respective budgets although not in as strong terms as the one received by Rome.
How did we get to the point where nationally elected Governments are being told how and when they can spend the money from the taxpayer? Or not in this case.
Why does anybody want to be part of this?
Does anybody still believe that austerity isn't driven by the EU? |
It’s not money from the tax payer though. I thought the Italian government want to increase their debt and borrow more the Italian central bank? If they were just spending money raised through taxes the EU wouldn’t be involved.
Whatever. As long as Naughton only plays at right back I’ll go with the majority view. |  | | |
| The Italian Budget on 19:39 - Oct 24 with 1890 views | Highjack |
| The Italian Budget on 18:00 - Oct 24 by LeonWasGod |
It’s not money from the tax payer though. I thought the Italian government want to increase their debt and borrow more the Italian central bank? If they were just spending money raised through taxes the EU wouldn’t be involved.
Whatever. As long as Naughton only plays at right back I’ll go with the majority view. |
Well obviously it’s a mixture of tax receipts and borrowing. Just like any other government really, but they and five other countries are unable to use that money as they see fit as the EU aren’t allowing them. They must cut spending and borrowing to avoid fines and sanctions. Forced austerity. | |
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| The Italian Budget on 19:51 - Oct 24 with 1874 views | londonlisa2001 |
| The Italian Budget on 19:39 - Oct 24 by Highjack |
Well obviously it’s a mixture of tax receipts and borrowing. Just like any other government really, but they and five other countries are unable to use that money as they see fit as the EU aren’t allowing them. They must cut spending and borrowing to avoid fines and sanctions. Forced austerity. |
It’s impossible for countries to share a currency and yet act completely independently on fiscal issues. Italy’s actions affect the rest of the Eurozone, so they have to recognise that.
But if you think that any country, including us after Brexit, can act with complete fiscal independence, you are very wrong. | | | |
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| The Italian Budget on 20:17 - Oct 24 with 1849 views | Dr_Winston |
| The Italian Budget on 19:51 - Oct 24 by londonlisa2001 |
It’s impossible for countries to share a currency and yet act completely independently on fiscal issues. Italy’s actions affect the rest of the Eurozone, so they have to recognise that.
But if you think that any country, including us after Brexit, can act with complete fiscal independence, you are very wrong. |
Sharing a currency seems like a stupid idea then. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| The Italian Budget on 20:36 - Oct 24 with 1823 views | londonlisa2001 |
| The Italian Budget on 20:17 - Oct 24 by Dr_Winston |
Sharing a currency seems like a stupid idea then. |
Well it depends what you want.
We share a currency within the UK for example.
But the permanent opt out of the Euro the UK had from the EU always seemed like a good idea to me. | | | |
| The Italian Budget on 20:39 - Oct 24 with 1825 views | Dr_Winston |
| The Italian Budget on 20:36 - Oct 24 by londonlisa2001 |
Well it depends what you want.
We share a currency within the UK for example.
But the permanent opt out of the Euro the UK had from the EU always seemed like a good idea to me. |
The UK is politically one nation. You can't have a single currency without a single Government. It's hard enough to shape financial policy to benefit the entire UK, never mind an entire, politically divided continent.
Steering well clear of being part of the Euro (despite Blair's desires) was probably Gordon Brown's greatest contribution. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| The Italian Budget on 21:11 - Oct 24 with 1798 views | Flashberryjack |
| The Italian Budget on 20:39 - Oct 24 by Dr_Winston |
The UK is politically one nation. You can't have a single currency without a single Government. It's hard enough to shape financial policy to benefit the entire UK, never mind an entire, politically divided continent.
Steering well clear of being part of the Euro (despite Blair's desires) was probably Gordon Brown's greatest contribution. |
That kwnt Blair...him wanting us to remain in the EU is probably a very good reason why we shouldn't. |  |
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| The Italian Budget on 21:19 - Oct 24 with 1793 views | Dr_Winston |
| The Italian Budget on 21:11 - Oct 24 by Flashberryjack |
That kwnt Blair...him wanting us to remain in the EU is probably a very good reason why we shouldn't. |
I'm quite happy being on the alternate side to Blair, Heseltine & Clegg. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| The Italian Budget on 21:23 - Oct 24 with 1781 views | exiledclaseboy |
| The Italian Budget on 21:19 - Oct 24 by Dr_Winston |
I'm quite happy being on the alternate side to Blair, Heseltine & Clegg. |
And Thatcher. |  |
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| The Italian Budget on 21:25 - Oct 24 with 1777 views | Dr_Winston |
Her too. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| The Italian Budget on 14:28 - Oct 25 with 1675 views | Highjack |
| The Italian Budget on 19:51 - Oct 24 by londonlisa2001 |
It’s impossible for countries to share a currency and yet act completely independently on fiscal issues. Italy’s actions affect the rest of the Eurozone, so they have to recognise that.
But if you think that any country, including us after Brexit, can act with complete fiscal independence, you are very wrong. |
So they are locked into austerity forever then. | |
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| The Italian Budget on 14:53 - Oct 25 with 1666 views | Batterseajack |
| The Italian Budget on 14:28 - Oct 25 by Highjack |
So they are locked into austerity forever then. |
Are they locked into austerity? | | | |
| The Italian Budget on 15:13 - Oct 25 with 1652 views | Highjack |
| The Italian Budget on 14:53 - Oct 25 by Batterseajack |
Are they locked into austerity? |
Clearly. | |
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| The Italian Budget on 18:59 - Oct 25 with 1597 views | swanforthemoney |
Italy could make a decent fist of blowing up the Euro, and dropping us into another 2008-style banking crisis unless they listen to the European commission.
Italy's situation in much different to ours. Historically they have built up a deficit which is a really high proportion of GDP. And although they currently run a primary budget surplus (ignoring interest payments); when you take into account the interest payments, they would be running a deficit which will prove unsustainable. The interest payments would eventually rise exponentially and Italy would default. The situation is similar to that of Greece, but the Italians have about 8 times the debt of the Greeks. (2.4 trillion rather than 300 billion).
Over and above that, the growth projections are incredibly optimistic to say the least, with more modest and sensible growth projections, their deficit will look even worse than they have forecast.
By contrast, higher Government spending in the UK could be sustained, given the low interest rates we pay and the maturity of a lot of the debt. As a last resort if we get in to trouble we have more flexibility to 'print' money and/or adjust interest rates because we have our own currency rather than being part of the Euro.
Government spending could be funded by modest tax rises or sustainable borrowing. |  |
| I stand in the North Stand
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| The Italian Budget on 07:45 - Oct 26 with 1523 views | felixstowe_jack |
Higher uk borrowing could not be sustained. We are currently paying £40 billion in interest payments every year. If Macdonnell borrowed another £49 billion the pound would dive interest payments would double to £80 billion
They tried that in Venezuela thier economy collapsed despite their vast oil reserves and smallish population. | |
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