| The Tories have deliberately increased poverty. 19:27 - Nov 18 with 5694 views | trampie |
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| The Tories have deliberately increased poverty. on 13:02 - Nov 20 with 1749 views | bluey_the_blue |
| The Tories have deliberately increased poverty. on 12:44 - Nov 20 by Jack_Meoff |
Patronising? Classic straw man from you old son. You're arguing against a point I haven't even made. I've worked in disability services all my life, and I also have a son with a disability. I don't need any lecture from you pal.
The WCAs are massively skewed against the claimant. And target driven. They cost more than they're actually meant to save - the cash is going, in effect, to Capita and ATOS shareholders. Public money into private hands - the Tory raison d'etre. There may be some talking the piss but they're not just chucking the baby out with the bathwater but the whole sink and then burning the house down.
Universal Credit has also been absolutely beset with problems yet it's being rolled our regardless of how many are being left destitute and homeless. The problem with Tory apologists like yourself is that you always view situations through a red/blue Labour/Tory lens which seems to stop you viewing objectively what these bastards are doing to a section of the UK populace. 'Yeah but Labour, Corbyn etc etc blah blah' repeat ad infinitum.
With regard your last paragraph - did you forget the Tories closed the Remploy factories, at least in England? On International Disabled Day or the like, if memory serves. And they also got rid of ILF, which was an absolute lifeline for some.
Still, keep apologising for these pieces of human detritus bluey. F*cking sickens me. |
I didn't say you made that point. It was a general point.
I don't disagree with you per se on your second paragraph - I've known doctors willing to write sick notes. Hell, I had a mild reaction to some medication a few years ago and the GP's exact words were to ask me how long I wanted to be off work!
The existing benefit system was an absolute mess, it needs simplification. Nobody would argue against that, so Universal Credit imo is the best way forward - I fully agree it should not be rolled out before as many problems are resolved. I'd also like the tax system greatly simplified because like the benefits system, it's so easy to abuse.
Last paragraph, no I didn't forget. I stated what I wanted to have happen. |  | | |
| The Tories have deliberately increased poverty. on 15:45 - Nov 20 with 1690 views | Catullus |
You may not like it but bluey has a fair point, not all disabilities mean you cannot work. Take myself, there is definitely a job I can do but the problem is employers don't want to give me a job, I've given up applying. Of course they can't say we're worried you'll be off sick a lot what with your medical history.
The DWP are utter trash and they behave as if the benefit cheats are the vast majority but as always the truth of this argument is somewhere in the middle. The truth is there are benefit cheats and the system seems to work ok for them while the genuine claimants are made to wait and often have their benefits cut. It doesn't pay you to tell the DWP the truth, lying works wonders so what do you do,
I had an assessment last year, my assessor was very nice, I told her my concerns that my money would be cut even though my health had gotten worse and her opinion was that I had nothing to worry about but still, my money was cut.
The system stinks. | |
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| The Tories have deliberately increased poverty. on 16:47 - Nov 20 with 1667 views | oh_tommy_tommy |
Ah
The Torys
Of course they’ve dismissed this UN report.
Standard |  |
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| The Tories have deliberately increased poverty. on 19:48 - Nov 20 with 1638 views | oh_tommy_tommy |
The beginning of the end
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| The Tories have deliberately increased poverty. on 20:39 - Nov 20 with 1624 views | Catullus |
| The Tories have deliberately increased poverty. on 19:48 - Nov 20 by oh_tommy_tommy |
The beginning of the end
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Why? | |
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| The Tories have deliberately increased poverty. on 20:49 - Nov 20 with 1621 views | exiledclaseboy |
| The Tories have deliberately increased poverty. on 20:39 - Nov 20 by Catullus |
Why? |
Because they accepted the amendments to avoid losing the votes. Which presumably means the DUP is flexing its muscles thus depriving the government of its commons majority. I doubt it’s the beginning if the end but it does demonstrate that the government can no longer (for now at least) rely on DUP confidence and supply support, which has been the only thing keeping it legitimate. Finance Bills are one of the things the DUP has agreed to support the government on. |  |
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| The Tories have deliberately increased poverty. on 21:15 - Nov 20 with 1602 views | longlostjack |
| The Tories have deliberately increased poverty. on 12:44 - Nov 20 by Jack_Meoff |
Patronising? Classic straw man from you old son. You're arguing against a point I haven't even made. I've worked in disability services all my life, and I also have a son with a disability. I don't need any lecture from you pal.
The WCAs are massively skewed against the claimant. And target driven. They cost more than they're actually meant to save - the cash is going, in effect, to Capita and ATOS shareholders. Public money into private hands - the Tory raison d'etre. There may be some talking the piss but they're not just chucking the baby out with the bathwater but the whole sink and then burning the house down.
Universal Credit has also been absolutely beset with problems yet it's being rolled our regardless of how many are being left destitute and homeless. The problem with Tory apologists like yourself is that you always view situations through a red/blue Labour/Tory lens which seems to stop you viewing objectively what these bastards are doing to a section of the UK populace. 'Yeah but Labour, Corbyn etc etc blah blah' repeat ad infinitum.
With regard your last paragraph - did you forget the Tories closed the Remploy factories, at least in England? On International Disabled Day or the like, if memory serves. And they also got rid of ILF, which was an absolute lifeline for some.
Still, keep apologising for these pieces of human detritus bluey. F*cking sickens me. |
Top post. The closure of the Remploy factories was absolutely disgusting. |  |
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| The Tories have deliberately increased poverty. on 21:17 - Nov 20 with 1601 views | Catullus |
| The Tories have deliberately increased poverty. on 20:49 - Nov 20 by exiledclaseboy |
Because they accepted the amendments to avoid losing the votes. Which presumably means the DUP is flexing its muscles thus depriving the government of its commons majority. I doubt it’s the beginning if the end but it does demonstrate that the government can no longer (for now at least) rely on DUP confidence and supply support, which has been the only thing keeping it legitimate. Finance Bills are one of the things the DUP has agreed to support the government on. |
OK, thanks Clasie. We knew the DUP were going to play hardball. They are yet another faction not happy with the brexit deal.
I'd disagree about legitimacy though, the government is legitimate all be it a minority government. They won the GE after all.
Useless, hopeless, pathetic yes, but legitimate! | |
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| The Tories have deliberately increased poverty. on 21:27 - Nov 20 with 1594 views | exiledclaseboy |
| The Tories have deliberately increased poverty. on 21:17 - Nov 20 by Catullus |
OK, thanks Clasie. We knew the DUP were going to play hardball. They are yet another faction not happy with the brexit deal.
I'd disagree about legitimacy though, the government is legitimate all be it a minority government. They won the GE after all.
Useless, hopeless, pathetic yes, but legitimate! |
That’s not my point. I’m not arguing that they won the election. But as soon as any government can no longer command the confidence of the Commons it’s illegitimate. I’m not saying that’s the case here yet, they’d have to lose a confidence or money vote for that to happen. My point was that it’s only DUP votes that have given the government its majority and hence its legitimacy. | |
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| The Tories have deliberately increased poverty. on 21:37 - Nov 20 with 1587 views | Catullus |
| The Tories have deliberately increased poverty. on 21:27 - Nov 20 by exiledclaseboy |
That’s not my point. I’m not arguing that they won the election. But as soon as any government can no longer command the confidence of the Commons it’s illegitimate. I’m not saying that’s the case here yet, they’d have to lose a confidence or money vote for that to happen. My point was that it’s only DUP votes that have given the government its majority and hence its legitimacy. |
On that basis it truly wouldn't matter if May handed the keys to Number 10 to Corbyn tomorrow because neither has the confidence of a majority of anybody!! | |
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| The Tories have deliberately increased poverty. on 21:46 - Nov 20 with 1584 views | exiledclaseboy |
| The Tories have deliberately increased poverty. on 21:37 - Nov 20 by Catullus |
On that basis it truly wouldn't matter if May handed the keys to Number 10 to Corbyn tomorrow because neither has the confidence of a majority of anybody!! |
That’s why there’s an election if the sitting government loses a confidence vote. | |
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| The Tories have deliberately increased poverty. on 09:56 - Nov 21 with 1503 views | Jack_Meoff |
| The Tories have deliberately increased poverty. on 13:02 - Nov 20 by bluey_the_blue |
I didn't say you made that point. It was a general point.
I don't disagree with you per se on your second paragraph - I've known doctors willing to write sick notes. Hell, I had a mild reaction to some medication a few years ago and the GP's exact words were to ask me how long I wanted to be off work!
The existing benefit system was an absolute mess, it needs simplification. Nobody would argue against that, so Universal Credit imo is the best way forward - I fully agree it should not be rolled out before as many problems are resolved. I'd also like the tax system greatly simplified because like the benefits system, it's so easy to abuse.
Last paragraph, no I didn't forget. I stated what I wanted to have happen. |
Fair enough bluey. I thought it was aimed at me. Apologies for that.
Thing is with UC though is that it isn't a new idea or concept, not by any stretch. It's been investigated before by previous governments (couldn't say off hand which ones) who came to the conclusion that the infrastructure/ technology didn't exist. It just didn't work.I know things have moved on in that regard but IDS was warned about this, but he was determined to plough ahead anyway, despite the myriad of problems coming to the fore very quickly. There's MPs from both sides of the HoC that have spoken out about it. Still, they roll it out regardless.
People having to wait, what is it six weeks for payment (or was it reduced to five)? Then there's the increasingly draconian sanctions regime. People deliberately targeted; there was letters a few years ago posted online that DWP bosses were to hit certain sanction targets a month. That's just hideous. Then they'll use these skewed figures to claim unemployment is down when there's more to it than that; and that's without looking at the kind of jobs people are creating these days since the UK's industries were sold for a song. (Another topic entirely!)
I agree with your point about disabled people and help to work. Absolutely. However If you think the Tories will ever do anything other than kick their crutches away (metaphorically or otherwise) then you're very deluded mate. |  |
| If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face--forever. |
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| The Tories have deliberately increased poverty. on 13:31 - Nov 21 with 1463 views | Catullus |
| The Tories have deliberately increased poverty. on 21:46 - Nov 20 by exiledclaseboy |
That’s why there’s an election if the sitting government loses a confidence vote. |
Well almost, they still get 14 days to try and win confidence back. In the case of our current 'great and good' we could be having these kind of votes more often because of the generally useless politicians we are stuck with.
As i posted before, none of the above would mostly have been a better choice. | |
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| The Tories have deliberately increased poverty. on 17:18 - Nov 21 with 1432 views | LeonWasGod |
They haven't got a clue have they? I haven't a clue, but at least I recognise that someone who's very likely to be living in social or rented housing, probably with a big family (as these caps hit those families the hardest), may not either (a) have the space to rent, (b) be allowed to sublet, and/or (c) even if they have/are, be able to offer a private, quiet space that is attractive to a lodger. |  | | |
| The Tories have deliberately increased poverty. on 18:42 - Nov 21 with 1417 views | Catullus |
| The Tories have deliberately increased poverty. on 17:18 - Nov 21 by LeonWasGod |
They haven't got a clue have they? I haven't a clue, but at least I recognise that someone who's very likely to be living in social or rented housing, probably with a big family (as these caps hit those families the hardest), may not either (a) have the space to rent, (b) be allowed to sublet, and/or (c) even if they have/are, be able to offer a private, quiet space that is attractive to a lodger. |
Even if they are allowed and have suitable space, if they take a lodger in the income means their benefits will probably be cut, depending on the benefit received.
This Tomlinson is an even bigger dick than Moby Dick, Biggus Dickus (of Monty Python) or Bojo and pals. | |
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| The Tories have deliberately increased poverty. on 18:52 - Nov 21 with 1414 views | bluey_the_blue |
| The Tories have deliberately increased poverty. on 09:56 - Nov 21 by Jack_Meoff |
Fair enough bluey. I thought it was aimed at me. Apologies for that.
Thing is with UC though is that it isn't a new idea or concept, not by any stretch. It's been investigated before by previous governments (couldn't say off hand which ones) who came to the conclusion that the infrastructure/ technology didn't exist. It just didn't work.I know things have moved on in that regard but IDS was warned about this, but he was determined to plough ahead anyway, despite the myriad of problems coming to the fore very quickly. There's MPs from both sides of the HoC that have spoken out about it. Still, they roll it out regardless.
People having to wait, what is it six weeks for payment (or was it reduced to five)? Then there's the increasingly draconian sanctions regime. People deliberately targeted; there was letters a few years ago posted online that DWP bosses were to hit certain sanction targets a month. That's just hideous. Then they'll use these skewed figures to claim unemployment is down when there's more to it than that; and that's without looking at the kind of jobs people are creating these days since the UK's industries were sold for a song. (Another topic entirely!)
I agree with your point about disabled people and help to work. Absolutely. However If you think the Tories will ever do anything other than kick their crutches away (metaphorically or otherwise) then you're very deluded mate. |
No need to apologise, but accepted none the less.
Having works numerous times with public sector IT... I think it's safer to say the technology exists, infrastructure could certainly be put in place but successive governments / agencies have been swayed by the perceived benefits of outsourced systems... often to India and almost always bollocks.
Equally, in the pubic sector you find virtually everybody wants to become a stakeholder in a project and have their say. I well remember one meeting to discuss a draft change that needed doing - 20 people attended, only "techies" were a Business Analyst and myself as a developer. 10 different sections of the agency were involved, most who had f*ck all to do with anything... of 84 comments raised pointing out issues with the draft change, I'd raised 68.
I agree the time waiting for payment was wrong. Sanctions... I've no problem with sanctions as long as they are hitting the correct people. By that, I mean people making absolutely zero effort to look for work, not wanting to work, wanting a handout. That's obviously not the vast majority of people. | | | |
| The Tories have deliberately increased poverty. on 19:35 - Nov 21 with 1404 views | exiledclaseboy |
| The Tories have deliberately increased poverty. on 13:31 - Nov 21 by Catullus |
Well almost, they still get 14 days to try and win confidence back. In the case of our current 'great and good' we could be having these kind of votes more often because of the generally useless politicians we are stuck with.
As i posted before, none of the above would mostly have been a better choice. |
That 14 day period has never been tested, it’s a relatively new requirement of the Fixed Term Parliaments Act. In reality I’d imagine any government that loses a confidence vote would move for a general election. | |
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| The Tories have deliberately increased poverty. on 20:12 - Nov 21 with 1383 views | trampie |
The UK has been let down by consecutive Conservative and New Labour Governments, the report underlines what a bad state the UK state is in.
[Post edited 21 Nov 2018 20:19]
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| The Tories have deliberately increased poverty. on 21:04 - Nov 21 with 1370 views | Catullus |
| The Tories have deliberately increased poverty. on 19:35 - Nov 21 by exiledclaseboy |
That 14 day period has never been tested, it’s a relatively new requirement of the Fixed Term Parliaments Act. In reality I’d imagine any government that loses a confidence vote would move for a general election. |
I'm not so sure, Theresa May is a "bl00dy difficult woman" and a right stubborn moo to boot. She will not go easy into that good night! | |
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| The Tories have deliberately increased poverty. on 19:00 - Nov 26 with 1279 views | trampie |
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| The Tories have deliberately increased poverty. on 19:08 - Nov 26 with 1274 views | LeonWasGod |
| The Tories have deliberately increased poverty. on 20:12 - Nov 21 by trampie |
The UK has been let down by consecutive Conservative and New Labour Governments, the report underlines what a bad state the UK state is in.
[Post edited 21 Nov 2018 20:19]
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I’m no Labour fan, but you’ll find a lot of the metrics around poverty (and performance of front line public services) improved under their watch and have worsened significantly under the Tories. | | | |
| The Tories have deliberately increased poverty. on 19:11 - Nov 26 with 1262 views | trampie |
The Russian view. | |
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| The Tories have deliberately increased poverty. on 19:12 - Nov 26 with 1254 views | trampie |
The American view. | |
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