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I had the misplaced belief that our politicsl classes would enact the will of the people. What I didn't foresee was that a majority of politicians with the help of some remainers of various guises would so effectively undermine the process that an entirely rubbish deal would be the outcome, entirely rubbish of course being a massive understatement. Make no mistake about it, this is a massive blow to democracy. Why bother voting when afterwards the will of the people is taken as a thing to be ignored, manipulated and then, when the deal is done claim it's what the people voted for? I still believe the EU is undemocratic and Verhofstadts speech signals their future intentions. I hope the future I imagine doesn't come about because the thing that Europhiles love to claim (that the EU has kept the peace in Europe) could end up being the opposite of the truth. I forsee civil unrest as anti EU sentiment becomes more powerful. I foresee the Franco/German political alliance causing problems, especially when the EU army is formed. I foresee the NHS being privatised and I don't foresee the UK gaining anything like the benefits that Germany has grasped from all of this. We're more likely to see the end of a state pension than a massive rise in it and industry will continue to be sucked out of our country to be replaced with dead end jobs. Ultimately I can only hope that all of that doesn't come to pass and the fears of many leavers prove entirely unfounded. However faced with a change of mind where leaving is still a possibility or accepting a deal where we may never be allowed to leave, what choice do I have? No deal is bad for everyone and I'd suggest, not just Europe. It could destabilise the Western democracies and embolden the Russians and Chinese. In simple terms we are between a rock and a hard place but at least the hard place has an escape pod.
We have lost a lot of manufactoring base over the last 40 years and I expected us to lose more with Brexit, but the extent of those potential loses is a lot more than I anticipated. I suspect May and (some of) her government have decided that losing what’s left of the car industry is a huge price to pay. We hear about fishing, that’s worth about a £1bn a year while the car industry exports are at least 20 times more and employ a lot more people.
I wonder if tax changes was a driver behind Brexit. I am not saying the below article is right, but there may be something in it.
My personal view is that a lot of people voted leave because they have had enough of austerity, hardly any increase in pay for a number of years, seeing house prices to the extent youngsters are being priced out of the market and they wanted to send a message to the politicians that they have had enough. Politicians are mostly lying ...........
We have lost a lot of manufactoring base over the last 40 years and I expected us to lose more with Brexit, but the extent of those potential loses is a lot more than I anticipated. I suspect May and (some of) her government have decided that losing what’s left of the car industry is a huge price to pay. We hear about fishing, that’s worth about a £1bn a year while the car industry exports are at least 20 times more and employ a lot more people.
I wonder if tax changes was a driver behind Brexit. I am not saying the below article is right, but there may be something in it.
My personal view is that a lot of people voted leave because they have had enough of austerity, hardly any increase in pay for a number of years, seeing house prices to the extent youngsters are being priced out of the market and they wanted to send a message to the politicians that they have had enough. Politicians are mostly lying ...........
That article could be right about some people's reasons. I have given my reasons which do not match those in the article and I doubt that the many Labour supporters who chose leave were worried about regulatory powers over tax. In fact many, like myself would be much happier to see corporate tax evasion stamped down on, nearly as happy as getting a fair pay rise. I wonder if that article is fair or just another hatchet job. However, it is fair to say that my distrust of all politicians means I wouldn't rule it out. As I have said often enough, the only people all in it together are the politicians and power brokers. They lie, cheat and steal then tell us what we must do, hypocrites all.
What do you mean "we could have had the Canada deal"? May turned it down because it wasn't what She and the Globalists wanted. I dare say that many Brexiteers would have accepted that deal.
The Canada deal option is available. TM turned it down because she doesn't want to rip up the good Friday agreement or split up the union.
The way i see it, the current deal she's proposing is there to buy time until a suitable solution is found to the the Irish border problem.
Its got nothing to do with "globalists" or whatever that means.
I'm sure Brexiteers would go for the Canada++++++ type deal, but so far i haven't heard any sensible solution to the Irish border other than pretending the problem doesn't exist, or using technology that doesn't yet exist.
Well having voted leave and stuck up for it, I still believe we need to leave for the best future for this country. However, the current situation is such a clusterfeck, a disster of massive proportions that only truly incompetent and/or entirely self serving politicians could have arranged that the decision is very clear to me, we need to retract A50 (assuming we can) and remain on the current terms. Looking at the proposed deal, it's utterly ridiculous. A backstop arrangement that could mean we will never be allowed to leave with no say in the running of those who control us. Leaving under a no deal could be plunging the country into social unrest though maybe we need a bit of a rebellion to rid this country of our sh/te ruling classes! So the pragmatic choice is to withdraw A50 and remain. At least with the rules we currently have we could trigger A50 again in the future. Maybe after the EU has demanded more powers be transferred and the EU army is being used by the unelected leaders to quieten any dissenters people will change their minds. Or maybe that future won't happen and we'll all live happily ever after? Either way, however it happens, we cannot accept this deal OR a no deal scenario that really could rip this country apart. I'm not surprised May won't allow the full legal advice to be given out. She cannot admit that her deal is the worst of all worlds. So, it's another referendum and I am fairly certain a sizeable number of leavers would agree with me that we need to choose remain. It's the most sensible choice we can make.
And NO, this is not a mickey take nor a sarcastic riposte. I honestly think we need to do it or the outcome will be disastrous. I still think we need to cut the number of politicians and as I said before (somewhat sarcastically admittedly, but not now) would we be any worse off being run by the Eu than we are under these hopeless British politicians?
Another pretend Leave voter who’s all of a sudden become a hardcore Remainer.. Have you ever considered the process is being deliberately prolonged and complicated to push the gullible into voting Remain?
Another pretend Leave voter who’s all of a sudden become a hardcore Remainer.. Have you ever considered the process is being deliberately prolonged and complicated to push the gullible into voting Remain?
Oh I did. What I didn't expect was to be presented with a deal that contained a clause that could tie us to the EU forever unless we roll over and give them everything. France will veto us leaving unless we hand over fishing rights, Spain will veto unless we concede Gibraltar and I can't even imagine what other demands there will be. This isn't a U turn, it's a sell out, our own government has sold us out. May says this is the best deal when in reality it's nothing but a surrender. Better to wait and see than give up our right to decide for ourselves when we can leave. One day all these remainers will see it for themselves. The EU is busy empire building, they are creating a desert and calling it peace but one day there will be a sandstorm.
They’ve deliberately sold us out knowing that literally nobody will accept it. The inevitable destination is a losers... sorry, people’s vote with no deal or remain as the two options. It’s a big risk as no deal might win again but then they’d just find some other way to keep us in.
The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Another pretend Leave voter who’s all of a sudden become a hardcore Remainer.. Have you ever considered the process is being deliberately prolonged and complicated to push the gullible into voting Remain?
A pretend leave voter? Oh FFS mun. There are none so blind....
They’ve deliberately sold us out knowing that literally nobody will accept it. The inevitable destination is a losers... sorry, people’s vote with no deal or remain as the two options. It’s a big risk as no deal might win again but then they’d just find some other way to keep us in.
And keep us in they should.
I'm not surprised though that you were dull enough to actually believe everything that was written on the side of a f ucking big bus.
The Govt said that it was a once in a generation vote, there would be NO 2nd referendum.
They would act on the will of the people.
What can't remainers understand about those points?
Whilst I am generally appalled by the antics of those who attempt to re-cast the initial referendum as a travesty of truth and natural justice when the exact reverse is the reality, I would be inclined to have another referendum because I think Leavers are even more deluded in thinking they’d win than they were last time. I’m also now convinced that an option for No Deal would be better than leaving it to the self-interested mob in Parliament. Bring it on.
"Yossarian- the very sight of the name made him shudder.There were so many esses in it. It just had to be subversive" (Catch 22)
I saw him on the circle line platform at Paddington tube station last week. He was mumbling to himself animatedly while striding up and down the platform the whole time we were waiting for the train to turn up. I don’t think he’s very well.
I saw him on the circle line platform at Paddington tube station last week. He was mumbling to himself animatedly while striding up and down the platform the whole time we were waiting for the train to turn up. I don’t think he’s very well.
I saw him on the circle line platform at Paddington tube station last week. He was mumbling to himself animatedly while striding up and down the platform the whole time we were waiting for the train to turn up. I don’t think he’s very well.
John fwcin Redwood
How any welshman (or woman) alive can support that pric is a debate in itself
Lord_Jack increasingly detached from the riches of kicking a ball
Another pretend Leave voter who’s all of a sudden become a hardcore Remainer.. Have you ever considered the process is being deliberately prolonged and complicated to push the gullible into voting Remain?
Look at his posts whenever a post on the subject has been made...
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan
Another pretend Leave voter who’s all of a sudden become a hardcore Remainer.. Have you ever considered the process is being deliberately prolonged and complicated to push the gullible into voting Remain?
“push the gullible into voting remain” 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
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