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The 'Democracy' thread. 11:30 - Dec 12 with 10258 viewsItchySphincter

Brexit - No, you can't have a second vote because you don't like it anymore, it's undemocratic.

Tory Party - Yes, we can vote out the PM that we voted in twice because we don't like her anymore, that's democracy.


‘……. like a moth to Itchy’s flame ……’
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The 'Democracy' thread. on 08:52 - Dec 13 with 1321 viewsBatterseajack

The 'Democracy' thread. on 08:49 - Dec 13 by waynekerr55

But there's a technological solution, apparently...


Maybe a self service check out along the border 🤷‍♂️
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The 'Democracy' thread. on 09:13 - Dec 13 with 1306 viewsJango

The 'Democracy' thread. on 08:49 - Dec 13 by Batterseajack

Had May lost last nights vote, the next PM of Great Britain would have been selected by conservative members, who are predominantly old, wealthy, white people from the south east of England. Democracy eh


Those old, wealthy, white people from south east England voted for May though so that kind of contradicts you.
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The 'Democracy' thread. on 09:22 - Dec 13 with 1294 viewsCatullus

The 'Democracy' thread. on 21:39 - Dec 12 by exiledclaseboy

I’d love to live in your fantasy world aye. You look at things in front of you and see something completely different.

She’ll have to go if/when Parliament refuses to ratify her Brexit deal. She’s already lost the confidence of the House. All it needs is that vote to go against her and we’ll be in election territory.


This coming from someone who sees a referendum as inherently undemocratic. A basic definition of democracy,

democracy. A system of government in which power is vested in the people, who rule either directly or through freely elected representatives.

Taken from the Greek, Demos-the people, kratia-power or rule. So people power or people rule.
Yet you say giving the people a vote is undemocratic.

Then of course we have other democratic minded people on here saying things like don't let anyone over 65 vote, or don't let anyone who voted leave vote and of course the claim that only a small minority of people were actually bothered about the EU. A 72% turnout rubbishes the last bit, the first two things are the stuff of swivel eyed lunacy.
Give it 40/50 years then tell those now old people they can't vote simply because they are older. All their knowledge and life experience counts for nothing but young people obviously know everything?
So laid bare is a remainers true idea of democracy, anyone who disagrees with remain shouldn't be allowed to vote, how very authoritarian

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
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The 'Democracy' thread. on 09:34 - Dec 13 with 1276 viewssherpajacob

The 'Democracy' thread. on 09:22 - Dec 13 by Catullus

This coming from someone who sees a referendum as inherently undemocratic. A basic definition of democracy,

democracy. A system of government in which power is vested in the people, who rule either directly or through freely elected representatives.

Taken from the Greek, Demos-the people, kratia-power or rule. So people power or people rule.
Yet you say giving the people a vote is undemocratic.

Then of course we have other democratic minded people on here saying things like don't let anyone over 65 vote, or don't let anyone who voted leave vote and of course the claim that only a small minority of people were actually bothered about the EU. A 72% turnout rubbishes the last bit, the first two things are the stuff of swivel eyed lunacy.
Give it 40/50 years then tell those now old people they can't vote simply because they are older. All their knowledge and life experience counts for nothing but young people obviously know everything?
So laid bare is a remainers true idea of democracy, anyone who disagrees with remain shouldn't be allowed to vote, how very authoritarian


Burke

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The 'Democracy' thread. on 09:58 - Dec 13 with 1259 viewsCatullus

The 'Democracy' thread. on 09:34 - Dec 13 by sherpajacob

Burke


Intelligent response. Typically remainer in it's eloquence.

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
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The 'Democracy' thread. on 10:21 - Dec 13 with 1251 viewsBatterseajack

The 'Democracy' thread. on 09:13 - Dec 13 by Jango

Those old, wealthy, white people from south east England voted for May though so that kind of contradicts you.


What vote was this Jango? Enlighten me
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The 'Democracy' thread. on 10:35 - Dec 13 with 1244 viewsWarwickHunt

The 'Democracy' thread. on 08:49 - Dec 13 by waynekerr55

But there's a technological solution, apparently...


Unexpected item in the bagging area.
Unexpected item in the bagging area.
Unexpected item in the bagging area.
Unexpected item in the bagging area.

Please wait for assistance.
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The 'Democracy' thread. on 10:43 - Dec 13 with 1239 viewsWarwickHunt

The 'Democracy' thread. on 09:58 - Dec 13 by Catullus

Intelligent response. Typically remainer in it's eloquence.


Oh dear. He was referring to Edmund Burke rather than Berk (Berkeley Hunt - Cockney rhyming slang...).
No apostrophe for the possessive pronoun either, please.

Intelligent response? Berk...
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The 'Democracy' thread. on 10:51 - Dec 13 with 1227 viewsGreatBritton

The 'Democracy' thread. on 10:43 - Dec 13 by WarwickHunt

Oh dear. He was referring to Edmund Burke rather than Berk (Berkeley Hunt - Cockney rhyming slang...).
No apostrophe for the possessive pronoun either, please.

Intelligent response? Berk...


Quite right. Though if I was being pedantic (the gods forfend!) I'd have to point out that it's Berkshire not Berkeley, which I believe is in California
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The 'Democracy' thread. on 11:10 - Dec 13 with 1218 viewsItchySphincter

The 'Democracy' thread. on 09:22 - Dec 13 by Catullus

This coming from someone who sees a referendum as inherently undemocratic. A basic definition of democracy,

democracy. A system of government in which power is vested in the people, who rule either directly or through freely elected representatives.

Taken from the Greek, Demos-the people, kratia-power or rule. So people power or people rule.
Yet you say giving the people a vote is undemocratic.

Then of course we have other democratic minded people on here saying things like don't let anyone over 65 vote, or don't let anyone who voted leave vote and of course the claim that only a small minority of people were actually bothered about the EU. A 72% turnout rubbishes the last bit, the first two things are the stuff of swivel eyed lunacy.
Give it 40/50 years then tell those now old people they can't vote simply because they are older. All their knowledge and life experience counts for nothing but young people obviously know everything?
So laid bare is a remainers true idea of democracy, anyone who disagrees with remain shouldn't be allowed to vote, how very authoritarian


It wasn't really a suggestion but its worthy of discussion that a huge number of those who vote out now will be the least affected by it. Our children are already paying the price for the irresponsibility of older generations with things like final salary pensions and privatisation of national industry or the selling off of council homes, and now that generation wants to add another layer of pain for those that will follow when they are dead. That's not democracy.

If you're not an independently wealthy Tory you've been duped mate.

I get the argument about bureaucracy, unelected officials and European Armies and I don't disagree with it, but we'd be better fighting it from the inside. It's obvious to see.

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The 'Democracy' thread. on 11:12 - Dec 13 with 1216 viewsWarwickHunt

The 'Democracy' thread. on 10:51 - Dec 13 by GreatBritton

Quite right. Though if I was being pedantic (the gods forfend!) I'd have to point out that it's Berkshire not Berkeley, which I believe is in California


It's Gloucestershire, you berk...

https://www.berkeleyhunt.co.uk/
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The 'Democracy' thread. on 11:25 - Dec 13 with 1211 viewsJango

The 'Democracy' thread. on 10:21 - Dec 13 by Batterseajack

What vote was this Jango? Enlighten me


The one that was all over the news last night.
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The 'Democracy' thread. on 12:43 - Dec 13 with 1175 viewsBatterseajack

The 'Democracy' thread. on 11:25 - Dec 13 by Jango

The one that was all over the news last night.


Literally what the f**k are you talking about
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The 'Democracy' thread. on 13:06 - Dec 13 with 1155 viewssherpajacob

The 'Democracy' thread. on 09:58 - Dec 13 by Catullus

Intelligent response. Typically remainer in it's eloquence.


"Your representative owes you, not his industry only, but his judgment; and he betrays, instead of serving you, if he sacrifices it to your opinion."

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The 'Democracy' thread. on 13:18 - Dec 13 with 1149 viewslondonlisa2001

The 'Democracy' thread. on 07:31 - Dec 13 by Jango

I know why I voted tho. I also know why a lot of friends and work colleagues voted and it was nothing to do with what was on a bus or what a few politicians said in the run up to the vote.
You on the other hand have never understood and have never tried to understand. You just do as you always do claim anyone who thinks differently to you is a bit stupid.

Some opinion polls say, that some say different. Even someone as stupid as myself can work out they can’t be trusted.

It’s not my job to come up with ideas for the Irish border. You on the other hand have experience in every issue regarding brexit and know better than anyone involved. Anyone involved that you disagree with is again stupid. There are plenty of experts out there though that suggest it doesn’t need to be the issue that they are making it out as.


Ah, so you know why you and everyone else voted, I haven’t a clue why people voted as they did, and yet I’m the one that thinks I know better?

Brilliant.

And there aren’t ‘plenty of experts’ thinking the Ireland question doesn’t need to be an issue. There are plenty of chancers like Boris Johnson and JRM saying it’s not. Because they don’t care about anything other than their own personal ambition, wealth and power.

No one has been able to come up with an answer to the Ireland situation that doesn’t involve everyone on all sides being part of a customs union (whatever it is called). No one. They just shout ‘sort it out’ at the people they contemptuously write off as ‘remoaners’.

If your actual answer is you don’t give a crap about Northern Ireland and are happy for it to become part of the Republic, then admit it. But in which case you also have to admit that what you want involves breaking up the United Kingdom. I’m pretty sure you don’t ‘regain sovereignty’ by giving away a significant chunk of your own country.
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The 'Democracy' thread. on 14:09 - Dec 13 with 1119 viewsHumpty

The 'Democracy' thread. on 13:18 - Dec 13 by londonlisa2001

Ah, so you know why you and everyone else voted, I haven’t a clue why people voted as they did, and yet I’m the one that thinks I know better?

Brilliant.

And there aren’t ‘plenty of experts’ thinking the Ireland question doesn’t need to be an issue. There are plenty of chancers like Boris Johnson and JRM saying it’s not. Because they don’t care about anything other than their own personal ambition, wealth and power.

No one has been able to come up with an answer to the Ireland situation that doesn’t involve everyone on all sides being part of a customs union (whatever it is called). No one. They just shout ‘sort it out’ at the people they contemptuously write off as ‘remoaners’.

If your actual answer is you don’t give a crap about Northern Ireland and are happy for it to become part of the Republic, then admit it. But in which case you also have to admit that what you want involves breaking up the United Kingdom. I’m pretty sure you don’t ‘regain sovereignty’ by giving away a significant chunk of your own country.


Most leave voters would be happy to see the break up of the UK if it guaranteed Brexit according to polls.

That's how patriotic they are.
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The 'Democracy' thread. on 14:18 - Dec 13 with 1109 viewsProfessor

The 'Democracy' thread. on 11:12 - Dec 13 by WarwickHunt

It's Gloucestershire, you berk...

https://www.berkeleyhunt.co.uk/


The original Berkeley (pronounced Barkley) is indeed in Gloucestershire. It has a castle and the Edward Jenner (the inventor of vaccination*) House and Museum.

Berkeley is an area and Ivy League University of the San Francisco Bay Area.

Berk refers to Berkshire though



* in terms of Western medicine, though similar practices were known to Islamic Scholars.
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The 'Democracy' thread. on 14:24 - Dec 13 with 1105 viewsHighjack

The 'Democracy' thread. on 14:09 - Dec 13 by Humpty

Most leave voters would be happy to see the break up of the UK if it guaranteed Brexit according to polls.

That's how patriotic they are.


Polls are nearly always wrong.

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
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The 'Democracy' thread. on 14:27 - Dec 13 with 1099 viewslondonlisa2001

The 'Democracy' thread. on 14:24 - Dec 13 by Highjack

Polls are nearly always wrong.


What’s your solution to the Irish problem then highjack?
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The 'Democracy' thread. on 14:28 - Dec 13 with 1095 viewsA_Fans_Dad

The 'Democracy' thread. on 09:34 - Dec 13 by sherpajacob

Burke


Yes you are, how perceptive of you.
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The 'Democracy' thread. on 14:31 - Dec 13 with 1090 viewstrampie

https://www.thenational.scot/news/16969407.english-tories-happy-for-scotland-to-

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/brexit/shock-poll-finds-87-of-northern-i

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The 'Democracy' thread. on 15:04 - Dec 13 with 1068 viewsWarwickHunt

The 'Democracy' thread. on 14:18 - Dec 13 by Professor

The original Berkeley (pronounced Barkley) is indeed in Gloucestershire. It has a castle and the Edward Jenner (the inventor of vaccination*) House and Museum.

Berkeley is an area and Ivy League University of the San Francisco Bay Area.

Berk refers to Berkshire though



* in terms of Western medicine, though similar practices were known to Islamic Scholars.


Can be either apparently. All the Cockneys I know say it's Berkeley though. They'll also say berk-lee and bark-sher respectively.

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/berk
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The 'Democracy' thread. on 15:25 - Dec 13 with 1052 viewsHighjack

The 'Democracy' thread. on 14:27 - Dec 13 by londonlisa2001

What’s your solution to the Irish problem then highjack?


We’ve been through this before, the fact it’s a problem in the first place shows the ludicrousness of being in the EU. Nobody in the U.K. wants a border with Ireland. Nobody in Ireland wants one either. This is for reasons that far transcends trade rules, free market capitalism, tariffs etc. Yet a comittee of people in Brussels led by a drunkard who don’t give a monkeys toss about the people who have to live on the island of Ireland insist we have one to protect their market. Their priority is the market. Not the Irish people, not the people of Europe. The market.

The best solution would be for Ireland to leave too, and all the other countries too but that isn’t going to happen as Varadkar or whatever his name is would never allow a referendum because the people of Ireland are far too uninformed, thick, white, male, poor, old and racist to be trusted to make such an important decision.

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
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The 'Democracy' thread. on 16:18 - Dec 13 with 1019 viewssherpajacob

The 'Democracy' thread. on 15:25 - Dec 13 by Highjack

We’ve been through this before, the fact it’s a problem in the first place shows the ludicrousness of being in the EU. Nobody in the U.K. wants a border with Ireland. Nobody in Ireland wants one either. This is for reasons that far transcends trade rules, free market capitalism, tariffs etc. Yet a comittee of people in Brussels led by a drunkard who don’t give a monkeys toss about the people who have to live on the island of Ireland insist we have one to protect their market. Their priority is the market. Not the Irish people, not the people of Europe. The market.

The best solution would be for Ireland to leave too, and all the other countries too but that isn’t going to happen as Varadkar or whatever his name is would never allow a referendum because the people of Ireland are far too uninformed, thick, white, male, poor, old and racist to be trusted to make such an important decision.


"The best solution would be for Ireland to leave too"


a perfect example of why Brexit is undeliverable in any of the forms promised by vote leave campaigners.

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The 'Democracy' thread. on 16:22 - Dec 13 with 1014 viewssherpajacob

The 'Democracy' thread. on 09:58 - Dec 13 by Catullus

Intelligent response. Typically remainer in it's eloquence.


Ok,

Burke, Attlee and Thatcher.

I presume you've heard of at least one of them.

'I could not consent to the introduction into our national life of a device so alien to all our traditions as the referendum,” Clement Attlee

" referendums are a device of dictators and demagogues" Margaret Thatcher

Mrs May doing her very best to prove Mrs Thatcher correct on that last one.

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