| BREAKING!! Corbyn endorses campaign for second EU referendum! 22:23 - Jan 21 with 18621 views | ItchySphincter |
Buckle up folks!
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| BREAKING!! Corbyn endorses campaign for second EU referendum! on 22:26 - Jan 21 with 6690 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
75 percent of MPs were/are remainers, guess what happens next? |  |
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| BREAKING!! Corbyn endorses campaign for second EU referendum! on 22:31 - Jan 21 with 6672 views | Kilkennyjack |
| BREAKING!! Corbyn endorses campaign for second EU referendum! on 22:26 - Jan 21 by JACKMANANDBOY |
75 percent of MPs were/are remainers, guess what happens next? |
People get to vote on something that actual exists ?
Remember ‘have our cake and eat it’ , its turned into ‘stockpile your medicines and food’ ...
Yes its best to check, i would say ...
Nobody at all voted for ‘no deal’ did they ?
Thats down to the Maybot. |  |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| BREAKING!! Corbyn endorses campaign for second EU referendum! on 22:36 - Jan 21 with 6660 views | WarwickHunt |
| BREAKING!! Corbyn endorses campaign for second EU referendum! on 22:26 - Jan 21 by JACKMANANDBOY |
75 percent of MPs were/are remainers, guess what happens next? |
Common sense prevailing? Parliamentary democracy trumping an advisory plebiscite? 🇪🇺
Anyone have a link to this by the way? BBC saying a “carefully worded compromise” and no sign of a personal endorsement from the “leadership”.
Edit: another Corbyn fudge, as you were. [Post edited 21 Jan 2019 23:38]
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| BREAKING!! Corbyn endorses campaign for second EU referendum! on 22:47 - Jan 21 with 6636 views | howenjack |
Nobody voted for a deal either . We voted to leave . They haven't honoured the result of the first referendum and they are talking about a second one !!! |  | | |
| BREAKING!! Corbyn endorses campaign for second EU referendum! on 23:00 - Jan 21 with 6598 views | WarwickHunt |
| BREAKING!! Corbyn endorses campaign for second EU referendum! on 22:47 - Jan 21 by howenjack |
Nobody voted for a deal either . We voted to leave . They haven't honoured the result of the first referendum and they are talking about a second one !!! |
Look up “advisory”. While you’re there, look up “reality” too. | | | |
| BREAKING!! Corbyn endorses campaign for second EU referendum! on 23:14 - Jan 21 with 6570 views | hobo |
| BREAKING!! Corbyn endorses campaign for second EU referendum! on 22:47 - Jan 21 by howenjack |
Nobody voted for a deal either . We voted to leave . They haven't honoured the result of the first referendum and they are talking about a second one !!! |
Theresa May is pushing through another government vote on her deal too. Funny how you can have 2 votes in one thing but it's 'undemocratic' to have another referendum now that people know what they are voting for |  | | |
| BREAKING!! Corbyn endorses campaign for second EU referendum! on 23:16 - Jan 21 with 6568 views | howenjack |
| BREAKING!! Corbyn endorses campaign for second EU referendum! on 23:00 - Jan 21 by WarwickHunt |
Look up “advisory”. While you’re there, look up “reality” too. |
So if the result was advisory what was the point of having a referendum at all ?
I don't believe the result was advisory ; why go to all that trouble TV debates etc and 17 m people voting for something they had no chance of achieving? It was first past the post that's the British political system leave won , that's the reality you speak of .If remain won we wouldn't be having this debate .
Cheats never prosper. | | | |
| BREAKING!! Corbyn endorses campaign for second EU referendum! on 23:20 - Jan 21 with 6555 views | oh_tommy_tommy |
I smell a general election |  |
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| BREAKING!! Corbyn endorses campaign for second EU referendum! on 23:31 - Jan 21 with 6529 views | WarwickHunt |
| BREAKING!! Corbyn endorses campaign for second EU referendum! on 23:16 - Jan 21 by howenjack |
So if the result was advisory what was the point of having a referendum at all ?
I don't believe the result was advisory ; why go to all that trouble TV debates etc and 17 m people voting for something they had no chance of achieving? It was first past the post that's the British political system leave won , that's the reality you speak of .If remain won we wouldn't be having this debate .
Cheats never prosper. |
It. Was. Fûcking. Advisory. Not. Legally. Fûcking. Binding.
Look it up.
What was the point? To shut up the Tory Little Englanders. | | | |
| BREAKING!! Corbyn endorses campaign for second EU referendum! on 00:34 - Jan 22 with 6484 views | DJack |
| BREAKING!! Corbyn endorses campaign for second EU referendum! on 23:16 - Jan 21 by howenjack |
So if the result was advisory what was the point of having a referendum at all ?
I don't believe the result was advisory ; why go to all that trouble TV debates etc and 17 m people voting for something they had no chance of achieving? It was first past the post that's the British political system leave won , that's the reality you speak of .If remain won we wouldn't be having this debate .
Cheats never prosper. |
The facts and "what you believe" are two different things. |  |
| It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan |
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| BREAKING!! Corbyn endorses campaign for second EU referendum! on 04:59 - Jan 22 with 6414 views | AnotherJohn |
| BREAKING!! Corbyn endorses campaign for second EU referendum! on 23:00 - Jan 21 by WarwickHunt |
Look up “advisory”. While you’re there, look up “reality” too. |
I tried to look up 'advisory' in Hansard in the debates on the readings of the EU Referendum Bill. Surprisingly I could not find the word and wonder if anybody can please provide a reference as to where it was mentioned, The background document prepared by the House of Commons library isn't what I had in mind by the way.
I did find plenty of statements from all sides in the debates to the effect that a decision was being delegated to the voters and that the result would be respected. I suppose that was said when those who must be obeyed thought they could predict the outcome.
We all know that the EU Referendum Act lacked the explicit provision that would have made the result binding in law, but that was left very much in the background in the Parliamentary debates - the only reference I'm aware of came in one brief exchange in committee.
The famous authority on British constitutional law, A.V. Dicey, who recommended the referendum as a periodic antidote to machine party politics, must be spinning in his grave. [Post edited 22 Jan 2019 7:38]
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| BREAKING!! Corbyn endorses campaign for second EU referendum! on 08:16 - Jan 22 with 6308 views | jacktar |
| BREAKING!! Corbyn endorses campaign for second EU referendum! on 23:16 - Jan 21 by howenjack |
So if the result was advisory what was the point of having a referendum at all ?
I don't believe the result was advisory ; why go to all that trouble TV debates etc and 17 m people voting for something they had no chance of achieving? It was first past the post that's the British political system leave won , that's the reality you speak of .If remain won we wouldn't be having this debate .
Cheats never prosper. |
In the words of Winston Churchill "the best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.”
Those who believed the drivel spouted by the leave campaigners before the referendum who can't see that they were talking nonsense, need to take another look at what's happened since.
Second referendum ................ bring it on! |  |
| We shouldn't all be tarred with the same brush you know! |
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| BREAKING!! Corbyn endorses campaign for second EU referendum! on 08:28 - Jan 22 with 6287 views | AnotherJohn |
| BREAKING!! Corbyn endorses campaign for second EU referendum! on 08:16 - Jan 22 by jacktar |
In the words of Winston Churchill "the best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.”
Those who believed the drivel spouted by the leave campaigners before the referendum who can't see that they were talking nonsense, need to take another look at what's happened since.
Second referendum ................ bring it on! |
Here is another Churchillian quote:
At the bottom of all the tributes paid to democracy is the little man, walking into the little booth, with a little pencil, making a little cross on a little bit of paper–no amount of rhetoric or voluminous discussion can possibly diminish the overwhelming importance of that point. –House of Commons, 31 October 1944
This is a powerful counterpoint to those who say that Chavs and coffin-dodgers don't deserve a vote. They talk about a Peoples' Vote and in the same breathe deny that those who voted already were proper people. | | | |
| BREAKING!! Corbyn endorses campaign for second EU referendum! on 08:34 - Jan 22 with 6277 views | trinityann |
| BREAKING!! Corbyn endorses campaign for second EU referendum! on 08:16 - Jan 22 by jacktar |
In the words of Winston Churchill "the best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.”
Those who believed the drivel spouted by the leave campaigners before the referendum who can't see that they were talking nonsense, need to take another look at what's happened since.
Second referendum ................ bring it on! |
Both sides were spouting drivel in main media. Everything that has happened since has been orchestrated by politicians wanting to stay in EU. If there is a second referendum what is the point in voting in the future, If they are not happy with the voters they will just manipulate a different outcome. | | | |
| BREAKING!! Corbyn endorses campaign for second EU referendum! on 08:36 - Jan 22 with 6274 views | monmouth |
| BREAKING!! Corbyn endorses campaign for second EU referendum! on 08:28 - Jan 22 by AnotherJohn |
Here is another Churchillian quote:
At the bottom of all the tributes paid to democracy is the little man, walking into the little booth, with a little pencil, making a little cross on a little bit of paper–no amount of rhetoric or voluminous discussion can possibly diminish the overwhelming importance of that point. –House of Commons, 31 October 1944
This is a powerful counterpoint to those who say that Chavs and coffin-dodgers don't deserve a vote. They talk about a Peoples' Vote and in the same breathe deny that those who voted already were proper people. |
So they’ll vote against again then and settle the position without argument for ever based on reality not a fantasy. There’s no coming back from that. If you believe your words and your position then you would also back another referendum. Everyone I know that voted no says they would vote no again, so what are you afraid of?
Anything else would be condoning a fantasy vote for a seductive vision that simply cannot be delivered, no? Or are you saying you believe all the lies that previously supported no, or yes come to that? |  |
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| BREAKING!! Corbyn endorses campaign for second EU referendum! on 08:39 - Jan 22 with 6244 views | trampie |
| BREAKING!! Corbyn endorses campaign for second EU referendum! on 08:34 - Jan 22 by trinityann |
Both sides were spouting drivel in main media. Everything that has happened since has been orchestrated by politicians wanting to stay in EU. If there is a second referendum what is the point in voting in the future, If they are not happy with the voters they will just manipulate a different outcome. |
Did they not manipulate the Scottish referendum to just about get the result they wanted ? |  |
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| BREAKING!! Corbyn endorses campaign for second EU referendum! on 08:45 - Jan 22 with 6250 views | WarwickHunt |
| BREAKING!! Corbyn endorses campaign for second EU referendum! on 04:59 - Jan 22 by AnotherJohn |
I tried to look up 'advisory' in Hansard in the debates on the readings of the EU Referendum Bill. Surprisingly I could not find the word and wonder if anybody can please provide a reference as to where it was mentioned, The background document prepared by the House of Commons library isn't what I had in mind by the way.
I did find plenty of statements from all sides in the debates to the effect that a decision was being delegated to the voters and that the result would be respected. I suppose that was said when those who must be obeyed thought they could predict the outcome.
We all know that the EU Referendum Act lacked the explicit provision that would have made the result binding in law, but that was left very much in the background in the Parliamentary debates - the only reference I'm aware of came in one brief exchange in committee.
The famous authority on British constitutional law, A.V. Dicey, who recommended the referendum as a periodic antidote to machine party politics, must be spinning in his grave. [Post edited 22 Jan 2019 7:38]
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Here you go, sunshine - fill yer boots.
https://fullfact.org/europe/was-eu-referendum-advisory/
Edit: meant to reply to the other fella... [Post edited 22 Jan 2019 9:26]
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| BREAKING!! Corbyn endorses campaign for second EU referendum! on 08:50 - Jan 22 with 6248 views | howenjack |
| BREAKING!! Corbyn endorses campaign for second EU referendum! on 08:36 - Jan 22 by monmouth |
So they’ll vote against again then and settle the position without argument for ever based on reality not a fantasy. There’s no coming back from that. If you believe your words and your position then you would also back another referendum. Everyone I know that voted no says they would vote no again, so what are you afraid of?
Anything else would be condoning a fantasy vote for a seductive vision that simply cannot be delivered, no? Or are you saying you believe all the lies that previously supported no, or yes come to that? |
We went in on a lie in 72 . They dressed it up as a free trade organisation only (eec) Slowly but surely our democracy was taken from us through duplicitous politicians like Major ,Blair and Brown who were on the gravy train .This isn't about trade deals it's about a fight for national sovereignty . A fight to keep our independence .A fight to keep the unelected bureaucrats from taking over our laws and our country. Some things like freedom you cant put a price on .
Churchill in fact was not pro European. | | | |
| BREAKING!! Corbyn endorses campaign for second EU referendum! on 08:54 - Jan 22 with 6233 views | WarwickHunt |
| BREAKING!! Corbyn endorses campaign for second EU referendum! on 08:50 - Jan 22 by howenjack |
We went in on a lie in 72 . They dressed it up as a free trade organisation only (eec) Slowly but surely our democracy was taken from us through duplicitous politicians like Major ,Blair and Brown who were on the gravy train .This isn't about trade deals it's about a fight for national sovereignty . A fight to keep our independence .A fight to keep the unelected bureaucrats from taking over our laws and our country. Some things like freedom you cant put a price on .
Churchill in fact was not pro European. |
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| BREAKING!! Corbyn endorses campaign for second EU referendum! on 08:54 - Jan 22 with 6236 views | jacktar |
| BREAKING!! Corbyn endorses campaign for second EU referendum! on 08:50 - Jan 22 by howenjack |
We went in on a lie in 72 . They dressed it up as a free trade organisation only (eec) Slowly but surely our democracy was taken from us through duplicitous politicians like Major ,Blair and Brown who were on the gravy train .This isn't about trade deals it's about a fight for national sovereignty . A fight to keep our independence .A fight to keep the unelected bureaucrats from taking over our laws and our country. Some things like freedom you cant put a price on .
Churchill in fact was not pro European. |
"Churchill in fact was not pro European."
Well he didn't like the Germans much.  | |
| We shouldn't all be tarred with the same brush you know! |
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| BREAKING!! Corbyn endorses campaign for second EU referendum! on 08:54 - Jan 22 with 6234 views | AnotherJohn |
| BREAKING!! Corbyn endorses campaign for second EU referendum! on 08:36 - Jan 22 by monmouth |
So they’ll vote against again then and settle the position without argument for ever based on reality not a fantasy. There’s no coming back from that. If you believe your words and your position then you would also back another referendum. Everyone I know that voted no says they would vote no again, so what are you afraid of?
Anything else would be condoning a fantasy vote for a seductive vision that simply cannot be delivered, no? Or are you saying you believe all the lies that previously supported no, or yes come to that? |
Cameron was right about the perils of the 'neverendum'. Once you go for multiple sequential referendums all legitimacy is lost. The EU has a track record of trying again, but only until the right result is produced.
Many people had an opinion on the EU long before the dodgy campaign, with fibs on both sides, an expensive pamphlet shoved through every letter-box, and numerous bigwigs from Obama to Lagarde flown in to support the status quo. Those who have been on the Left for a long time will remember Labour's traditional position under Foot, Benn, Shore etcetera. It was only when there seemed to be no prospect of overturning Thatcherism that Kinnock et al began to see the EEC/EU as a way to defend social democratic policies. The problem is that rapidly became a bastion of neo-liberalism. Study the Stability and Growth Pact or the 'Six Pack', or better still ask a Greek.
There is something in 'the wisdom of crowds'. | | | |
| BREAKING!! Corbyn endorses campaign for second EU referendum! on 08:58 - Jan 22 with 6223 views | WarwickHunt |
| BREAKING!! Corbyn endorses campaign for second EU referendum! on 08:34 - Jan 22 by trinityann |
Both sides were spouting drivel in main media. Everything that has happened since has been orchestrated by politicians wanting to stay in EU. If there is a second referendum what is the point in voting in the future, If they are not happy with the voters they will just manipulate a different outcome. |
Using that reasoning, the party winning a GE should be in power forever.
You have to laugh at people complaining about voting being undemocratic.. | | | |
| BREAKING!! Corbyn endorses campaign for second EU referendum! on 09:01 - Jan 22 with 6219 views | WarwickHunt |
| BREAKING!! Corbyn endorses campaign for second EU referendum! on 08:54 - Jan 22 by AnotherJohn |
Cameron was right about the perils of the 'neverendum'. Once you go for multiple sequential referendums all legitimacy is lost. The EU has a track record of trying again, but only until the right result is produced.
Many people had an opinion on the EU long before the dodgy campaign, with fibs on both sides, an expensive pamphlet shoved through every letter-box, and numerous bigwigs from Obama to Lagarde flown in to support the status quo. Those who have been on the Left for a long time will remember Labour's traditional position under Foot, Benn, Shore etcetera. It was only when there seemed to be no prospect of overturning Thatcherism that Kinnock et al began to see the EEC/EU as a way to defend social democratic policies. The problem is that rapidly became a bastion of neo-liberalism. Study the Stability and Growth Pact or the 'Six Pack', or better still ask a Greek.
There is something in 'the wisdom of crowds'. |
Ironic that the Greeks should fûck themselves up the arse. I wonder if they have a word for it? | | | |
| BREAKING!! Corbyn endorses campaign for second EU referendum! on 09:02 - Jan 22 with 6200 views | trampie |
| BREAKING!! Corbyn endorses campaign for second EU referendum! on 08:54 - Jan 22 by AnotherJohn |
Cameron was right about the perils of the 'neverendum'. Once you go for multiple sequential referendums all legitimacy is lost. The EU has a track record of trying again, but only until the right result is produced.
Many people had an opinion on the EU long before the dodgy campaign, with fibs on both sides, an expensive pamphlet shoved through every letter-box, and numerous bigwigs from Obama to Lagarde flown in to support the status quo. Those who have been on the Left for a long time will remember Labour's traditional position under Foot, Benn, Shore etcetera. It was only when there seemed to be no prospect of overturning Thatcherism that Kinnock et al began to see the EEC/EU as a way to defend social democratic policies. The problem is that rapidly became a bastion of neo-liberalism. Study the Stability and Growth Pact or the 'Six Pack', or better still ask a Greek.
There is something in 'the wisdom of crowds'. |
Its why Labour are right wing and traitors to the working class and poor, Thatcher won the war - the up shot to avoid perpetual neo-liberal Labour and Conservative policies is the union state needs to be broken up and Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland need to go their own ways so there might be some hope of more socialist policies, English voters are dragging us down into the gutter. | |
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| BREAKING!! Corbyn endorses campaign for second EU referendum! on 09:05 - Jan 22 with 6217 views | AnotherJohn |
That is a remarkably lazy response that completely ignores the question I asked. I said in terms that we all know that the EU referendum Act lacked the specific provision that would have been needed to make it legally binding. What I asked someone to provide was a reference to a passage in the parliamentary debates that mentioned the advisory nature of the referendum. My point in other words was that the decision was not presented as advisory, even though the referendum did not bind Parliament in law.
I could provide a long string of quotes if you like from the debates where Hammond, Vaz, Benn and even Clark said they would honour the result, and indeed I posted such these quotes on this forum about two years ago. Have to go to work now. | | | |
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