| Sala aircrash,a catalogue of errors on 09:20 - Feb 26 with 2356 views | theloneranger |
| Sala aircrash,a catalogue of errors on 09:00 - Feb 26 by Jinxy |
Where in Sky's report does it state that the pilot was "only certified to fly visually"? Genuine question.
If this is the case, then of course it would be regarded as a key causal factor. In the OP link to Sky's report, I don't see that anywhere. I do see that he wanted to "maintain visibility", which is understandable as it would be preferable whether licensed to fly at night/low visibility or not.
If the report is public it would be interesting if someone can post a link. |
https://www.news.com.au/sport/football/british-pilots-desperate-bid-to-stop-plan |  |
| Everyday above ground ... Is a good day! 😎 |
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| Sala aircrash,a catalogue of errors on 09:40 - Feb 26 with 2331 views | valleyboy |
| Sala aircrash,a catalogue of errors on 19:53 - Feb 25 by LeonWasGod |
Er, no. Cardiff’s debt was £50m last summer after Tan converted another £50m+ to equity.
That, and comparisons to our debt (figures for which haven’t been released for 17/18), are completely irrelevant to this sad case though. |
The debt is to the owner of the club and in where no interest is paid on that debt
Tan has stated that he wants Cardiff City debt free and intends to do that in the next 2 years
The reason why it can’t be done sooner. Is that it would contravene the fair play rules that now governs football
If I was you, I would be worrying about Swansea City as they are in a huge mess, with no money man to help them to get out of the mess they are in |  | | |
| Sala aircrash,a catalogue of errors on 09:45 - Feb 26 with 2325 views | valleyboy |
| Sala aircrash,a catalogue of errors on 20:49 - Feb 25 by pencoedjack |
Bitter?
Not a chance our club would behave in the same manner. |
“Not a chance that our club would behave in the same manner”
Swansea City have only been sold down the river
Further more you don’t know much about the history of Swansea City as you wouldn’t have made such stupid remarks | | | |
| Sala aircrash,a catalogue of errors on 10:00 - Feb 26 with 2310 views | valleyboy |
| Sala aircrash,a catalogue of errors on 21:43 - Feb 25 by The_E20 |
There is not a single person at this club that was involved in the administration of the 80’s, get over it. It’s like blaming Angela Merkel for world war 2.
You may also need to take a closer look at your clubs debt, they have offset it against an unsaleable stadium which brings it to your heavily massaged figure. Also can you show me where our club is £70m in debt.
Thanks in advance. |
Why do you think that players were virtually given away in the summer if there was going to be no debt
Or do you think that because Swansea City made a profit in the last financial statement that there is no debt
I suggest you start reading some of the old accounts and look what’s underneath the headline figure
Why do you think the Trust’s Director can’t see the exact financial position of where the club is at present then???
The financial statement for last season should be out any day soon (or will it I wonder) but at least the accounts analysis will have a better picture of how much debt Swansea are in | | | |
| Sala aircrash,a catalogue of errors on 10:28 - Feb 26 with 2280 views | Jinxy |
Thank you - interesting (albeit sad). |  | | |
| Sala aircrash,a catalogue of errors on 10:43 - Feb 26 with 2259 views | LeonWasGod |
| Sala aircrash,a catalogue of errors on 09:40 - Feb 26 by valleyboy |
The debt is to the owner of the club and in where no interest is paid on that debt
Tan has stated that he wants Cardiff City debt free and intends to do that in the next 2 years
The reason why it can’t be done sooner. Is that it would contravene the fair play rules that now governs football
If I was you, I would be worrying about Swansea City as they are in a huge mess, with no money man to help them to get out of the mess they are in |
I posted to try and stop a scummer derailing the thread. No need for you to pick it up on their behalf. As I said, it's all irrelevant to this thread. |  | | |
| Sala aircrash,a catalogue of errors on 10:43 - Feb 26 with 2258 views | Jinxy |
| Sala aircrash,a catalogue of errors on 09:12 - Feb 26 by raynor94 |
Sorry I can't post the link, but the report states he could only fly vfr (visual) and not ifr(instrument flight rules) it was a disaster waiting to happen |
Ah, many thanks. Another poster kindly posted the link to an Argentine journalist's "claims", I believe. In it though he suggests the pilot "decided to" and "used" VFR and not IFR - so far it does not mention any licensing issues. The final report will confirm all that I imagine. If it transpires that he made an error of judgement as opposed to flouting licensing, certification and so on then I imagine liabilities, weighting and penalties may/will be apportioned differently, although I'm not conversant with aviation licensing, legislation, regulations etc. and certainly no expert!
Sad all round though isn't it. The holes in the Swiss cheese aligned fatally for Sala and the pilot (in all probability). I have a mate (he's normally very bright) who said to me "why can't these things all be concluded within a week?!". The devil's always in the detail, background factors, maintenance, conditions, fatigue (?), instrument failures, distractions, human error, decision making (based on available info), design, pressure (possibly from the club to attend training, albeit no-one would exert that kind of pressure if the consequences were to be fully considered in fairness) etc. etc.. The families will want firm conclusions of course, and they deserve at least that as part of their painful closure. | | | |
| Sala aircrash,a catalogue of errors on 10:48 - Feb 26 with 2247 views | LeonWasGod |
| Sala aircrash,a catalogue of errors on 10:28 - Feb 26 by Jinxy |
Thank you - interesting (albeit sad). |
When it was first reported, someone on here posted a link to a pilots forum. It made for very interesting reading. They'd speculated a lot of this, identified the plane, where it's registration was held, what rules it fell under, knew the pilot's registration status, etc. Generally the view was that it was risky, and likely that Sala had no idea how much so. A tragic, but completely avoidable disaster. | | | |
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| Sala aircrash,a catalogue of errors on 10:58 - Feb 26 with 2229 views | The_E20 |
| Sala aircrash,a catalogue of errors on 10:00 - Feb 26 by valleyboy |
Why do you think that players were virtually given away in the summer if there was going to be no debt
Or do you think that because Swansea City made a profit in the last financial statement that there is no debt
I suggest you start reading some of the old accounts and look what’s underneath the headline figure
Why do you think the Trust’s Director can’t see the exact financial position of where the club is at present then???
The financial statement for last season should be out any day soon (or will it I wonder) but at least the accounts analysis will have a better picture of how much debt Swansea are in |
Eh? Where did I say no debt? I said can someone show me the £70m debt. It’s a ludicrous figure that clearly is very unlikely. Feel free to show me how you think that the old accounts (?) suggest we now have a £70m debt.
I don’t think the Trust Director can see figures because the Trust Director refuses to see them when offered. |  | | |
| Sala aircrash,a catalogue of errors on 12:14 - Feb 26 with 2179 views | pencoedjack |
| Sala aircrash,a catalogue of errors on 09:45 - Feb 26 by valleyboy |
“Not a chance that our club would behave in the same manner”
Swansea City have only been sold down the river
Further more you don’t know much about the history of Swansea City as you wouldn’t have made such stupid remarks |
I was talking about begging for everyone's sympathy & then failing to pay for a player.
Don't let the facts get in the way. |  | | |
| Sala aircrash,a catalogue of errors on 12:16 - Feb 26 with 2176 views | Jinxy |
| Sala aircrash,a catalogue of errors on 10:48 - Feb 26 by LeonWasGod |
When it was first reported, someone on here posted a link to a pilots forum. It made for very interesting reading. They'd speculated a lot of this, identified the plane, where it's registration was held, what rules it fell under, knew the pilot's registration status, etc. Generally the view was that it was risky, and likely that Sala had no idea how much so. A tragic, but completely avoidable disaster. |
Interesting, and you are spot on regarding risk - and that's what risk assessment is truly all about eh. I know in a works environment it can be tedious, but in my view it should be applied, maybe not formally of course, elsewhere. I'm a nightmare at home! But I've seen a few fatalities, and led an investigation into one. I've never really come across an incident/accident, other than "acts of God" (although the effects can be anticipated/managed of course), that wasn't avoidable with adequate/appropriate thought and measures.
In hindsight (wonderful thing), as someone said earlier - taking off late, over the davy dark (in daylight risk surely much lower - visibility, even being found if the plane does go down on water etc.), in a small single engine (more risk there - no redundancy) plane, when surely the cold light of day, Sala's affordability for better, Cardiff's desire to protect their new expensive asset, commercial formalisation etc. etc., then maybe if all these things had been properly considered then maybe one of those swiss cheese holes would have been blocked and then no accident/incident.
I won't post on this thread any further (thanks guys for the interesting/intelligent debate and links etc.), as I can see that others wish to debate matters not related to the OP. | | | |
| Sala aircrash,a catalogue of errors on 12:58 - Feb 26 with 2131 views | valleyboy |
| Sala aircrash,a catalogue of errors on 12:14 - Feb 26 by pencoedjack |
I was talking about begging for everyone's sympathy & then failing to pay for a player.
Don't let the facts get in the way. |
As I said. You don’t much about Swansea City’s history
Can’t remember the buckets going around to collect money or has that been airbrushed from your memory
Collecting money in buckets
If that’s not begging. Then I don’t know what is | | | |
| Sala aircrash,a catalogue of errors on 13:00 - Feb 26 with 2128 views | valleyboy |
| Sala aircrash,a catalogue of errors on 10:43 - Feb 26 by LeonWasGod |
I posted to try and stop a scummer derailing the thread. No need for you to pick it up on their behalf. As I said, it's all irrelevant to this thread. |
Just stating facts that’s all
I don’t believe in fake news, whatever the circumstances | | | |
| Sala aircrash,a catalogue of error on 13:23 - Feb 26 with 2099 views | valleyboy |
| Sala aircrash,a catalogue of errors on 10:58 - Feb 26 by The_E20 |
Eh? Where did I say no debt? I said can someone show me the £70m debt. It’s a ludicrous figure that clearly is very unlikely. Feel free to show me how you think that the old accounts (?) suggest we now have a £70m debt.
I don’t think the Trust Director can see figures because the Trust Director refuses to see them when offered. |
Well look at the Assets against liabilities in the last financial statement and of course something between £50-£60million less income from Sky
Then how many of these transfer/loan dealings have been undisclosed
Most probably paying some of the wages for players that are out on loan
Most probably having to pay players that were still on contract to move on
I’m no accountant but speaking to someone that is an accountant and seen copies of the end of season accounts for the last couple of years and especially what has happened to the Swans since relegation. He wouldn’t be surprised if the figure is £70million if not more but will have a better idea when the new accounts are published
Even after last seasons accounts are published it’s not going to tell you the full story, because what I have written above
The reason why the Trust Director is not allowed to see the exact position the Swans are in. Is that he won’t sign this “confidentiality agreement”, as that would be pointless for him. In that he wouldn’t be allowed to report any financial information back to the Trust
Why do you think last years financial statement is late
I don’t suppose it has anything to do that Supporters will have a better idea in what shape financially the Swans are in | | | |
| Sala aircrash,a catalogue of error on 15:06 - Feb 26 with 2033 views | The_E20 |
| Sala aircrash,a catalogue of error on 13:23 - Feb 26 by valleyboy |
Well look at the Assets against liabilities in the last financial statement and of course something between £50-£60million less income from Sky
Then how many of these transfer/loan dealings have been undisclosed
Most probably paying some of the wages for players that are out on loan
Most probably having to pay players that were still on contract to move on
I’m no accountant but speaking to someone that is an accountant and seen copies of the end of season accounts for the last couple of years and especially what has happened to the Swans since relegation. He wouldn’t be surprised if the figure is £70million if not more but will have a better idea when the new accounts are published
Even after last seasons accounts are published it’s not going to tell you the full story, because what I have written above
The reason why the Trust Director is not allowed to see the exact position the Swans are in. Is that he won’t sign this “confidentiality agreement”, as that would be pointless for him. In that he wouldn’t be allowed to report any financial information back to the Trust
Why do you think last years financial statement is late
I don’t suppose it has anything to do that Supporters will have a better idea in what shape financially the Swans are in |
Undisclosed means you don’t know how much they have been sold for, not that they have been sold for nothing. Of course there was a shortfall, hence why we pretty much serviced it, unfortunately we weren’t able to sell the Ayews and Bony, meaning we are still liable for part of their wages no doubt plus the ongoing wages once returned... but we are talking current debt, not future debt should we be unable to sell/loan again.
But I did ask for evidence that there is a £70m debt attached to the club. Your response was to say you aren’t an accountant and make a load of guesses. Our current debt will be nowhere near £70m that much I can assure you of, not even half. | | | |
| Sala aircrash,a catalogue of errors on 16:01 - Feb 26 with 1993 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Sala aircrash,a catalogue of errors on 19:49 - Feb 25 by TWGL |
We are hardly a model club though are we ,afterall ,we slid into administration in the 80’s and the current board are hardly connecting with the supporters.
What’s our debt,£70m or something and the Basseys net debt is £10m as of 17/18.
I can sort of understand their compassion with the player they lost. I compare it to when Jonny Owen the Boxer passed away . I’m not from Merhyr, didn’t know that man yet felt a profound sense of loss. |
Not sure I would agree with Cardiff's net debt of £10 million as per BBC report. It also states they still owe £79 million to tan and £22 million to a third party. That makes £100 million they owe. Unless the have assets of £90 million can't see how they come up with their net debt figures from. | |
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| Sala aircrash,a catalogue of errors on 16:06 - Feb 26 with 1990 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Sala aircrash,a catalogue of errors on 21:16 - Feb 25 by dickythorpe |
Warnock was chopsing about some injured player earlier "listening to every Tom, dick and Harry or foreigner"
Not the most tactful is he!!?? |
What Colin also mentioned he played the player when he was injured. As the player is only on loan to Cardiff the parent club are entitled to ask their own medical staff to look after their asset. | |
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| Sala aircrash,a catalogue of errors on 16:29 - Feb 26 with 1961 views | pencoedjack |
| Sala aircrash,a catalogue of errors on 12:58 - Feb 26 by valleyboy |
As I said. You don’t much about Swansea City’s history
Can’t remember the buckets going around to collect money or has that been airbrushed from your memory
Collecting money in buckets
If that’s not begging. Then I don’t know what is |
Ah, the famous I'm a Bassey & I chucked money in a bucket for Swansea line.
If every Bassey I have ever heard say they chucked money in a bucket, we 'd be richer than Man City.
Best you fuk off to your own board & try to justify not paying for a player you've been craving pity about for many weeks. | | | |
| Sala aircrash,a catalogue of error on 16:50 - Feb 26 with 1936 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Sala aircrash,a catalogue of error on 13:23 - Feb 26 by valleyboy |
Well look at the Assets against liabilities in the last financial statement and of course something between £50-£60million less income from Sky
Then how many of these transfer/loan dealings have been undisclosed
Most probably paying some of the wages for players that are out on loan
Most probably having to pay players that were still on contract to move on
I’m no accountant but speaking to someone that is an accountant and seen copies of the end of season accounts for the last couple of years and especially what has happened to the Swans since relegation. He wouldn’t be surprised if the figure is £70million if not more but will have a better idea when the new accounts are published
Even after last seasons accounts are published it’s not going to tell you the full story, because what I have written above
The reason why the Trust Director is not allowed to see the exact position the Swans are in. Is that he won’t sign this “confidentiality agreement”, as that would be pointless for him. In that he wouldn’t be allowed to report any financial information back to the Trust
Why do you think last years financial statement is late
I don’t suppose it has anything to do that Supporters will have a better idea in what shape financially the Swans are in |
Last year's accounts are not late our financial year ends 31st July as opposed to most clubs 31st May. I would expect to our accounts to be two months after most clubs. Cardiff have only just published their accounts. | |
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| Sala aircrash,a catalogue of error on 17:17 - Feb 26 with 1887 views | valleyboy |
| Sala aircrash,a catalogue of error on 15:06 - Feb 26 by The_E20 |
Undisclosed means you don’t know how much they have been sold for, not that they have been sold for nothing. Of course there was a shortfall, hence why we pretty much serviced it, unfortunately we weren’t able to sell the Ayews and Bony, meaning we are still liable for part of their wages no doubt plus the ongoing wages once returned... but we are talking current debt, not future debt should we be unable to sell/loan again.
But I did ask for evidence that there is a £70m debt attached to the club. Your response was to say you aren’t an accountant and make a load of guesses. Our current debt will be nowhere near £70m that much I can assure you of, not even half. |
Not sold for nothing????
Let’s just take one player for example
Clucas
Bought from Hull for £15million plus
Sold to Stoke for £6million with Swansea having to pay him to go and that’s besides paying some of his wages
Still paying Hull for part of his transfer fee
That’s just one player
There’s at least another five players that Swansea are forking out money to
This black hole is not future debt that is being talked about but what the debt is now | | | |
| Sala aircrash,a catalogue of errors on 18:54 - Feb 26 with 1817 views | thornabyswan |
| Sala aircrash,a catalogue of errors on 16:29 - Feb 26 by pencoedjack |
Ah, the famous I'm a Bassey & I chucked money in a bucket for Swansea line.
If every Bassey I have ever heard say they chucked money in a bucket, we 'd be richer than Man City.
Best you fuk off to your own board & try to justify not paying for a player you've been craving pity about for many weeks. |
Only one thing worse than a Bassey gloating on a Swansea forum.
And that's a Bassey that used to be a Jack posting on a Swans forum.
I suspect he will be back when we overtake them.in the League a bit odd if you ask me. [Post edited 26 Feb 2019 18:58]
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| Sala aircrash,a catalogue of error on 20:08 - Feb 26 with 1725 views | mahoss |
| Sala aircrash,a catalogue of error on 17:17 - Feb 26 by valleyboy |
Not sold for nothing????
Let’s just take one player for example
Clucas
Bought from Hull for £15million plus
Sold to Stoke for £6million with Swansea having to pay him to go and that’s besides paying some of his wages
Still paying Hull for part of his transfer fee
That’s just one player
There’s at least another five players that Swansea are forking out money to
This black hole is not future debt that is being talked about but what the debt is now |
Everton for you tonight isn't it ?
You need some points pronto by looks of it.
We,ll watch with interest,getting very twitchy 😀 | | | |
| Sala aircrash,a catalogue of errors on 21:23 - Feb 26 with 1653 views | valleyboy |
| Sala aircrash,a catalogue of errors on 18:54 - Feb 26 by thornabyswan |
Only one thing worse than a Bassey gloating on a Swansea forum.
And that's a Bassey that used to be a Jack posting on a Swans forum.
I suspect he will be back when we overtake them.in the League a bit odd if you ask me. [Post edited 26 Feb 2019 18:58]
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Do you honestly think there will be a Football League club left in Swansea in the foreseeable future???
If you do, you have much more confidence than I have
The way Football is going, it’s unsustainable and clubs will go to the wall, especially with supporters demanding promotion or they will stay away | | | |
| Sala aircrash,a catalogue of error on 21:31 - Feb 26 with 1641 views | valleyboy |
| Sala aircrash,a catalogue of error on 20:08 - Feb 26 by mahoss |
Everton for you tonight isn't it ?
You need some points pronto by looks of it.
We,ll watch with interest,getting very twitchy 😀 |
In all the years I’ve watched football. There’s nearly always a team with say 10-12 games to go, that falls down the table like a stone dropping down a mine shaft
Could this team be Brighton this season | | | |
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