| New chairman - Trevor Birch? 21:23 - Mar 9 with 40502 views | NeathJack |
[Post edited 9 Mar 2019 21:27]
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| New chairman - Trevor Birch? on 16:11 - Mar 11 with 2947 views | Uxbridge |
| New chairman - Trevor Birch? on 13:56 - Mar 11 by chad |
Would it not be more logical to keep them in our club, until the legal action is resolved. It certainly would make it hard to sell anyway
My agenda is fairness and honesty and what is best to protect the future of professional football in Swansea.
Why would wanting to ensure people (real or imaginary) are not allowed to sign up to the Trust and vote merely to protect the sellouts and new majority owners from legal action and the strong likelihood of having to cough up over £21m plus expenses be something you would want to shut up
Why would you condone abuse and lies from a Trust official merely because I suggested at a meeting that any interested members from all viewpoints should be briefly allowed to review the voting papers to ensure the bias of last time, that even Lisa made very clear, is not repeated. That it fairy represents all the main arguments and concerns re any options we are able to select from. In fact that would be very prudent to protect the Trust from the same accusations |
I hope you're not implying I've been abusive or lying Spratty. That's very poor form. Imagine if I'd accused you of being abusive and lying? How do you think you would react? Credibility cuts both ways, and if you're going to chuck baseless allegations out then it's pretty difficult to have the sort of civil dialogue, based on fairness and honesty, that you say you want.
I've given my reasons why I think it's inappropriate for you to be involved in the drafting and review process. You don't resolve allegations (and they were just that, not actual demonstrable facts) of bias by introducing more. Let's be honest here, your view is set. Nothing wrong with that, I'm sure it's the case for many people, and for all sorts of valid reasons.
My view is that the elected board is far more representative of the wide range of views amongst the fanbase than was probably the case in 2017 (oh the halcyon days where I was on the militant fringe!) and I'd view it as far more appropriate that they prepare and review the documentation. You specifically mention Lisa in the below post, well she'd be involved in that process.
On the membership front, I'm not really following your point. Do you want to close the membership now? Does it need to be retrospective? How do you determine who, amongst the membership, is fit to vote? Like it or no, the Trust is a members organisation, and the Trust has a responsibility to its members in that regard. Difficult to quantify who is joining the Trust for what are the right reasons, and I dare say many of us would have differing views on what those "right reasons" actually are.
Happy to have a civil discussion with you on this Spratty, on or off this here site, but lay off the baseless insults, especially if you're going to cry foul when they're returned, as you have with Lisa. |  |
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| New chairman - Trevor Birch? on 17:28 - Mar 11 with 2806 views | monmouth |
| New chairman - Trevor Birch? on 16:11 - Mar 11 by Uxbridge |
I hope you're not implying I've been abusive or lying Spratty. That's very poor form. Imagine if I'd accused you of being abusive and lying? How do you think you would react? Credibility cuts both ways, and if you're going to chuck baseless allegations out then it's pretty difficult to have the sort of civil dialogue, based on fairness and honesty, that you say you want.
I've given my reasons why I think it's inappropriate for you to be involved in the drafting and review process. You don't resolve allegations (and they were just that, not actual demonstrable facts) of bias by introducing more. Let's be honest here, your view is set. Nothing wrong with that, I'm sure it's the case for many people, and for all sorts of valid reasons.
My view is that the elected board is far more representative of the wide range of views amongst the fanbase than was probably the case in 2017 (oh the halcyon days where I was on the militant fringe!) and I'd view it as far more appropriate that they prepare and review the documentation. You specifically mention Lisa in the below post, well she'd be involved in that process.
On the membership front, I'm not really following your point. Do you want to close the membership now? Does it need to be retrospective? How do you determine who, amongst the membership, is fit to vote? Like it or no, the Trust is a members organisation, and the Trust has a responsibility to its members in that regard. Difficult to quantify who is joining the Trust for what are the right reasons, and I dare say many of us would have differing views on what those "right reasons" actually are.
Happy to have a civil discussion with you on this Spratty, on or off this here site, but lay off the baseless insults, especially if you're going to cry foul when they're returned, as you have with Lisa. |
I think if I was of an American persuasion I might have been considering paying out a few hundred tenners to buy a few hundred votes. Not sure how that risk should be managed nor how likely it is in practice. I think they’d be nuts not to think about it though. |  |
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| New chairman - Trevor Birch? on 18:18 - Mar 11 with 2724 views | chad |
| New chairman - Trevor Birch? on 16:11 - Mar 11 by Uxbridge |
I hope you're not implying I've been abusive or lying Spratty. That's very poor form. Imagine if I'd accused you of being abusive and lying? How do you think you would react? Credibility cuts both ways, and if you're going to chuck baseless allegations out then it's pretty difficult to have the sort of civil dialogue, based on fairness and honesty, that you say you want.
I've given my reasons why I think it's inappropriate for you to be involved in the drafting and review process. You don't resolve allegations (and they were just that, not actual demonstrable facts) of bias by introducing more. Let's be honest here, your view is set. Nothing wrong with that, I'm sure it's the case for many people, and for all sorts of valid reasons.
My view is that the elected board is far more representative of the wide range of views amongst the fanbase than was probably the case in 2017 (oh the halcyon days where I was on the militant fringe!) and I'd view it as far more appropriate that they prepare and review the documentation. You specifically mention Lisa in the below post, well she'd be involved in that process.
On the membership front, I'm not really following your point. Do you want to close the membership now? Does it need to be retrospective? How do you determine who, amongst the membership, is fit to vote? Like it or no, the Trust is a members organisation, and the Trust has a responsibility to its members in that regard. Difficult to quantify who is joining the Trust for what are the right reasons, and I dare say many of us would have differing views on what those "right reasons" actually are.
Happy to have a civil discussion with you on this Spratty, on or off this here site, but lay off the baseless insults, especially if you're going to cry foul when they're returned, as you have with Lisa. |
No absolutely fair Ux I have most definitely accused you of lying and as I say in my world that is a very serious allegation so when I get chance I will dig out the relevant posts it is only right.
BTW I never requested members be involved in the drafting process at any time nor a number of other false claims you make.
I am surprised you are happy for Lisa to be involved given her own documented vociferous opposition to the deal and very clear claims of strong bias. How would that view be any different to mine.
However I refuse to believe you do not understand the importance of end user reviews. I have arrived at my conclusion on the best way forward after analytically evaluating the pros and cons and the potential impacts and ongoing outcomes of the options that were and now are available to us, and the characters of those involved. Against the primary aim of protecting the future of professional football in Swansea. Of which you and your cohorts failed fairly spectacularly in, on a number of counts last time, in the opinion of many.
I am amply competent to produce a balanced list of the main pros and cons and ongoing considerations based on the various options. However that is not the role I have suggested for any of the members myself no different.
Why would you fear review if you are such a balanced team and it is going to be so different this time it could only be positive and protect you from any complaints of bias going forward. However if you put yourselves above the capabilities of the other members then god help you if important omissions or bias is yet again found post issue. Especially when lessons should have been learned after the shambles of last time.
As far as membership, long before the last vote a membership freeze was promised to stop memberships being taken up just for the vote, which would have precluded the potential for the purchase of a vote result for a few thousand pounds. This did not happen in a timely manner. Perhaps no problem for the Trust Board as their poorly thought out recommendation supported the best interests of the sellouts and new majority owners. However you are aware as well as I of the massive % growth in the membership prior to the last vote and similar reduction afterwards. The inclusion of season ticket holders might at least ensure a broad reflection of actual particular interest.
But we could as a minimum check that the person actually exists.
Of course you choose to stamp on and brand disgraceful my attempt to debate a comment by an overseas member that they did not see it as their place to vote on what they saw as a local matter. Once again changing my words to discredit the desire for balanced opinion, which the Trust should welcome.
I think we can all be clear the Trust should be about protecting the long term objectives of protecting the future of professional football in Swansea. |  | | |
| New chairman - Trevor Birch? on 19:55 - Mar 11 with 2588 views | Vetchfielder |
| New chairman - Trevor Birch? on 16:11 - Mar 11 by Uxbridge |
I hope you're not implying I've been abusive or lying Spratty. That's very poor form. Imagine if I'd accused you of being abusive and lying? How do you think you would react? Credibility cuts both ways, and if you're going to chuck baseless allegations out then it's pretty difficult to have the sort of civil dialogue, based on fairness and honesty, that you say you want.
I've given my reasons why I think it's inappropriate for you to be involved in the drafting and review process. You don't resolve allegations (and they were just that, not actual demonstrable facts) of bias by introducing more. Let's be honest here, your view is set. Nothing wrong with that, I'm sure it's the case for many people, and for all sorts of valid reasons.
My view is that the elected board is far more representative of the wide range of views amongst the fanbase than was probably the case in 2017 (oh the halcyon days where I was on the militant fringe!) and I'd view it as far more appropriate that they prepare and review the documentation. You specifically mention Lisa in the below post, well she'd be involved in that process.
On the membership front, I'm not really following your point. Do you want to close the membership now? Does it need to be retrospective? How do you determine who, amongst the membership, is fit to vote? Like it or no, the Trust is a members organisation, and the Trust has a responsibility to its members in that regard. Difficult to quantify who is joining the Trust for what are the right reasons, and I dare say many of us would have differing views on what those "right reasons" actually are.
Happy to have a civil discussion with you on this Spratty, on or off this here site, but lay off the baseless insults, especially if you're going to cry foul when they're returned, as you have with Lisa. |
You’ve got me worried now Ux.
“she’d be involved in that process”
This is written as if the voting documentation has not yet even been prepared.
If that’s the case does that mean the Trust is not going to meet its commitment for a March vote? |  |
| Proud to have been one of the 231 |
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| New chairman - Trevor Birch? on 21:14 - Mar 11 with 2511 views | Uxbridge |
| New chairman - Trevor Birch? on 19:55 - Mar 11 by Vetchfielder |
You’ve got me worried now Ux.
“she’d be involved in that process”
This is written as if the voting documentation has not yet even been prepared.
If that’s the case does that mean the Trust is not going to meet its commitment for a March vote? |
Until the button is pressed, it's a process to be completed. You shouldn't read anything I've written there as saying that nothing has been prepared. | |
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| New chairman - Trevor Birch? on 21:20 - Mar 11 with 2487 views | NeathJack |
| New chairman - Trevor Birch? on 21:14 - Mar 11 by Uxbridge |
Until the button is pressed, it's a process to be completed. You shouldn't read anything I've written there as saying that nothing has been prepared. |
What are we waiting for? | | | |
| New chairman - Trevor Birch? on 21:29 - Mar 11 with 2460 views | Uxbridge |
| New chairman - Trevor Birch? on 18:18 - Mar 11 by chad |
No absolutely fair Ux I have most definitely accused you of lying and as I say in my world that is a very serious allegation so when I get chance I will dig out the relevant posts it is only right.
BTW I never requested members be involved in the drafting process at any time nor a number of other false claims you make.
I am surprised you are happy for Lisa to be involved given her own documented vociferous opposition to the deal and very clear claims of strong bias. How would that view be any different to mine.
However I refuse to believe you do not understand the importance of end user reviews. I have arrived at my conclusion on the best way forward after analytically evaluating the pros and cons and the potential impacts and ongoing outcomes of the options that were and now are available to us, and the characters of those involved. Against the primary aim of protecting the future of professional football in Swansea. Of which you and your cohorts failed fairly spectacularly in, on a number of counts last time, in the opinion of many.
I am amply competent to produce a balanced list of the main pros and cons and ongoing considerations based on the various options. However that is not the role I have suggested for any of the members myself no different.
Why would you fear review if you are such a balanced team and it is going to be so different this time it could only be positive and protect you from any complaints of bias going forward. However if you put yourselves above the capabilities of the other members then god help you if important omissions or bias is yet again found post issue. Especially when lessons should have been learned after the shambles of last time.
As far as membership, long before the last vote a membership freeze was promised to stop memberships being taken up just for the vote, which would have precluded the potential for the purchase of a vote result for a few thousand pounds. This did not happen in a timely manner. Perhaps no problem for the Trust Board as their poorly thought out recommendation supported the best interests of the sellouts and new majority owners. However you are aware as well as I of the massive % growth in the membership prior to the last vote and similar reduction afterwards. The inclusion of season ticket holders might at least ensure a broad reflection of actual particular interest.
But we could as a minimum check that the person actually exists.
Of course you choose to stamp on and brand disgraceful my attempt to debate a comment by an overseas member that they did not see it as their place to vote on what they saw as a local matter. Once again changing my words to discredit the desire for balanced opinion, which the Trust should welcome.
I think we can all be clear the Trust should be about protecting the long term objectives of protecting the future of professional football in Swansea. |
I'm afraid I'm going to have to return the accusation of you being a liar on that basis then Spratty. You absolutely insinuated that overseas members should not vote in this. As Lisa called you out on it, it's what you do, raise something with just enough deniability to wriggle out of it.
I wonder what your view would be if I was to get a debate going on whether only people born or brought up in Swansea should get a vote on this. Maybe people who live in the low SA postcodes. You'd have every right to criticise that view.
The fact I'm entirely comfortable with Lisa being involved in the process should tell you all you need to know on my views on who should be involved in the process. Not as if Lisa and I haven't had the odd disagreement or three. If her view is so close to yours, I do wonder what your issue is.
You talk about end user reviews as if we're talking about a software application here, which is a bit inaccurate. The idea that you are capable of balance here is, I'm afraid, not backed by the body of evidence even within your post there.
The rules are clear. There'll be a cut off, as there was last time, the moment the consultation is announced. It wasn't delayed no matter what you're insinuating again. Putting this out to season ticket holders would be entirely inappropriate for a members organisation. Worth noting, you are doing it again I'm afraid, defining who should or shouldn't get a vote based on your views on what constitutes an appropriate person to vote.
Keep making the accusations though. If you actually want somebody to take your views seriously, it's probably not the best way to get your point across. | |
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| New chairman - Trevor Birch? on 21:30 - Mar 11 with 2455 views | Uxbridge |
| New chairman - Trevor Birch? on 21:20 - Mar 11 by NeathJack |
What are we waiting for? |
Wheels turn slowly, particularly legal ones. | |
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| New chairman - Trevor Birch? on 21:35 - Mar 11 with 2427 views | NeathJack |
| New chairman - Trevor Birch? on 21:30 - Mar 11 by Uxbridge |
Wheels turn slowly, particularly legal ones. |
Turn any slower and you may as well pull the handbrake up, turn the engine off and get out.
The vote was promised for March. I assume that promise will be kept? | | | |
| New chairman - Trevor Birch? on 21:35 - Mar 11 with 2427 views | Uxbridge |
| New chairman - Trevor Birch? on 17:28 - Mar 11 by monmouth |
I think if I was of an American persuasion I might have been considering paying out a few hundred tenners to buy a few hundred votes. Not sure how that risk should be managed nor how likely it is in practice. I think they’d be nuts not to think about it though. |
The practical logistics of it aren't easy though, not to any meaningful volume. Would need a physical address. Of course something to be wary of and trends etc will be analysed.
The practicalities of ensuring whether a member is an actual person is a tricky thing in reality. It'd be a shame if we had to go down the root of people providing proof of ID before joining, in fact a nightmare logistically. Best efforts really. | |
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| New chairman - Trevor Birch? on 21:42 - Mar 11 with 2397 views | Uxbridge |
| New chairman - Trevor Birch? on 21:35 - Mar 11 by NeathJack |
Turn any slower and you may as well pull the handbrake up, turn the engine off and get out.
The vote was promised for March. I assume that promise will be kept? |
Because we're enjoying it so much we're just padding it out. Particularly enjoying the amount of our spare time it takes up.
I bloody hope so. And expect so. | |
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| New chairman - Trevor Birch? on 22:05 - Mar 11 with 2348 views | longlostjack |
| New chairman - Trevor Birch? on 17:28 - Mar 11 by monmouth |
I think if I was of an American persuasion I might have been considering paying out a few hundred tenners to buy a few hundred votes. Not sure how that risk should be managed nor how likely it is in practice. I think they’d be nuts not to think about it though. |
That worries me too. There’s a lot of money at stake and personally I’d favour a cut off date of say 1st January this year. |  |
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| New chairman - Trevor Birch? on 23:11 - Mar 11 with 2257 views | builthjack |
| New chairman - Trevor Birch? on 17:28 - Mar 11 by monmouth |
I think if I was of an American persuasion I might have been considering paying out a few hundred tenners to buy a few hundred votes. Not sure how that risk should be managed nor how likely it is in practice. I think they’d be nuts not to think about it though. |
Perhaps the trust will have a few hundred new members before the big day 🦠|  |
| Swansea Indepenent Poster Of The Year 2021. Dr P / Mart66 / Roathie / Parlay / E20/ Duffle was 2nd, but he is deluded and thinks in his little twisted brain that he won. Poor sod. We let him win this year, as he has cried for a whole year. His 14 usernames, bless his cotton socks.
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| New chairman - Trevor Birch? on 00:11 - Mar 12 with 2191 views | DJack |
| New chairman - Trevor Birch? on 10:06 - Mar 11 by Arnie |
Who on earth are you talking to? |
You, on a username that disappeared...you know, that one word post you made. 
Nice try though. |  |
| It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan |
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| New chairman - Trevor Birch? on 05:54 - Mar 12 with 2042 views | 5amPanicAlarmToday |
| New chairman - Trevor Birch? on 11:04 - Mar 11 by magicdaps10 |
So ultimately, people who are moaning about the situation are 5 steps behind.......wether they are 5 steps behind or ahead, the yanks still have us over the barrell.
Your post basically confirms this but yet you are unable/unwilling to see this.
God, you truly are struggling to see from your own words the situation certain individuals have caused to the club. |
Over a barrel?
Aye, I’m sure the Americans are loving the fact they have to reduce the value of their company to balance the books. Do you even know what is going on? I’m sure you just guess half the time and hope that nobody notices.
Let’s get this straight. You, the Trust and other fans called this on against all warnings. You were told multiple times and in no uncertain terms that this short term revenge thirsty pound of flesh, will result in a sh*tstorm down the line. You were all told unequivocally that the replacement for Jenkins would not be a desirable one.
This is why term times are so vital, we had people making personal decisions instead of footballing ones. They even changed those rules so they could protect their own personal positions.
You made this bed, you are going to have to lie in it.
(Copied ready to be reposted as usual). |  | | |
| New chairman - Trevor Birch? on 06:11 - Mar 12 with 2027 views | longlostjack |
Multiple posters  | |
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| New chairman - Trevor Birch? on 07:27 - Mar 12 with 1965 views | magicdaps10 |
| New chairman - Trevor Birch? on 05:54 - Mar 12 by 5amPanicAlarmToday |
Over a barrel?
Aye, I’m sure the Americans are loving the fact they have to reduce the value of their company to balance the books. Do you even know what is going on? I’m sure you just guess half the time and hope that nobody notices.
Let’s get this straight. You, the Trust and other fans called this on against all warnings. You were told multiple times and in no uncertain terms that this short term revenge thirsty pound of flesh, will result in a sh*tstorm down the line. You were all told unequivocally that the replacement for Jenkins would not be a desirable one.
This is why term times are so vital, we had people making personal decisions instead of footballing ones. They even changed those rules so they could protect their own personal positions.
You made this bed, you are going to have to lie in it.
(Copied ready to be reposted as usual). |
So you are saying the appointment of Birch by the yanks as chairman is not a good one.
Getting rid of Jenkins would create a shiit storm even though you state the yanks are doing a good job.
From here on in, I now pronounce you THRUSH. |  |
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| New chairman - Trevor Birch? on 07:29 - Mar 12 with 1964 views | magicdaps10 |
Might not be you but you know who he is dont you thrush? | |
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| New chairman - Trevor Birch? on 08:17 - Mar 12 with 1912 views | Just_Me_Again |
| New chairman - Trevor Birch? on 07:29 - Mar 12 by magicdaps10 |
Might not be you but you know who he is dont you thrush? |
Not a clue, my guess is as good as yours. Bobby Fischer I assume.
Couldn’t give a monkeys though, got naff all to do with me. I’m responsible for what I say and I alone.
Calling me names isn’t doing your position any favours. | | | |
| New chairman - Trevor Birch? on 08:19 - Mar 12 with 1906 views | Just_Me_Again |
| New chairman - Trevor Birch? on 07:27 - Mar 12 by magicdaps10 |
So you are saying the appointment of Birch by the yanks as chairman is not a good one.
Getting rid of Jenkins would create a shiit storm even though you state the yanks are doing a good job.
From here on in, I now pronounce you THRUSH. |
It’s not a good one for those wanting to buy players and keep our expensive ones. It’s probably a good one for closing the financial gap. But the ones calling for Jenkins to go were very much of the former persuasion.
Jenkins, as explained before would try and bridge the gap between both approaches. Birch won’t. | | | |
| New chairman - Trevor Birch? on 08:27 - Mar 12 with 1883 views | Chief |
| New chairman - Trevor Birch? on 08:19 - Mar 12 by Just_Me_Again |
It’s not a good one for those wanting to buy players and keep our expensive ones. It’s probably a good one for closing the financial gap. But the ones calling for Jenkins to go were very much of the former persuasion.
Jenkins, as explained before would try and bridge the gap between both approaches. Birch won’t. |
Well the yanks got rid of Jenkins after deadline day. Do you think they dropped a clanger there then? |  |
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| New chairman - Trevor Birch? on 09:01 - Mar 12 with 1821 views | Only_Meeee |
| New chairman - Trevor Birch? on 08:27 - Mar 12 by Chief |
Well the yanks got rid of Jenkins after deadline day. Do you think they dropped a clanger there then? |
Dropped a clanger? No, not particularly. I think we have a problem here where people cannot seperate what the average fans aims are and what the people running the clubs aims are. They are not the same.
So it depends what side of the fence you are to whether you think this appointment is good or bad.
As I told Daps. The Americans just want to get their business self sufficient again, if that means selling players and not bringing any in then so be it. If you also only care about that then the appointment is a good one.
If you want a really competitive side with spending and footballing decisions, then this appointment will be horrendous for you.
Jenkins would have bridged the gap between the two as we saw this season. Birch won’t. There will be no more Celina’s for a while. | | | |
| New chairman - Trevor Birch? on 09:08 - Mar 12 with 1801 views | magicdaps10 |
| New chairman - Trevor Birch? on 08:19 - Mar 12 by Just_Me_Again |
It’s not a good one for those wanting to buy players and keep our expensive ones. It’s probably a good one for closing the financial gap. But the ones calling for Jenkins to go were very much of the former persuasion.
Jenkins, as explained before would try and bridge the gap between both approaches. Birch won’t. |
Your view, would he be a good appointment? | |
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| New chairman - Trevor Birch? on 09:10 - Mar 12 with 1778 views | magicdaps10 |
| New chairman - Trevor Birch? on 08:17 - Mar 12 by Just_Me_Again |
Not a clue, my guess is as good as yours. Bobby Fischer I assume.
Couldn’t give a monkeys though, got naff all to do with me. I’m responsible for what I say and I alone.
Calling me names isn’t doing your position any favours. |
My position!?
I take it, T2C told you who I am then? He wasnt around long after when he found out who I was. | |
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| New chairman - Trevor Birch? on 09:13 - Mar 12 with 1764 views | Only_Meeee |
| New chairman - Trevor Birch? on 09:10 - Mar 12 by magicdaps10 |
My position!?
I take it, T2C told you who I am then? He wasnt around long after when he found out who I was. |
Your position on this you fruitcake.
I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, as usual. | | | |
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