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The Official WBA vs Swansea City Match Thread 17:31 - Mar 11 with 24486 viewsjackharris


[Post edited 13 Mar 19:08]

Very proud to be voted Planet Swans Poster of the Year 2017 by my fellow posters. Especially on a site that nearly had 20 million impressions last year.
Poll: What is your favourite Knock?

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The Official WBA vs Swansea City Match Thread on 11:55 - Mar 14 with 990 viewsperplex

The Official WBA vs Swansea City Match Thread on 00:37 - Mar 14 by sainthelens

I never said he was special, but I think you probably are.


Not really, just not as naive and gullible as yourself and many others on here, I am going to be creased at some of you lot,s reactions when it eventually dawns on you how far this club is going to fall in the next 2 years.
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The Official WBA vs Swansea City Match Thread on 11:57 - Mar 14 with 972 viewssainthelens

The Official WBA vs Swansea City Match Thread on 11:55 - Mar 14 by perplex

Not really, just not as naive and gullible as yourself and many others on here, I am going to be creased at some of you lot,s reactions when it eventually dawns on you how far this club is going to fall in the next 2 years.


Save that thought pal, I ain't that gullible. I know wer falling quicker than a turd in a well, but I blame the powers up top all day....not the manager.
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The Official WBA vs Swansea City Match Thread on 17:37 - Mar 14 with 777 viewsDwightYorkeSuperstar

The Official WBA vs Swansea City Match Thread on 11:57 - Mar 14 by sainthelens

Save that thought pal, I ain't that gullible. I know wer falling quicker than a turd in a well, but I blame the powers up top all day....not the manager.


Who do you think picked Nordfelt last night, Jason or Steve?

We would be comfortably mid table with Joe Allen and Brendan Rodgers
Poll: Should MP for Swansea East Carolyn Harris resign?

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The Official WBA vs Swansea City Match Thread on 17:50 - Mar 14 with 761 viewstheloneranger

The Official WBA vs Swansea City Match Thread on 17:37 - Mar 14 by DwightYorkeSuperstar

Who do you think picked Nordfelt last night, Jason or Steve?


Jason and Steve didn't know we were playing
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The Official WBA vs Swansea City Match Thread on 19:28 - Mar 14 with 666 viewssainthelens

The Official WBA vs Swansea City Match Thread on 17:37 - Mar 14 by DwightYorkeSuperstar

Who do you think picked Nordfelt last night, Jason or Steve?


Same guy that picked Celina. Potter's fault for the penalty eh.
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The Official WBA vs Swansea City Match Thread on 22:32 - Mar 14 with 531 viewsjackrmee

The Official WBA vs Swansea City Match Thread on 11:48 - Mar 14 by perplex

Oh look you have given yourself a rolling smiley, you like laughing at your own jokes I see.


You're too stupid to even know you're being insulted

Poll: Who are you voting for this year? I'm sure Grimes will be popular. I've gone Oli

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The Official WBA vs Swansea City Match Thread on 11:26 - Mar 15 with 376 viewsvetchonian

The Official WBA vs Swansea City Match Thread on 11:06 - Mar 14 by jasper_T

So even Potter's preferred playing style isn't his responsibility now?

The man's getting the benefit of every doubt imaginable.


I cant work you out!

I cant understand all the grief Potter is getting...yes he has made some strange decisions around slelections earlier in the season....but now he does seem to be trying to kepp a "settled" side...given the cards he has dealt. I would expect HJ did brief Potter about a return to the "Swansea Way" ....remember HJ always talked about having a "dossier" of potential future managers who would play the attractive style we wanted so I guess this was talked about when he joined.Thus the preferred selection of Nordfeldt,his use of the full backs as wingers in ganes such as Bolton where he used almost a frontline of Dan,Routs and Dyer all compact in the middle with Roberts and Naughton. I am not giving him the benefit of the doubt I am supporting him as the manager of my team....someone who is new to this league and dealing with loads of issues such as the quality he has to work with and the lack of experience amongst the talented youngsters..give the man a break he is one of the best managers we have had in recent times....I know that is not saying much but what we need now is some stability !

Poll: Will CCFC win a game this season?

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The Official WBA vs Swansea City Match Thread on 11:43 - Mar 15 with 363 viewsjasper_T

The Official WBA vs Swansea City Match Thread on 11:26 - Mar 15 by vetchonian

I cant work you out!

I cant understand all the grief Potter is getting...yes he has made some strange decisions around slelections earlier in the season....but now he does seem to be trying to kepp a "settled" side...given the cards he has dealt. I would expect HJ did brief Potter about a return to the "Swansea Way" ....remember HJ always talked about having a "dossier" of potential future managers who would play the attractive style we wanted so I guess this was talked about when he joined.Thus the preferred selection of Nordfeldt,his use of the full backs as wingers in ganes such as Bolton where he used almost a frontline of Dan,Routs and Dyer all compact in the middle with Roberts and Naughton. I am not giving him the benefit of the doubt I am supporting him as the manager of my team....someone who is new to this league and dealing with loads of issues such as the quality he has to work with and the lack of experience amongst the talented youngsters..give the man a break he is one of the best managers we have had in recent times....I know that is not saying much but what we need now is some stability !


He's still making strange selections. You can't blame them on what HJ might have said to him last summer, that's ridiculous.

Anyone who still thinks Potter's getting 110% out of a bad bunch of players isn't watching football, and certainly isn't watching the other 23 teams in the division for comparison. We've got good players and should be doing better than 15th.

No one has said to sack him that I'm aware of, either. Pleading for stability is trying to dodge the discussion. You clearly agree with most of the criticism but are wringing your hands that it's being voiced because, what? It might hurt poor Graham's feelings? He's always been completely up front about his mistakes, and willing to take the blame rather than passing the buck to our evil owners or Huw.
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The Official WBA vs Swansea City Match Thread on 12:08 - Mar 15 with 356 viewsvetchonian

The Official WBA vs Swansea City Match Thread on 11:43 - Mar 15 by jasper_T

He's still making strange selections. You can't blame them on what HJ might have said to him last summer, that's ridiculous.

Anyone who still thinks Potter's getting 110% out of a bad bunch of players isn't watching football, and certainly isn't watching the other 23 teams in the division for comparison. We've got good players and should be doing better than 15th.

No one has said to sack him that I'm aware of, either. Pleading for stability is trying to dodge the discussion. You clearly agree with most of the criticism but are wringing your hands that it's being voiced because, what? It might hurt poor Graham's feelings? He's always been completely up front about his mistakes, and willing to take the blame rather than passing the buck to our evil owners or Huw.


Yes we should be better than 15th but we arent...some of it is down to some of Potters selections earlier in the season, some down to the players making silly mistakes,some down to our inability to take our chances in games such as the last two..we are creating more chances these days but appear incapable of converting them to goals...as has been said on here Dan James is one who has great pace and ability BUT struggles to finish

We have played Ollie out of position he never seems to be in the box enough.... we have a powder puff midfield especially without Fer..a defence often left exposed as a result..VDH is good bur Carter-Vickers is "dodgy" we are missing Rodon who I rate better than CV but still has a lot to learn..I have been watching the other teams for comparison...most of the other temas have some "old heads" who know how to "Play the game" ie how far far can we push the ref, cynical fouling , Ollie gets "beaten up " most games with the oppostion centre halves climping over him kicking him in the back of his shins etc...all the "youngsters " have been going through this learning curve.

Why am I wringing my hands it is beacuse for whatever reason most fans seem to think they know better than the manager..because they have watched so much football, or played themselves some even semi pro....playing doesnt make you a manager look at all the "great" players who have failed miserably when it has come to coaching/managing...I get peed off as fans seem no longer feel the need to support players or managers anynore but are quick to get on their backs.....we are in a state of change Potter is trying to work out what he can do with this paper thin squad whilst at the same time exposing some of our talented U23s who have been used to playing players form PL sides who are younger than them to having to come up against some seasoned cynical pros in a competetive league

I am not blaming it all on HJ but I would imagine it is in Potters mind that the club and its fans expect to see that "attractive possesion" style of football we became known for
But then fans are never happy I have sat amongst those who have said they would prefer to lose and see us playing nice football rather than lose playing what we had been served up since 2016! I am sure given time and the resource Potter will give us that ....again where were Norwich this time last season where are they now?? What did the Norwich fans say after that game they could see us repeating what they have done....our problem will be no doubt will be missing quite a few of the talented players next season!

Poll: Will CCFC win a game this season?

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The Official WBA vs Swansea City Match Thread on 12:12 - Mar 15 with 353 viewsTailGunner

The Official WBA vs Swansea City Match Thread on 12:08 - Mar 15 by vetchonian

Yes we should be better than 15th but we arent...some of it is down to some of Potters selections earlier in the season, some down to the players making silly mistakes,some down to our inability to take our chances in games such as the last two..we are creating more chances these days but appear incapable of converting them to goals...as has been said on here Dan James is one who has great pace and ability BUT struggles to finish

We have played Ollie out of position he never seems to be in the box enough.... we have a powder puff midfield especially without Fer..a defence often left exposed as a result..VDH is good bur Carter-Vickers is "dodgy" we are missing Rodon who I rate better than CV but still has a lot to learn..I have been watching the other teams for comparison...most of the other temas have some "old heads" who know how to "Play the game" ie how far far can we push the ref, cynical fouling , Ollie gets "beaten up " most games with the oppostion centre halves climping over him kicking him in the back of his shins etc...all the "youngsters " have been going through this learning curve.

Why am I wringing my hands it is beacuse for whatever reason most fans seem to think they know better than the manager..because they have watched so much football, or played themselves some even semi pro....playing doesnt make you a manager look at all the "great" players who have failed miserably when it has come to coaching/managing...I get peed off as fans seem no longer feel the need to support players or managers anynore but are quick to get on their backs.....we are in a state of change Potter is trying to work out what he can do with this paper thin squad whilst at the same time exposing some of our talented U23s who have been used to playing players form PL sides who are younger than them to having to come up against some seasoned cynical pros in a competetive league

I am not blaming it all on HJ but I would imagine it is in Potters mind that the club and its fans expect to see that "attractive possesion" style of football we became known for
But then fans are never happy I have sat amongst those who have said they would prefer to lose and see us playing nice football rather than lose playing what we had been served up since 2016! I am sure given time and the resource Potter will give us that ....again where were Norwich this time last season where are they now?? What did the Norwich fans say after that game they could see us repeating what they have done....our problem will be no doubt will be missing quite a few of the talented players next season!


Simple answer mate
Jasper has backed the owners actions and repeatedly claimed we have a top 6 squad all season. He hangs in Nixon's every word too.

Many others have said beating relegation would be an achievement with what's gone on, and the quality of squad is nowhere near good enough, and his 23s are starting to struggle.

He is been proved wrong - tables don't lie.
So Potter gets it.
Very predictable.
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The Official WBA vs Swansea City Match Thread on 12:22 - Mar 15 with 345 viewsjasper_T

The Official WBA vs Swansea City Match Thread on 12:12 - Mar 15 by TailGunner

Simple answer mate
Jasper has backed the owners actions and repeatedly claimed we have a top 6 squad all season. He hangs in Nixon's every word too.

Many others have said beating relegation would be an achievement with what's gone on, and the quality of squad is nowhere near good enough, and his 23s are starting to struggle.

He is been proved wrong - tables don't lie.
So Potter gets it.
Very predictable.


So it's just the players that are failing, and Potter's been perfect?

We've dropped a lot of points due to his decisions, be it changing winning sides & formulas, refusing to make subs until so late in games that we'd lost leads in games we managed to start well, playing fcking Nordfeldt etc.

You're right, the table doesn't lie. Potter not done a great job. There are younger, less experienced managers working with less mney and talent than him who have a higher point total.
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The Official WBA vs Swansea City Match Thread on 12:27 - Mar 15 with 336 viewsjasper_T

Nice to see the old "if you're not a professional football manager how can you ever say anything a professional football manager does is a mistake?" argument resurface.

Some of you should try watching Potter's press conferences once in a while. He admits his faults, he's not a child.
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The Official WBA vs Swansea City Match Thread on 12:28 - Mar 15 with 334 viewsBytholWyn

The Official WBA vs Swansea City Match Thread on 12:08 - Mar 15 by vetchonian

Yes we should be better than 15th but we arent...some of it is down to some of Potters selections earlier in the season, some down to the players making silly mistakes,some down to our inability to take our chances in games such as the last two..we are creating more chances these days but appear incapable of converting them to goals...as has been said on here Dan James is one who has great pace and ability BUT struggles to finish

We have played Ollie out of position he never seems to be in the box enough.... we have a powder puff midfield especially without Fer..a defence often left exposed as a result..VDH is good bur Carter-Vickers is "dodgy" we are missing Rodon who I rate better than CV but still has a lot to learn..I have been watching the other teams for comparison...most of the other temas have some "old heads" who know how to "Play the game" ie how far far can we push the ref, cynical fouling , Ollie gets "beaten up " most games with the oppostion centre halves climping over him kicking him in the back of his shins etc...all the "youngsters " have been going through this learning curve.

Why am I wringing my hands it is beacuse for whatever reason most fans seem to think they know better than the manager..because they have watched so much football, or played themselves some even semi pro....playing doesnt make you a manager look at all the "great" players who have failed miserably when it has come to coaching/managing...I get peed off as fans seem no longer feel the need to support players or managers anynore but are quick to get on their backs.....we are in a state of change Potter is trying to work out what he can do with this paper thin squad whilst at the same time exposing some of our talented U23s who have been used to playing players form PL sides who are younger than them to having to come up against some seasoned cynical pros in a competetive league

I am not blaming it all on HJ but I would imagine it is in Potters mind that the club and its fans expect to see that "attractive possesion" style of football we became known for
But then fans are never happy I have sat amongst those who have said they would prefer to lose and see us playing nice football rather than lose playing what we had been served up since 2016! I am sure given time and the resource Potter will give us that ....again where were Norwich this time last season where are they now?? What did the Norwich fans say after that game they could see us repeating what they have done....our problem will be no doubt will be missing quite a few of the talented players next season!


Fantastic post. I think there's always room for balanced fair criticism - and Potter has certainly made mistakes that merit criticism. But I find it staggering that any criticism isn't caveated heavily with the recognition that we are very, very lucky to have Potter. If we were to lose him it would be a devastating blow to the prospects of the club, on and off the pitch. Just reflect for a minute on the massive appreciation this season in the value of the likes of James, McBurnie, Grimes, Rodon and Roberts (for starters). You're talking a minimum of £20 million added to the asset value of the club - absolutely fundamental to our progress as a club - especially in the short-term. This is hardly a surprise - given how he built Ostersunds through moulding a bunch of misfits and under-performing players into a successful team.

We should also acknowledge how we've been unfortunate on the pitch - which is reflected in the expected goals league table, where we are 11th on 50 points and with three more wins than defeats, unlike our real world position of having lost two more games than we've won. Have a look here: https://twitter.com/eflstats?lang=en We're also well out in front on pass accuracy and one of the leading sides on pass completion and possession - all predictors of footballing success - reflected in the fact that the likes of Norwich, Leeds and Sheffield United all rank highly on these stats, as do Brentford - who consistently punch above their weight given the size of the club.

Also consider this quote from James in the Telegraph: "“We are a young team, a developing team and I saw a stat the other day that showed we had the most players Under-23 with the most minutes in the Championship – by a good 3,000-4,000 minutes,” - https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2019/03/15/daniel-james-interview-comparing That says it all about what Potter has had to work with, and has achieved in a short space of time with a bunch of youngsters. It augurs very well for next season.

I'm all for reasoned criticism, but there are some right jokers (I'm being polite here) on this forum.
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The Official WBA vs Swansea City Match Thread on 12:33 - Mar 15 with 330 viewsTailGunner

The Official WBA vs Swansea City Match Thread on 12:22 - Mar 15 by jasper_T

So it's just the players that are failing, and Potter's been perfect?

We've dropped a lot of points due to his decisions, be it changing winning sides & formulas, refusing to make subs until so late in games that we'd lost leads in games we managed to start well, playing fcking Nordfeldt etc.

You're right, the table doesn't lie. Potter not done a great job. There are younger, less experienced managers working with less mney and talent than him who have a higher point total.


He's made mistakes, it's his first year in s high pressures job. So have all other managers

You were warned that this squad was paper thin and nowhere near strong enough time after time, and would suffer as season went on. People were saying this when we were knocking on top 6.


Tables don't lie.
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The Official WBA vs Swansea City Match Thread on 12:57 - Mar 15 with 315 viewsvetchonian

The Official WBA vs Swansea City Match Thread on 12:22 - Mar 15 by jasper_T

So it's just the players that are failing, and Potter's been perfect?

We've dropped a lot of points due to his decisions, be it changing winning sides & formulas, refusing to make subs until so late in games that we'd lost leads in games we managed to start well, playing fcking Nordfeldt etc.

You're right, the table doesn't lie. Potter not done a great job. There are younger, less experienced managers working with less mney and talent than him who have a higher point total.


Ok name names which young managers with less experience and less money and talent are you talking about?
In the top 15 there are only two managers with "little experience" thats Potter and Lampard...and youy are saying Lampard is working with less money?
Farke been at Norwich since 2017,Bielsa?Monk,Pullis,Martin Oneill Lee Johnson? managing since 2016 in this league,Tony Mowbury,Nigel Adkins?,

I challenge you speak with data!

Poll: Will CCFC win a game this season?

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The Official WBA vs Swansea City Match Thread on 13:02 - Mar 15 with 310 viewsvetchonian

The Official WBA vs Swansea City Match Thread on 12:27 - Mar 15 by jasper_T

Nice to see the old "if you're not a professional football manager how can you ever say anything a professional football manager does is a mistake?" argument resurface.

Some of you should try watching Potter's press conferences once in a while. He admits his faults, he's not a child.


Funny I dont recall saying that....and the person who has never made a mistake has never done or learnt anything.....and that is just what Potter is doing this season he is learning about managing in the EFL....whihc is different to his past experiences whislt also working with a squad who is learning to play at this level.

My gripe is why do us fans always think we know better!

Poll: Will CCFC win a game this season?

1
The Official WBA vs Swansea City Match Thread on 13:10 - Mar 15 with 300 viewsjasper_T

The Official WBA vs Swansea City Match Thread on 13:02 - Mar 15 by vetchonian

Funny I dont recall saying that....and the person who has never made a mistake has never done or learnt anything.....and that is just what Potter is doing this season he is learning about managing in the EFL....whihc is different to his past experiences whislt also working with a squad who is learning to play at this level.

My gripe is why do us fans always think we know better!


"Why am I wringing my hands it is beacuse for whatever reason most fans seem to think they know better than the manager..because they have watched so much football, or played themselves some even semi pro..."
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The Official WBA vs Swansea City Match Thread on 13:16 - Mar 15 with 285 viewsjasper_T

The Official WBA vs Swansea City Match Thread on 12:57 - Mar 15 by vetchonian

Ok name names which young managers with less experience and less money and talent are you talking about?
In the top 15 there are only two managers with "little experience" thats Potter and Lampard...and youy are saying Lampard is working with less money?
Farke been at Norwich since 2017,Bielsa?Monk,Pullis,Martin Oneill Lee Johnson? managing since 2016 in this league,Tony Mowbury,Nigel Adkins?,

I challenge you speak with data!


Lee Johnson is 6 years younger, has been a manager for 2 years fewer, had to sell their three best players in the summer (from a far, far smaller squad than ours was) and had a net spend of -£15m.

That's a manager getting everything out of a meagre squad.
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The Official WBA vs Swansea City Match Thread on 13:16 - Mar 15 with 285 viewsDwightYorkeSuperstar

The Official WBA vs Swansea City Match Thread on 12:57 - Mar 15 by vetchonian

Ok name names which young managers with less experience and less money and talent are you talking about?
In the top 15 there are only two managers with "little experience" thats Potter and Lampard...and youy are saying Lampard is working with less money?
Farke been at Norwich since 2017,Bielsa?Monk,Pullis,Martin Oneill Lee Johnson? managing since 2016 in this league,Tony Mowbury,Nigel Adkins?,

I challenge you speak with data!


Potter has been a manager for 7+ years hasn't he? He didn't start last August.

We would be comfortably mid table with Joe Allen and Brendan Rodgers
Poll: Should MP for Swansea East Carolyn Harris resign?

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The Official WBA vs Swansea City Match Thread on 13:23 - Mar 15 with 276 viewsTailGunner

The Official WBA vs Swansea City Match Thread on 13:16 - Mar 15 by jasper_T

Lee Johnson is 6 years younger, has been a manager for 2 years fewer, had to sell their three best players in the summer (from a far, far smaller squad than ours was) and had a net spend of -£15m.

That's a manager getting everything out of a meagre squad.


He barely kept city up even with Abraham's 27 goals

Fans turned on him, lucky to keep his job
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The Official WBA vs Swansea City Match Thread on 13:26 - Mar 15 with 272 viewsjasper_T

The Official WBA vs Swansea City Match Thread on 13:23 - Mar 15 by TailGunner

He barely kept city up even with Abraham's 27 goals

Fans turned on him, lucky to keep his job


They're being rewarded now. In the play off hunt, which is remarkable for a club of their stature.
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The Official WBA vs Swansea City Match Thread on 13:42 - Mar 15 with 263 viewsvetchonian

The Official WBA vs Swansea City Match Thread on 13:16 - Mar 15 by DwightYorkeSuperstar

Potter has been a manager for 7+ years hasn't he? He didn't start last August.


yes but this is his first season in the EFL...so it is a different experience some of you WUMS need to get your heads out of your backsides and stop talking through tem

He quite rightly hasben a manager for 7 or so years but in a different country and at a much lower level....also he hasnt exactly come to a "settled" club!

Most of his charges are experiencing football at a different level form their U23 experiences too....people talk about Grimes being different this year dont forget he has spent timje out at other clubs and had some exposure to the EFL! Expewreince at different levels counts!

Thats why Ole is a better mangaer for Man U than he was at Cardiff.....he is helped by better players too for example

Poll: Will CCFC win a game this season?

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The Official WBA vs Swansea City Match Thread on 14:02 - Mar 15 with 252 viewsTailGunner

The Official WBA vs Swansea City Match Thread on 13:26 - Mar 15 by jasper_T

They're being rewarded now. In the play off hunt, which is remarkable for a club of their stature.


So we sell all our best players, replace with nothing but untried kids and Potter in his first year is expected to be top 6 for you?

But it's truly remarkable for Bristol City to be up there, a bigger club in every aspect?
With a more experienced football league manager.??

Weird. Or maybe not ....
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The Official WBA vs Swansea City Match Thread on 14:13 - Mar 15 with 249 viewsvetchonian

The Official WBA vs Swansea City Match Thread on 13:16 - Mar 15 by jasper_T

Lee Johnson is 6 years younger, has been a manager for 2 years fewer, had to sell their three best players in the summer (from a far, far smaller squad than ours was) and had a net spend of -£15m.

That's a manager getting everything out of a meagre squad.


So just one then and though younger has managed in the EFL since 2013....so has more "experience" at this level of football and what it brings..plus can always call his Dad to ask for advice!

It is the same as taking an "experienced" production manager from a "small business and them moving up to a major company often they can struggle at first...

Plus Bristol dont have all of the off field crap going on either! And the average age of the outfield squad is 26 and most are in their second or third season playing together at this level.....compare that to our squad!

Potter is not above blame for our current league status but he does deserve to be cut a little slack...he has made mistakes with selection, substitutions but then so did Clement who was always too scared to look for a win whilst sometimes Potter can be gung ho...Carlos cost us PL survival trying to be cautious at the end and he had experience and a better squad! What is it you all want ,expect?

Poll: Will CCFC win a game this season?

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The Official WBA vs Swansea City Match Thread on 15:23 - Mar 15 with 214 viewsjasper_T

The Official WBA vs Swansea City Match Thread on 14:13 - Mar 15 by vetchonian

So just one then and though younger has managed in the EFL since 2013....so has more "experience" at this level of football and what it brings..plus can always call his Dad to ask for advice!

It is the same as taking an "experienced" production manager from a "small business and them moving up to a major company often they can struggle at first...

Plus Bristol dont have all of the off field crap going on either! And the average age of the outfield squad is 26 and most are in their second or third season playing together at this level.....compare that to our squad!

Potter is not above blame for our current league status but he does deserve to be cut a little slack...he has made mistakes with selection, substitutions but then so did Clement who was always too scared to look for a win whilst sometimes Potter can be gung ho...Carlos cost us PL survival trying to be cautious at the end and he had experience and a better squad! What is it you all want ,expect?


No one has talked up Clement and Carvalhal, me especially. That's an extraordinarily low bar to clear, and Potter would still be due pelters for barely clearing it, "cutting him some slack" or not.

You agree he's not above blame but are still getting very upset whenever someone sends some blame his way. It's not like people are on here screaming "Potter out!" every week. Posters are criticising specific flaws in what he's doing, and our current position in the table.

He's got a long way to go and a lot left to prove. To be by all appearances out of the playoff hunt at this stage is poor.
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