| Dan James attracting Premier League clubs 11:23 - Apr 28 with 4648 views | Swansea93 |
Alan Nixon
@reluctantnicko
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1h
MAN CITY. Keen on Dan James at SWANSEA. But would send to GIRONA for a season or two. Others in Prem want him for now.
As expected let the fun begin. |  |
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| Dan James attracting Premier League clubs on 16:40 - Apr 28 with 1969 views | hobo |
| Dan James attracting Premier League clubs on 11:32 - Apr 28 by DwightYorkeSuperstar |
Sinclair was a better player. |
FFS  |  | | |
| Dan James attracting Premier League clubs on 16:40 - Apr 28 with 1968 views | BytholWyn |
| Dan James attracting Premier League clubs on 15:54 - Apr 28 by DwightYorkeSuperstar |
Why did Sinclair have considerable more experience at a younger age? Because he was a better player. Sinclair was starting games in the Premier League whilst Dan James was fighting for his career after being released by Hull. |
You're making stuff up DYSS - unless you count Sinclair's 5 appearances (mainly from the bench in cup competitions) for Chelsea from 2005-2010 as having any significance at all. Dan James' starring performance for Wales vs Slovakia eclipses anything Sinclair managed in his early years. Not only that, but James joined Swansea from Hull's academy for a fee of £72,000 - he was hardly "released by Hull". But don't let the facts get in the way of your lack of capacity to make a balanced judgement. Next thing you'll be telling us that Potter is a poor manager... |  | | |
| Dan James attracting Premier League clubs on 16:45 - Apr 28 with 1950 views | DwightYorkeSuperstar |
| Dan James attracting Premier League clubs on 16:40 - Apr 28 by BytholWyn |
You're making stuff up DYSS - unless you count Sinclair's 5 appearances (mainly from the bench in cup competitions) for Chelsea from 2005-2010 as having any significance at all. Dan James' starring performance for Wales vs Slovakia eclipses anything Sinclair managed in his early years. Not only that, but James joined Swansea from Hull's academy for a fee of £72,000 - he was hardly "released by Hull". But don't let the facts get in the way of your lack of capacity to make a balanced judgement. Next thing you'll be telling us that Potter is a poor manager... |
I was mistaken about his move here. I am not mistaken when I say Sinclair was starting games in the Premier League at a younger age than when Dan broke through a league below. Sinclair was the better player between the two in my opinion. Let's see if Manchester City come in for James. |  |
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| Dan James attracting Premier League clubs on 16:48 - Apr 28 with 1948 views | trinityann |
If I was betting man, Dan will have a more successful career than Sinclair. Everytime I watch him at the Liberty is all round game is improving. A Bit of coaching in the finishing department and he could be the next Sterling. [Post edited 28 Apr 2019 16:49]
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| Dan James attracting Premier League clubs on 17:01 - Apr 28 with 1933 views | TailGunner |
| Dan James attracting Premier League clubs on 16:45 - Apr 28 by DwightYorkeSuperstar |
I was mistaken about his move here. I am not mistaken when I say Sinclair was starting games in the Premier League at a younger age than when Dan broke through a league below. Sinclair was the better player between the two in my opinion. Let's see if Manchester City come in for James. |
You were not mistaken. You made it up, and added he was fighting to save his career
Pathetic. Poison | | | |
| Dan James attracting Premier League clubs on 17:24 - Apr 28 with 1892 views | westwalesed |
Bournemouth would be a great move for him. He’ll be nurtured and Howe is an excellent Coach.
However from our point of view the best result by far would be to be sold to a big club and loaned back for a season. | |
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| Dan James attracting Premier League clubs on 17:34 - Apr 28 with 1871 views | hobo |
| Dan James attracting Premier League clubs on 17:24 - Apr 28 by westwalesed |
Bournemouth would be a great move for him. He’ll be nurtured and Howe is an excellent Coach.
However from our point of view the best result by far would be to be sold to a big club and loaned back for a season. |
They'd be well advised to steal a march on the big clubs and break their transfer record to get him in | | | |
| Dan James attracting Premier League clubs on 12:05 - Apr 29 with 1647 views | jackrmee |
| Dan James attracting Premier League clubs on 16:37 - Apr 28 by jasper_T |
DJ wasn't released by Hull. We poached him. They couldn't stop us as we were Cat 2 and they were Cat 3 at the time.
Sinclair wasn't playing in the Premier League at that age, he was coming on as a late sub in League Two (which is still impressive for sure). He made his Premier League debut at 18, starting one game that season. Wasn't a Premier League regular until his loan to Wigan as a 20 year old. |
So seen as we are staying Cat1 next year, there may be possibilities of us poaching some more young talent from the punks with Cat2/3? |  |
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| Dan James attracting Premier League clubs on 12:08 - Apr 29 with 1645 views | jackrmee |
| Dan James attracting Premier League clubs on 16:38 - Apr 28 by icecoldjack |
Look how sensational Scott was for us in the championship and look at how Dan compares, then try and figure out how Dan would get games ahead any of the first team there !
That move would fix him financially and ruin him professionally IMO, he'd be better off testing himself at a higher level with a team like Leicster or Bournmouth, Rodgers would do a great job with him, and Dan would improve with intensive face stroking. |
There is a chance he's make it at Man City. Even if he has to go out on loan, learning from Pep would help any player's career.
He could defo rip it up at Bournemouth though, would love to see that. Have leicester been named as an interested party yet then? | |
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| Dan James attracting Premier League clubs on 12:13 - Apr 29 with 1637 views | jasper_T |
| Dan James attracting Premier League clubs on 12:05 - Apr 29 by jackrmee |
So seen as we are staying Cat1 next year, there may be possibilities of us poaching some more young talent from the punks with Cat2/3? |
I don't think we've got the sort of money to spend on compensation packages. Will stick to local lads and players released from richer, pickier academies.
That said I think Ali Al-Hamadi would have been a poaching job last summer from Tranmere (highly-rated but I suspect because he's a 6'3 unit of a forward rather than exceptional talent). | | | |
| Dan James attracting Premier League clubs on 12:24 - Apr 29 with 1628 views | jackrmee |
| Dan James attracting Premier League clubs on 12:13 - Apr 29 by jasper_T |
I don't think we've got the sort of money to spend on compensation packages. Will stick to local lads and players released from richer, pickier academies.
That said I think Ali Al-Hamadi would have been a poaching job last summer from Tranmere (highly-rated but I suspect because he's a 6'3 unit of a forward rather than exceptional talent). |
Surely we will have enough to pay for a few DJs? (£72k!!!)
We won't go through another transfer window without signing anyone. Use our Cat1 to the best of it's ability if you ask me. Especially as it will be under the microscope again at the end of next season, so we really need to show more promise and movement from the academy imo. Difficult/impossible to follow this season's output, but it needs to be obviously improving kids and getting them chances if we are hoping to keep it open for the long term.
Poaching may be the way forward, fuk em. | |
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| Dan James attracting Premier League clubs on 12:24 - Apr 29 with 1628 views | jack247 |
| Dan James attracting Premier League clubs on 16:38 - Apr 28 by icecoldjack |
Look how sensational Scott was for us in the championship and look at how Dan compares, then try and figure out how Dan would get games ahead any of the first team there !
That move would fix him financially and ruin him professionally IMO, he'd be better off testing himself at a higher level with a team like Leicster or Bournmouth, Rodgers would do a great job with him, and Dan would improve with intensive face stroking. |
To be fair, that was an all round better team that had a few years experience playing together in league 1 and the championship. Rodgers then added Sinclair and Borini for a sprinkling of gold dust. This team probably won’t get that chance, with the owners looking to sell anyone they can get decent coin for. They could arguably grow into a team playing attractive, winning championship football if they were given another season two.
I don’t think Dan is at the level Scott was in 2010/11, but that was probably his pinnacle football wise. I don’t think Dans career will stall the minute he leaves Swansea. | | | |
| Dan James attracting Premier League clubs on 12:31 - Apr 29 with 1622 views | jasper_T |
| Dan James attracting Premier League clubs on 12:24 - Apr 29 by jackrmee |
Surely we will have enough to pay for a few DJs? (£72k!!!)
We won't go through another transfer window without signing anyone. Use our Cat1 to the best of it's ability if you ask me. Especially as it will be under the microscope again at the end of next season, so we really need to show more promise and movement from the academy imo. Difficult/impossible to follow this season's output, but it needs to be obviously improving kids and getting them chances if we are hoping to keep it open for the long term.
Poaching may be the way forward, fuk em. |
We paid ~£500k for two senior players this season. £72k on a 16 year old for the future isn't as strong an investment as it was in the PL. Better than £2m for a 19 year old for the future, but everyone makes mistakes.
You can still recruit without playing the poaching market. Leave off until we're financially sorted or promoted imo. Let the opportunities fall to Rushesha and Jones-Thomas and Bony Jr. in the next few years. | | | |
| Dan James attracting Premier League clubs on 12:39 - Apr 29 with 1613 views | jackrmee |
| Dan James attracting Premier League clubs on 12:31 - Apr 29 by jasper_T |
We paid ~£500k for two senior players this season. £72k on a 16 year old for the future isn't as strong an investment as it was in the PL. Better than £2m for a 19 year old for the future, but everyone makes mistakes.
You can still recruit without playing the poaching market. Leave off until we're financially sorted or promoted imo. Let the opportunities fall to Rushesha and Jones-Thomas and Bony Jr. in the next few years. |
Recruit locally? But we can do that without a cat1 right?
From what I hear, a cat1 puts us in a stronger position if clubs want to poach our lads, but how does it improve us in terms of recruitment? | |
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| Dan James attracting Premier League clubs on 13:56 - Apr 29 with 1521 views | jasper_T |
| Dan James attracting Premier League clubs on 12:39 - Apr 29 by jackrmee |
Recruit locally? But we can do that without a cat1 right?
From what I hear, a cat1 puts us in a stronger position if clubs want to poach our lads, but how does it improve us in terms of recruitment? |
Increased minimum standards mean we have better qualified coaches putting in more hours. Better facilities available. Play better opposition in regular fixtures (PL2, international cup, Checkatrade Trophy). Players with a choice of where to go will gravitate towards the higher category academies.
I wasn't in the "losing Cat One status is equivalent to closing the academy altogether" camp last time the discussion came up on here. Poaching rights are a big part of the appeal, but don't help much if you're skint. A shorter pathway to senior fixtures from development to the Championship compared to the PL also reduces the impact of elite u23 competitions. Players won't be waiting until they're 21/22 to play if they're good enough. | | | |
| Dan James attracting Premier League clubs on 15:07 - Apr 29 with 1445 views | jack247 |
| Dan James attracting Premier League clubs on 13:56 - Apr 29 by jasper_T |
Increased minimum standards mean we have better qualified coaches putting in more hours. Better facilities available. Play better opposition in regular fixtures (PL2, international cup, Checkatrade Trophy). Players with a choice of where to go will gravitate towards the higher category academies.
I wasn't in the "losing Cat One status is equivalent to closing the academy altogether" camp last time the discussion came up on here. Poaching rights are a big part of the appeal, but don't help much if you're skint. A shorter pathway to senior fixtures from development to the Championship compared to the PL also reduces the impact of elite u23 competitions. Players won't be waiting until they're 21/22 to play if they're good enough. |
The poaching rights must work in reverse though? ie maintaining category 1 may not help us poach from other clubs when we can’t afford it, but it surely protects us against our best prospects being poached? | | | |
| Dan James attracting Premier League clubs on 15:22 - Apr 29 with 1420 views | Badlands |
| Dan James attracting Premier League clubs on 16:45 - Apr 28 by DwightYorkeSuperstar |
I was mistaken about his move here. I am not mistaken when I say Sinclair was starting games in the Premier League at a younger age than when Dan broke through a league below. Sinclair was the better player between the two in my opinion. Let's see if Manchester City come in for James. |
In his first season with us Sinclair was 21 -22 yo
Played 50 games scored 27 goals and set up 3
0.54 goals per game
Contributing to 0.6 goals per game
James has gone from 20 - 21
Played 36 games scored 5 and assisted 9.
0.14 goals per game
Contributing to 0.38 goals per game |  |
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| Dan James attracting Premier League clubs on 15:27 - Apr 29 with 1410 views | jasper_T |
| Dan James attracting Premier League clubs on 15:07 - Apr 29 by jack247 |
The poaching rights must work in reverse though? ie maintaining category 1 may not help us poach from other clubs when we can’t afford it, but it surely protects us against our best prospects being poached? |
It does. There are still benefits to being at the top academy table. But it's an expensive insurance policy to take out if that's the primary purpose behind it. You have to hope there genuinely is a Matondo in there somewhere who both has the talent to eventually command high fees, and would be stolen away before a professional deal could be signed.
There was enough buzz around Rodon to suggest he might have been poached as a scholar, potentially. But Connor Roberts wasn't on many radars outside Swansea until he was a professional playing in League Two.
Even hindsight isn't 20:20 when it comes to youth development. Would Matondo have been seen as a £12m player without the City brand behind him? | | | |
| Dan James attracting Premier League clubs on 15:31 - Apr 29 with 1400 views | Uxbridge |
| Dan James attracting Premier League clubs on 16:48 - Apr 28 by trinityann |
If I was betting man, Dan will have a more successful career than Sinclair. Everytime I watch him at the Liberty is all round game is improving. A Bit of coaching in the finishing department and he could be the next Sterling. [Post edited 28 Apr 2019 16:49]
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It'a really difficult to know where the limit is with DJ. Nobody could in all honesty have predicted his rise in the last 6-8 months, so it's difficult to know where his ceiling is, but clearly he's improved immensely but he still has some major flaws in his game.
Important time for him. I hope he's being advised well, as the next 12 months will make or break his career IMO. |  |
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| Dan James attracting Premier League clubs on 17:54 - Apr 29 with 1260 views | jackrmee |
| Dan James attracting Premier League clubs on 15:27 - Apr 29 by jasper_T |
It does. There are still benefits to being at the top academy table. But it's an expensive insurance policy to take out if that's the primary purpose behind it. You have to hope there genuinely is a Matondo in there somewhere who both has the talent to eventually command high fees, and would be stolen away before a professional deal could be signed.
There was enough buzz around Rodon to suggest he might have been poached as a scholar, potentially. But Connor Roberts wasn't on many radars outside Swansea until he was a professional playing in League Two.
Even hindsight isn't 20:20 when it comes to youth development. Would Matondo have been seen as a £12m player without the City brand behind him? |
So what are the main purposes behind it?
*Acquiring more money for players when poached/sold.
*Ability to poach players from other clubs.
*Better choice for academy ready players compared to other academies.
*More full time staff and better coaching to bring through players sooner/better players.
*Playing agaginst better opposition, so be more ready for first team.
What else is the benefits of Cat1? | |
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| Dan James attracting Premier League clubs on 18:24 - Apr 29 with 1201 views | jasper_T |
| Dan James attracting Premier League clubs on 17:54 - Apr 29 by jackrmee |
So what are the main purposes behind it?
*Acquiring more money for players when poached/sold.
*Ability to poach players from other clubs.
*Better choice for academy ready players compared to other academies.
*More full time staff and better coaching to bring through players sooner/better players.
*Playing agaginst better opposition, so be more ready for first team.
What else is the benefits of Cat1? |
The idea behind the EPPP system is to improve youth coaching standards across the board, and the bodies behind it incentivise compliance with the upper, more costly tiers by rewarding clubs with poaching rights and competition places, yes.
Whether complying with the system is in a club's best interest is up to them. Brentford closed their academy and run a reserves team instead, and their production line is better than ever. And you don't have to claim the corresponding category to use certain facilities, or hire the best coaches on full hours. It's sets of minimum standards.
If you fancy a read the full (2011) document is here: https://www.goalreports.com/EPLPlan.pdf | | | |
| Dan James attracting Premier League clubs on 19:17 - Apr 29 with 1155 views | BytholWyn |
| Dan James attracting Premier League clubs on 18:24 - Apr 29 by jasper_T |
The idea behind the EPPP system is to improve youth coaching standards across the board, and the bodies behind it incentivise compliance with the upper, more costly tiers by rewarding clubs with poaching rights and competition places, yes.
Whether complying with the system is in a club's best interest is up to them. Brentford closed their academy and run a reserves team instead, and their production line is better than ever. And you don't have to claim the corresponding category to use certain facilities, or hire the best coaches on full hours. It's sets of minimum standards.
If you fancy a read the full (2011) document is here: https://www.goalreports.com/EPLPlan.pdf |
You make some good points Jasper but it's premature to say that Brentford's production line is better than ever - not least because their latest big money departure - Mepham - was developed by their academy from 2012 onwards, prior to its closure. In their case there was less of a case for retaining their academy because it wasn't a Category One academy (category two) and also their proximity, in London, to so many other academies that could easily poach their talent.
Brentford have certainly shown that the academy route isn't the only viable one for developing talent from within, but now that we've achieved Category One status, with all the big infrastructure spend behind us, it would be folly to abandon the academy any time soon. The sell on value of Rodon, Roberts, James, McBurnie and Byers easily pays for the academy for several years. The academy is about the long-term - and it's our best shot, along with having a top end manager in Potter, of us punching above our weight. You only have to look at Ajax to see what continual investment in your academy can achieve long-term. | | | |
| Dan James attracting Premier League clubs on 19:59 - Apr 29 with 1119 views | costalotta |
| Dan James attracting Premier League clubs on 11:58 - Apr 28 by DwightYorkeSuperstar |
At 21/22 years of age, Scott Sinclair scored 27 goals in 50 games, playing in the same position, in the same league as Dan James.
Dan has 3 goals in 24 games.
Dan may go on to have a more successful future, however one clearly showed more talent than the other at the same age. |
Scott Sinclair played a more settled side. One which was a few more years developed and a better one too.
Time will tell which one is better. |  | | |
| Dan James attracting Premier League clubs on 20:08 - Apr 29 with 1102 views | jasper_T |
| Dan James attracting Premier League clubs on 19:17 - Apr 29 by BytholWyn |
You make some good points Jasper but it's premature to say that Brentford's production line is better than ever - not least because their latest big money departure - Mepham - was developed by their academy from 2012 onwards, prior to its closure. In their case there was less of a case for retaining their academy because it wasn't a Category One academy (category two) and also their proximity, in London, to so many other academies that could easily poach their talent.
Brentford have certainly shown that the academy route isn't the only viable one for developing talent from within, but now that we've achieved Category One status, with all the big infrastructure spend behind us, it would be folly to abandon the academy any time soon. The sell on value of Rodon, Roberts, James, McBurnie and Byers easily pays for the academy for several years. The academy is about the long-term - and it's our best shot, along with having a top end manager in Potter, of us punching above our weight. You only have to look at Ajax to see what continual investment in your academy can achieve long-term. |
The value of the infrastructure isn't supposed to be the EPPP compliance factor. The facilities are beneficial to developing players, otherwise they wouldn't be part of the specs to begin with. You don't need to be Category One to use an indoor pitch or the u9s jacuzzi. Once you have them you can use them.
It's important not to conflate downgrading from Category One status with "abandoning the academy". They are not the same thing. It's also not especially useful to attribute the full value of those players potential transfers to future academy spending. DJ was signed when we were Category Two. Roberts would have likely been with us regardless of categorisation. Byers signed for us having made his debut for a Championship side. McBurnie we bought for £300k plus clauses as an EFL footballer. Developing players and selling them to stay solvent is a common strategy among clubs outside the top division, it's not the exclusive province of Cat One academies.
We are not Ajax. They are the biggest, richest club in a football nation with an academy with top historic pedigree (which counts for more than it should in some cases) and essentially rule the roost in bringing in players not just in Holland but from Denmark and others as well. We will never have their pull.
Everyone can't fish in the same pond and expect the same results. It's a competitive market and some clubs have better nets. There's no one-size fits all solution. | | | |
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