| Ford to cut 12,000 jobs in Europe. 12:53 - Jun 27 with 3248 views | SymondsYatjack |
I suppose someone on here will blame Brexit 😂 |  | | |  |
| Ford to cut 12,000 jobs in Europe. on 19:14 - Jun 27 with 687 views | PozuelosSideys |
| Ford to cut 12,000 jobs in Europe. on 15:32 - Jun 27 by londonlisa2001 |
He’s not saying that. Neither am I.
We’re both saying that the country has made the decision to grow in that way, and the people who are at the forefront of that decision are the ones most pushing for Brexit, as they think it’ll make it easier for them to have far less regulation in place. If you think the Poles are cheap, you’re in for a nasty surprise when you see who’ll come instead. Oh, and without the worker protections that the EU have introduced. |
The thing is. People like you, and me for that matter, arent generally competing against a never ending supply of cheap, inbound labor which is ready, able and wiling to undercut me and my skillset at every turn and impact my ability to pay the bills. That fella Wingstand is at the sharp end of the wedge and i personally find it a bit rich when relatively high earners at corporates are telling him he is wrong and they are right, especially when they sit in their West London abodes and rake it 100k+ salaries while hes being forced to pay for his work certificates, clothes, transport and agency fees etc whilst earning £10 an hour.
Now im not criticising you, id be a huge hypocrite to do so. But youre looking at this from an FD point of view in terms of budgets and costing etc and generally trying to keep a lifestyle which you have been accustomed to. Absolutely understand and agree. But fella's like him have been stitched up over and over and over by the middle classes and bosses of corporates. You can see why they trust none of them and willing to roll the dice in a Farage or a Johnson. |  |
| "Michu, Britton and Williams could have won 3-0 on their own. They wouldn't have required a keeper." | | Poll: | Hattricks |
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| Ford to cut 12,000 jobs in Europe. on 19:21 - Jun 27 with 670 views | LeonWasGod |
| Ford to cut 12,000 jobs in Europe. on 19:14 - Jun 27 by PozuelosSideys |
The thing is. People like you, and me for that matter, arent generally competing against a never ending supply of cheap, inbound labor which is ready, able and wiling to undercut me and my skillset at every turn and impact my ability to pay the bills. That fella Wingstand is at the sharp end of the wedge and i personally find it a bit rich when relatively high earners at corporates are telling him he is wrong and they are right, especially when they sit in their West London abodes and rake it 100k+ salaries while hes being forced to pay for his work certificates, clothes, transport and agency fees etc whilst earning £10 an hour.
Now im not criticising you, id be a huge hypocrite to do so. But youre looking at this from an FD point of view in terms of budgets and costing etc and generally trying to keep a lifestyle which you have been accustomed to. Absolutely understand and agree. But fella's like him have been stitched up over and over and over by the middle classes and bosses of corporates. You can see why they trust none of them and willing to roll the dice in a Farage or a Johnson. |
Good post. What confuses us who aren’t in that position is this bit - “fella's like him have been stitched up over and over and over by the middle classes and bosses of corporates.”
They absolutely refuse to see it, why? |  | | |
| Ford to cut 12,000 jobs in Europe. on 19:23 - Jun 27 with 669 views | SymondsYatjack |
| Ford to cut 12,000 jobs in Europe. on 19:14 - Jun 27 by PozuelosSideys |
The thing is. People like you, and me for that matter, arent generally competing against a never ending supply of cheap, inbound labor which is ready, able and wiling to undercut me and my skillset at every turn and impact my ability to pay the bills. That fella Wingstand is at the sharp end of the wedge and i personally find it a bit rich when relatively high earners at corporates are telling him he is wrong and they are right, especially when they sit in their West London abodes and rake it 100k+ salaries while hes being forced to pay for his work certificates, clothes, transport and agency fees etc whilst earning £10 an hour.
Now im not criticising you, id be a huge hypocrite to do so. But youre looking at this from an FD point of view in terms of budgets and costing etc and generally trying to keep a lifestyle which you have been accustomed to. Absolutely understand and agree. But fella's like him have been stitched up over and over and over by the middle classes and bosses of corporates. You can see why they trust none of them and willing to roll the dice in a Farage or a Johnson. |
Well said. One thing though, it’s just not the low skilled that have suffered.
Many, many highly skilled tradesmen's have a suffered too.
You can also factor in companies not bothering with apprenticeships because why should they, when there is a never ending supply of cheap foreign labour. [Post edited 27 Jun 2019 19:24]
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| Ford to cut 12,000 jobs in Europe. on 19:33 - Jun 27 with 652 views | LeonWasGod |
| Ford to cut 12,000 jobs in Europe. on 19:23 - Jun 27 by SymondsYatjack |
Well said. One thing though, it’s just not the low skilled that have suffered.
Many, many highly skilled tradesmen's have a suffered too.
You can also factor in companies not bothering with apprenticeships because why should they, when there is a never ending supply of cheap foreign labour. [Post edited 27 Jun 2019 19:24]
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Hmm, all the studies into the impacts of immigration have highlighted an overall negative (normally small and short term) only on low skill/low wage. And as Lisa mentioned somewhere, we’ll also continue to offer access to EU workers for periods of up to 3 months, so I can’t see that changing much in the construction industry.
The overall impact of immigration is positive. Sounds like you’re desperate to only find the negatives. | | | |
| Ford to cut 12,000 jobs in Europe. on 19:37 - Jun 27 with 646 views | PozuelosSideys |
| Ford to cut 12,000 jobs in Europe. on 19:21 - Jun 27 by LeonWasGod |
Good post. What confuses us who aren’t in that position is this bit - “fella's like him have been stitched up over and over and over by the middle classes and bosses of corporates.”
They absolutely refuse to see it, why? |
Cos the bosses sit up in their ivory tower and you never see them. Open your mouth and collect your P45.
On the ground its a different matter. Day after day you work with the same people. Happy enough. Then one day everything changes and youre being undercut by the new boys who work for less, send money home and when theyre have enough, go back to where they came from whilst youre still stuck in the same place on the same money (or less) for year after year. I bet it feels like a right cuckholding if i can use a porno term lol
The horse has bolted years ago though. Times were good. Then they changed. This is the reaction of a significant amount of average Joe who have zero power to actually change their lot. | |
| "Michu, Britton and Williams could have won 3-0 on their own. They wouldn't have required a keeper." | | Poll: | Hattricks |
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| Ford to cut 12,000 jobs in Europe. on 19:39 - Jun 27 with 640 views | SymondsYatjack |
| Ford to cut 12,000 jobs in Europe. on 19:33 - Jun 27 by LeonWasGod |
Hmm, all the studies into the impacts of immigration have highlighted an overall negative (normally small and short term) only on low skill/low wage. And as Lisa mentioned somewhere, we’ll also continue to offer access to EU workers for periods of up to 3 months, so I can’t see that changing much in the construction industry.
The overall impact of immigration is positive. Sounds like you’re desperate to only find the negatives. |
Studies carried out by whom ?
I disagree with mass immigration having a overall positive effect . | | | |
| Ford to cut 12,000 jobs in Europe. on 19:57 - Jun 27 with 601 views | PozuelosSideys |
| Ford to cut 12,000 jobs in Europe. on 19:39 - Jun 27 by SymondsYatjack |
Studies carried out by whom ?
I disagree with mass immigration having a overall positive effect . |
Well it does if you view it from a business point of view. Employment costs are the highest overhead almost every business has. There are lots of jobs which are in genuine need of foreign skills as we simply havent got enough of them here. Point your fingers at politicians and business themselves for that one - as you noted in your last post about lack of apprenticeships - particularly high skilled ones like engineering. Muppets like Blair and Corbyn etc want everyone to go Uni which is a nice soundbite, and a powerful one when youngsters see that doing stuff like plumbing or carpentry or whatever means you compete with the immigration workforce. In turn inflation stays lower, price indexes stay fairly stable etc. Theres certainly an upside to it. For me personally, the downside is housing cost in London which is a fcking nightmare. Yes, boo hoo i know.
Its mainly about control though. Like anything, too much of a good thing inevitably ends up being a negative to somebody, somewhere. Politicians of all colours and creeds to blame there. | |
| "Michu, Britton and Williams could have won 3-0 on their own. They wouldn't have required a keeper." | | Poll: | Hattricks |
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| Ford to cut 12,000 jobs in Europe. on 20:10 - Jun 27 with 589 views | Wingstandwood |
| Ford to cut 12,000 jobs in Europe. on 19:21 - Jun 27 by LeonWasGod |
Good post. What confuses us who aren’t in that position is this bit - “fella's like him have been stitched up over and over and over by the middle classes and bosses of corporates.”
They absolutely refuse to see it, why? |
Look just like with bygone Y.T.S/Y.O.P..... If there is not a passed law or policy (whether it be EU or Westminster) for unscrupulous employees to exploit there is NOTHING THERE TO EXPLOIT IN THE FIRST PLACE.
It starts at the top with the EU and U.K government.
Your differing take truly shows that one of us thinks completely different to the other. I think we're Poles (excuse the pun) apart!
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| Ford to cut 12,000 jobs in Europe. on 20:23 - Jun 27 with 562 views | SymondsYatjack |
| Ford to cut 12,000 jobs in Europe. on 19:57 - Jun 27 by PozuelosSideys |
Well it does if you view it from a business point of view. Employment costs are the highest overhead almost every business has. There are lots of jobs which are in genuine need of foreign skills as we simply havent got enough of them here. Point your fingers at politicians and business themselves for that one - as you noted in your last post about lack of apprenticeships - particularly high skilled ones like engineering. Muppets like Blair and Corbyn etc want everyone to go Uni which is a nice soundbite, and a powerful one when youngsters see that doing stuff like plumbing or carpentry or whatever means you compete with the immigration workforce. In turn inflation stays lower, price indexes stay fairly stable etc. Theres certainly an upside to it. For me personally, the downside is housing cost in London which is a fcking nightmare. Yes, boo hoo i know.
Its mainly about control though. Like anything, too much of a good thing inevitably ends up being a negative to somebody, somewhere. Politicians of all colours and creeds to blame there. |
Ah yes. What a great idea to send people to university who in reality shouldn’t be there.
To gain a qualification in nothing and on a piece of paper that’s worth more than the qualification, itself.....fantastic 😂 | | | |
| Ford to cut 12,000 jobs in Europe. on 20:24 - Jun 27 with 560 views | sherpajacob |
It's not just leavers and remainers who are poles apart.
The biggest gulf is between the 2 conflicting sides of the leave debate.
The kippers generally want closed borders and minimal immigration.
The ERG and economists for free trade, want a completely open economy because they control Capital and would have no problem staffing their businesses from the cheapest possible source, be it Africa, The sub continent or anywhere else. In the name of global Britain |  |
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| Ford to cut 12,000 jobs in Europe. on 20:59 - Jun 27 with 531 views | Darran |
Seriously though,like I said in the Fords Bridgend thread a couple of weeks ago I still don’t get why we make so many cars when the current ones last longer than ever. |  |
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| Ford to cut 12,000 jobs in Europe. on 21:05 - Jun 27 with 526 views | longlostjack |
| Ford to cut 12,000 jobs in Europe. on 20:10 - Jun 27 by Wingstandwood |
Look just like with bygone Y.T.S/Y.O.P..... If there is not a passed law or policy (whether it be EU or Westminster) for unscrupulous employees to exploit there is NOTHING THERE TO EXPLOIT IN THE FIRST PLACE.
It starts at the top with the EU and U.K government.
Your differing take truly shows that one of us thinks completely different to the other. I think we're Poles (excuse the pun) apart!
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You’ve hit the nail on the head there. It’s bloody Westminster that is responsible for enforcing employment legislation though not the EU. Germans very strict on ensuring laws are applied on construction sites and Swedes are even tougher. Tory Britain is a sham and the EU a convenient scapegoat. The Ragged Trousered Philanthropist (Robert Tressel) is well worth a read if you haven’t already. Don’t blame the Bulgarians blame the money grabbing developers. Same old Tories. |  |
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| Ford to cut 12,000 jobs in Europe. on 21:17 - Jun 27 with 507 views | SymondsYatjack |
| Ford to cut 12,000 jobs in Europe. on 20:24 - Jun 27 by sherpajacob |
It's not just leavers and remainers who are poles apart.
The biggest gulf is between the 2 conflicting sides of the leave debate.
The kippers generally want closed borders and minimal immigration.
The ERG and economists for free trade, want a completely open economy because they control Capital and would have no problem staffing their businesses from the cheapest possible source, be it Africa, The sub continent or anywhere else. In the name of global Britain |
Who has said closed borders ?
Give me an example. | | | |
| Ford to cut 12,000 jobs in Europe. on 21:22 - Jun 27 with 502 views | Wingstandwood |
| Ford to cut 12,000 jobs in Europe. on 21:05 - Jun 27 by longlostjack |
You’ve hit the nail on the head there. It’s bloody Westminster that is responsible for enforcing employment legislation though not the EU. Germans very strict on ensuring laws are applied on construction sites and Swedes are even tougher. Tory Britain is a sham and the EU a convenient scapegoat. The Ragged Trousered Philanthropist (Robert Tressel) is well worth a read if you haven’t already. Don’t blame the Bulgarians blame the money grabbing developers. Same old Tories. |
It's Peter Hitchens take that New Labour had (just like Tories) also used EU policy/legislation to drive down wages and employment conditions. He also stated that New Labour had additional motive also because apparently in his opinion the people let into the country are more likely to vote Labour anyhow.
It's a hand-in-a-glove chain i.e. EU > Westminster > exploitative employer. It has (not two in The Stranglers song) taken three to tango in this circumstance. That is the undeniable common sense reality take. | |
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| Ford to cut 12,000 jobs in Europe. on 21:59 - Jun 27 with 471 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Ford to cut 12,000 jobs in Europe. on 19:14 - Jun 27 by PozuelosSideys |
The thing is. People like you, and me for that matter, arent generally competing against a never ending supply of cheap, inbound labor which is ready, able and wiling to undercut me and my skillset at every turn and impact my ability to pay the bills. That fella Wingstand is at the sharp end of the wedge and i personally find it a bit rich when relatively high earners at corporates are telling him he is wrong and they are right, especially when they sit in their West London abodes and rake it 100k+ salaries while hes being forced to pay for his work certificates, clothes, transport and agency fees etc whilst earning £10 an hour.
Now im not criticising you, id be a huge hypocrite to do so. But youre looking at this from an FD point of view in terms of budgets and costing etc and generally trying to keep a lifestyle which you have been accustomed to. Absolutely understand and agree. But fella's like him have been stitched up over and over and over by the middle classes and bosses of corporates. You can see why they trust none of them and willing to roll the dice in a Farage or a Johnson. |
You’re completely missing my point on all of this.
I’m not saying it’s not an issue, I’m saying he (and others) are blaming the wrong people.
Btw - I’m not remotely trying to keep a lifestyle, I’m retired (or semi retired). None of it makes a difference to me personally. In fact, given my expertise is in restructuring companies, it’s fairer to say that an economic disaster helps me personally as i’ll have more opportunities than I can shake a stick at. I am just angry at the lies that are being told.
I’ve said a number of times I can completely understand his point (and Jango’s). But what they think will happen and what’s most likely to happen are not the same. | | | |
| Ford to cut 12,000 jobs in Europe. on 22:16 - Jun 27 with 461 views | longlostjack |
| Ford to cut 12,000 jobs in Europe. on 21:22 - Jun 27 by Wingstandwood |
It's Peter Hitchens take that New Labour had (just like Tories) also used EU policy/legislation to drive down wages and employment conditions. He also stated that New Labour had additional motive also because apparently in his opinion the people let into the country are more likely to vote Labour anyhow.
It's a hand-in-a-glove chain i.e. EU > Westminster > exploitative employer. It has (not two in The Stranglers song) taken three to tango in this circumstance. That is the undeniable common sense reality take. |
The EU hasn’t driven down employment conditions! Compare the UK to Denmark for example. Both are in the EU but are miles apart when it comes to enforcing labour law. It’s the Tories who love cheap unregulated labour. Don’t you wonder why the likes of Hitchens have been railing against EU working time directives? As for the rag he writes for, Lord Rothermere the owner is more concerned about EU moves to tighten up on tax havens. The EU is a wonderful scapegoat. The problems lie closer to home. [Post edited 27 Jun 2019 22:17]
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| Ford to cut 12,000 jobs in Europe. on 23:05 - Jun 27 with 426 views | sherpajacob |
| Ford to cut 12,000 jobs in Europe. on 21:17 - Jun 27 by SymondsYatjack |
Who has said closed borders ?
Give me an example. |
Have you watched question time recently? | |
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| Ford to cut 12,000 jobs in Europe. on 12:24 - Jun 28 with 347 views | AlfieMooresSon |
I suppose someone on here will blame Brexit 😂
Spot on nothing to do with Brexit, all to do with changing world economies and cheaper labour in China, Malaysia, and shitty parts of Europe, and the fact that electric cars are going to totally change things drastically! | | | |
| Ford to cut 12,000 jobs in Europe. on 12:25 - Jun 28 with 344 views | costalotta |
| Ford to cut 12,000 jobs in Europe. on 12:24 - Jun 28 by AlfieMooresSon |
I suppose someone on here will blame Brexit 😂
Spot on nothing to do with Brexit, all to do with changing world economies and cheaper labour in China, Malaysia, and shitty parts of Europe, and the fact that electric cars are going to totally change things drastically! |
Do they currently mass produce electric cars in the countries you mention? |  | | |
| Ford to cut 12,000 jobs in Europe. on 12:30 - Jun 28 with 342 views | AlfieMooresSon |
| Ford to cut 12,000 jobs in Europe. on 12:25 - Jun 28 by costalotta |
Do they currently mass produce electric cars in the countries you mention? |
If companies like Ford and the rest they will do, they are using this change and the slowdown in China to restructure and slash costs and improve profits.
The switch to electric cars, heating and virtually everything is a great opportunity, which we should be grabbing! | | | |
| Ford to cut 12,000 jobs in Europe. on 12:35 - Jun 28 with 339 views | costalotta |
| Ford to cut 12,000 jobs in Europe. on 12:30 - Jun 28 by AlfieMooresSon |
If companies like Ford and the rest they will do, they are using this change and the slowdown in China to restructure and slash costs and improve profits.
The switch to electric cars, heating and virtually everything is a great opportunity, which we should be grabbing! |
So they do not currently build electric cars in those countries? | | | |
| Ford to cut 12,000 jobs in Europe. on 12:38 - Jun 28 with 335 views | costalotta |
| Ford to cut 12,000 jobs in Europe. on 12:30 - Jun 28 by AlfieMooresSon |
If companies like Ford and the rest they will do, they are using this change and the slowdown in China to restructure and slash costs and improve profits.
The switch to electric cars, heating and virtually everything is a great opportunity, which we should be grabbing! |
I agree that we should be grabbing those opportunities, theres so many opportunities.
Do we currently build electric cars in this country? (y/n)
Do we have the workforce in this country to build electric cars? (y/n) | | | |
| Ford to cut 12,000 jobs in Europe. on 13:12 - Jun 28 with 306 views | Cooperman |
| Ford to cut 12,000 jobs in Europe. on 20:59 - Jun 27 by Darran |
Seriously though,like I said in the Fords Bridgend thread a couple of weeks ago I still don’t get why we make so many cars when the current ones last longer than ever. |
A growing population.
More families becoming two or three car families.
Mobility becoming more affordable for poorer regions and nations.
People now more inclined to commute for work.
All of the above have contributed to volume growth over the past decade.
The days of a booming market are over for the time being in many cases. European volumes are falling in some segments and it's worse still in Japan and US. Even China is not growing at the rates that were expected.
It's a myth that vehicle manufacturers are designing cars that will last forever and instead their goal is to design something that lasts sufficiently long enough for you to be happy to purchase a new one when the time comes. |  |
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| Ford to cut 12,000 jobs in Europe. on 13:15 - Jun 28 with 302 views | Cooperman |
| Ford to cut 12,000 jobs in Europe. on 12:24 - Jun 28 by AlfieMooresSon |
I suppose someone on here will blame Brexit 😂
Spot on nothing to do with Brexit, all to do with changing world economies and cheaper labour in China, Malaysia, and shitty parts of Europe, and the fact that electric cars are going to totally change things drastically! |
Vehicle production in China is generally for the Chinese market rather than export. | |
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