| "16 of the 28 players currently in Spain have come through the Swans' academy... 19:13 - Jul 4 with 2007 views | jackrmee |
...or featured for the Under-23s.
That's fuking class! |  |
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| "16 of the 28 players currently in Spain have come through the Swans' academy... on 21:54 - Jul 4 with 1835 views | Chief |
Who's being counted in that then? Should Mcburnie and Grimes who'd already played first team senior football elsewhere before coming? |  |
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| "16 of the 28 players currently in Spain have come through the Swans' academy... on 21:57 - Jul 4 with 1831 views | Dr_Winston |
Our Academy has been a total waste of time according to some dullards. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| "16 of the 28 players currently in Spain have come through the Swans' academy... on 22:19 - Jul 4 with 1778 views | jasper_T |
| "16 of the 28 players currently in Spain have come through the Swans' academy... on 21:54 - Jul 4 by Chief |
Who's being counted in that then? Should Mcburnie and Grimes who'd already played first team senior football elsewhere before coming? |
"16 members of the group either came through the Swans academy system or featured for the club's under-23 side."
By my count it's possibly 18 using that definition.
Steven Benda, Connor Roberts, Joe Rodon,
Cian Harries, Declan John, Matt Grimes (might have still been u21s when he played),
George Byers, Jay Fulton, Yan Dhanda,
Oli McBurnie, Courtney-Baker-Richardson, Brandon Cooper,
Ben Cabango, Joe Lewis, Liam Cullen,
Jordon Garrick, Jack Evans, Joel Asoro.
It's definitely cheating to include the three lads who played for the development teams this season after we brought them in last summer, though. Dhanda and Asoro played for the first team first.
8 of that list had played senior football elsewhere before joining us. |  | | |
| "16 of the 28 players currently in Spain have come through the Swans' academy... on 05:55 - Jul 5 with 1691 views | Kilkennyjack |
| "16 of the 28 players currently in Spain have come through the Swans' academy... on 21:57 - Jul 4 by Dr_Winston |
Our Academy has been a total waste of time according to some dullards. |
Or just be a happy clapper whilst our Premiership team got relegated....
Some people might point out that Ben Davies made his debut in 2012.
Since then, the only meaningful first team players we have actually produced are Connor and big Joe. Fact. |  |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| "16 of the 28 players currently in Spain have come through the Swans' academy... on 08:04 - Jul 5 with 1586 views | vetchonian |
| "16 of the 28 players currently in Spain have come through the Swans' academy... on 05:55 - Jul 5 by Kilkennyjack |
Or just be a happy clapper whilst our Premiership team got relegated....
Some people might point out that Ben Davies made his debut in 2012.
Since then, the only meaningful first team players we have actually produced are Connor and big Joe. Fact. |
The fact we were in the PL contributed to that,especially as since 2014 we were in decline firstly the mad Monk began dismantling our identity and we became an identikit club more focused on just buying in players then we were in freefall with manager after manager attempting to keep us in the PL to continue the keep the goose which layed the golden egg....not the right environment to bring through players form the acadamy!
Last season Potter's hand was forced and more of those players came through.
The rationale behind the acadamy in fact could have been good for us if we had kept on developing our model of being a "different " club....using talented players who fitted our system and style of play rather than allowing a riookie egotisitcal manager to dismantle it all.
Bringing in players who had not quite made it at other clubs at a "reasonable"/economic price then developing them into our style and system in the acadmy before then progressing to the first team where they could "fit" in would have given us an edge and ability to "compete" in the PL without too much financial outlay......I think that was a vision of ROberto's who always had the development players mixing with the first team...but hey ho it was never to be.
We were in danger of relegation from day 1....it became a reality when we started throwing cash at it,changed our direction as a club...and yes you are right until Connor and Joe there has been a 6 year gap since Ben...but given what the club were going through in trying to keep that PL status it wasnt the time! | |
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| "16 of the 28 players currently in Spain have come through the Swans' academy... on 08:55 - Jul 5 with 1523 views | jack247 |
Is it fuking class, or is it an indication of how bad our finances are? | | | |
| "16 of the 28 players currently in Spain have come through the Swans' academy... on 09:16 - Jul 5 with 1487 views | DrGonzo |
I'd say it's a damning indictment of our recent transfer policy. We've been very lucky the youngsters have stepped up. |  | | |
| (No subject) on 09:41 - Jul 5 with 1447 views | LeonWasGod |
| "16 of the 28 players currently in Spain have come through the Swans' academy... on 08:55 - Jul 5 by jack247 |
Is it fuking class, or is it an indication of how bad our finances are? |
Both I reckon. It can be a source of pride that we're doing what a lot of fans would like to see happen at their clubs. But it's also forced on us through the incompetent running of the club over the last few years.
The big question is whether the new lot can step up. Last year was a big enough ask and now we're asking more of a new bunch having lost more experience and our star man. It's going to be a massive ask unless they add a couple of bits of extra quality. [Post edited 5 Jul 2019 9:43]
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| "16 of the 28 players currently in Spain have come through the Swans' academy... on 09:44 - Jul 5 with 1443 views | Chief |
| "16 of the 28 players currently in Spain have come through the Swans' academy... on 22:19 - Jul 4 by jasper_T |
"16 members of the group either came through the Swans academy system or featured for the club's under-23 side."
By my count it's possibly 18 using that definition.
Steven Benda, Connor Roberts, Joe Rodon,
Cian Harries, Declan John, Matt Grimes (might have still been u21s when he played),
George Byers, Jay Fulton, Yan Dhanda,
Oli McBurnie, Courtney-Baker-Richardson, Brandon Cooper,
Ben Cabango, Joe Lewis, Liam Cullen,
Jordon Garrick, Jack Evans, Joel Asoro.
It's definitely cheating to include the three lads who played for the development teams this season after we brought them in last summer, though. Dhanda and Asoro played for the first team first.
8 of that list had played senior football elsewhere before joining us. |
Declan John!? | |
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| "16 of the 28 players currently in Spain have come through the Swans' academy... on 09:51 - Jul 5 with 1431 views | jasper_T |
| "16 of the 28 players currently in Spain have come through the Swans' academy... on 09:44 - Jul 5 by Chief |
Declan John!? |
He played for the u23s last season.
Could even add Leon to the list. | | | |
| "16 of the 28 players currently in Spain have come through the Swans' academy... on 10:14 - Jul 5 with 1395 views | Chief |
| "16 of the 28 players currently in Spain have come through the Swans' academy... on 09:51 - Jul 5 by jasper_T |
He played for the u23s last season.
Could even add Leon to the list. |
This is just getting silly now | |
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| (No subject) on 10:18 - Jul 5 with 1389 views | jack247 |
| (No subject) on 09:41 - Jul 5 by LeonWasGod |
Both I reckon. It can be a source of pride that we're doing what a lot of fans would like to see happen at their clubs. But it's also forced on us through the incompetent running of the club over the last few years.
The big question is whether the new lot can step up. Last year was a big enough ask and now we're asking more of a new bunch having lost more experience and our star man. It's going to be a massive ask unless they add a couple of bits of extra quality. [Post edited 5 Jul 2019 9:43]
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Yeah. My post came across more negatively than intended.
The main reason we have so many that cane through the ranks on tour is because we had to get rid of pretty much everyone we could on a chunky wage. Even so, it’s still a great endorsement for the academy and the work and resources that have gone into it over the years. | | | |
| "16 of the 28 players currently in Spain have come through the Swans' academy... on 10:19 - Jul 5 with 1386 views | jasper_T |
Mulder played for the u23s as well once (maybe twice), forgot about him.
Remember thinking he looked shaky and worse than Benda. | | | |
| "16 of the 28 players currently in Spain have come through the Swans' academy... on 10:23 - Jul 5 with 1374 views | gordondg |
'A great endorsement of the academy'next season's league position will tell us that,one way or the other. | | | |
| (No subject) on 10:53 - Jul 5 with 1348 views | Blue_Blood |
Fecking hell I thought our fans were bad!
If you can't be happy that you're academy have produced so many players able to stand up and compete in the top half of the championship then you need a reality check! | | | |
| "16 of the 28 players currently in Spain have come through the Swans' academy... on 10:55 - Jul 5 with 1346 views | Swan91 |
| "16 of the 28 players currently in Spain have come through the Swans' academy... on 09:16 - Jul 5 by DrGonzo |
I'd say it's a damning indictment of our recent transfer policy. We've been very lucky the youngsters have stepped up. |
hmmmmm... lucky..? definitely not luck at all. Managers and coaches come in.. notice the potential of the youth players and are able to use them. | | | |
| (No subject) on 11:24 - Jul 5 with 1324 views | jack247 |
| (No subject) on 10:53 - Jul 5 by Blue_Blood |
Fecking hell I thought our fans were bad!
If you can't be happy that you're academy have produced so many players able to stand up and compete in the top half of the championship then you need a reality check! |
We won’t know that until later in the season.
Obviously there are a few in there that have more than proved themselves in the Championship. There are a lot though, that haven’t played or only have a handful of games under their belt.
To be fair, it’s a pre season training camp. You’d expect a few youngsters who probably won’t play much next season to be involved. | | | |
| "16 of the 28 players currently in Spain have come through the Swans' academy... on 11:28 - Jul 5 with 1313 views | hobo |
| "16 of the 28 players currently in Spain have come through the Swans' academy... on 21:57 - Jul 4 by Dr_Winston |
Our Academy has been a total waste of time according to some dullards. |
We also can't afford to keep CAT 1 according to some dullards. It. Pays. For. Itself |  | | |
| (No subject) on 12:27 - Jul 5 with 1272 views | Blue_Blood |
| (No subject) on 11:24 - Jul 5 by jack247 |
We won’t know that until later in the season.
Obviously there are a few in there that have more than proved themselves in the Championship. There are a lot though, that haven’t played or only have a handful of games under their belt.
To be fair, it’s a pre season training camp. You’d expect a few youngsters who probably won’t play much next season to be involved. |
Of course but I'm not on about the 16 quoted in this thread, I'm talking about the players that stood up last season.
I do think that some of your signings for the u23s are based on name or previous clubs etc and perhaps you could tighten up in that area, nevertheless the business you have done has paid for itself in selling just one player!
I was told not long ago that it costs your club £2.5 - 3 million a year to run cat 1 with grants etc, so if that is true and you just nurture what is already there instead of bringing in players from outside then the sale of Dan James would pay for the academy at category 1 for the next 6 years and that's without the other assets that have come through your system.
I find it mind boggling that your fans give the academy so little credit when so many other academies in the country (including ours) are currently not fit for purpose. | | | |
| (No subject) on 12:50 - Jul 5 with 1233 views | jasper_T |
| (No subject) on 12:27 - Jul 5 by Blue_Blood |
Of course but I'm not on about the 16 quoted in this thread, I'm talking about the players that stood up last season.
I do think that some of your signings for the u23s are based on name or previous clubs etc and perhaps you could tighten up in that area, nevertheless the business you have done has paid for itself in selling just one player!
I was told not long ago that it costs your club £2.5 - 3 million a year to run cat 1 with grants etc, so if that is true and you just nurture what is already there instead of bringing in players from outside then the sale of Dan James would pay for the academy at category 1 for the next 6 years and that's without the other assets that have come through your system.
I find it mind boggling that your fans give the academy so little credit when so many other academies in the country (including ours) are currently not fit for purpose. |
Sunderland's owners were quoted as saying their Cat One setup cost them £4m a year. Cat Two is less than half that iirc. And we weren't running things close to the wire judging by how many development coaches we've made redundant without compromising status.
Dan James is an interesting example as when we bought him in we were still only Cat Two, from then Cat Three Hull. Lloyd Kelly came through Bristol's Cat Two system. Jack Clarke Leeds Cat Two as well. Brentford have no academy and turned Mepham over for a tidy profit last seaosn.
How much benefit we get out of Cat One compared to the other categories going forward will be interesting to look at. Already lost Checkatrade fixtures, which gave most of the local lads their first tastes of competitive senior football. We won't be recruiting players for hundreds of thousands every season to bolster the u23 squad, either, so being competitive in PL2/international cup fixtures could remain a challenge despite relegation.
It's easy to say "it pays for itself" immediately after our only major sale since the current academy system was introduced, but how well it pays for itself compared to other options, at a time when cash is very limited, is a more complex question.
I'm delighted we've kept Cat One for another season but it's because I enjoy the standard (some of these cup games against Cat Two clubs are horrific, Oxford away was a rugby match) not because it's profitable. | | | |
| (No subject) on 13:28 - Jul 5 with 1199 views | Blue_Blood |
| (No subject) on 12:50 - Jul 5 by jasper_T |
Sunderland's owners were quoted as saying their Cat One setup cost them £4m a year. Cat Two is less than half that iirc. And we weren't running things close to the wire judging by how many development coaches we've made redundant without compromising status.
Dan James is an interesting example as when we bought him in we were still only Cat Two, from then Cat Three Hull. Lloyd Kelly came through Bristol's Cat Two system. Jack Clarke Leeds Cat Two as well. Brentford have no academy and turned Mepham over for a tidy profit last seaosn.
How much benefit we get out of Cat One compared to the other categories going forward will be interesting to look at. Already lost Checkatrade fixtures, which gave most of the local lads their first tastes of competitive senior football. We won't be recruiting players for hundreds of thousands every season to bolster the u23 squad, either, so being competitive in PL2/international cup fixtures could remain a challenge despite relegation.
It's easy to say "it pays for itself" immediately after our only major sale since the current academy system was introduced, but how well it pays for itself compared to other options, at a time when cash is very limited, is a more complex question.
I'm delighted we've kept Cat One for another season but it's because I enjoy the standard (some of these cup games against Cat Two clubs are horrific, Oxford away was a rugby match) not because it's profitable. |
I seen what the Sunderland owners said and I'm not in a position to argue with them but they may have greater outlays running their academy and it doesn't necessarily mean that your academy costs the same. I'm sure Man City and Chelsea's academy costs a lot more than £4 million to run for example.
I'm only using the example of Dan James cos the figures are there in black and white. You have other big assets which could feasibly make that profit £50 million +
Mcburnie and Connor Roberts alone would send that profit figure soaring beyond £40 million so I don't see how people can't see that the academy has been a huge success.
I'm not saying that it's impossible to produce if you went cat 2 or even cat 3, but what I am saying it that it would be far more difficult and your whole strategy would have to change.
Jack Clarke for example was probably introduced to u23 football and stretched at a young age to prepare him for first team football at 17/18. You may be able to do that with 1 or 2 but you've had half a team come through your own system (whether they were bought in like James, Mcburnie or whether they've come through the system like Roberts and Rodan)
You cannot convince me that Dan James hasn't benefited from playing against teams like Chelsea or Spurs at u18 and u23 level in the last few years and this hasn't acceleration his progress, whether he was signed when you were cat 3 or not.
You competed in the championship last season and often dominated games with a group of players who were tested to the max at youth level individually and collectively and this has benefited your squad.
You brought those players through in bulk last season and as you have said yourself, Jack Evans would probably have added to that number if it was for the illness.
I can't believe I'm a Cardiff fan on here arguing for your club against your own fans to be honest! | | | |
| (No subject) on 13:31 - Jul 5 with 1195 views | jack247 |
| (No subject) on 12:27 - Jul 5 by Blue_Blood |
Of course but I'm not on about the 16 quoted in this thread, I'm talking about the players that stood up last season.
I do think that some of your signings for the u23s are based on name or previous clubs etc and perhaps you could tighten up in that area, nevertheless the business you have done has paid for itself in selling just one player!
I was told not long ago that it costs your club £2.5 - 3 million a year to run cat 1 with grants etc, so if that is true and you just nurture what is already there instead of bringing in players from outside then the sale of Dan James would pay for the academy at category 1 for the next 6 years and that's without the other assets that have come through your system.
I find it mind boggling that your fans give the academy so little credit when so many other academies in the country (including ours) are currently not fit for purpose. |
I wouldn’t say many of our fans don’t credit the academy. Ok Kilkenny hates it, but most recognise it was our salvation last season.
Having more than half a pre season tour squad coming through the development system is as much a product of financial necessity as a credit to its effectiveness though.
Unfortunately, a lot of the Dan James money will go to Andre Ayew and his mates. We’re not yet in a position where we can sell a player for £15m and run the academy for years off the back of it. | | | |
| "16 of the 28 players currently in Spain have come through the Swans' academy... on 15:57 - Jul 5 with 1087 views | DrGonzo |
Notice the potential? Our best players were sold and not replaced. We haven't adequately transferred in players for years and got lucky that the players coming through were excellent and didn't really suffer with injuries.
Luck played a huge part last season. | | | |
| "16 of the 28 players currently in Spain have come through the Swans' academy... on 16:40 - Jul 5 with 1040 views | jasper_T |
The players that came through last season were excellent because they were the best of a big group that had weeded itself out over 3 or 4 years of competition. No small amount of money paid on players that didn't make it through. The ones that got chances were there on merit, and overdue their opportunities.
Except CBR.
Not many of them were playing out of necessity, either. Rodon for a couple of games before CCV arrived. McBurnie was already a 1 in 2 Championship striker. The long term injuries we had (Fer, Olsson, Carroll, Montero) didn't effect us because the squad was large and talented enough to cope. Established players and new signings waited on the sidelines for long periods, not good enough to break into the team. | | | |
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