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Britain's brexit crisis BBC one 9 21:07 - Jul 18 with 3034 viewsLord_Bony

What a forkn mess.

Theresa May and her team had no brexit plan in place after Cameron, basically they didn't have a clue what to do next.

But the EU did the other side of the channel ,they were scared and they knew they had to make an example of us to stop other countries following suit.

A recipe for disaster.

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Britain's brexit crisis BBC one 9 on 19:20 - Jul 19 with 1048 viewsmajorraglan

Britain's brexit crisis BBC one 9 on 14:08 - Jul 19 by trinityann

There is nothing ground breaking there, a few caveman could have rallied a good union to achieve this. All I see is work exploitation at the moment because influx of foreign labour.

Today's kids lucky to get 12 hours a week and then be on stand by incase they get a call. They normally get three strikes and then they are out. Where the next gen of home owners coming from. They will be slaves to landlords.


Not saying it’s ground breaking, but it’s more than our government has delivered. That’s said I do agree with you about about zero hours contracts and renting houses.
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Britain's brexit crisis BBC one 9 on 19:30 - Jul 19 with 1027 viewsmajorraglan

I haven’t seen the Panorama TV program, but the below article which draws on it clearly shows up what a shambolic bunch of incompetents idiots we have in charge of our government and how poor and self serving the opposition are.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49008826
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Britain's brexit crisis BBC one 9 on 19:35 - Jul 19 with 1014 viewsexiledclaseboy

Britain's brexit crisis BBC one 9 on 19:30 - Jul 19 by majorraglan

I haven’t seen the Panorama TV program, but the below article which draws on it clearly shows up what a shambolic bunch of incompetents idiots we have in charge of our government and how poor and self serving the opposition are.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49008826


It wasn’t a Panorama but it’s worth a watch regardless. It really did show up the incompetence of May and her ministers.

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Britain's brexit crisis BBC one 9 on 19:45 - Jul 19 with 993 viewsLord_Bony

Britain's brexit crisis BBC one 9 on 19:30 - Jul 19 by majorraglan

I haven’t seen the Panorama TV program, but the below article which draws on it clearly shows up what a shambolic bunch of incompetents idiots we have in charge of our government and how poor and self serving the opposition are.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49008826


Yep.

Sums it up nicely. We invoked Article 50 to leave without any plans for negotiations whatsoever.

I mean come on,that’s just plain daft...the EU were pissing themselves laughing at us,we had no road map on this whatsoever.

It should have been hammered out in parliament first then A50 delivered. Instead we put ourselves under the cosh straight away with not much to negotiate with by delivering it to Brussels before the country had a chance to debate the best way forward. Teresa agreed virtually to pay everything the EU wanted from the divorce settlement. She would have even sold N Ireland down the river with the backstop agreement.

And Boris Johnson,Don’t get me started on him.
An idiotic government has made a total hash of it with no competent opposition in site.

The UK is forked well and truly.

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Britain's brexit crisis BBC one 9 on 19:54 - Jul 19 with 980 viewslondonlisa2001

If people cast their minds back, the people that are currently loudly proclaiming that a negotiation should never take no deal off the table were, at that point, equally loudly telling everyone that pointed out the lack of planning, that everything was under control, but you never reveal your plans to the other side which is why everything was so secret.

The fact that it is now proven that things were being kept secret because we had no plans to reveal, rather than it being part of some master negotiating strategy, will not lead to anyone saying they were wrong.

In every case, at every point in the journey, the balls up that is brexit is blamed on remainers rather than the fundamental flaw of Brexit in the first place, namely, there is no deal that is better than the one we have.
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Britain's brexit crisis BBC one 9 on 20:02 - Jul 19 with 966 viewsLord_Bony

Britain's brexit crisis BBC one 9 on 19:54 - Jul 19 by londonlisa2001

If people cast their minds back, the people that are currently loudly proclaiming that a negotiation should never take no deal off the table were, at that point, equally loudly telling everyone that pointed out the lack of planning, that everything was under control, but you never reveal your plans to the other side which is why everything was so secret.

The fact that it is now proven that things were being kept secret because we had no plans to reveal, rather than it being part of some master negotiating strategy, will not lead to anyone saying they were wrong.

In every case, at every point in the journey, the balls up that is brexit is blamed on remainers rather than the fundamental flaw of Brexit in the first place, namely, there is no deal that is better than the one we have.


I voted leave but not for this mess.

Now everything is much clearer to the voting populace, we are all much more informed as a result.

I have said on many occasions we need a second referendum on this as it is too important a matter to just bulldoze it through with Boris at the helm and a no deal scenario in October.

Unfortunately, that now looks the likely outcome. It could have been so different .

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Britain's brexit crisis BBC one 9 on 20:03 - Jul 19 with 965 viewsWingstandwood

Britain's brexit crisis BBC one 9 on 19:20 - Jul 19 by majorraglan

Not saying it’s ground breaking, but it’s more than our government has delivered. That’s said I do agree with you about about zero hours contracts and renting houses.


A lot of EU law is bypassed by employers, seen it myself firsthand with enforced (or get sacked) 18 hour shifts. If the EU was the employees and working classes true ally it would at the very least have tried to listen.

The fact is agencies and associated zero hour contracts are the norm for many and they have bred under EU watch like bacteria in a petri dish! It's been hand in glove with the EU facilitating it by means of its blatant ignorance. And yep! Right wing government(s) at home have exploited EU policy to the hilt. And New Labour were equally guilty!

And very nice of the EU to offer 'health and safety' laws when a significant percentage of employees now have to pay for their tickets out of their pockets anyhow. And the same applies to paying for high-viz-vests, hard hats, steel toe capped boots, other safety items e.g. googles, ear protectors, breathing protection, protective clothing etc. Oh and many have to in a lot of cases even have to pay for their own tools also. Utter joke and overhyped this mythical EU worker protection.

You see the anti-EU (look at the map!) working class rebellion sort of says something very profound i.e. the motivation, cause and effect, and reasoning to do so did not randomly fall out of the sky one day.
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Britain's brexit crisis BBC one 9 on 20:08 - Jul 19 with 949 viewslondonlisa2001

Britain's brexit crisis BBC one 9 on 20:02 - Jul 19 by Lord_Bony

I voted leave but not for this mess.

Now everything is much clearer to the voting populace, we are all much more informed as a result.

I have said on many occasions we need a second referendum on this as it is too important a matter to just bulldoze it through with Boris at the helm and a no deal scenario in October.

Unfortunately, that now looks the likely outcome. It could have been so different .


We will end up either leaving with May’s deal (with a few minor tweaks to make it look like it’s changed to save face) or we won’t leave.

Boris will be brought down if he tries to force through a no deal. And even if no deal happens, we still end up with May’s deal when we go back, cap in hand. We have to have an agreement with the EU.
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Britain's brexit crisis BBC one 9 on 20:10 - Jul 19 with 945 viewslondonlisa2001

Britain's brexit crisis BBC one 9 on 20:03 - Jul 19 by Wingstandwood

A lot of EU law is bypassed by employers, seen it myself firsthand with enforced (or get sacked) 18 hour shifts. If the EU was the employees and working classes true ally it would at the very least have tried to listen.

The fact is agencies and associated zero hour contracts are the norm for many and they have bred under EU watch like bacteria in a petri dish! It's been hand in glove with the EU facilitating it by means of its blatant ignorance. And yep! Right wing government(s) at home have exploited EU policy to the hilt. And New Labour were equally guilty!

And very nice of the EU to offer 'health and safety' laws when a significant percentage of employees now have to pay for their tickets out of their pockets anyhow. And the same applies to paying for high-viz-vests, hard hats, steel toe capped boots, other safety items e.g. googles, ear protectors, breathing protection, protective clothing etc. Oh and many have to in a lot of cases even have to pay for their own tools also. Utter joke and overhyped this mythical EU worker protection.

You see the anti-EU (look at the map!) working class rebellion sort of says something very profound i.e. the motivation, cause and effect, and reasoning to do so did not randomly fall out of the sky one day.


If EU law is bypassed, I fail to see how you think it will be any different when we leave. And if it’s no different, why harm the economy which will result in people losing their jobs?
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Britain's brexit crisis BBC one 9 on 22:13 - Jul 19 with 868 viewscontroversial_jack

Britain's brexit crisis BBC one 9 on 20:03 - Jul 19 by Wingstandwood

A lot of EU law is bypassed by employers, seen it myself firsthand with enforced (or get sacked) 18 hour shifts. If the EU was the employees and working classes true ally it would at the very least have tried to listen.

The fact is agencies and associated zero hour contracts are the norm for many and they have bred under EU watch like bacteria in a petri dish! It's been hand in glove with the EU facilitating it by means of its blatant ignorance. And yep! Right wing government(s) at home have exploited EU policy to the hilt. And New Labour were equally guilty!

And very nice of the EU to offer 'health and safety' laws when a significant percentage of employees now have to pay for their tickets out of their pockets anyhow. And the same applies to paying for high-viz-vests, hard hats, steel toe capped boots, other safety items e.g. googles, ear protectors, breathing protection, protective clothing etc. Oh and many have to in a lot of cases even have to pay for their own tools also. Utter joke and overhyped this mythical EU worker protection.

You see the anti-EU (look at the map!) working class rebellion sort of says something very profound i.e. the motivation, cause and effect, and reasoning to do so did not randomly fall out of the sky one day.


You are right, I have also seen it. Complain and you know where the gate is.
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Britain's brexit crisis BBC one 9 on 22:49 - Jul 19 with 844 viewsWingstandwood

Britain's brexit crisis BBC one 9 on 22:13 - Jul 19 by controversial_jack

You are right, I have also seen it. Complain and you know where the gate is.


You can always tell if someone has genuinely experienced or witnessed the worst of appalling modern employment conditions..... Because?..... He/she does not deny them, does not condone them, does not rubbish individuals stating the truth about them and has genuine empathy and sympathy for the young and upcoming generations.

Many will never have the same chance of job security and decent working conditions experienced by generations before. Moral decency and standards that were once upon a time the norm, expected and taken for granted. What EU/U.K governments(s) have been responsible for is a disgrace. Welcome to modern day U.K.... i.e. zero hour contract, food bank and agency employer central.
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Britain's brexit crisis BBC one 9 on 00:13 - Jul 20 with 793 viewsBytholWyn

So, let's see if I've understood this correctly. The rules and regulations around zero hours contracts etc. are inadequate. Yup, I'm in agreement there. So, the logical conclusion is that either EU directives have not been implemented or regulated properly by the UK authorities, or that the regulations are inadequate - in which case, we need more intervention from Europe not less. Yet, Johnson et al have made it perfectly clear that one of the perceived dividends of a hard Brexit is the opportunity to reduce, not enhance current regulatory control. This is hardly surprising given this is central to hard-right neo-liberal economic philosophy in the UK and the US alike.

So, if you're genuinely concerned about inadequate regulation around the rights of employees you must be in favour not only of remaining in the EU, but for that institution to extend it's existing superior regulations (as compared to the US) further.

This is basic logical thinking. Is it really too much to expect Brexiteers to be capable of this? That's a rhetorical question...
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Britain's brexit crisis BBC one 9 on 05:30 - Jul 20 with 763 viewsAnotherJohn

Britain's brexit crisis BBC one 9 on 16:43 - Jul 19 by Wingstandwood

"EU legislation, which supposedly leads to better working conditions has not saved one job and is riddled with opt-outs for employers to largely ignore any perceived benefits they bring to workers. But it is making zero-hour contracts and agency working the norm, will undermine collective bargaining and full time secure employment"...... Bob Crow General Secretary of the National Union of Rail, Maritime and Transport Workers (RMT).

I reckon he had his finger on the pulse when it came to the stark reality of what his own members were actually experiencing! Unlike Thatcherite-minded apologists who have zero empathy or concern for the youngsters/working class cos their love of the EU puts em in a parallel universe.

Aye like me you do not believe the EU-Nirvana sh1te, I have witnessed the reality of it up close and personal... If exploitative bosses do not like a law or ruling they either ignore it completely, or sack a zero hour contract worker and replace a.s.a.p with another zero hour contract worker. A case of replace with a more submissive individual terrified to stick up for his-herself for fear of an immediate sacking courtesy of agency employment the EU has been a force-multiplier of.


Indeed so, and the acid test comes when countries locked into the Euro seek to use Keynesian policies to try to escape austerity. The EU directives that supposedly guarantee the social protections posted above, when combined with EU Stability and Growth Pact policies, didn't help the Greeks or lower the staggeringly-high youth unemployment in the southern countries. Greeks in particular roll their eyes in disbelief if you try to tell them that the EU guarantees comprehensive public healthcare for all - their healthcare system was ravaged by the Troika.
[Post edited 20 Jul 6:23]
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Britain's brexit crisis BBC one 9 on 09:17 - Jul 20 with 712 viewsmajorraglan

Britain's brexit crisis BBC one 9 on 00:13 - Jul 20 by BytholWyn

So, let's see if I've understood this correctly. The rules and regulations around zero hours contracts etc. are inadequate. Yup, I'm in agreement there. So, the logical conclusion is that either EU directives have not been implemented or regulated properly by the UK authorities, or that the regulations are inadequate - in which case, we need more intervention from Europe not less. Yet, Johnson et al have made it perfectly clear that one of the perceived dividends of a hard Brexit is the opportunity to reduce, not enhance current regulatory control. This is hardly surprising given this is central to hard-right neo-liberal economic philosophy in the UK and the US alike.

So, if you're genuinely concerned about inadequate regulation around the rights of employees you must be in favour not only of remaining in the EU, but for that institution to extend it's existing superior regulations (as compared to the US) further.

This is basic logical thinking. Is it really too much to expect Brexiteers to be capable of this? That's a rhetorical question...


German workers enjoy significantly greater protections and rights than British workers and they are members of the EU!

There are definitely issues where local labour is being replaced by “migrant” workers frequently on lower wages and zero hours contracts, however all the ills cannot be laid at the door of the EU as you have said and the U.K. government is responsible for a lot of the issues.
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Britain's brexit crisis BBC one 9 on 09:24 - Jul 20 with 704 viewstrinityann

Britain's brexit crisis BBC one 9 on 09:17 - Jul 20 by majorraglan

German workers enjoy significantly greater protections and rights than British workers and they are members of the EU!

There are definitely issues where local labour is being replaced by “migrant” workers frequently on lower wages and zero hours contracts, however all the ills cannot be laid at the door of the EU as you have said and the U.K. government is responsible for a lot of the issues.


This is happening under EU watch, so what would change if we stay in EU. Brexit has the perception of change, but whether that happens is another thing.
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Britain's brexit crisis BBC one 9 on 09:40 - Jul 20 with 686 viewsBytholWyn

Britain's brexit crisis BBC one 9 on 09:24 - Jul 20 by trinityann

This is happening under EU watch, so what would change if we stay in EU. Brexit has the perception of change, but whether that happens is another thing.


Do you seriously think that Brexit will lead to a change for the better? You must be staggeringly naive if that's the case. This is a hard-right project from start to finish. Only a moron would interpret the involvement of the likes of JRM, Johnson, Farage et al differently.
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Britain's brexit crisis BBC one 9 on 14:49 - Jul 20 with 620 viewsHighjack

Britain's brexit crisis BBC one 9 on 20:10 - Jul 19 by londonlisa2001

If EU law is bypassed, I fail to see how you think it will be any different when we leave. And if it’s no different, why harm the economy which will result in people losing their jobs?


If everyone loses their jobs they won't be able to afford to buy cheap shit. So all the factories in China will have to close and the planet will be saved.

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
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Britain's brexit crisis BBC one 9 on 18:22 - Jul 20 with 576 viewsGlyn1

This is a serious question from me, but how have "they made an example of us"?

They've asked us what deal we want, and so far we haven't got a clue.

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Britain's brexit crisis BBC one 9 on 18:26 - Jul 20 with 572 viewsexiledclaseboy

Britain's brexit crisis BBC one 9 on 18:22 - Jul 20 by Glyn1

This is a serious question from me, but how have "they made an example of us"?

They've asked us what deal we want, and so far we haven't got a clue.


That’s not strictly true. We told them what we wanted and they gave us the lot. Then we told them it wasn’t good enough. The failures are all at our end. Tory end specifically. Anyone claiming otherwise is lying.

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Britain's brexit crisis BBC one 9 on 18:42 - Jul 20 with 551 viewslonglostjack

I recorded the programme and watched it this afternoon. Timmermans’ realisation that Davis didn’t have a plan and was showboating elsewhere was so depressing. Then there was Raab complaining that Maybot had been deliberately humiliated and talking about an imaginary win-win. Another low point. Incompetent is not the word.
[Post edited 20 Jul 18:43]

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Britain's brexit crisis BBC one 9 on 20:00 - Jul 20 with 519 viewswaynekerr55

I enjoyed listening to Dominic Grieve earlier; one of the few sensible Tories amongst a cabal of fùcking idiots

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Britain's brexit crisis BBC one 9 on 12:07 - Jul 21 with 436 viewsWarwickHunt

Britain's brexit crisis BBC one 9 on 18:42 - Jul 20 by longlostjack

I recorded the programme and watched it this afternoon. Timmermans’ realisation that Davis didn’t have a plan and was showboating elsewhere was so depressing. Then there was Raab complaining that Maybot had been deliberately humiliated and talking about an imaginary win-win. Another low point. Incompetent is not the word.
[Post edited 20 Jul 18:43]


Davis has a reputation for being lazy, unprepared and a bit dim.

That programme confirmed it.
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Britain's brexit crisis BBC one 9 on 12:13 - Jul 21 with 429 viewsexiledclaseboy

Britain's brexit crisis BBC one 9 on 12:07 - Jul 21 by WarwickHunt

Davis has a reputation for being lazy, unprepared and a bit dim.

That programme confirmed it.


More than a bit dim. He’s stupid. Very stupid.

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Britain's brexit crisis BBC one 9 on 14:15 - Jul 21 with 382 viewshuwrichards57

Britain's brexit crisis BBC one 9 on 12:13 - Jul 21 by exiledclaseboy

More than a bit dim. He’s stupid. Very stupid.


Is he? Always thought he comes across pretty well on everything bar Brexit (though no one who advocated it is looking too sharp now). But on issues like civil liberties, recently the loan charge and the Syrian issue he seems far more cultured than many.
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Britain's brexit crisis BBC one 9 on 14:41 - Jul 21 with 356 viewsGlyn1

Britain's brexit crisis BBC one 9 on 14:15 - Jul 21 by huwrichards57

Is he? Always thought he comes across pretty well on everything bar Brexit (though no one who advocated it is looking too sharp now). But on issues like civil liberties, recently the loan charge and the Syrian issue he seems far more cultured than many.


I don't like him but I have to agree with you. On Question Time and elsewhere he's always seemed to me to be an articulate, old school Tory.

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