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Does Brexit die tonight? 11:59 - Sep 3 with 12278 viewswestwalesed

When this bill passes, which I expect it to, my understanding is that the EU theoretically can propose a different extension to the proposed January 31st, 2020 date currently in the bill.

The bill states that the PM has to accept that date, and that Parliament has two days to either accept or reject it (thereby putting any future extension date in the hands of Parliament as opposed to the PM). Given that we have a remain leaning parliament currently it's hard tp see how any proposed date would be rejected.

PM Johnson would then seek an election as he has stated, but now that it is looking as if the opposition parties may not get to the two-thirds of MPs required to trigger it, there will be no election at all. What then?

With a Govt that has to accept any date given and Parliament refusing to give him an opportunity to change the make up of the Commons, is this the day that Brexit dies?

Is it revoking A50 by the back door?

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Does Brexit die tonight? on 14:40 - Sep 9 with 467 viewsA_Fans_Dad

Does Brexit die tonight? on 22:09 - Sep 8 by Catullus

The state pension, really? How it is funded is irrelevant. You have to pay into the system to be entitled to it. That you are paying for the already retired to have their pensions doesn't matter, if you don't pay in, you don't get it, simple.

Right, SherpaJacob, you claim that Wales could be self sufficient for water, electricity and food. So tell me, how much would we need to spend on infrastructure to gain self sufficiency? Who would lend us the money? Bearing in mind we'd start from a position of roughly 100 billion in debt the first year and tax receipts that don't cover much more than the NHS, schools and policing.
Wales could be indepedent one day but that day is a long way off and first we need to get Westminster to stump up money to invest in our infrastructure and economy. Scotland gets a far better settlement than us, we need better political representatives so we can can at least try and squeeze more money out of Westminster.
Whatever happens, the Senedd needs to spend money elsewhere besides the SE corner.

Question Sherpajacob, how much food do we grow in Wales? How much actual crop growing land is there? I'll save you the bother, mostly. We only grow around 20% of the food we eat in Wales because most farmland is not suitable for growing crops, it is mostly used as grazing land. Dairy farming is in hard times with milk production barely covering it's own costs. We have approx 86000 acres of horticultural land. That is roughly half compared to the 60's possibly partly because of the population increase and new houses being built on former farmland.

The last few pages of this thread are really depressing and demonstrate amply why this country is screwed for decades to come. Whatever happens with brexit, many people are long past proper debate. They want to argue, ridicule, dismiss and insult those they disagree with.
Take the points about people of a certain age.....those people mostly have kids. They didn't vote for brexit to ruin their own kids futures. Most certainly they want better for their kids than they had. Are they economically inactive? It depends on which perspective you take but older people spend their money and this year it has been found that the "Bank of Mum and Dad" equates to being the 10th largest mortgage provider in the UK, helping their kids get on the property ladder, very selfish that is eh!
They have also usually paid into the system which is more than unemployed school leavers have done, more than people who earn less than the tax allowance do since the inception of working tax credits, child allowance etc. The economically inactive are not just the elderly and it's not just the elderly who are net recipients.

Someone please tell me what our options are now? None of the remainers want to admit it but we have been manouvered into a remain position by politicians who have worked with the EU. It was all over the media that MP's checked with the EU before passing the law stopping no deal. Why have our politicians turned down every single option that allows us to leave if they are not working towards remain? They won't have another referendum because apart from it not solving anything unless we vote very strongly to remain, what if we actually voted even more strongly to leave, they don't trust the electorate to vote the way they want.
Yes Boris has taken a kicking inside Westminster yet outside that place his popularity has grown whilst Corbyn's has shrunk. Is that because to most people, no matter how they voted, brexit must be sorted and finished with, we cannot keep this nonsense going indefinitely, how harmful would that be?
There are rabid brexiteers and there are rabid remainers, neither will accept they can possibly be wrong, both tell lies and make predictions for the a future they cannot possibly know.
Worst of these (to me at least) are the WelshNats who insist leaving the EU will be disastrous but leaving the UK will make us better off. The EU gives us a net 250 million approx, Westminster gives us a net 8 BILLION approx. These Nats are both rabid leaver AND remainers who often display extreme hostility towards England, the English and the "English Government"
Brexit needs to be finished with one way or the other and soon. We need to stop arguing, stop throwing insults and find common ground, move ahead.
Whatever happens, anyone who claims to know what the future will bring (if we leave or remain) is every bit as much of a liar as Boris Johnson.
When I voted leave it was in the hope of a better future. Just like in a General Election, I made a choice and hoped for the best, what the future will bring for myself and my son, I will have to wait and see.


Catullus, very nicely summarised.
However the funding of the state pension is not totally irrelevent to being in the scheme.
When the scheme was first introduced the life expectency of a man was approx 50 years, but the pension did not start until age 70 and was means tested. Very few men lived to that age especially as millions were killed during the depression and 2 word wars.
NI wasn't introduced until 1946 and even by then a man's life expectancy was below 65. NI is percentage based, so the more you earn the more you pay, but the Pension is fixed and is the same for all if you eligible.
So those earning above average wages, of which I was one subsidised and are subsidising those on below average earnings.
It was not until the 50s that male life expentancy reached 65 and even in th 80s it was only about 70 years. That means that of those men paying in to the system many of them would never actually draw a pension and even by the 80s only half of them would get 5 or more years out of the Fund. A Fund, which the article Lisa pointed to
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/pensions/article-2787888/how-state-pension-f
calls it.
Now Lisa categorically stated "The state doesn’t build up a pot" and "No public pensions or nationalised pensions are funded. There is a nominal calculation done (eg the national insurance ‘pot’) but it’s not a pot of actual money, just a number. "
So the article she points to to demonstrate that we pay for the older generation actually states that it is a Fund, the Government calls it a Fund.
Now this fund according to Lisa has no "Pot" and yet according to the very article she points to it not only has a "pot", but the pot has a surplus.
Now that must be some kind of accounting magic to have no pot, but still have a surplus of £53Billion in 2009. Which is not surprising because all those working men were paying in since 1946 and most of them died before they got anything back.
But the surplus is now only £29Billion and the Government Actuary’s Department recently forecast that the National Insurance Fund will be exhausted by 2035-36.
Now let's go back to the "we pay for the older generation", the only reference to this statement in that article is a statement that says "Effectively, each working generation pays for the older generation above them."
No other information, no references, nothing.
So sorry I am not "knocked out" by this article in fact it calls Lisa out as all she hase done is repeat what was written on another forum and not only that the article disproves her contention that there is no pot.

Lisa mentioned the Ford Pension Fund, which was one of the most over funded schemes in the world, because most retirees collected their pension for a year or two and promptly died, leaving any Widow on half pension. The same applies to the British Steel pension, which has now been forced in to the PPF since Tata closed it due to some very serious mis selling.
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Does Brexit die tonight? on 15:07 - Sep 9 with 417 viewsHighjack

Does Brexit die tonight? on 14:20 - Sep 9 by WarwickHunt

Groo probably thinks a metaphor is an extinct creature.


He’s probably thinking of a metriacanthrosaurus.

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
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Does Brexit die tonight? on 15:08 - Sep 9 with 414 viewsHighjack

Does Brexit die tonight? on 14:40 - Sep 9 by A_Fans_Dad

Catullus, very nicely summarised.
However the funding of the state pension is not totally irrelevent to being in the scheme.
When the scheme was first introduced the life expectency of a man was approx 50 years, but the pension did not start until age 70 and was means tested. Very few men lived to that age especially as millions were killed during the depression and 2 word wars.
NI wasn't introduced until 1946 and even by then a man's life expectancy was below 65. NI is percentage based, so the more you earn the more you pay, but the Pension is fixed and is the same for all if you eligible.
So those earning above average wages, of which I was one subsidised and are subsidising those on below average earnings.
It was not until the 50s that male life expentancy reached 65 and even in th 80s it was only about 70 years. That means that of those men paying in to the system many of them would never actually draw a pension and even by the 80s only half of them would get 5 or more years out of the Fund. A Fund, which the article Lisa pointed to
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/pensions/article-2787888/how-state-pension-f
calls it.
Now Lisa categorically stated "The state doesn’t build up a pot" and "No public pensions or nationalised pensions are funded. There is a nominal calculation done (eg the national insurance ‘pot’) but it’s not a pot of actual money, just a number. "
So the article she points to to demonstrate that we pay for the older generation actually states that it is a Fund, the Government calls it a Fund.
Now this fund according to Lisa has no "Pot" and yet according to the very article she points to it not only has a "pot", but the pot has a surplus.
Now that must be some kind of accounting magic to have no pot, but still have a surplus of £53Billion in 2009. Which is not surprising because all those working men were paying in since 1946 and most of them died before they got anything back.
But the surplus is now only £29Billion and the Government Actuary’s Department recently forecast that the National Insurance Fund will be exhausted by 2035-36.
Now let's go back to the "we pay for the older generation", the only reference to this statement in that article is a statement that says "Effectively, each working generation pays for the older generation above them."
No other information, no references, nothing.
So sorry I am not "knocked out" by this article in fact it calls Lisa out as all she hase done is repeat what was written on another forum and not only that the article disproves her contention that there is no pot.

Lisa mentioned the Ford Pension Fund, which was one of the most over funded schemes in the world, because most retirees collected their pension for a year or two and promptly died, leaving any Widow on half pension. The same applies to the British Steel pension, which has now been forced in to the PPF since Tata closed it due to some very serious mis selling.


I’m starting to think she just Googles everything A fans dad.

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
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Does Brexit die tonight? on 15:19 - Sep 9 with 402 viewswestwalesed

Does Brexit die tonight? on 12:31 - Sep 9 by jackrmee

But what about the people who've changed their minds due to being lied to first time round about brexit?


And Remainers were told that there would not be an EU Army.

Aside from the racist/thicko/xenophobe/little Englander/Gammon vibe, being told that I was "lied to" also gets my wick.

It's as if to say "Oh the people are so naïve that they had no idea they were being lied to. Bless them"

EVERYONE knows that in any election you take what you are told with a gigantic piece of salt and decide accordingly. I wasn't sitting there wide eyed nodding like an automaton whenever a member of the Leave campaign spoke, hand drifting toward putting a cross in the Leave box without thinking.
[Post edited 9 Sep 15:21]

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Does Brexit die tonight? on 16:25 - Sep 9 with 342 viewsLeonWasGod

Does Brexit die tonight? on 12:26 - Sep 9 by Catullus

Really Warwick? Parliament enacted the referendum, told us it would be a once in a lifetime vote and they would honour the result. If they overturn brexit they are acting against the will of the majority (who voted) therefore breaking their promose and acting against the will of the people.
For the Parliament of the day to act against the government of the day, against the will of the people and be collaborating with a foreign political orgnisation to do so, is that not immoral and treasonous?
There are elected representatives who openly state they will do everything they can to prevent brexit, by whatever means. Jo Swinson amongst them. When Mugabe held votes but ignored the ourcome or did the opposite he was called a dictator.
Now because the losers in the referendum agree with what the politicians are doing they call it defending democracy. If this is how politicians behave, what is the point in having elections? Then, thinking ahead, what when the politicians are going against a democratic vote that you, Warwick, agreed with and had voted for, will you then think it's ok?


You make it sound so simplistic.

- The executive said it would be a once in a lifetime vote, not Parliament, the leader of which then disappeared straight after said vote.
- It was only advisory, so despite the promises there is no legal requirement to implement (actually based on the advisory nature alone, there's no moral requirement either).
- The "Parliament of the day" initiated A50, according to the "will of the people"
- They're not collaborating, they simply checked what the response would be given a certain action - it simply an open dialogue, which has been sorely lacking throughout the whole mess.
- The next parliament agreed a deal with the EU in accordance with the outcome of the referendum (which would have passed if the Tory ERGers hadn't voted against it). That whole position has now been obfuscated by people shifting goal posts and saying only a hard Brexit is a pure Brexit.
- Jo Swinson represents a constituency that voted to remain by a majority of 71.4% and represents a Party that stands on a pro-EU ticket. She's every right to campaign to stay.

The Tories are committing political suicide if they don't deliver, for sure. They'll wreck trust for a couple of generations if they don't take us out of the EU. But if they don't, it wouldn't be illegal. They've backed themselves into to a corner. Either not implement Brexit and risk being ripped a new one by Nigel Farage (that's what this is really about) or Brexit and screw the country (again).

The potential illegality would occur if Johnson breaks the law as he's hinting he will. If he behaves autocratically like that, it's the literal definition of dictator (but I doubt he will, it's all bluster).
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Does Brexit die tonight? on 16:25 - Sep 9 with 342 viewsHighjack

Does Brexit die tonight? on 15:19 - Sep 9 by westwalesed

And Remainers were told that there would not be an EU Army.

Aside from the racist/thicko/xenophobe/little Englander/Gammon vibe, being told that I was "lied to" also gets my wick.

It's as if to say "Oh the people are so naïve that they had no idea they were being lied to. Bless them"

EVERYONE knows that in any election you take what you are told with a gigantic piece of salt and decide accordingly. I wasn't sitting there wide eyed nodding like an automaton whenever a member of the Leave campaign spoke, hand drifting toward putting a cross in the Leave box without thinking.
[Post edited 9 Sep 15:21]


I remember wondering during the referendum campaign whether both sides were deliberately trying to lose given the amount of unfettered bullish!t flying around.

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
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Does Brexit die tonight? on 16:32 - Sep 9 with 339 viewslondonlisa2001

Does Brexit die tonight? on 14:40 - Sep 9 by A_Fans_Dad

Catullus, very nicely summarised.
However the funding of the state pension is not totally irrelevent to being in the scheme.
When the scheme was first introduced the life expectency of a man was approx 50 years, but the pension did not start until age 70 and was means tested. Very few men lived to that age especially as millions were killed during the depression and 2 word wars.
NI wasn't introduced until 1946 and even by then a man's life expectancy was below 65. NI is percentage based, so the more you earn the more you pay, but the Pension is fixed and is the same for all if you eligible.
So those earning above average wages, of which I was one subsidised and are subsidising those on below average earnings.
It was not until the 50s that male life expentancy reached 65 and even in th 80s it was only about 70 years. That means that of those men paying in to the system many of them would never actually draw a pension and even by the 80s only half of them would get 5 or more years out of the Fund. A Fund, which the article Lisa pointed to
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/pensions/article-2787888/how-state-pension-f
calls it.
Now Lisa categorically stated "The state doesn’t build up a pot" and "No public pensions or nationalised pensions are funded. There is a nominal calculation done (eg the national insurance ‘pot’) but it’s not a pot of actual money, just a number. "
So the article she points to to demonstrate that we pay for the older generation actually states that it is a Fund, the Government calls it a Fund.
Now this fund according to Lisa has no "Pot" and yet according to the very article she points to it not only has a "pot", but the pot has a surplus.
Now that must be some kind of accounting magic to have no pot, but still have a surplus of £53Billion in 2009. Which is not surprising because all those working men were paying in since 1946 and most of them died before they got anything back.
But the surplus is now only £29Billion and the Government Actuary’s Department recently forecast that the National Insurance Fund will be exhausted by 2035-36.
Now let's go back to the "we pay for the older generation", the only reference to this statement in that article is a statement that says "Effectively, each working generation pays for the older generation above them."
No other information, no references, nothing.
So sorry I am not "knocked out" by this article in fact it calls Lisa out as all she hase done is repeat what was written on another forum and not only that the article disproves her contention that there is no pot.

Lisa mentioned the Ford Pension Fund, which was one of the most over funded schemes in the world, because most retirees collected their pension for a year or two and promptly died, leaving any Widow on half pension. The same applies to the British Steel pension, which has now been forced in to the PPF since Tata closed it due to some very serious mis selling.


The article actually states:

“While fund exhaustion may be of little economic significance (it is an accounting curio rather than a real fund), it will be a symbolic event, indicating that the new state pension is unsustainable.”

See the bit where it says “IT IS AN ACCOUNTING CURIO RATHER THAN A REAL FUND”. what do you think that means? Do you think it means you are right that there’s an actual pot of money or I am right when I said it’s a nominal calculation done, there’s no actual pot.

Take your time.

You can be knocked out or not knocked out. I don’t care. I have no idea what other forum you are talking about. I’m finding the thought if you sitting there sniggering because you think you’ve caught me out yet missing the sentence above in the article you are quoting to be fairly hilarious to be honest. You have made yourself look even sillier than before.
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Does Brexit die tonight? on 16:37 - Sep 9 with 325 viewslondonlisa2001

Does Brexit die tonight? on 13:00 - Sep 9 by Catullus

OK, so you think that knowing a 35000 ft drop is almost certainly 100% suicide is the same as predicting the future of brexit, whether leaving or remaining? Throwing yourself out of a plane at 35000 feet gives less than 2minutes of future, with brexit we are talking decades, can you tell me what the world will be like in 10 years whether leave or remain?
Now the EU is is biggest trading partner at 46% but we still do 54% trade with the rest of the world and who wants to cut ourselves off from trading with the EU? No one with any sense. I'm not backing a no deal exit as the only option and even if we did, we could still trade with the EU. Making out that brexit means never trading with the EU again is disingenuous at best.


Brexit is the economic equivalent of throwing yourself from a plane at 35,000 ft. It’s a metaphor for nothing being absolutely certain, details being variable, but the end result being entirely predictable. Wait and see what’s in Yellowhammer (if they manage to get it released) if you don’t believe me.

No one has said brexit means never trading with the EU. But if we want a reasonable trade deal we will have to agree to the contents of the withdrawal agreement, even after the fact.

For the 100th time...
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Does Brexit die tonight? on 16:39 - Sep 9 with 323 viewslondonlisa2001

Does Brexit die tonight? on 14:09 - Sep 9 by Groo

Jesus Christ, I've read everything now. Jumping from a plane is a comparison to Brexit.

Project fear eh! in full swing.

Do all those independent Countries know they're falling?


Oh dear God.
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Does Brexit die tonight? on 16:40 - Sep 9 with 320 viewsGroo

Does Brexit die tonight? on 14:13 - Sep 9 by waynekerr55

It's not a like for like comparison though, it's a metaphor to illustrate what it's like.

It's not project fear, it's project truth. The economy will shrink, there will be border checks and there will be disruption. How much, we don't know.


I know what a metaphor is and that as a metaphor of Brexit is completely absurd.

Jumping from a plane has one outcome, a bleak dark outcome, death.

Well I suppose for the remainers Project Fear, it is an apt metaphor, in the real world its complete rubbish and an way over the top.

Will there be disruption and a shock to the system, of course there will. Will it be the death of Britain in the long term, no it won't.

Will Britain be better off in the long term, that's the question where people who want Brexit and the remainers differ in view.

Groo does what Groo does best

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Does Brexit die tonight? on 16:43 - Sep 9 with 315 viewsoh_tommy_tommy

Does Brexit die tonight? on 16:40 - Sep 9 by Groo

I know what a metaphor is and that as a metaphor of Brexit is completely absurd.

Jumping from a plane has one outcome, a bleak dark outcome, death.

Well I suppose for the remainers Project Fear, it is an apt metaphor, in the real world its complete rubbish and an way over the top.

Will there be disruption and a shock to the system, of course there will. Will it be the death of Britain in the long term, no it won't.

Will Britain be better off in the long term, that's the question where people who want Brexit and the remainers differ in view.


Don’t you live abroad ?

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Does Brexit die tonight? on 17:09 - Sep 9 with 288 viewsEbo

Does Brexit die tonight? on 15:19 - Sep 9 by westwalesed

And Remainers were told that there would not be an EU Army.

Aside from the racist/thicko/xenophobe/little Englander/Gammon vibe, being told that I was "lied to" also gets my wick.

It's as if to say "Oh the people are so naïve that they had no idea they were being lied to. Bless them"

EVERYONE knows that in any election you take what you are told with a gigantic piece of salt and decide accordingly. I wasn't sitting there wide eyed nodding like an automaton whenever a member of the Leave campaign spoke, hand drifting toward putting a cross in the Leave box without thinking.
[Post edited 9 Sep 15:21]


Don't lie.

Thank you, goodnight and bollocks
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Does Brexit die tonight? on 17:43 - Sep 9 with 260 viewsWarwickHunt

Does Brexit die tonight? on 16:32 - Sep 9 by londonlisa2001

The article actually states:

“While fund exhaustion may be of little economic significance (it is an accounting curio rather than a real fund), it will be a symbolic event, indicating that the new state pension is unsustainable.”

See the bit where it says “IT IS AN ACCOUNTING CURIO RATHER THAN A REAL FUND”. what do you think that means? Do you think it means you are right that there’s an actual pot of money or I am right when I said it’s a nominal calculation done, there’s no actual pot.

Take your time.

You can be knocked out or not knocked out. I don’t care. I have no idea what other forum you are talking about. I’m finding the thought if you sitting there sniggering because you think you’ve caught me out yet missing the sentence above in the article you are quoting to be fairly hilarious to be honest. You have made yourself look even sillier than before.




Edit: Jango and Groo have competition...
[Post edited 9 Sep 17:43]
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Does Brexit die tonight? on 17:44 - Sep 9 with 258 viewsWarwickHunt

Does Brexit die tonight? on 16:43 - Sep 9 by oh_tommy_tommy

Don’t you live abroad ?


Canada minus...
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Does Brexit die tonight? on 17:47 - Sep 9 with 255 viewskarnataka

Does Brexit die tonight? on 16:37 - Sep 9 by londonlisa2001

Brexit is the economic equivalent of throwing yourself from a plane at 35,000 ft. It’s a metaphor for nothing being absolutely certain, details being variable, but the end result being entirely predictable. Wait and see what’s in Yellowhammer (if they manage to get it released) if you don’t believe me.

No one has said brexit means never trading with the EU. But if we want a reasonable trade deal we will have to agree to the contents of the withdrawal agreement, even after the fact.

For the 100th time...


Lisa, regarding your analogy, I came across this in an online forum and it made me laugh at first until I realised it was quite probably true:

"Leaving with a deal is akin to parachuting out of an airplane at night, with zero visibility, no knowledge of altitude, no knowledge of conditions on the ground, or if there even is a solid ground instead of the mid-Atlantic, no knowledge of airspeed, and not having proper training.

Leaving without a deal is basically the same, only without the parachute."
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Does Brexit die tonight? on 17:51 - Sep 9 with 247 viewsDarran

Does Brexit die tonight? on 16:43 - Sep 9 by oh_tommy_tommy

Don’t you live abroad ?


Ignore him he’s from Baglan.

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Does Brexit die tonight? on 18:41 - Sep 9 with 218 viewsCatullus

Does Brexit die tonight? on 16:37 - Sep 9 by londonlisa2001

Brexit is the economic equivalent of throwing yourself from a plane at 35,000 ft. It’s a metaphor for nothing being absolutely certain, details being variable, but the end result being entirely predictable. Wait and see what’s in Yellowhammer (if they manage to get it released) if you don’t believe me.

No one has said brexit means never trading with the EU. But if we want a reasonable trade deal we will have to agree to the contents of the withdrawal agreement, even after the fact.

For the 100th time...


Again Lisa, nobody can be 100% sure of the outcome of brexit, the analogy you used is what you and many remainers believe. It might be accurate OR complete nonsense. Nobody can predct where we'll be in 10 years or more. Yellowhammer, unless you know whats in it, how can you be so sure whats in it? The government has said it contains worst case scenario outcomes. It was leaked (by remainers, a Phillip Hammond supporter/colleague) to have people thinking the worst case scenario was a definite outcome. It is a prediction and parts of it will or won't be accurate.

Edited to add, you said this: I’m not sure why experts telling you to refrain from falling from 35,000 feet can be trusted, yet other experts telling you to refrain from cutting yourself off from your biggest trading market cannot?
Now isn't cutting yourself off suggesting never trading with them? Besides which, when experts are giving out advice you have to consider who the experts are, what they want and what self interest they have in you following their advice. For example, experts from solar panel companies advised people they needed solar panels on their roof because they'll save money on your bills, put money back into your pockets via selling excess to the national grid and in 10 years you'll be in clear profit. Up til today there had been over 2000 complaints to Ofgen that these experts had given bad advice. A court case is going to happen. One of the people who ran a solar panel company (who is the subject of many mis-selling complaints) liquidated his company and now advises people on how to claim for being mis-sold panels. Barclays bank are named in this as being responsible for mis-selling loans.

When it comes to experts you still have to be careful who you trust. Bojo is allegedly an expert, who trusts him?
[Post edited 9 Sep 18:53]

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
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Does Brexit die tonight? on 18:53 - Sep 9 with 210 viewslondonlisa2001

Does Brexit die tonight? on 18:41 - Sep 9 by Catullus

Again Lisa, nobody can be 100% sure of the outcome of brexit, the analogy you used is what you and many remainers believe. It might be accurate OR complete nonsense. Nobody can predct where we'll be in 10 years or more. Yellowhammer, unless you know whats in it, how can you be so sure whats in it? The government has said it contains worst case scenario outcomes. It was leaked (by remainers, a Phillip Hammond supporter/colleague) to have people thinking the worst case scenario was a definite outcome. It is a prediction and parts of it will or won't be accurate.

Edited to add, you said this: I’m not sure why experts telling you to refrain from falling from 35,000 feet can be trusted, yet other experts telling you to refrain from cutting yourself off from your biggest trading market cannot?
Now isn't cutting yourself off suggesting never trading with them? Besides which, when experts are giving out advice you have to consider who the experts are, what they want and what self interest they have in you following their advice. For example, experts from solar panel companies advised people they needed solar panels on their roof because they'll save money on your bills, put money back into your pockets via selling excess to the national grid and in 10 years you'll be in clear profit. Up til today there had been over 2000 complaints to Ofgen that these experts had given bad advice. A court case is going to happen. One of the people who ran a solar panel company (who is the subject of many mis-selling complaints) liquidated his company and now advises people on how to claim for being mis-sold panels. Barclays bank are named in this as being responsible for mis-selling loans.

When it comes to experts you still have to be careful who you trust. Bojo is allegedly an expert, who trusts him?
[Post edited 9 Sep 18:53]


Yellowhammer isn’t a worst case. It’s the government’s base case. ‘Likely case’ if you prefer. Gove lied when he described it as a worst case.

It was prepared by the cabinet office to attempt to work out how to mitigate against the effects of no deal.

And the predicted outcome of Brexit isn’t complete nonsense. It’s the government’s own prediction.

Look, I understand that you and many others are adopting the ‘no one knows, it could be right it could be wrong’ position as you don’t want to believe it.

Whatever. Let’s see shall we.
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Does Brexit die tonight? on 18:54 - Sep 9 with 209 viewslondonlisa2001

Does Brexit die tonight? on 17:47 - Sep 9 by karnataka

Lisa, regarding your analogy, I came across this in an online forum and it made me laugh at first until I realised it was quite probably true:

"Leaving with a deal is akin to parachuting out of an airplane at night, with zero visibility, no knowledge of altitude, no knowledge of conditions on the ground, or if there even is a solid ground instead of the mid-Atlantic, no knowledge of airspeed, and not having proper training.

Leaving without a deal is basically the same, only without the parachute."


Lol. Yes, that’s a better analogy.
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Does Brexit die tonight? on 19:00 - Sep 9 with 193 viewslondonlisa2001

Does Brexit die tonight? on 18:41 - Sep 9 by Catullus

Again Lisa, nobody can be 100% sure of the outcome of brexit, the analogy you used is what you and many remainers believe. It might be accurate OR complete nonsense. Nobody can predct where we'll be in 10 years or more. Yellowhammer, unless you know whats in it, how can you be so sure whats in it? The government has said it contains worst case scenario outcomes. It was leaked (by remainers, a Phillip Hammond supporter/colleague) to have people thinking the worst case scenario was a definite outcome. It is a prediction and parts of it will or won't be accurate.

Edited to add, you said this: I’m not sure why experts telling you to refrain from falling from 35,000 feet can be trusted, yet other experts telling you to refrain from cutting yourself off from your biggest trading market cannot?
Now isn't cutting yourself off suggesting never trading with them? Besides which, when experts are giving out advice you have to consider who the experts are, what they want and what self interest they have in you following their advice. For example, experts from solar panel companies advised people they needed solar panels on their roof because they'll save money on your bills, put money back into your pockets via selling excess to the national grid and in 10 years you'll be in clear profit. Up til today there had been over 2000 complaints to Ofgen that these experts had given bad advice. A court case is going to happen. One of the people who ran a solar panel company (who is the subject of many mis-selling complaints) liquidated his company and now advises people on how to claim for being mis-sold panels. Barclays bank are named in this as being responsible for mis-selling loans.

When it comes to experts you still have to be careful who you trust. Bojo is allegedly an expert, who trusts him?
[Post edited 9 Sep 18:53]


Sorry but what is Johnson allegedly an expert in? He’s a journalist. I’m sure that means he’s an expert in being a journalist. But nothing financial. He wasn’t even a financial journalist.
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Does Brexit die tonight? on 19:04 - Sep 9 with 185 viewsLeonWasGod

Does Brexit die tonight? on 19:00 - Sep 9 by londonlisa2001

Sorry but what is Johnson allegedly an expert in? He’s a journalist. I’m sure that means he’s an expert in being a journalist. But nothing financial. He wasn’t even a financial journalist.


Expert liar. Fact.
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Does Brexit die tonight? on 19:07 - Sep 9 with 178 viewsHighjack

Does Brexit die tonight? on 19:04 - Sep 9 by LeonWasGod

Expert liar. Fact.


If he were an expert liar people would believe him more often.

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
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Does Brexit die tonight? on 19:08 - Sep 9 with 173 viewsWingstandwood

Does Brexit die tonight? on 19:07 - Sep 9 by Highjack

If he were an expert liar people would believe him more often.


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Does Brexit die tonight? on 19:12 - Sep 9 with 165 viewsCatullus

Does Brexit die tonight? on 18:53 - Sep 9 by londonlisa2001

Yellowhammer isn’t a worst case. It’s the government’s base case. ‘Likely case’ if you prefer. Gove lied when he described it as a worst case.

It was prepared by the cabinet office to attempt to work out how to mitigate against the effects of no deal.

And the predicted outcome of Brexit isn’t complete nonsense. It’s the government’s own prediction.

Look, I understand that you and many others are adopting the ‘no one knows, it could be right it could be wrong’ position as you don’t want to believe it.

Whatever. Let’s see shall we.


It always comes back to what you believe. Gove said it was worse case scenario but you prefer to believe he was lying and Yellowhammer is a statement of fact. As for government predictions, they are always accurate, they never lie eh? What about Cameron and Osborne, the emergency budget, tax raises etc. It was all lies. All these government predictions were prepared by people who wanted us to choose remain. You validate your position by calling some politicians that you want to disagree with liars and assuming others that you agree with are telling the truth!

Bojo is allegedly an expert politician, he's been foreign minister, Mayor of London etc so should know a lot more about it than us but who believes him.

Nobody can accurately predict where the economy will be in 10 years time and anyone claiming they can is a total liar. People have been having the jitters last week because we were heading for recession but a week later those worries were dispelled when the economy grew.
You say it's what I choose to believe and yes it is but it's the same for you. You want to remain so you choose to believe the worst.

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
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Does Brexit die tonight? on 19:18 - Sep 9 with 153 viewsLeonWasGod

Does Brexit die tonight? on 19:12 - Sep 9 by Catullus

It always comes back to what you believe. Gove said it was worse case scenario but you prefer to believe he was lying and Yellowhammer is a statement of fact. As for government predictions, they are always accurate, they never lie eh? What about Cameron and Osborne, the emergency budget, tax raises etc. It was all lies. All these government predictions were prepared by people who wanted us to choose remain. You validate your position by calling some politicians that you want to disagree with liars and assuming others that you agree with are telling the truth!

Bojo is allegedly an expert politician, he's been foreign minister, Mayor of London etc so should know a lot more about it than us but who believes him.

Nobody can accurately predict where the economy will be in 10 years time and anyone claiming they can is a total liar. People have been having the jitters last week because we were heading for recession but a week later those worries were dispelled when the economy grew.
You say it's what I choose to believe and yes it is but it's the same for you. You want to remain so you choose to believe the worst.


Yellowhammer is base case. It says so on the document. The people that contributed to it have also confirmed it. Gove is lying (again).
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