| Independence march merthyr 08:15 - Sep 8 with 27792 views | CwmafanJack |
Did anyone make the trip? Great speakers eddie butler and neville southall. Thousands in attendance with thousands more not being able to make it as trains where full coming from cardiff. Also busts the myth that theres no support for independence in the south. Well done all. Annibyniaeth ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ·ó ¬ó ³ó ¿ |  |
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| Independence march merthyr on 08:55 - Sep 16 with 1450 views | perchrockjack |
But it is pumped into the same country -the United Kingdom,which is my point.
As I say, count what is "exported" the other way.
Import /Export ,to me,rightly or wrongly,infer business and/or profit.
Anyway, what you doing on here . Don't tell me you ve joined the trolling club  | |
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| Independence march merthyr on 09:06 - Sep 16 with 1428 views | Uxbridge |
| Independence march merthyr on 08:55 - Sep 16 by perchrockjack |
But it is pumped into the same country -the United Kingdom,which is my point.
As I say, count what is "exported" the other way.
Import /Export ,to me,rightly or wrongly,infer business and/or profit.
Anyway, what you doing on here . Don't tell me you ve joined the trolling club |
I was merely trying to clarify where I see the debate here. The future of this country rather matters to me as I live here! |  |
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| Independence march merthyr on 09:38 - Sep 16 with 1415 views | Catullus |
| Independence march merthyr on 17:53 - Sep 15 by johnlangy |
What is published is not the full picture as has been explained many times on this forum. The real Welsh deficit is much lower than they give us to believe.
You're correct in saying that Wales would need massive infrastructure spending. That's because there's been so little spend on Welsh infra by successive Westminster governments. And the simple truth is that that lack of spend while part of the UK would continue making it even more difficult for Wales to thrive. Billions of the 'Welsh Expenditure' which they regularly refer to is actually spent in England and that, if spent in Wales, would give the Welsh economy a massive boost. If Wales was independent that is what would happen.
As part of the UK we currently meet all the necessary EU criteria but I can't answer as to how much we may miss those criteria targets if we went Indy. Or how long it may take us to catch up.
I can't believe how many times I read Welsh people posting that we are less intelligent than English people. That's effectively what you're saying with 'I simply do not trust that Welsh politicians are capable'. Do you think that you are less intelligent than your average Englishman Catullus ? I know i'm not. But I AM certain that Welsh people are better able to run Wales.
That's because they are Welsh. |
No John, it's not that I think us Welsh less intelligent but intelligence doesn't prove capability. I'm judging the Senedd et al by what I see. On the same point, I don't think Westminster is capable either and while Bojo is definitely well educated and many insist he is very intelligent, is he capable? The real difference there is that in the UK the structure already exists, if we went indy we would have to build a whole new structure for ourselves.
I take your point about taxes, honestly I do but as I say, the maths is hard because we don't know the whole truth.
It does seem to me that if England could be so much better off by itself (which the declared figures seem to prove) then why are the government (whichever government) so keen to preserve the Union?
It's not purely a financial question though. Many of us are not just Welsh, we consider ourselves British. You can't deny that. Even then, many Welsh residents are not Welsh and in recent decades very many English people have retired here. I know a few in this area who are from London, all retired. They sold their family homes which made them cash rich and came to Wales where they bought very nice houses and pocketed large profits. An elderly lady I often bump into whilst dog walking came here 2 years back. She has no mortgage, no debts and the freedom that having a very good bank balance gives you.
Welsh nats want Wales to be run by the Welsh but I'd like to know how much of Wales is actually Welsh anymore. It's the same in England, there are many Welsh there amongst the other nationalities. This leads to an obvious question, in any referendum would the non Welsh vote for independence? How would Plaid feel about Non Welsh votes keeping us in the Union? Isn't it just lining up more arguments? And I have completely had enough of arguments. | |
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| Independence march merthyr on 20:01 - Sep 16 with 1377 views | ladyjack |
Have a happy Owain Glyndwr Day today.  |  | | |
| Independence march merthyr on 20:40 - Sep 16 with 1359 views | perchrockjack |
Andrew.
We do not debate in this land,as is evident from the posts on here. | |
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| Independence march merthyr on 23:22 - Sep 16 with 1328 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Independence march merthyr on 09:38 - Sep 16 by Catullus |
No John, it's not that I think us Welsh less intelligent but intelligence doesn't prove capability. I'm judging the Senedd et al by what I see. On the same point, I don't think Westminster is capable either and while Bojo is definitely well educated and many insist he is very intelligent, is he capable? The real difference there is that in the UK the structure already exists, if we went indy we would have to build a whole new structure for ourselves.
I take your point about taxes, honestly I do but as I say, the maths is hard because we don't know the whole truth.
It does seem to me that if England could be so much better off by itself (which the declared figures seem to prove) then why are the government (whichever government) so keen to preserve the Union?
It's not purely a financial question though. Many of us are not just Welsh, we consider ourselves British. You can't deny that. Even then, many Welsh residents are not Welsh and in recent decades very many English people have retired here. I know a few in this area who are from London, all retired. They sold their family homes which made them cash rich and came to Wales where they bought very nice houses and pocketed large profits. An elderly lady I often bump into whilst dog walking came here 2 years back. She has no mortgage, no debts and the freedom that having a very good bank balance gives you.
Welsh nats want Wales to be run by the Welsh but I'd like to know how much of Wales is actually Welsh anymore. It's the same in England, there are many Welsh there amongst the other nationalities. This leads to an obvious question, in any referendum would the non Welsh vote for independence? How would Plaid feel about Non Welsh votes keeping us in the Union? Isn't it just lining up more arguments? And I have completely had enough of arguments. |
Welsh nationalism is an inclusive civic nationalism, not an ethnic nationalism. |  |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Independence march merthyr on 13:15 - Sep 17 with 1262 views | Catullus |
| Independence march merthyr on 23:22 - Sep 16 by Kilkennyjack |
Welsh nationalism is an inclusive civic nationalism, not an ethnic nationalism. |
Having seen the amount of abuse levelled at English people, I struggle to believe that. I read comments on the WoL that should have merited a police investigation. I have seen comments on here that some would say are at least close to the mark. For supporting the Union I have been called un Welsh, traitor, Wenglish and was told if I love the UK so much to F off to Engand. I have indeed been accused of hating Wales and had more abuse because I cannot speak Welsh. | |
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| Independence march merthyr on 13:32 - Sep 17 with 1253 views | Ebo |
| Independence march merthyr on 13:15 - Sep 17 by Catullus |
Having seen the amount of abuse levelled at English people, I struggle to believe that. I read comments on the WoL that should have merited a police investigation. I have seen comments on here that some would say are at least close to the mark. For supporting the Union I have been called un Welsh, traitor, Wenglish and was told if I love the UK so much to F off to Engand. I have indeed been accused of hating Wales and had more abuse because I cannot speak Welsh. |
Which is definitely not the view or the outlook of the AUOB movement. |  |
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| Independence march merthyr on 14:30 - Sep 17 with 1222 views | ladyjack |
| Independence march merthyr on 13:15 - Sep 17 by Catullus |
Having seen the amount of abuse levelled at English people, I struggle to believe that. I read comments on the WoL that should have merited a police investigation. I have seen comments on here that some would say are at least close to the mark. For supporting the Union I have been called un Welsh, traitor, Wenglish and was told if I love the UK so much to F off to Engand. I have indeed been accused of hating Wales and had more abuse because I cannot speak Welsh. |
That is shocking Cat, where do you live ?, who has been having a go at you ?
Welsh independence supporters are nearly all to a man and woman civic nationalists, they are not ethnic nationalists, Plaid is only one party but a criticism of them is that they are too nice, a person that is not a Plaid voter and often talks politics to me will often say that Plaid will let everybody into the country no matter who they are.
You don't have to speak Welsh to be Welsh, even Leanne Wood did not speak it [not sure if that is still the case]. | | | |
| Independence march merthyr on 14:35 - Sep 17 with 1215 views | perchrockjack |
Just as well this site is viewed by few English people although those we have must be annoyed at this tirade of abuse towards England and its people.
Not for nothing do people leave Wales ,often to get away from narrow minded bigotry ,such is evidenced here.
There is no doubt England could and would prosper without Wales and Scotland and NI.
Tough to take but you are a tiny minority in a tiny country. | |
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| Independence march merthyr on 14:53 - Sep 17 with 1209 views | ladyjack |
| Independence march merthyr on 09:38 - Sep 16 by Catullus |
No John, it's not that I think us Welsh less intelligent but intelligence doesn't prove capability. I'm judging the Senedd et al by what I see. On the same point, I don't think Westminster is capable either and while Bojo is definitely well educated and many insist he is very intelligent, is he capable? The real difference there is that in the UK the structure already exists, if we went indy we would have to build a whole new structure for ourselves.
I take your point about taxes, honestly I do but as I say, the maths is hard because we don't know the whole truth.
It does seem to me that if England could be so much better off by itself (which the declared figures seem to prove) then why are the government (whichever government) so keen to preserve the Union?
It's not purely a financial question though. Many of us are not just Welsh, we consider ourselves British. You can't deny that. Even then, many Welsh residents are not Welsh and in recent decades very many English people have retired here. I know a few in this area who are from London, all retired. They sold their family homes which made them cash rich and came to Wales where they bought very nice houses and pocketed large profits. An elderly lady I often bump into whilst dog walking came here 2 years back. She has no mortgage, no debts and the freedom that having a very good bank balance gives you.
Welsh nats want Wales to be run by the Welsh but I'd like to know how much of Wales is actually Welsh anymore. It's the same in England, there are many Welsh there amongst the other nationalities. This leads to an obvious question, in any referendum would the non Welsh vote for independence? How would Plaid feel about Non Welsh votes keeping us in the Union? Isn't it just lining up more arguments? And I have completely had enough of arguments. |
Cat there are some poor AM's in Cardiff but the standard here is better than in Westminster and I said that on here ages ago, well before Mays implosion and the guy that is now in charge over there and is seen as part clown and part buffoon by many.
The English people that live next to me vote Plaid, Plaid need to attract voters from all sections of society to make headway.
Lots in Plaid have been accused of being very wishy washy, mamby pamby, middle of the road, nicey nice types in the past , but that image does not include the current leader or the last leader or the likes of McEvoy [is he still banned by Plaid ?], but things do seem to be slowly changing with more progressive types coming to the fore and even reaching the top job, so we will see if their fortunes improve or not in the coming years. | | | |
| Independence march merthyr on 14:56 - Sep 17 with 1205 views | Lohengrin |
| Independence march merthyr on 14:30 - Sep 17 by ladyjack |
That is shocking Cat, where do you live ?, who has been having a go at you ?
Welsh independence supporters are nearly all to a man and woman civic nationalists, they are not ethnic nationalists, Plaid is only one party but a criticism of them is that they are too nice, a person that is not a Plaid voter and often talks politics to me will often say that Plaid will let everybody into the country no matter who they are.
You don't have to speak Welsh to be Welsh, even Leanne Wood did not speak it [not sure if that is still the case]. |
‘Nation’derives from the Latin ‘Gentem.It literally means ‘Race.’
You seem to have it confused with clubbing together to pay for the bins to be collected. |  |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Independence march merthyr on 15:18 - Sep 17 with 1192 views | ladyjack |
I thought it ironic that Luxembourg a country that is smaller than Wales [a lot smaller] was telling the UK off yesterday. 
Wales would be better of running her own affairs than Westminster. | | | |
| Independence march merthyr on 16:06 - Sep 17 with 1158 views | Highjack |
| Independence march merthyr on 15:18 - Sep 17 by ladyjack |
I thought it ironic that Luxembourg a country that is smaller than Wales [a lot smaller] was telling the UK off yesterday.
Wales would be better of running her own affairs than Westminster. |
Luxembourg ffs. If it wasn’t for us they’d be speaking German. |  |
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| Independence march merthyr on 16:08 - Sep 17 with 1155 views | Lohengrin |
| Independence march merthyr on 16:06 - Sep 17 by Highjack |
Luxembourg ffs. If it wasn’t for us they’d be speaking German. |
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| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Independence march merthyr on 16:16 - Sep 17 with 1146 views | ladyjack |
| Independence march merthyr on 16:06 - Sep 17 by Highjack |
Luxembourg ffs. If it wasn’t for us they’d be speaking German. |
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| Independence march merthyr on 20:47 - Sep 17 with 1111 views | blaenaugwentjack |
| Independence march merthyr on 01:42 - Sep 16 by Kerouac |
Amid stiff competition this post of 'blaenaugwentjack's is the most ignorant on the thread.
He doesn't even understand what the EU is, how it works...or for that matter the functions of a nation state.
Yet he wants to break up our stable, successful nation state and create an independent Wales, then beg to be allowed to join a political union where you get to be told what to do, how it is, without any of the positives that we currently get from our present political union.
...and it would appear that many of the Independent Wales movement can't figure out the differences either.
Dangerous people.
Apples must be compared with apples. |
Sarcasm not your strong point is it? | | | |
| Independence march merthyr on 20:50 - Sep 17 with 1107 views | Catullus |
| Independence march merthyr on 14:30 - Sep 17 by ladyjack |
That is shocking Cat, where do you live ?, who has been having a go at you ?
Welsh independence supporters are nearly all to a man and woman civic nationalists, they are not ethnic nationalists, Plaid is only one party but a criticism of them is that they are too nice, a person that is not a Plaid voter and often talks politics to me will often say that Plaid will let everybody into the country no matter who they are.
You don't have to speak Welsh to be Welsh, even Leanne Wood did not speak it [not sure if that is still the case]. |
It's not in person, that has never happened in person. It was keyboard warriors, it was on Facebook but I don't use it anymore, deleted my (rarely used) account a while back. More recently it has been on the Walesonline in the comments. Comments that WoL are usually slow to remove. | |
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| Independence march merthyr on 20:55 - Sep 17 with 1097 views | Catullus |
| Independence march merthyr on 14:53 - Sep 17 by ladyjack |
Cat there are some poor AM's in Cardiff but the standard here is better than in Westminster and I said that on here ages ago, well before Mays implosion and the guy that is now in charge over there and is seen as part clown and part buffoon by many.
The English people that live next to me vote Plaid, Plaid need to attract voters from all sections of society to make headway.
Lots in Plaid have been accused of being very wishy washy, mamby pamby, middle of the road, nicey nice types in the past , but that image does not include the current leader or the last leader or the likes of McEvoy [is he still banned by Plaid ?], but things do seem to be slowly changing with more progressive types coming to the fore and even reaching the top job, so we will see if their fortunes improve or not in the coming years. |
My problem with Plaid is mostly Adam Price. If the standard of our politicians is better than Westminster (and bering in mind we get more funding per head than most of England) why is our country in such a shoddy state? The NS is in tatters, schools are poor and getting worse.....well you get the picture but cn you explain it? Or will you take the Senedd line and blame Westminster for problems in devolved areas? | |
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| Independence march merthyr on 21:06 - Sep 17 with 1088 views | Catullus |
This thing about Welsh taxes and big companies being registered in England so they go down as English. If we went indy, what makes anyone think those companies will register in Wales, esprcially if we join the EU?
Won't they (as many already do) register (for tax puposes) in low tax regimes like Luxembourg?
That is exactly the complaint people make about corporate tax, that they don't pay it in countries where they earn the profits.
I can't spek as to the politcal bias of this site https://www.taxjustice.net/2018/08/10/why-is-amazon-still-paying-little-tax-in-t but they carry a story that is synonymous with complaints around corporate tax in the UK.
So after Welsh indy, what would change? Why would Wales be better off if companies making large profits manage to pay their tax elsewhere? Wales meanwhile would still have lost the 15 billion from Westminster. | |
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| Independence march merthyr on 21:09 - Sep 17 with 1087 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Independence march merthyr on 14:56 - Sep 17 by Lohengrin |
‘Nation’derives from the Latin ‘Gentem.It literally means ‘Race.’
You seem to have it confused with clubbing together to pay for the bins to be collected. |
If you live, love, and work in Wales then you are welsh.
Inclusive
The captain of the welsh rugby team - Navidi - the son of an Iranian immigrant.
Is that not welsh enough for some ?
Progressive, outward looking, equal, and part of our modern world.
King Arthur would be very proud. | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Independence march merthyr on 21:12 - Sep 17 with 1080 views | ladyjack |
| Independence march merthyr on 20:50 - Sep 17 by Catullus |
It's not in person, that has never happened in person. It was keyboard warriors, it was on Facebook but I don't use it anymore, deleted my (rarely used) account a while back. More recently it has been on the Walesonline in the comments. Comments that WoL are usually slow to remove. |
WoL is a unionist paper and the bad comments whenever I read it nearly always come from little Englanders.
I cant comment on Facebook as I don't use it. | | | |
| Independence march merthyr on 21:18 - Sep 17 with 1072 views | ladyjack |
| Independence march merthyr on 20:55 - Sep 17 by Catullus |
My problem with Plaid is mostly Adam Price. If the standard of our politicians is better than Westminster (and bering in mind we get more funding per head than most of England) why is our country in such a shoddy state? The NS is in tatters, schools are poor and getting worse.....well you get the picture but cn you explain it? Or will you take the Senedd line and blame Westminster for problems in devolved areas? |
What problem do you have with Adam Price ? when he was in Westminster he won award after award for being the best MP type of thing.
The Senedd has limited powers, its hands are tied behind its back by Westminster, Wales only gets crumbs off the table from Westminster and nowhere near what it should get that is why it used to get money off the EU. | | | |
| Independence march merthyr on 21:20 - Sep 17 with 1068 views | Catullus |
| Independence march merthyr on 21:12 - Sep 17 by ladyjack |
WoL is a unionist paper and the bad comments whenever I read it nearly always come from little Englanders.
I cant comment on Facebook as I don't use it. |
The WoL is unionist? We may have to disagree but regardless the comments don't come from the WoL itself they come from readers who are Welsh nats. Usernames like Brython, Llynfi, Ddraiggoch, some who constantly abuse anyone who dares suggest we should stay in the Union.
These comments don't bother me but if an English person was reading them they'd have every right to believe all Welsh people really do hate the English.
Still, point out to me some unbiased sources so I can get a better view of the world? Not that I think you can, I cannot help but think that every meida source has it's own agenda, it's own political bias, depending on the owners politcal bias or business needs. | |
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| Independence march merthyr on 21:22 - Sep 17 with 1066 views | ladyjack |
| Independence march merthyr on 21:06 - Sep 17 by Catullus |
This thing about Welsh taxes and big companies being registered in England so they go down as English. If we went indy, what makes anyone think those companies will register in Wales, esprcially if we join the EU?
Won't they (as many already do) register (for tax puposes) in low tax regimes like Luxembourg?
That is exactly the complaint people make about corporate tax, that they don't pay it in countries where they earn the profits.
I can't spek as to the politcal bias of this site https://www.taxjustice.net/2018/08/10/why-is-amazon-still-paying-little-tax-in-t but they carry a story that is synonymous with complaints around corporate tax in the UK.
So after Welsh indy, what would change? Why would Wales be better off if companies making large profits manage to pay their tax elsewhere? Wales meanwhile would still have lost the 15 billion from Westminster. |
An independent Wales might become a low tax regime and attract big companies. | | | |
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