| Independence march merthyr 08:15 - Sep 8 with 27591 views | CwmafanJack |
Did anyone make the trip? Great speakers eddie butler and neville southall. Thousands in attendance with thousands more not being able to make it as trains where full coming from cardiff. Also busts the myth that theres no support for independence in the south. Well done all. Annibyniaeth ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ·ó ¬ó ³ó ¿ |  |
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| Independence march merthyr on 21:42 - Sep 17 with 1374 views | ladyjack |
| Independence march merthyr on 21:20 - Sep 17 by Catullus |
The WoL is unionist? We may have to disagree but regardless the comments don't come from the WoL itself they come from readers who are Welsh nats. Usernames like Brython, Llynfi, Ddraiggoch, some who constantly abuse anyone who dares suggest we should stay in the Union.
These comments don't bother me but if an English person was reading them they'd have every right to believe all Welsh people really do hate the English.
Still, point out to me some unbiased sources so I can get a better view of the world? Not that I think you can, I cannot help but think that every meida source has it's own agenda, it's own political bias, depending on the owners politcal bias or business needs. |
Yes a Unionist publication, first Conservative and then Labour [Marquess of Bute and then Trinity Mirror group].
The comments section by readers is shockingly extreme pro right wing and unionist so much so i've often wondered if bots operated by dark forces are in play on there. |  | | |
| Independence march merthyr on 21:59 - Sep 17 with 1353 views | Catullus |
| Independence march merthyr on 21:18 - Sep 17 by ladyjack |
What problem do you have with Adam Price ? when he was in Westminster he won award after award for being the best MP type of thing.
The Senedd has limited powers, its hands are tied behind its back by Westminster, Wales only gets crumbs off the table from Westminster and nowhere near what it should get that is why it used to get money off the EU. |
And that is a very tired pro indy line. Wales has devolved powers in health and education, they control them and they have ruined them. Wales gets 40 times more net subsidy from Westminster than from the EU. I'll remind you, Wales gets more per head than most of England, how is that crumbs? I'm sure the Northern English residents would love as much funding per head as Wales gets.
Adam Price, he's wom awards eh. Well so have many politicians yet here we are. I don't like Price for the same reasons I dislike so many politicians. His disdain for those who don't agree with him. His "do as I say" attitude. Read this, from an indy supporter https://jacothenorth.net/blog/tag/adam-price/ which more than suggests Price is a hypocrite. It's not even a right wing English rag!
If Wales joined the EU do you suppose they'd allow us to be a low tax regime, after all they are currently busy trying to centralise tax laws. If they manage to take control of the taxes, what does the Senedd do?
Now what about these unbiased sources?
Now Adam Price, | |
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| Independence march merthyr on 22:05 - Sep 17 with 1342 views | Catullus |
| Independence march merthyr on 21:42 - Sep 17 by ladyjack |
Yes a Unionist publication, first Conservative and then Labour [Marquess of Bute and then Trinity Mirror group].
The comments section by readers is shockingly extreme pro right wing and unionist so much so i've often wondered if bots operated by dark forces are in play on there. |
Hmmm, strange then that it's spent so many column inches bigging up Welsh indepedence but very few praising the Union.
Now I've been waiting for that last line to be used. Yes there are right wing comments but shockingly extreme comments....no not as many as the pro indy mob, yes there are pro unionist comments. However it doesn't take away from the abuse hurled around by Welsh nats on there.
I very rarely hurl abuse yet I have recieved it many times.
Again, what are these unbiased sources I should read? | |
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| Independence march merthyr on 22:12 - Sep 17 with 1339 views | LeonWasGod |
| Independence march merthyr on 20:55 - Sep 17 by Catullus |
My problem with Plaid is mostly Adam Price. If the standard of our politicians is better than Westminster (and bering in mind we get more funding per head than most of England) why is our country in such a shoddy state? The NS is in tatters, schools are poor and getting worse.....well you get the picture but cn you explain it? Or will you take the Senedd line and blame Westminster for problems in devolved areas? |
It’s not unique to Wales. Most areas of the UK get more from the public purse than they put in. The South East and (probably) Home Counties subsidise everyone else. Largely because the focus has been on growing the S.E. and the high population density there also allows for economies of scale. You always need more per head to deliver services in highly rural areas.
I’ve no idea what the answer is for schools. The rural element will again be a factor in some areas and council cuts have had a really bad impact in Swansea, so austerity (Westminster politics) has bitten hard. But it’s also not straightforward as some of the Welsh language comps do amazingly well despite receiving no extra funds.
It’s also worth noting there’s a schools crisis in England now as they’ve also been whacked by austerity. Some have had to go down to 4 day weeks to cope with the budget cuts. Wales gets a lot right given the pressures on budgets in fairness. |  | | |
| Independence march merthyr on 22:28 - Sep 17 with 1328 views | ladyjack |
| Independence march merthyr on 21:59 - Sep 17 by Catullus |
And that is a very tired pro indy line. Wales has devolved powers in health and education, they control them and they have ruined them. Wales gets 40 times more net subsidy from Westminster than from the EU. I'll remind you, Wales gets more per head than most of England, how is that crumbs? I'm sure the Northern English residents would love as much funding per head as Wales gets.
Adam Price, he's wom awards eh. Well so have many politicians yet here we are. I don't like Price for the same reasons I dislike so many politicians. His disdain for those who don't agree with him. His "do as I say" attitude. Read this, from an indy supporter https://jacothenorth.net/blog/tag/adam-price/ which more than suggests Price is a hypocrite. It's not even a right wing English rag!
If Wales joined the EU do you suppose they'd allow us to be a low tax regime, after all they are currently busy trying to centralise tax laws. If they manage to take control of the taxes, what does the Senedd do?
Now what about these unbiased sources?
Now Adam Price, |
A properly functioning sovereign nation will divert funds to areas of that nation that need it at the expense of areas of the nation that don't need it so much, Westminster's token attempts in this field failed as parts of Wales had to be subsidised by the EU .
Adam Price won loads of awards for being an MP, he was the best MP in Westminster in lots of peoples eyes and he now operates in the Senedd.
Jaco is a right winger, Price is a left winger, Jaco is always attacking Plaid and its members for being socialists, using your language its a right wing Welsh rag.
Luxembourg is in the EU, so is Ireland and those countries have low tax advantages/low corporation tax. [Post edited 17 Sep 2019 23:20]
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| Independence march merthyr on 22:35 - Sep 17 with 1321 views | Catullus |
| Independence march merthyr on 22:12 - Sep 17 by LeonWasGod |
It’s not unique to Wales. Most areas of the UK get more from the public purse than they put in. The South East and (probably) Home Counties subsidise everyone else. Largely because the focus has been on growing the S.E. and the high population density there also allows for economies of scale. You always need more per head to deliver services in highly rural areas.
I’ve no idea what the answer is for schools. The rural element will again be a factor in some areas and council cuts have had a really bad impact in Swansea, so austerity (Westminster politics) has bitten hard. But it’s also not straightforward as some of the Welsh language comps do amazingly well despite receiving no extra funds.
It’s also worth noting there’s a schools crisis in England now as they’ve also been whacked by austerity. Some have had to go down to 4 day weeks to cope with the budget cuts. Wales gets a lot right given the pressures on budgets in fairness. |
My sons school has made lots of cuts this last year and the new curriciulum looks a disaster in the making.
Personally speaking I have been waiting for a hip replacement. In England I would have had the operation within 3 months of going on the list. Here in Wales I was almost 2 years in and really struggling, the long wait resulted in other health problems that further delayed the operation. I was given March 2nd last as a firm date but then another health issue caused delay. Now I am over 3 years from the date I went on the list and my general health and well being have declined. When I first went on the list they told me to expect a 12 month wait. 12 months here when it wasn't 3 in England?
The point about funding was that Wales gets more per head than most of England, not that we get more than we put in. I would also suggest that there are more "highly rural" areas in England than Wales and we get more per head than all of them. Only the London region gets more per head than Wales. | |
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| Independence march merthyr on 22:53 - Sep 17 with 1316 views | ladyjack |
| Independence march merthyr on 22:05 - Sep 17 by Catullus |
Hmmm, strange then that it's spent so many column inches bigging up Welsh indepedence but very few praising the Union.
Now I've been waiting for that last line to be used. Yes there are right wing comments but shockingly extreme comments....no not as many as the pro indy mob, yes there are pro unionist comments. However it doesn't take away from the abuse hurled around by Welsh nats on there.
I very rarely hurl abuse yet I have recieved it many times.
Again, what are these unbiased sources I should read? |
If there is a geopolitical spat try a news outlet of a third party.
Try blogs of individuals that are writing in a personal capacity and not for money.
Try tweets of interesting individuals.
Try award winning journalists, see what the likes of Robert Fisk and John Pilger are saying, check out al Jazeera news and vice news for a possible different slant on English outlets.
Check out overseas online English language newspapers for their take on events compared to the Western Mail, Sun, Daily Mail, Times etc. | | | |
| Independence march merthyr on 22:57 - Sep 17 with 1310 views | ladyjack |
| Independence march merthyr on 22:35 - Sep 17 by Catullus |
My sons school has made lots of cuts this last year and the new curriciulum looks a disaster in the making.
Personally speaking I have been waiting for a hip replacement. In England I would have had the operation within 3 months of going on the list. Here in Wales I was almost 2 years in and really struggling, the long wait resulted in other health problems that further delayed the operation. I was given March 2nd last as a firm date but then another health issue caused delay. Now I am over 3 years from the date I went on the list and my general health and well being have declined. When I first went on the list they told me to expect a 12 month wait. 12 months here when it wasn't 3 in England?
The point about funding was that Wales gets more per head than most of England, not that we get more than we put in. I would also suggest that there are more "highly rural" areas in England than Wales and we get more per head than all of them. Only the London region gets more per head than Wales. |
There are lots of old people in Wales that need treatment. | | | |
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| Independence march merthyr on 23:10 - Sep 17 with 1299 views | BytholWyn |
| Independence march merthyr on 22:35 - Sep 17 by Catullus |
My sons school has made lots of cuts this last year and the new curriciulum looks a disaster in the making.
Personally speaking I have been waiting for a hip replacement. In England I would have had the operation within 3 months of going on the list. Here in Wales I was almost 2 years in and really struggling, the long wait resulted in other health problems that further delayed the operation. I was given March 2nd last as a firm date but then another health issue caused delay. Now I am over 3 years from the date I went on the list and my general health and well being have declined. When I first went on the list they told me to expect a 12 month wait. 12 months here when it wasn't 3 in England?
The point about funding was that Wales gets more per head than most of England, not that we get more than we put in. I would also suggest that there are more "highly rural" areas in England than Wales and we get more per head than all of them. Only the London region gets more per head than Wales. |
Some very dodgy statements there. Based on a needs formula Wales is under-funded - so I have no idea where you get the idea from that "Wales gets more per head than most of England". Expenditure in England isn't equal, so poorer regions, such as the North-East, will receive far more per head in NHS expenditure, than the more affluent ones. The idea that we're getting a good deal from Westminster (especially when you factor in expenditure in non-devolved areas) is laughable.
The problem for us in Wales is that we're caught in a dependency trap. We are being denied the sort of investment, especially in infrastructure, that would be a game changer for the Welsh economy. This would have long-term knock-on benefits in terms of health and social care expenditure.
For as long as we are willing to accept peanuts from Westminster we will be trapped in the current vicious circle of an under-performing economy and all the social ills that come with that. The one thing that will make Westminster pay attention is if there's a credible threat of Wales becoming independent. Dic Sion Dafyddery gets the contempt it deserves. |  | | |
| Independence march merthyr on 23:18 - Sep 17 with 1295 views | ladyjack |
| Independence march merthyr on 23:10 - Sep 17 by BytholWyn |
Some very dodgy statements there. Based on a needs formula Wales is under-funded - so I have no idea where you get the idea from that "Wales gets more per head than most of England". Expenditure in England isn't equal, so poorer regions, such as the North-East, will receive far more per head in NHS expenditure, than the more affluent ones. The idea that we're getting a good deal from Westminster (especially when you factor in expenditure in non-devolved areas) is laughable.
The problem for us in Wales is that we're caught in a dependency trap. We are being denied the sort of investment, especially in infrastructure, that would be a game changer for the Welsh economy. This would have long-term knock-on benefits in terms of health and social care expenditure.
For as long as we are willing to accept peanuts from Westminster we will be trapped in the current vicious circle of an under-performing economy and all the social ills that come with that. The one thing that will make Westminster pay attention is if there's a credible threat of Wales becoming independent. Dic Sion Dafyddery gets the contempt it deserves. |
Good post. | | | |
| Independence march merthyr on 00:31 - Sep 18 with 1260 views | Ebo |
| Independence march merthyr on 21:59 - Sep 17 by Catullus |
And that is a very tired pro indy line. Wales has devolved powers in health and education, they control them and they have ruined them. Wales gets 40 times more net subsidy from Westminster than from the EU. I'll remind you, Wales gets more per head than most of England, how is that crumbs? I'm sure the Northern English residents would love as much funding per head as Wales gets.
Adam Price, he's wom awards eh. Well so have many politicians yet here we are. I don't like Price for the same reasons I dislike so many politicians. His disdain for those who don't agree with him. His "do as I say" attitude. Read this, from an indy supporter https://jacothenorth.net/blog/tag/adam-price/ which more than suggests Price is a hypocrite. It's not even a right wing English rag!
If Wales joined the EU do you suppose they'd allow us to be a low tax regime, after all they are currently busy trying to centralise tax laws. If they manage to take control of the taxes, what does the Senedd do?
Now what about these unbiased sources?
Now Adam Price, |
I wouldn't believe that fellas radio. He got exposed on twitter quite recently and had a very public cry w ank about it. (Jack of the North that is). He calls himself a welsh 'think tank' or something. Well did until he changed his bio. [Post edited 18 Sep 2019 0:33]
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| Independence march merthyr on 00:34 - Sep 18 with 1258 views | Ebo |
I have to say though this thread has been well balanced and bereft (almost) of the churlishness of the infamous Brexit thread.
It's not taboo to talk about it anymore, it's in the mainstream and that can only be healthy. | |
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| Independence march merthyr on 07:00 - Sep 18 with 1193 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| Independence march merthyr on 00:34 - Sep 18 by Ebo |
I have to say though this thread has been well balanced and bereft (almost) of the churlishness of the infamous Brexit thread.
It's not taboo to talk about it anymore, it's in the mainstream and that can only be healthy. |
You were a right c*nt to me for expressing my opinion though. |  |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| Independence march merthyr on 09:28 - Sep 18 with 1167 views | Ebo |
| Independence march merthyr on 07:00 - Sep 18 by Brynmill_Jack |
You were a right c*nt to me for expressing my opinion though. |
And well merited too, as you spouted utter rubbish without even reading about welsh independence.
If you want to express an opinion then please read up about the subject matter first. [Post edited 18 Sep 2019 11:12]
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| Independence march merthyr on 09:38 - Sep 18 with 1161 views | Catullus |
Ladyjack, the other sources, none of them will be unbiased. They will all give opinions from their point of view. Individuals are just as biased as organisations.
This soveriegn state dispensing funds where they are needed, made me laugh that. The Senedd has hardly been doing that and again, if Wales is inside the EU Wales won't be entirely sovereign.
Face it, the majority of opinion is still currently against Weslh indy and any person who advocates going indy is not going to be unbiased. The truth of that is, as it always is, that if we want to believe something we will also believe it to be fair and honest, unbiased and truthful.
Besides which, apart from having spurts of activity on here I don't use social media. I have no facebook, twitter, instagram or any other social media account. I don't regularly use other forums though I do occassionally post a comment on WoL.
All things considered, there are usually better things to do like walk the dog, read a book, spend time with my son or daydream about being a watermelon! | |
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| Independence march merthyr on 12:49 - Sep 18 with 1122 views | ladyjack |
| Independence march merthyr on 09:38 - Sep 18 by Catullus |
Ladyjack, the other sources, none of them will be unbiased. They will all give opinions from their point of view. Individuals are just as biased as organisations.
This soveriegn state dispensing funds where they are needed, made me laugh that. The Senedd has hardly been doing that and again, if Wales is inside the EU Wales won't be entirely sovereign.
Face it, the majority of opinion is still currently against Weslh indy and any person who advocates going indy is not going to be unbiased. The truth of that is, as it always is, that if we want to believe something we will also believe it to be fair and honest, unbiased and truthful.
Besides which, apart from having spurts of activity on here I don't use social media. I have no facebook, twitter, instagram or any other social media account. I don't regularly use other forums though I do occassionally post a comment on WoL.
All things considered, there are usually better things to do like walk the dog, read a book, spend time with my son or daydream about being a watermelon! |
With respect that is absolute rubbish, those sources are as good as you will get if events don't involve them, i've given you award winning names and platforms, you just need to choose when to use them.
As regards you using Jaco as a source, you clearly don't know his background ???, as a source of investigating certain topics that do not involve politics he is good but as regards politics and people with different political beliefs to him forget it as the old jaco presents itself.
The UK is the sovereign state not Wales and the UK is currently in the EU, are you saying the UK is not a sovereign state as we speak ??
People that advocate Welsh independence are no more biased than people that advocate maintaining the union or anyone else.
I am not on Facebook, Twitter or Instagram either.
You seem to have made your mind up on things and that is your choice, why anyone in Wales thinks we are better off as part of the UK when we don't get enough money from central Government to survive [hence EU handouts for parts of Wales], we have perpetual right wing Governments whether NuLabour or the Tories [which mean the rich get richer and the poor get poorer], a Royal Family in the 21st century, an unelected second chamber and in England a state religion.
We can do far better than that, regardless of what the state broadcaster and the London papers might say. [Post edited 18 Sep 2019 18:00]
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| Independence march merthyr on 18:59 - Sep 18 with 1079 views | johnlangy |
| Independence march merthyr on 21:06 - Sep 17 by Catullus |
This thing about Welsh taxes and big companies being registered in England so they go down as English. If we went indy, what makes anyone think those companies will register in Wales, esprcially if we join the EU?
Won't they (as many already do) register (for tax puposes) in low tax regimes like Luxembourg?
That is exactly the complaint people make about corporate tax, that they don't pay it in countries where they earn the profits.
I can't spek as to the politcal bias of this site https://www.taxjustice.net/2018/08/10/why-is-amazon-still-paying-little-tax-in-t but they carry a story that is synonymous with complaints around corporate tax in the UK.
So after Welsh indy, what would change? Why would Wales be better off if companies making large profits manage to pay their tax elsewhere? Wales meanwhile would still have lost the 15 billion from Westminster. |
What I said was that they are HQ'd in England and can, as allowed under Westminster rules, register all their UK VAT and Corp Tax at their HQ. And all the VAT and CT that Wales pays is lumped in with that and is recorded as English Tax. Because that's where it is recorded as having been paid.
If Wales was Independent then VAT and CT paid by us to whatever store/company in Wales would have to be separated off and paid to the Welsh Exchequer not the English one.
As you say, many companies do work around tax laws by registering in low tax regimes. But taking Tesco as an example, if they could have done that then they would have by now i'd imagine. After all they've been around a long time. Perhaps they don't (maybe can't) because if they were able to do it then perhaps everyone who shops there would shop at Asda/Sainsburys etc instead knowing those companies were paying their fair share. Just a guess. I haven't a clue to be honest.
And the £15 billion from Westminster is just part of the tax already paid by Welsh people. We've already pointed out that even on their measure the Welsh tax take is £25 billion even before you factor in the billions of VAT and CT referred to previously. | | | |
| Independence march merthyr on 19:27 - Sep 18 with 1075 views | ladyjack |
Leanne in trouble for defending a young collegue, WoL not mentioning Jaco's past or name I see. | | | |
| Independence march merthyr on 19:55 - Sep 18 with 1052 views | ladyjack |
I'm glad this is coming to a head, its sit back and open the popcorn time, two heavyweights who wont back down, I occasionally read jaco's blog and have seen what I thought was snipping after snipping against Plaid and Leanne and then eventually a reaction from the main lady herself [I did think straight away she should not have done it on a professional level, but on a non professional level I thought go get him girl], in their younger days could it have been billed as a right wing para military type v a left wing rebel activist type ? [Post edited 18 Sep 2019 19:56]
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| Independence march merthyr on 20:43 - Sep 18 with 1030 views | Lohengrin |
| Independence march merthyr on 19:55 - Sep 18 by ladyjack |
I'm glad this is coming to a head, its sit back and open the popcorn time, two heavyweights who wont back down, I occasionally read jaco's blog and have seen what I thought was snipping after snipping against Plaid and Leanne and then eventually a reaction from the main lady herself [I did think straight away she should not have done it on a professional level, but on a non professional level I thought go get him girl], in their younger days could it have been billed as a right wing para military type v a left wing rebel activist type ? [Post edited 18 Sep 2019 19:56]
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“Two heavyweights!”  |  |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Independence march merthyr on 20:46 - Sep 18 with 1024 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Independence march merthyr on 20:43 - Sep 18 by Lohengrin |
“Two heavyweights!” |
Tramps was a big fan of Jaco till recently. Used to link to his ramblings regularly on here as if he was some kind of sage not a tenapenny blogger. |  |
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| Independence march merthyr on 20:49 - Sep 18 with 1016 views | Lohengrin |
| Independence march merthyr on 20:46 - Sep 18 by exiledclaseboy |
Tramps was a big fan of Jaco till recently. Used to link to his ramblings regularly on here as if he was some kind of sage not a tenapenny blogger. |
I know. I told him when he first started doing it that Roy didn’t have both oars in the water but he was having none of it, was he?  | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Independence march merthyr on 20:53 - Sep 18 with 1006 views | ladyjack |
| Independence march merthyr on 20:46 - Sep 18 by exiledclaseboy |
Tramps was a big fan of Jaco till recently. Used to link to his ramblings regularly on here as if he was some kind of sage not a tenapenny blogger. |
Hardly the occasional Swansea or Swans related stuff, I told Lohengrin what I thought of him a while back. | | | |
| Independence march merthyr on 20:55 - Sep 18 with 1002 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| Independence march merthyr on 09:28 - Sep 18 by Ebo |
And well merited too, as you spouted utter rubbish without even reading about welsh independence.
If you want to express an opinion then please read up about the subject matter first. [Post edited 18 Sep 2019 11:12]
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Well you were the one trumping on about civilised debate. Just pointing out that statement is utter b*llocks. Likethe whole nationalist debate. | |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| Independence march merthyr on 20:57 - Sep 18 with 998 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Independence march merthyr on 20:49 - Sep 18 by Lohengrin |
I know. I told him when he first started doing it that Roy didn’t have both oars in the water but he was having none of it, was he? |
Hell hath no fury like a Leanne fanboy scorned. | |
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