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Pres. @realDonaldTrump’s reckless foreign policy mirrors his domestic. He even deserts our friends
We can't stay in the Middle East indefinitely, but abandoning the Kurds—who have fought shoulder to shoulder with our troops against ISIS—is morally wronghttps://t.co/p64PiKbH8x
Is America abandoning one of its allies ? on 15:01 - Oct 10 by ladyjack
I've always voted for what I think is best for the country and not just best for myself, but unfortunately due to people being full of self interest and being stupid and selfish they just vote for what's best for them and not what is best for society as a whole.
How’s the investment portfolio coming along, cymrawd?
An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it.
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Is America abandoning one of its allies ? on 15:11 - Oct 10 with 1922 views
Is America abandoning one of its allies ? on 14:58 - Oct 10 by Lohengrin
‘You’ singular or ‘You’ as a nation?
I’m not talking about Trump here I’m just fishing as to whether you recognise there is such a thing as a hierarchy of concern and responsibilities or not?
Either.
Of course there’s a hierarchy of concern and responsibility, everyone puts their family first followed by friends and loved ones and out in concentric circles.
But people with a notion of right and wrong (as this part of the conversation started), don’t do that to the detriment of others wherever possible.
There is no more honour in a ‘working man’ ignoring the hurt that someone like Trump causes to other groups because he thinks his family will benefit than there is in a non dom billionaire refusing to pay a fair share of tax to support people who can’t work, or a Tory minister voting against making rental properties habitable or voting to reduce disability benefits so that they pay less tax. It’s exactly the same thing. And yet, I sense you believe that putting oneself to the front and centre is acceptable for one of those groups more than it is for others. I don’t recognise a difference. I don’t extend that to a communist or Marxist philosophy btw - people are entitled to do what’s best for themselves and there is always a self centred trade off over economic matters in particular. But being prepared to accept a person, whether president or PM or boss for that matter, and actively supporting them, when you know they do harm to others, is unacceptable. And turning a blind eye is also unacceptable,
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Is America abandoning one of its allies ? on 15:25 - Oct 10 with 1910 views
Is America abandoning one of its allies ? on 15:04 - Oct 10 by Lohengrin
How’s the investment portfolio coming along, cymrawd?
In the far East the Nikkei went up overnight, England won group C which was an excellent investment what with the Typhoon coming and associated rumours, they only needing a draw anyway and the inconsistency of the French even if the match had gone ahead so that was a good earner. Swansea BS & Monmouth have keep their saving rates when the big boys have been cutting theirs so that's ok, still holding Welsh Gold and Welsh land and happy with the direction of those values, being selling off UK share based investments for months now what with Brexit coming up, that's gone ok because of the weakness of the pound tending to be good for stock market prices otherwise there would have been a big slump in prices. I will see what happens if a no deal Brexit becomes nailed on [in my mind], if I can then get what I think is a decent price I might invest on a united Ireland and secondly an independent Scotland depending on terms of course.
[Post edited 10 Oct 2019 15:51]
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Is America abandoning one of its allies ? on 15:34 - Oct 10 with 1899 views
Is America abandoning one of its allies ? on 15:11 - Oct 10 by londonlisa2001
Either.
Of course there’s a hierarchy of concern and responsibility, everyone puts their family first followed by friends and loved ones and out in concentric circles.
But people with a notion of right and wrong (as this part of the conversation started), don’t do that to the detriment of others wherever possible.
There is no more honour in a ‘working man’ ignoring the hurt that someone like Trump causes to other groups because he thinks his family will benefit than there is in a non dom billionaire refusing to pay a fair share of tax to support people who can’t work, or a Tory minister voting against making rental properties habitable or voting to reduce disability benefits so that they pay less tax. It’s exactly the same thing. And yet, I sense you believe that putting oneself to the front and centre is acceptable for one of those groups more than it is for others. I don’t recognise a difference. I don’t extend that to a communist or Marxist philosophy btw - people are entitled to do what’s best for themselves and there is always a self centred trade off over economic matters in particular. But being prepared to accept a person, whether president or PM or boss for that matter, and actively supporting them, when you know they do harm to others, is unacceptable. And turning a blind eye is also unacceptable,
Let me put it to you this way: I’ll be on the march in a couple of weeks in Newport in the (probably vain) attempt to save The Orb Works and retain production in Gwent. The demand for electrical steel hasn’t diminished but it can be produced cheaper elsewhere, more profit can be made to sate shareholder demand.
Do you think that I and the hundreds of others will be there because we are so spiteful that we know what a boon a new plant would be for the people of Kosice, or Presov, or wherever and are determined to deprive them? Or do you think we will be there because we know full-well the devastation closure will cause here?
An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it.
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Is America abandoning one of its allies ? on 18:46 - Oct 10 with 1808 views
Is America abandoning one of its allies ? on 15:34 - Oct 10 by Lohengrin
Let me put it to you this way: I’ll be on the march in a couple of weeks in Newport in the (probably vain) attempt to save The Orb Works and retain production in Gwent. The demand for electrical steel hasn’t diminished but it can be produced cheaper elsewhere, more profit can be made to sate shareholder demand.
Do you think that I and the hundreds of others will be there because we are so spiteful that we know what a boon a new plant would be for the people of Kosice, or Presov, or wherever and are determined to deprive them? Or do you think we will be there because we know full-well the devastation closure will cause here?
That’s not remotely what we are talking about though.
We are talking about voting for a person knowing that the person is a psychopath that hurts many other groups of people because we think he may introduce policies that will benefit us despite all evidence to the contrary. Or voting for a policy that will deeply harm others because it helps us.
As I said, we all make choices all the time based on what’s best for us or our families but being prepared to cause direct harm to others to further our own interests is not acceptable.
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Is America abandoning one of its allies ? on 19:21 - Oct 10 with 1793 views
Is America abandoning one of its allies ? on 18:46 - Oct 10 by londonlisa2001
That’s not remotely what we are talking about though.
We are talking about voting for a person knowing that the person is a psychopath that hurts many other groups of people because we think he may introduce policies that will benefit us despite all evidence to the contrary. Or voting for a policy that will deeply harm others because it helps us.
As I said, we all make choices all the time based on what’s best for us or our families but being prepared to cause direct harm to others to further our own interests is not acceptable.
I thought we’d moved on from Trump and it highlighted fairly succinctly in practice the point I’ve been trying put across, evidently without success it would seem.
That last sentence of yours: “ ...being prepared to cause direct harm to others to further our own interests is not acceptable.” Isn’t that precisely what happened in The Commons a few years back in the debate to bomb targets in Syria?
Right, sorry for a quick scribbled reply I’ve got to dash to the pub or I’m going to miss the kick off. I’ll try and expand later if it’s necessary.
Ta ra...
An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it.
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Is America abandoning one of its allies ? on 22:49 - Oct 10 with 1744 views
Is America abandoning one of its allies ? on 22:49 - Oct 10 by longlostjack
The way the Kurds have been treated is absolutely disgusting. They deserve better. Absolutely sickening.
They have been treated poorly since they were shafted by the “great powers” in The Treaty of Lausanne (1923). Left stateless, Kurdish majority areas were split into 4 other countries, trapping them as a minority in all.
This is just the latest disgrace in a long history of shameful betrayals and meddling in the Middle East. And some in the “western world” wonder why the UK/US/Europeans aren’t particularly popular in the region.
Amazing that a country elected this idiot into power, and will do so again in 2020. I say that, because these impeachment claims are doing absolutely nothing.
Israel strongly condemns the Turkish invasion of the Kurdish areas in Syria and warns against the ethnic cleansing of the Kurds by Turkey and its proxies. Israel is prepared to extend humanitarian assistance to the gallant Kurdish people.
— Benjamin Netanyahu - בנימין נתניהו (@netanyahu) October 10, 2019
An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it.
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Is America abandoning one of its allies ? on 23:01 - Oct 12 with 1499 views
Is America abandoning one of its allies ? on 22:53 - Oct 12 by Lohengrin
Israel strongly condemns the Turkish invasion of the Kurdish areas in Syria and warns against the ethnic cleansing of the Kurds by Turkey and its proxies. Israel is prepared to extend humanitarian assistance to the gallant Kurdish people.
— Benjamin Netanyahu - בנימין נתניהו (@netanyahu) October 10, 2019
That's the first and last time I ever applaud Netanyahu.
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan
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Is America abandoning one of its allies ? on 23:11 - Oct 12 with 1492 views
Is America abandoning one of its allies ? on 22:53 - Oct 12 by Lohengrin
Israel strongly condemns the Turkish invasion of the Kurdish areas in Syria and warns against the ethnic cleansing of the Kurds by Turkey and its proxies. Israel is prepared to extend humanitarian assistance to the gallant Kurdish people.
— Benjamin Netanyahu - בנימין נתניהו (@netanyahu) October 10, 2019
Can’t fault the message. He’s looking to get back into a coalition and avoid criminal charges probably. That statement might help. Put me down as cynical.
Is America abandoning one of its allies ? on 22:53 - Oct 12 by Lohengrin
Israel strongly condemns the Turkish invasion of the Kurdish areas in Syria and warns against the ethnic cleansing of the Kurds by Turkey and its proxies. Israel is prepared to extend humanitarian assistance to the gallant Kurdish people.
— Benjamin Netanyahu - בנימין נתניהו (@netanyahu) October 10, 2019
Netanyahu would never support ethnic cleansing. No siree Bob.
Is America abandoning one of its allies ? on 22:53 - Oct 12 by Lohengrin
Israel strongly condemns the Turkish invasion of the Kurdish areas in Syria and warns against the ethnic cleansing of the Kurds by Turkey and its proxies. Israel is prepared to extend humanitarian assistance to the gallant Kurdish people.
— Benjamin Netanyahu - בנימין נתניהו (@netanyahu) October 10, 2019
He wasn't that fussed when it happened in Afrin.
[Post edited 13 Oct 2019 1:45]
If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face--forever.
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Is America abandoning one of its allies ? on 01:23 - Oct 13 with 1438 views
Is America abandoning one of its allies ? on 18:46 - Oct 10 by londonlisa2001
That’s not remotely what we are talking about though.
We are talking about voting for a person knowing that the person is a psychopath that hurts many other groups of people because we think he may introduce policies that will benefit us despite all evidence to the contrary. Or voting for a policy that will deeply harm others because it helps us.
As I said, we all make choices all the time based on what’s best for us or our families but being prepared to cause direct harm to others to further our own interests is not acceptable.
That's a very disingenuous post, if I may say so. Why would bring up who those people voted for, without mentioning who they chose not to vote for?
I assume the groups of people you refer to being harmed are immigrants, gays and ethnic minorities.
What about the population of Libya? or the Afghans and Somalis? What about the residents of Flint, Michigan? What about the marijuana smokers rotting in jail.? What about the people suffering through the opioid crisis? Or the people being shot and harassed by the racist and increasingly militarised police forces? Or the poor in the forgotten towns and regions?
You seem to be assuming that Trump voters were thinking only of themselves, perhaps they were thinking of the people Obama shafted.
It's easy to see Trump as a monster, cos he very obviously is, but you shouldn't forget that Obama was a monster too, and so is HRC.
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Is America abandoning one of its allies ? on 09:10 - Oct 13 with 1347 views
Is America abandoning one of its allies ? on 01:23 - Oct 13 by dizietsma
That's a very disingenuous post, if I may say so. Why would bring up who those people voted for, without mentioning who they chose not to vote for?
I assume the groups of people you refer to being harmed are immigrants, gays and ethnic minorities.
What about the population of Libya? or the Afghans and Somalis? What about the residents of Flint, Michigan? What about the marijuana smokers rotting in jail.? What about the people suffering through the opioid crisis? Or the people being shot and harassed by the racist and increasingly militarised police forces? Or the poor in the forgotten towns and regions?
You seem to be assuming that Trump voters were thinking only of themselves, perhaps they were thinking of the people Obama shafted.
It's easy to see Trump as a monster, cos he very obviously is, but you shouldn't forget that Obama was a monster too, and so is HRC.
What’s the weather like in Montana, dude?
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Is America abandoning one of its allies ? on 18:31 - Oct 14 with 1242 views
Is America abandoning one of its allies ? on 01:23 - Oct 13 by dizietsma
That's a very disingenuous post, if I may say so. Why would bring up who those people voted for, without mentioning who they chose not to vote for?
I assume the groups of people you refer to being harmed are immigrants, gays and ethnic minorities.
What about the population of Libya? or the Afghans and Somalis? What about the residents of Flint, Michigan? What about the marijuana smokers rotting in jail.? What about the people suffering through the opioid crisis? Or the people being shot and harassed by the racist and increasingly militarised police forces? Or the poor in the forgotten towns and regions?
You seem to be assuming that Trump voters were thinking only of themselves, perhaps they were thinking of the people Obama shafted.
It's easy to see Trump as a monster, cos he very obviously is, but you shouldn't forget that Obama was a monster too, and so is HRC.
Transparent whataboutism and deflection. Tummer will he pleased.
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Is America abandoning one of its allies ? on 19:29 - Oct 14 with 1210 views
Is America abandoning one of its allies ? on 18:31 - Oct 14 by Ace_Jack
Transparent whataboutism and deflection. Tummer will he pleased.
I'm pleased that even someone who obviously despises Trump, like Dizietsma, at least opens his mind and looks at the full picture, unlike brainwashed sheep like you.
I'm also pleased that this latest insanely hyperbolic attack on the president is about to blow up in the faces of the terminally TDS infected horde.
Yesterday ABC News aired this dramatic lead about the "Slaughter in Syria":
One problem: the dramatic video showing "the fury of Turkish forces" isn't from Syria in 2019. It's from a show at a gun range in Knob Creek, Kentucky from 2016.
Wow! ABC News is trying to pass gun range videos as combat footage from Syria pic.twitter.com/zfTWtwwSfZ
Is America abandoning one of its allies ? on 18:31 - Oct 14 by Ace_Jack
Transparent whataboutism and deflection. Tummer will he pleased.
No whataboutery, sir, I was merely contesting Lias's claim that Trump voters were only thinking selfishly, and ignoring the plight of deserving people.
Wanting to end wars, lesson corruption and improve living standards is a noble aim.
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Is America abandoning one of its allies ? on 21:26 - Oct 14 with 1147 views
Is America abandoning one of its allies ? on 01:23 - Oct 13 by dizietsma
That's a very disingenuous post, if I may say so. Why would bring up who those people voted for, without mentioning who they chose not to vote for?
I assume the groups of people you refer to being harmed are immigrants, gays and ethnic minorities.
What about the population of Libya? or the Afghans and Somalis? What about the residents of Flint, Michigan? What about the marijuana smokers rotting in jail.? What about the people suffering through the opioid crisis? Or the people being shot and harassed by the racist and increasingly militarised police forces? Or the poor in the forgotten towns and regions?
You seem to be assuming that Trump voters were thinking only of themselves, perhaps they were thinking of the people Obama shafted.
It's easy to see Trump as a monster, cos he very obviously is, but you shouldn't forget that Obama was a monster too, and so is HRC.
I got pelters for suggesting that being a monster is a requirement for the job and there’s a long history of monster like behaviour from all involved.
The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Is America abandoning one of its allies ? on 19:29 - Oct 14 by Tummer_from_Texas
I'm pleased that even someone who obviously despises Trump, like Dizietsma, at least opens his mind and looks at the full picture, unlike brainwashed sheep like you.
I'm also pleased that this latest insanely hyperbolic attack on the president is about to blow up in the faces of the terminally TDS infected horde.
Yesterday ABC News aired this dramatic lead about the "Slaughter in Syria":
One problem: the dramatic video showing "the fury of Turkish forces" isn't from Syria in 2019. It's from a show at a gun range in Knob Creek, Kentucky from 2016.
Wow! ABC News is trying to pass gun range videos as combat footage from Syria pic.twitter.com/zfTWtwwSfZ
Note the way they carefully cropped out all the tourists in the foreground taking videos of the show with their cell phones. This was no accident.
1984 is literally happening.
"Look at this video from Syria! Look at what Trump caused!!!"
Uh, that video is 3 years old and it's from a show in Kentucky.
"WE JUST TOLD YOU, IT'S A VIDEO OF THE CARNAGE IN SYRIA! TRUMP DID THIS!!!"
Sure thing, Big Brother.
Wow. That’s a completely normal and totally not unhinged post at all. Nice to set yourself up with a straw man as well by the way. I mean, you’ve given up on engaging with reality so you might as well console yourself in attacking other fake news whilst distributing it.
“ABC got a report wrong so trumps abandoning of the Kurds for spurious political reasons is totally fine!” Nice try though.
There are many of us here in this thread and we come from a wide range of age, class, wealth, and political backgrounds. I can guarantee we get our information from a pretty varied spectrum of sources too. Despite all this, a varied sample of us have come together in brainwashed unison to condemn Trumps sickening betrayal of the Kurds because we are all of course brainwashed. Whereas you, an affluent, Trump supporting Texan, who gets the bulk of their news from Fox, are the true and virtuous uncorrupted soul in this situation? What are the chances of that? Maybe you could pray that we deregulate our impartiality laws so they can start spreading the fair and balanced truth like what happens on the only correct outlet of TV news that you’re so fond of. Maybe then we’d be able to see through the 1984 style propaganda like you Tum.
How could we not see through the bullsh*t and know in our hearts like you that Trump Is vindicated? I’m so sorry for doubting you, I can see the light now. Unfortunately they turned Fox News off in the UK after Soros and the illuminati shut it down by not making it commercially viable because people weren’t watching the ads. Please do tell us why Trump is absolutely right to do what he’s done. Apart from the obvious benefits to Turkey and Russia, how exactly does it benefit the USA, NATO allies, or the stateless Kurds, who have been fighting bravely against the scum of ISIS? They didn’t help out during WW2 so f**k em right?
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Is America abandoning one of its allies ? on 00:36 - Oct 15 with 1092 views
Is America abandoning one of its allies ? on 10:44 - Oct 10 by ladyjack
If we had proper independence, we could have threatened to send in the Welsh SBS. The sight of all those coracles in the Eastern Med would certainly make Turkey think twice.
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Is America abandoning one of its allies ? on 19:43 - Oct 17 with 972 views
Is America abandoning one of its allies ? on 00:36 - Oct 15 by Jack59
If we had proper independence, we could have threatened to send in the Welsh SBS. The sight of all those coracles in the Eastern Med would certainly make Turkey think twice.
If you put the Coracle and its regulars in the Eastern Med, the Turkish army would shit itself.
Is America abandoning one of its allies ? on 19:29 - Oct 14 by Tummer_from_Texas
I'm pleased that even someone who obviously despises Trump, like Dizietsma, at least opens his mind and looks at the full picture, unlike brainwashed sheep like you.
I'm also pleased that this latest insanely hyperbolic attack on the president is about to blow up in the faces of the terminally TDS infected horde.
Yesterday ABC News aired this dramatic lead about the "Slaughter in Syria":
One problem: the dramatic video showing "the fury of Turkish forces" isn't from Syria in 2019. It's from a show at a gun range in Knob Creek, Kentucky from 2016.
Wow! ABC News is trying to pass gun range videos as combat footage from Syria pic.twitter.com/zfTWtwwSfZ
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