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What about the police HOLMES computer system ? it was estimated that it would have taken hundreds of hours to copy and paste from HOLMES onto notepad [not procedure apparently as HOLMES cant be edited and notepad can] and then edit the information so it no longer mentioned Mandy and her family being threatened or the name of the person said to have done the threatening. What about the unidentified DNA on the murder weapon, Mandy's clothes and the spent matches ? What about the photo-fit and the same person picked out of videos ? What about the person who could not remember where he was for a few hours ?, what about the car log disappearing ?, what about not telling the big bosses about the mass murder ?
Apparently the wife said she was with her husband, the husband said he was with his wife and the twin brother couldn't remember were he was.
Why did the police behave like they did ?
Still waiting for any answers to these important questions? There was no DNA of Dai Morris at the scene but the DNA of an undetermined male. Hardly undisputed
Still waiting for any answers to these important questions? There was no DNA of Dai Morris at the scene but the DNA of an undetermined male. Hardly undisputed
[Post edited 14 Oct 2019 14:27]
Explained previously (LCN) low copy unreliability, inability to get conclusive-conviction LCN test findings along with extremely high risk of INNOCENT direct contact DNA cross-transference from multi-handled objects and surface area(s).
On zero Morris DNA found at the scene? Fires destroying DNA, improvised wearing of socks as gloves, cross contamination/composite of bath water and victims blood, cross contamination of chain with victims blood, covering of surface area's with residual fire carbon soot, possible basic wiping of (ever watched a detective series when the gun is wiped?) door handles, light switches etc. Incriminating DNA is not always found at a crime scene e.g. Jill Dando murder case!
A lot of extremely simple and extremely crude methods learned either by watching TV or from hearsay within the university of crime i.e. U.K prison system.
Morris didn't turn up in an astronaut suit carrying Cellmark and Eurofins kit!
Explained previously (LCN) low copy unreliability, inability to get conclusive-conviction LCN test findings along with extremely high risk of INNOCENT direct contact DNA cross-transference from multi-handled objects and surface area(s).
On zero Morris DNA found at the scene? Fires destroying DNA, improvised wearing of socks as gloves, cross contamination/composite of bath water and victims blood, cross contamination of chain with victims blood, covering of surface area's with residual fire carbon soot, possible basic wiping of (ever watched a detective series when the gun is wiped?) door handles, light switches etc. Incriminating DNA is not always found at a crime scene e.g. Jill Dando murder case!
A lot of extremely simple and extremely crude methods learned either by watching TV or from hearsay within the university of crime i.e. U.K prison system.
Morris didn't turn up in an astronaut suit carrying Cellmark and Eurofins kit!
So there's actually no point cleaning up a murder scene if you decide to do one, just simply wear a pair of socks on your hands and make sure you smother anything you came into contact with with someone else's blood?
Explained previously (LCN) low copy unreliability, inability to get conclusive-conviction LCN test findings along with extremely high risk of INNOCENT direct contact DNA cross-transference from multi-handled objects and surface area(s).
On zero Morris DNA found at the scene? Fires destroying DNA, improvised wearing of socks as gloves, cross contamination/composite of bath water and victims blood, cross contamination of chain with victims blood, covering of surface area's with residual fire carbon soot, possible basic wiping of (ever watched a detective series when the gun is wiped?) door handles, light switches etc. Incriminating DNA is not always found at a crime scene e.g. Jill Dando murder case!
A lot of extremely simple and extremely crude methods learned either by watching TV or from hearsay within the university of crime i.e. U.K prison system.
Morris didn't turn up in an astronaut suit carrying Cellmark and Eurofins kit!
Wasnt the prosecutor's case that he was drunk and high on drugs? Yet this is the guy who at the same time went on a murderous rampage, strategically set fires around the house,used methods to avoid detection, worn socks as gloves. I dont know what planet you are on to think its 100% conclusive. If your going to start naming other cases then i can name hundreds of cases (20 by the south Wales police!!) Whereby the wrong people were put in jail
So there's actually no point cleaning up a murder scene if you decide to do one, just simply wear a pair of socks on your hands and make sure you smother anything you came into contact with with someone else's blood?
That’s usually what I do when I’m out doing a bit of the old murdering.
The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
A BBC Panorama 'fail' that had to pay damages for defamation..... One of just a few occasions BBC Panorama has had to pay out damages over the years.
Not conclusive enough for the trial that followed shortly after. Not conclusive enough for the jury that was given the full informed facts, not conclusive enough for FOUR failed CCRC appeals. And certainly conclusive enough when a defamation case was won by the very detective it mentioned.
You see the detective was not psychic i.e. everything he wrote down was proven to be true by following investigation thereafter!
I don’t think anyone can deny there have been some serious errors with SWP investigations in the past, the Cardiff 3 being one example.
In terms of DNA, it’s something that can easily be discarded and we are all probably leaving traces wherever we go and whenever we do something, it’s easy to say unidentified DNA but in reality it may not actually mean a great deal.
I have no dea as to what happened at the Clydach murders, but if the victims blood was on the suspects chain that has to get one thinking.
I think policing has come a long way since the miscarriages of justices of the 70s and 80s.
Wasnt the prosecutor's case that he was drunk and high on drugs? Yet this is the guy who at the same time went on a murderous rampage, strategically set fires around the house,used methods to avoid detection, worn socks as gloves. I dont know what planet you are on to think its 100% conclusive. If your going to start naming other cases then i can name hundreds of cases (20 by the south Wales police!!) Whereby the wrong people were put in jail
And not just by accident either. SWP have a long track record by all accounts. Fitting people up.
So Dai Morris was having an affair with Mandy Power, he was supposed to have been there the day before (I assume to have sex), if that was the case and the cops were the killers, how would they have known where Morris had been and surely some of Morris; DNA would have been there legitimately from the day before?
Morris' claim to have left the chain when he had sex was only made days before the trial when the prosecution produced their evidence to the defence that the chain there had paint on the chain matched the paint in his house. Prior to that he had completely denied it was his chain. He had his relative purchase a similar. The relative denied he had bought the chain for Morris. It was only when he admitted this to an off duty policeman that he changed his story and admitted he had bought it for Morris. 2 juries heard all this evidence. 23 accepted the prosecution evidence and none believed Morris' version. At his second trial he was represented by one of the leading defence lawyers Michael Mansfield who had got many miscarriages of justice reversed including the Guildford four.
No payouts for the actual coppers who are implicated though
But a public apology!
Quote from above link:
"But it later emerged Morris told a relative he had been at the house at the time of the murders.
He had threatened to kill her hours before the killings and denied a blood covered chain found at the scene was his. But he later had to change his story when forensic evidence linked it to him.
At the trial, prosecutor Patrick Harrington QC made a public apology to the Lewis's, now divorced, claiming "the false finger of suspicion" had been pointed at them."
The planes that crashed into the twin towers were piloted by CIA operatives who put the plane into auto pilot before parachuting to safety.
The other tower was blown up by explosives that were planted deep inside the structure of the building, a joint exercise between the CIA and the FBI, the insurance pay out was massive, and shared equally between the 50,000 personal that took part in the huge deception, although there are rumors(none confirmed) that David Blaine was the brains behind the whole project.
Bin Laden was furious that they never gave him a cut of the insurance money, so he threatened to expose the whole thing, so they bumped him off.
The planes that crashed into the twin towers were piloted by CIA operatives who put the plane into auto pilot before parachuting to safety.
The other tower was blown up by explosives that were planted deep inside the structure of the building, a joint exercise between the CIA and the FBI, the insurance pay out was massive, and shared equally between the 50,000 personal that took part in the huge deception, although there are rumors(none confirmed) that David Blaine was the brains behind the whole project.
Bin Laden was furious that they never gave him a cut of the insurance money, so he threatened to expose the whole thing, so they bumped him off.
I’m glad you mentioned David Blaine. I often wonder how every single person amongst the thousands required to participate in the most overambitious and biggest conspiracy the world has ever seen? How they've ALL kept silence for nearly twenty years?
I do wonder if Mr David Blaine has used stage hypnotism and mesmerism to achieve the absolute impossibility by shutting every single person up? After all its not often someone is called into the office and asked to help kill nearly three thousand and injure six thousand of fellow countrymen by means of attacking historical landmark buildings.
I’m glad you mentioned David Blaine. I often wonder how every single person amongst the thousands required to participate in the most overambitious and biggest conspiracy the world has ever seen? How they've ALL kept silence for nearly twenty years?
I do wonder if Mr David Blaine has used stage hypnotism and mesmerism to achieve the absolute impossibility by shutting every single person up? After all its not often someone is called into the office and asked to help kill nearly three thousand and injure six thousand of fellow countrymen by means of attacking historical landmark buildings.
When you get down to it people desperately want the Police to be guilty, to the point where they're prepared to swallow any old bollocks that even hints at a massive conspiracy where dozens of Police officers and prosecutors are happy to pin the murder of children on a harmless dupe in order to protect their own.
Simple facts like Morris having a long track record of violence against men and women including the use of blunt objects as bludgeons, had threatened to kill Mandy Power that night, admitted being there at the time of the murders, and tried to lie about a personal possession that he left there are conveniently brushed aside.
Utterly mental.
Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back.
When you get down to it people desperately want the Police to be guilty, to the point where they're prepared to swallow any old bollocks that even hints at a massive conspiracy where dozens of Police officers and prosecutors are happy to pin the murder of children on a harmless dupe in order to protect their own.
Simple facts like Morris having a long track record of violence against men and women including the use of blunt objects as bludgeons, had threatened to kill Mandy Power that night, admitted being there at the time of the murders, and tried to lie about a personal possession that he left there are conveniently brushed aside.
Utterly mental.
You're wasting your breath mate, the conspiritists keep coming out with all this shyte after reading a half factual book, and then make comments with no thought for the feelings of the poor relatives left behind that are desperately trying to bring their lives back to some sort of normality.
The family are trying to get on with their lives... FFS let it go.
When you get down to it people desperately want the Police to be guilty, to the point where they're prepared to swallow any old bollocks that even hints at a massive conspiracy where dozens of Police officers and prosecutors are happy to pin the murder of children on a harmless dupe in order to protect their own.
Simple facts like Morris having a long track record of violence against men and women including the use of blunt objects as bludgeons, had threatened to kill Mandy Power that night, admitted being there at the time of the murders, and tried to lie about a personal possession that he left there are conveniently brushed aside.
Utterly mental.
Sadly these sick minded individuals who peddle lies, believe disproved lies and blatantly deny absolute fact and reality are not unique.
The inhumanity to show absolutely no concern or empathy for the grieving process and psychological trauma of others is truly staggering.
When you get down to it people desperately want the Police to be guilty, to the point where they're prepared to swallow any old bollocks that even hints at a massive conspiracy where dozens of Police officers and prosecutors are happy to pin the murder of children on a harmless dupe in order to protect their own.
Simple facts like Morris having a long track record of violence against men and women including the use of blunt objects as bludgeons, had threatened to kill Mandy Power that night, admitted being there at the time of the murders, and tried to lie about a personal possession that he left there are conveniently brushed aside.
Utterly mental.
First off, I'm no conspiracy believing loon. Quite the opposite. The copious amounts of evidence against Morris is damning and I have no problem in believing he was guilty.
However, I don't think anyone can deny that many of the actions taken by the police are troubling in the extreme, which will always lead some to have doubts.
People who believe Morris to be guilty do a very good job in convincing the rest of us of his guilt, by pointing out that two courts have found him guilty, describing the evidence etc. They never try to explain the discrepancies in the police casethough, suspicious actions on the night and on following days etc. For instance, you mention that Morris had threatened to kill Mandy Power, which is fine. Stephen Lewis had also threatened Mandy and her children, something he at first lied about, then later admitted but said it was just a joke. Facts that were left out when an unknown police officer copied the notes from the HOLMES system.
Anyway, like I said, I have no problem believing in Morris' guilt. but I'd like some of those who are fervently pushing it, like yourself and Wingy, to explain the extremely questionable actions of the police, especially the Lewis family.
I am certainly not trying to defend the police. One of the problems in this case was the local CID boys were not involved in the case. Boys who were brought up in Clydach or in one case was married to the local Café owners daughter could have been incredibly useful as locals were far more likely to open up to them than coppers brought in from elsewhere. As far as the Lewis family is concerned I know neighbours of them in Pontardawe who spoke very highly of them. A friend's wife actually played netball with Alison Lewis at the time and spoke highly of her. One of my works colleagues was circuit training with the Inspector the night before he was picked up. Again described him as a decent quiet bloke. When asking about Inspector Lewis' actions ask yourself what would you have done. You get called to a fire that has destroyed a house and at the time it was believed a family had died in a tragic fire. You realise that the family killed is closely linked to your brother. Would you have followed police instructions or possibly travelled 3 miles to inform your brother and his family. It is highly likely that is the action he took but wont explain that. If that is the action he took then I for one dont blame him. I think many of us ending up in the same position would also have taken that action. We are all humans and part of the problem with the police is they dont always appear to be humans first and police after.
The bottom line is that whether Inspector Lewis stayed or left the scene had no impact on the murder. That had already been committed and Lewis didnt enter enter the property until after the fire brigade had extinguished the fire. It was then the truth emerged and he called in the serous crime squad to deal with the suspected murders
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