| Clydach Murders on 09:21 - Oct 17 with 3106 views | Highjack |
| Clydach Murders on 20:56 - Oct 16 by Dr_Winston |
When you get down to it people desperately want the Police to be guilty, to the point where they're prepared to swallow any old bollocks that even hints at a massive conspiracy where dozens of Police officers and prosecutors are happy to pin the murder of children on a harmless dupe in order to protect their own.
Simple facts like Morris having a long track record of violence against men and women including the use of blunt objects as bludgeons, had threatened to kill Mandy Power that night, admitted being there at the time of the murders, and tried to lie about a personal possession that he left there are conveniently brushed aside.
Utterly mental. |
Yes but apart from the death threats, the motive, the history of violence, the dna and his presence at the crime scene at the time the crime was committed what evidence do they actually have? |  |
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| Clydach Murders on 09:34 - Oct 17 with 3087 views | Glastonbury |
| Clydach Murders on 22:52 - Oct 16 by Humpty |
First off, I'm no conspiracy believing loon. Quite the opposite. The copious amounts of evidence against Morris is damning and I have no problem in believing he was guilty.
However, I don't think anyone can deny that many of the actions taken by the police are troubling in the extreme, which will always lead some to have doubts.
People who believe Morris to be guilty do a very good job in convincing the rest of us of his guilt, by pointing out that two courts have found him guilty, describing the evidence etc. They never try to explain the discrepancies in the police casethough, suspicious actions on the night and on following days etc. For instance, you mention that Morris had threatened to kill Mandy Power, which is fine. Stephen Lewis had also threatened Mandy and her children, something he at first lied about, then later admitted but said it was just a joke. Facts that were left out when an unknown police officer copied the notes from the HOLMES system.
Anyway, like I said, I have no problem believing in Morris' guilt. but I'd like some of those who are fervently pushing it, like yourself and Wingy, to explain the extremely questionable actions of the police, especially the Lewis family. |
Making a murder Steven avery also had 2 juries etc etc he is clearly innocent as will be proved in next few months. I personally think Morris is Not guilty why would the family campaign for his freedom if they thought he was guilty u would disown someone who did that surely. |  | | |
| Clydach Murders on 09:50 - Oct 17 with 3070 views | Joe_bradshaw |
| Clydach Murders on 09:34 - Oct 17 by Glastonbury |
Making a murder Steven avery also had 2 juries etc etc he is clearly innocent as will be proved in next few months. I personally think Morris is Not guilty why would the family campaign for his freedom if they thought he was guilty u would disown someone who did that surely. |
Prisons everywhere are full of people whose families think they are angels. |  |
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| Clydach Murders on 10:46 - Oct 17 with 3023 views | Wingstandwood |
| Clydach Murders on 09:50 - Oct 17 by Joe_bradshaw |
Prisons everywhere are full of people whose families think they are angels. |
You seriously (shown on this very thread) come across people who deny ALL fact, ALL damning evidence, ALL reason, ALL common sense and ALL damning verdicts and stark reality itself.
That is why some think serial killer (conspiracy apparently) Ted Bundy is innocent and why some send fan mail to the likes of The Yorkshire Ripper. The Yorkshire Ripper was receiving letter sack after letter sack courtesy of preposterously dimwitted buffoons. |  |
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| Clydach Murders on 18:38 - Oct 17 with 2887 views | Dr_Winston |
| Clydach Murders on 22:52 - Oct 16 by Humpty |
First off, I'm no conspiracy believing loon. Quite the opposite. The copious amounts of evidence against Morris is damning and I have no problem in believing he was guilty.
However, I don't think anyone can deny that many of the actions taken by the police are troubling in the extreme, which will always lead some to have doubts.
People who believe Morris to be guilty do a very good job in convincing the rest of us of his guilt, by pointing out that two courts have found him guilty, describing the evidence etc. They never try to explain the discrepancies in the police casethough, suspicious actions on the night and on following days etc. For instance, you mention that Morris had threatened to kill Mandy Power, which is fine. Stephen Lewis had also threatened Mandy and her children, something he at first lied about, then later admitted but said it was just a joke. Facts that were left out when an unknown police officer copied the notes from the HOLMES system.
Anyway, like I said, I have no problem believing in Morris' guilt. but I'd like some of those who are fervently pushing it, like yourself and Wingy, to explain the extremely questionable actions of the police, especially the Lewis family. |
I have no problem admitting that the actions of the Lewis brothers do bear questioning.
Personally I suspect that one thought something was up and tried to cover up for the other without realising he hadn't actually done it. I wouldn't bet against some of the "forensic cleaning up" much trumpeted about being done by someone other than Morris, which would also account for the e-fit of someone looking like them being spotted nearby. Worthy of a conviction itself perhaps.
What I do have a problem with is the idea that many serving officers would have deliberately fitted someone else up in order to protect their own. I don't know a single plod (and I know plenty) who wouldn't open the trapdoor on anyone if they thought that they'd murdered children, even another Police officer. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Clydach Murders on 19:04 - Oct 17 with 2859 views | sainthelens |
| Clydach Murders on 18:38 - Oct 17 by Dr_Winston |
I have no problem admitting that the actions of the Lewis brothers do bear questioning.
Personally I suspect that one thought something was up and tried to cover up for the other without realising he hadn't actually done it. I wouldn't bet against some of the "forensic cleaning up" much trumpeted about being done by someone other than Morris, which would also account for the e-fit of someone looking like them being spotted nearby. Worthy of a conviction itself perhaps.
What I do have a problem with is the idea that many serving officers would have deliberately fitted someone else up in order to protect their own. I don't know a single plod (and I know plenty) who wouldn't open the trapdoor on anyone if they thought that they'd murdered children, even another Police officer. |
Do any of us actually know how deep corruption goes. And who's got what on who ? |  | | |
| Clydach Murders on 19:09 - Oct 17 with 2857 views | lifelong |
| Clydach Murders on 18:38 - Oct 17 by Dr_Winston |
I have no problem admitting that the actions of the Lewis brothers do bear questioning.
Personally I suspect that one thought something was up and tried to cover up for the other without realising he hadn't actually done it. I wouldn't bet against some of the "forensic cleaning up" much trumpeted about being done by someone other than Morris, which would also account for the e-fit of someone looking like them being spotted nearby. Worthy of a conviction itself perhaps.
What I do have a problem with is the idea that many serving officers would have deliberately fitted someone else up in order to protect their own. I don't know a single plod (and I know plenty) who wouldn't open the trapdoor on anyone if they thought that they'd murdered children, even another Police officer. |
I agree.
There have been a number of high profile cases over the years where serving Police Officers have been charged and put before the courts. |  | | |
| Clydach Murders on 20:31 - Oct 17 with 2807 views | jackrmee |
| Clydach Murders on 18:38 - Oct 17 by Dr_Winston |
I have no problem admitting that the actions of the Lewis brothers do bear questioning.
Personally I suspect that one thought something was up and tried to cover up for the other without realising he hadn't actually done it. I wouldn't bet against some of the "forensic cleaning up" much trumpeted about being done by someone other than Morris, which would also account for the e-fit of someone looking like them being spotted nearby. Worthy of a conviction itself perhaps.
What I do have a problem with is the idea that many serving officers would have deliberately fitted someone else up in order to protect their own. I don't know a single plod (and I know plenty) who wouldn't open the trapdoor on anyone if they thought that they'd murdered children, even another Police officer. |
It wouldn't have had to be plod protecting their own though. Not even the case that any of them knew that one of their colleagues did do it.
Could have been that they knew they had to get a conviction and knew they would get brownie points, saw Morris as easy meat and did all they could to make that happen. Boxes ticked, case closed.
Doesn't have to be a massive conspiracy, just nasty Police work. |  |
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| Clydach Murders on 20:34 - Oct 17 with 2803 views | sainthelens |
| Clydach Murders on 20:31 - Oct 17 by jackrmee |
It wouldn't have had to be plod protecting their own though. Not even the case that any of them knew that one of their colleagues did do it.
Could have been that they knew they had to get a conviction and knew they would get brownie points, saw Morris as easy meat and did all they could to make that happen. Boxes ticked, case closed.
Doesn't have to be a massive conspiracy, just nasty Police work. |
On the back of the Darvell brothers, wouldn't look good. | | | |
| Clydach Murders on 21:01 - Oct 17 with 2776 views | lifelong |
| Clydach Murders on 20:34 - Oct 17 by sainthelens |
On the back of the Darvell brothers, wouldn't look good. |
Three Police Officers were charged,regarding that case, and were sent for trial at Chester Crown Court.
So much for plod looking after their own. | | | |
| Clydach Murders on 21:12 - Oct 17 with 2759 views | Neath_Jack |
| Clydach Murders on 21:01 - Oct 17 by lifelong |
Three Police Officers were charged,regarding that case, and were sent for trial at Chester Crown Court.
So much for plod looking after their own. |
Aren't South Wales police the most corrupt in the UK? Sure there was a tv show on about that not so long ago.
They may not look after their own nationally, but they do at a local level. It's when another force investigates them that they shite hits the fan. |  |
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| Clydach Murders on 21:33 - Oct 17 with 2725 views | bonymine |
| Clydach Murders on 21:12 - Oct 17 by Neath_Jack |
Aren't South Wales police the most corrupt in the UK? Sure there was a tv show on about that not so long ago.
They may not look after their own nationally, but they do at a local level. It's when another force investigates them that they shite hits the fan. |
I knew of the Darvels from the early 80s when they wandered around the Sandfields streets and I bumped into them they were harmless enough !! .....quite simply they were ‘easy targets’ for an arrest to ‘solve’ the Sex Shop Murder of Sandra Phillips ....
SW Police are Scumbags IMHO they’ve had me for wrongful arrest since then as well in Swansea Central for 22 hours in custody then released me without charge .....what a waste of Police time that was !! |  |
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| Clydach Murders on 22:24 - Oct 17 with 2678 views | lifelong |
| Clydach Murders on 21:12 - Oct 17 by Neath_Jack |
Aren't South Wales police the most corrupt in the UK? Sure there was a tv show on about that not so long ago.
They may not look after their own nationally, but they do at a local level. It's when another force investigates them that they shite hits the fan. |
South Wales Police, as do other forces, have their own internal investigation departments, it is staffed by South Wales Officers and they investigate complaints by the public. Over the years dozens of officers have faced disciplinary and criminal charges due to the work of that department.
External forces are called in for the more serious of investigations, as they are with other forces. | | | |
| Clydach Murders on 23:19 - Oct 17 with 2648 views | Humpty |
| Clydach Murders on 18:38 - Oct 17 by Dr_Winston |
I have no problem admitting that the actions of the Lewis brothers do bear questioning.
Personally I suspect that one thought something was up and tried to cover up for the other without realising he hadn't actually done it. I wouldn't bet against some of the "forensic cleaning up" much trumpeted about being done by someone other than Morris, which would also account for the e-fit of someone looking like them being spotted nearby. Worthy of a conviction itself perhaps.
What I do have a problem with is the idea that many serving officers would have deliberately fitted someone else up in order to protect their own. I don't know a single plod (and I know plenty) who wouldn't open the trapdoor on anyone if they thought that they'd murdered children, even another Police officer. |
I'm sure you're right. I certainly hope so anyway.
I was going to mention the Darvells, seems others beat me to it. The police actually destroyed evidence in that case which proved the brothers innocence, leading two life sentences. Police officers are capable of appalling acts on times. |  | | |
| Clydach Murders on 23:20 - Oct 17 with 2647 views | Humpty |
| Clydach Murders on 08:47 - Oct 17 by exhmrc1 |
I am certainly not trying to defend the police. One of the problems in this case was the local CID boys were not involved in the case. Boys who were brought up in Clydach or in one case was married to the local Café owners daughter could have been incredibly useful as locals were far more likely to open up to them than coppers brought in from elsewhere.
As far as the Lewis family is concerned I know neighbours of them in Pontardawe who spoke very highly of them. A friend's wife actually played netball with Alison Lewis at the time and spoke highly of her. One of my works colleagues was circuit training with the Inspector the night before he was picked up. Again described him as a decent quiet bloke.
When asking about Inspector Lewis' actions ask yourself what would you have done. You get called to a fire that has destroyed a house and at the time it was believed a family had died in a tragic fire. You realise that the family killed is closely linked to your brother. Would you have followed police instructions or possibly travelled 3 miles to inform your brother and his family. It is highly likely that is the action he took but wont explain that. If that is the action he took then I for one dont blame him. I think many of us ending up in the same position would also have taken that action. We are all humans and part of the problem with the police is they dont always appear to be humans first and police after.
The bottom line is that whether Inspector Lewis stayed or left the scene had no impact on the murder. That had already been committed and Lewis didnt enter enter the property until after the fire brigade had extinguished the fire. It was then the truth emerged and he called in the serous crime squad to deal with the suspected murders |
I have no problem with police behaving like humans. I have massive problems with them lying in a case like this, no matter what their reasons. | | | |
| Clydach Murders on 23:25 - Oct 17 with 2630 views | jackrmee |
| Clydach Murders on 22:24 - Oct 17 by lifelong |
South Wales Police, as do other forces, have their own internal investigation departments, it is staffed by South Wales Officers and they investigate complaints by the public. Over the years dozens of officers have faced disciplinary and criminal charges due to the work of that department.
External forces are called in for the more serious of investigations, as they are with other forces. |
There;s also the IPCC, but they are all there to tick boxes, AKA "we've done investigations into the public's complaint".
I'd like to see figures on how many investigations by IPCC, or SW Officers actually find against the Police. A very small percentage I'm sure. | |
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| Clydach Murders on 00:24 - Oct 18 with 2588 views | controversial_jack |
It's not the job of the police to prove innocence, but guilt. | | | |
| Clydach Murders on 08:19 - Oct 18 with 2518 views | exhmrc1 |
We dont know for sure where Inspector Lewis went but that is my suspicion and wherever he did go wouldnt have mattered. By the time he was called to the scene the Fire Brigade were there and the murders had taken place. His behaviour had no bearing on what had happened. The problem is people try to blame the police for the murder but the people who have heard all the evidence unanimously twice have found Morris guilty. The police questioned the Lewis family for perverting the course of justice and sent their evidence off to the Crown Prosecution Service who found there was insufficient evidence to make a successful prosecution. By the way the CPS had no axe to grind either way. The Police certainly made mistakes. Not involving officers with local knowledge didnt help and neither did informing the press the Lewis family had been arrested when they simply didnt have sufficient evidence which they have since apologised for. | | | |
| Clydach Murders on 13:40 - Oct 18 with 2436 views | Joe_bradshaw |
| Clydach Murders on 00:24 - Oct 18 by controversial_jack |
It's not the job of the police to prove innocence, but guilt. |
That's the job of the prosecution. it's the job of the police to provide the evidence which will lead to a guilty verdict if the CPS deem it likely to do so and if the prosecution use it to build a case beyond reasonable doubt. | |
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| Clydach Murders on 13:55 - Oct 18 with 2416 views | controversial_jack |
| Clydach Murders on 13:40 - Oct 18 by Joe_bradshaw |
That's the job of the prosecution. it's the job of the police to provide the evidence which will lead to a guilty verdict if the CPS deem it likely to do so and if the prosecution use it to build a case beyond reasonable doubt. |
The police make the determination that you are guilty when they arrest you.They don't arrest you if they think you are innocent.Whether there is enough evidence to prosecute is as you say down to the CPS | | | |
| Clydach Murders on 21:26 - Oct 19 with 2292 views | Pacemaker |
| Clydach Murders on 13:55 - Oct 18 by controversial_jack |
The police make the determination that you are guilty when they arrest you.They don't arrest you if they think you are innocent.Whether there is enough evidence to prosecute is as you say down to the CPS |
You are so anti police that you truly believe that don’t you?
Most people who are arrested are as a result of a complaint from a member of the public. The information that the police act on is again from other members of the public, forensic evidence, financial evidence or other technical sources.
Being arrested is nothing to do with guilt it is purely suspicion of you having committed an offence, your personal experiences are obviously colouring your ability to understand that.
The police collect evidence and submit that evidence to the CPS, the CPS then make a decision using their code of practice and decide if there is a realistic chance of conviction and that it is in the public interest to proceed.
Their guilt is decided by a panel of magistrates or by a jury at the Crown Court, are all these people filling the court reports in the SWEP all innocent and tucked up by the police?
How do you explain the father sentenced to a long term of imprisonment this week for raping his children and fathering a number of children? Where do you think that evidence came from and who were the witnesses?
There are so many checks and balances on every individual arrest and case file that I am amazed that anyone actually gets to court these days.
Keep kicking the Police and CPS and at some stage you will end up with the justice system you deserve. Plenty of jobs being advertised for police and lawyers at the moment if you think you can do better apply and do it yourself.
Local justice needs local people. |  |
| Life is an adventure or nothing at all. |
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| Clydach Murders on 23:23 - Oct 19 with 2231 views | controversial_jack |
| Clydach Murders on 21:26 - Oct 19 by Pacemaker |
You are so anti police that you truly believe that don’t you?
Most people who are arrested are as a result of a complaint from a member of the public. The information that the police act on is again from other members of the public, forensic evidence, financial evidence or other technical sources.
Being arrested is nothing to do with guilt it is purely suspicion of you having committed an offence, your personal experiences are obviously colouring your ability to understand that.
The police collect evidence and submit that evidence to the CPS, the CPS then make a decision using their code of practice and decide if there is a realistic chance of conviction and that it is in the public interest to proceed.
Their guilt is decided by a panel of magistrates or by a jury at the Crown Court, are all these people filling the court reports in the SWEP all innocent and tucked up by the police?
How do you explain the father sentenced to a long term of imprisonment this week for raping his children and fathering a number of children? Where do you think that evidence came from and who were the witnesses?
There are so many checks and balances on every individual arrest and case file that I am amazed that anyone actually gets to court these days.
Keep kicking the Police and CPS and at some stage you will end up with the justice system you deserve. Plenty of jobs being advertised for police and lawyers at the moment if you think you can do better apply and do it yourself.
Local justice needs local people. |
Try talking yourself out of an arrest. It won't happen | | | |
| Clydach Murders on 12:37 - Oct 20 with 2163 views | Pacemaker |
| Clydach Murders on 23:23 - Oct 19 by controversial_jack |
Try talking yourself out of an arrest. It won't happen |
There are plenty of innocent people arrested as a result of false complaints, mistaken identify, forensic evidence being found but a reasonable explanation is given and are subsequently released no further action.
Sometimes just being in the wrong place at the wrong time for some people, so you want talk yourself out of arrest but you will talk yourself out of a charge or conviction. | |
| Life is an adventure or nothing at all. |
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| Clydach Murders on 13:19 - Oct 20 with 2151 views | theloneranger |
| Clydach Murders on 13:55 - Oct 18 by controversial_jack |
The police make the determination that you are guilty when they arrest you.They don't arrest you if they think you are innocent.Whether there is enough evidence to prosecute is as you say down to the CPS |
"To arrest you the police need reasonable grounds to suspect you’re involved in a crime for which your arrest is necessary." |  |
| Everyday above ground ... Is a good day! 😎 |
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| Clydach Murders on 16:52 - Oct 20 with 2098 views | controversial_jack |
| Clydach Murders on 13:19 - Oct 20 by theloneranger |
"To arrest you the police need reasonable grounds to suspect you’re involved in a crime for which your arrest is necessary." |
The point being, the police will only arrest you if they believe you have commited an offence.They will then do everything they can to convict you , even lying to get a confession which they are legally entitled to do.
They will not help you in anyway to prove your innocence, and anything you say to them will not help you in anyway as any decent lawyer will tell you. whether you are charged is down to the CPs and any conviction by the courts.
It's not being anti police, even though I believe them to be generally useless and incompetent most of the time, it's how out adversarial legal system works. Other countries do it differently and others have the same system as we do | | | |
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